PeterH

That's a lot of questions tied to one subject eh. Starting off there are several scriptures that say the "iniquity" of the father will be visited even up to the forth generations of his family. Exodus 20:5 Exodus 34:6-7 Deuteronomy 5:9 There is also scripture that states that fathers are not to be punished for their sons sins and vise-versa. Deuteronomy 24:16 Ezekiel 18:20 The first set of scriptures I believe are talking about the judgement of God and the second are the laws of men (what men should abide by given from God). So is the judgement of God passed down? Yes. Sin is passed down from the father to their sons and daughters hence we are all guilty and only Jesus could ever be found not guilty of sin. Why the father and not the mother? Well I believe it's biblical that the fathers of a house are the spiritual leaders of that house. And as such if they sin then the lead their house into sin. Mother's are not the leaders, if there is a father present, no matter how much they strive to be because of the curse God placed on Eve found in Genesis 3:16 that she passed down. As for an exact sin. I don't really think that matters or applies because the wages of any sin is death. There is no punishment for a sin that's worse than another. The good news (Gospel) is that the son of God came to us, Jesus, and made a way for us to be born again. Born again so now our father is the heavenly Father, God, so our old selves are dead and we live a new life as sons and daughters of God our Father. And since our Father now has no sin in him we are found blameless. That is the redeeming work Jesus did for us. That is why Jesus is worthy of all honor, praise and worship.

Jesus is coming Soon! Our redemption is near! Be ready! 1 Thessalonians 4:9-18 9 Now as to the love of the brethren, you have no need for anyone to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another; 10 for indeed you do practice it toward all the brethren who are in all Macedonia. But we urge you, brethren, to excel still more, 11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life and attend to your own business and work with your hands, just as we commanded you, 12 so that you will behave properly toward outsiders and not be in any need. 13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

"by Jack Kelley" is also in the title of the thread, so credit was given. ah didn't see that.

just to give credit where credit is due that article was written by Jack Kelley – www.gracethrufaith.com

Nero was not thrown into the fiery lake alive with his false prophet by the King of Kings. Nero might have been a type of Antichrist but he wasn't the Man of lawlessness aka Son of perdition aka The Beast aka The Antichrist. Revelation 19:19-21 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. These are future events. As to trying to figure out who he is, that's rubbish. 1 Thessalonians 2:6-10 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. This clearly states that he won't be revealed until it is time. And there will be very little doubt of who he is to the saints, if we're even here. They are PAST events. Are you sure Nero is not in the Lake of Fire? I wasn't there. I can only read what John wrote and go from there. John says the Beast is in the Lake of Fire. Since Nero personifies Rome (as Christ personifies the Church, as Washington and Lincoln personify America for examples) remember as well, the Beast is both a NATION (Rome) and its 6th emperor (Nero), and when John writes he isn't always clear which he refers to. One has to read and determine which John is speaking of. The false prophet is his religious agent (apostate Judaism, that part of Israel which rejected Jesus as Messiah, primarily the leadership). Apostate Judaism is for all intents and purposes to the cause of salvation, in the lake of fire, as is Rome for being the agent of Satan. That's pretty far fetched especially when you continue reading Revelation 20. If what you say is correct then we're past the 1000 year reign of Jesus. Following that reasoning Satan has already been bound then released and judged. As well the great white throne judgement has already taken place. How do you account for that? If what you say is true then we are living in a time 1000 years after the events in Revelation 20 have taken place.

Nero was not thrown into the fiery lake alive with his false prophet by the King of Kings. Nero might have been a type of Antichrist but he wasn't the Man of lawlessness aka Son of perdition aka The Beast aka The Antichrist. Revelation 19:19-21 19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20 But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh. These are future events. As to trying to figure out who he is, that's rubbish. 1 Thessalonians 2:6-10 6 And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, 10 and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. This clearly states that he won't be revealed until it is time. And there will be very little doubt of who he is to the saints, if we're even here.

You can not "fall" before being created. Lucifer was not a self made being God created him. God did not create evil ( there is already a thread for that discussion here.)

You would pick one of the most debated chpts! lol Salt in scriptures has a lot of meaning, there is a covenant of salt in Lev. 2 and Numbers 18, it represents the eternal relationship between God and His set apart ones. When salt loses its flavor its not worth a thing you cannot use it for seasonings or anything else other than maybe putting on ice. When we as His servants lose our 'salt' or our desire to serve Him, when we no longer are walking in His ways we lose His light, we lose our flavor so to speak. When we stop proclaiming His name above all elses, when we stop seeking His will in our lives, if we stop being His light to the world what good are we? We are to always keep His ways, His words first and foremost in our hearts and minds when we do this we are shedding His light through us, we are to guard always our hearts and minds against the worlds ways and cling to Him. Ok verses 17-19 will get you once again different points of view. I can only give you what I have come to understand. Messiah did not come to do away with anything He came to rightly show us how to walk in His commandments, which had been added to and taken away from through the decades mostly done during Judahs captivity by the Babylonians and the temple was destroyed the first time. Abolish means just that He did not come to do away with anything, fulfill means exactly what Yod said as well as to correctly interpret or to fill up with meaning. Messiah did not do away with His own laws but showed us how it is possible to keep them with the help of the Holy Spirit. And as we go into the last verse we see that whoever teaches people that there is no laws to keep, no instructions for righteous behavior teaches wrongly, we are not just to walk around thinking His grace covers us and allows us to sin and theres no consequences to that. Hope that helps a bit. shalom, Mizz Thank you, Mizzdy- that does help. As I gain more knowledge about God and His holy laws, I see more and more that I am incapable of keeping them outside of my relationship with Christ (which, as I have learned, is a gift from God Himself). I see that my "saltiness" also comes from God, from me constantly seeking a deeper relationship with Jesus and the Father, and from rejecting the ways of the world, the sin that it has to offer. Jesus is the only holy one that has ever walked the face of the earth, and therefore shines brighter than the darkness of sin- which is why I am considered a light in the world- because I belong to Jesus and the people living in sin can see Jesus' love by my words and actions that are seasoned with salt (the goodness that comes from Jesus Himself). Romans 2:18-19 "and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness". Am I getting it here? I'm so excited to be learning more!!! I do think you are drinking it all in! We are His light, if He dwells within we can only shine Him to the world! Messiah was the only one who walked sinlessly on this earth, and yes giving us the example that it is only by the indwelling of Gods Spirit that we can be righteous before Him. You know it doesn't matter how long one has been studying or walk on His path, we all get excited each day we open His word! I know I do! I think you are doing super! shalom, Mizz One of the main reason's I come to these forums is because it makes me read the bible with almost every post.

When reading this you need to keep in mind who Jesus was addressing. Jesus often spoke differently to large crowds than he did to his disciples. His audience here are mostly Jews, God's chosen people. Jesus is warning them not to lose their saltiness or they will be thrown out and trampled. Basically rejecting God lost them their salt and thus they were thrown out and trampled. Jesus wanted them to be like the lampstand that glorified God our Father. Jesus is basically refuting what the Jewish leaders where saying and what a lot of people were thinking about him here. He's telling them that he is the fulfillment of the scripture, he is the messiah who was prophesied about and the law is fulfilled in him. This is probably the hardest verse of this section. You can get into deep debate about different commandments, especially about the sabbath. Only one person has ever and will ever keep the commandments and he is called great in the kingdom of heaven. Others might be able to spread more light on this part. This is a jab at the Pharisees. People of that time thought that the Pharisees were the most holy and righteous people. The Pharisees would always make a big show of how holy they were in public. Jesus is saying that their show of righteousness isn't enough to get into heaven.

No, PeterH, apostasia (Greek) means defection (which is a kind of departure, I guess); abandonment of what one has voluntarily professed. An apostate is one who deserts professed principles or faith; a renegade. Construing the word apostasia to mean "departure" from the earth, rather than "defection," which is its meaning in Greek, French, Latin and English, is patently wrong. There is NO WAY on God's green earth that apostasia can mean anything else but departure from a standard. There are other Greek words which mean departure from a place and Paul didn't use them here. Chorizo in Acts 1:4 when the Believers were told not to depart from Jerusalem. exerchomai in Acts 16:36 and 16:39 at the release of Paul exeimi in Acts 20:7 referring to Paul's leaving the next day apolyo in Acts 23:20 referring to the release of one in custody ekporeuomai in Acts 25:4 when Festus stated that Paul should be kept at Caesarea but that he himself would depart shortly anagō in Acts 27:12 as a nautical reference meaning to put to sea or leave port aphistēmi in 2 Cor 12:8 referring to his infirmity when Paul asked God to make it depart from him hypagō in James 2:16 meaning to go away in peace (the famous prove faith by your works passage) The good Dr. Ice is wrong...on many points. Thank you Bold Believer, That's exactly the explanation I was looking for. It's hard for a laymen like myself to discount Doctors like the person I quoted in my original post.

USA today is reporting it as a 5.9 http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-08-23/Earthquake-rocks-East-Coast/50107542/1 glad to hear that there aren't any reports of injuries so far.

just some thoughts. We often see gold in contrast to knowledge, wisdom and faith in the bible. Necklaces of gold were sometimes worn by rulers to symbolize their wisdom. James 1:5 tells us to ask God if we lack wisdom and he will generously give it to us without reproach. God may be telling you to ask for his wisdom which it's depths can not be seen or measured hence not being able to see the bottom of the necklace.

Inferring something isn't the will of God because it's not mentioned is a very dangerous path. It's on the verge of adding to the word of God. If as you say tattooing was so common during the lives of the Apostles then why wasn't there something said against it if it is against God's will? No I say the main points of the bible are the plain points. Inferences like this only serve to cause division amongst the body.

So I've been thinking more on my post here and asked some other people about it. Maybe the first resurrection mentioned in Rev 20:6 is talking about the body of Christ as a whole being resurrected and complete. On the Lazarus subject. He wasn't resurrected into a gloried body he was brought back to life or restored. Still a supernatural miracle but Jesus is the first fruits and the first to be transformed to a glorified state.

I just read an article that Apple now has more cash than the US government. Is Steve Jobs going to be our new dictator?