Byron A

Here are some notes that I found helpful in understanding this verse: http://www.faithalone.org/sermons/James2.htm Basically, you have to look at it in context. Nowhere does it say that James has eternal salvation in mind when saying this. Faith without works is dead, not in the sense that the person is unsaved (someone who has died has not lost their salvation), but rather it is lifeless faith. It is useless to everyone in a practical sense, because it does not help anyone. That is the gist of it. For details, go to the link above which will answer many objections to this interpretation that you may have.

The problem of the Rich young ruler was that he was looking at it all wrong. "What must I do to be saved?" Jesus response (listing a bunch of commandments) was to show that if you want to earn your salvation, you must perfectly obey all the commandments, which we know is impossible. The only possible way to be saved is by placing your faith in Jesus Christ. There is nothing we can do in order to be saved. Grace is a free gift from God through faith in Jesus Christ.

When I first read about Free Grace Theology, there was a warming in my spirit. Ever since then, I have read many refutations of Free Grace Theology, but none have been able to convince me. So where do you stand? Some articles for those who know nothing of the debate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordship_salvation_controversy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_grace

I will only be praying for its failure. For elementary students only, I would probably agree. But don't most schools start sex ed these days in middle school? I had my first sex ed class in sixth grade. If we are going to teach sex ed, we need to give Full story. Pretending something doesn't exist doesn't make it so... Byron, are you going to engage with us on this topic or not? I will respond to your reply, but only if you promise not to run off when we get down to the hard questions. I am not going to discuss homosexuality and if it is right or wrong. I decided from that last discussion I participated in on the subject (the one about the Methodist church) that its a waste of time. Everyone already has their mind made up. And there is no nudging it either way. What I posted above has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality. I just have my opinion about the bill in Tennessee. Hey Byron, I want to share something with you. My train broke down this morning on the way to work, THREE times. It meant that a one hour journey took three hours. I had plenty of prayer time up my sleeve, and I prayed for you. I want you to know that I've been in your shoes. Infact, a few years back, you could have substituted 'Byron A' for '~andy~' (my old username) and our threads would have read almost identical. I've banged my head against a brick wall because I loved the Lord but so many of the Christians around me disagreed with me. It drove me absolutely bonkers, and it became exhausting to disagree with so many people so often. I understand that being the odd one out can be exhausting and challenging. Back then, it was difficult to see why they disagreed with me, and sometimes to see the grace and love in them because of our frequent (and I really do mean frequent!) disagreements. There was a time when I considered the label 'fundie' to be derogatory . The Lord has been so gracious, and as I have grown in Him I have found my position on many topics (evolution / homosexuals, etc) has changed. I honestly did't think it would, I thought my liberal interpretation was right, but I was wrong. Dead wrong! I came to realise that my liberal interpretations came at the cost of my ability to read and interpret the Word for what it said . I'm not saying I now have perfect understanding, because I don't, but I have given away many of my liberal ideals for more biblically sound ones. I'm only telling you this because as a result of my journey, I have a soft spot for those that I see trapped in what I consider to be liberal thinking. It was recent enough for me to remember the frustration, pain and exhaustion. I hope you stick around with us and fellowship with us, find agreement with us on the important issues, and grow in your knowledge and understanding of the Word while you are here. Worthy-ites really are a lovely bunch of coconuts . God bless, Candice I am not going anywhere. I do not get frustrated with others who disagree with me. I grew up as a fundamentalist (with the exception of being a Messianic Unitarian (NOT Unitarian Universalist), but I had all the same values. anti-gay, anti-evolution, support Israel right or wrong, etc.), so I know where they are coming from. I just happen to disagree. I have just chosen to avoid the arguments that cause division. If God wants to change my mind on some issue, then He will do so.

I will only be praying for its failure. For elementary students only, I would probably agree. But don't most schools start sex ed these days in middle school? I had my first sex ed class in sixth grade. If we are going to teach sex ed, we need to give Full story. Pretending something doesn't exist doesn't make it so... Byron, are you going to engage with us on this topic or not? I will respond to your reply, but only if you promise not to run off when we get down to the hard questions. I am not going to discuss homosexuality and if it is right or wrong. I decided from that last discussion I participated in on the subject (the one about the Methodist church) that its a waste of time. Everyone already has their mind made up. And there is no nudging it either way. What I posted above has no bearing on the rightness or wrongness of homosexuality. I just have my opinion about the bill in Tennessee.

I will only be praying for its failure. For elementary students only, I would probably agree. But don't most schools start sex ed these days in middle school? I had my first sex ed class in sixth grade. If we are going to teach sex ed, we need to give Full story. Pretending something doesn't exist doesn't make it so...

I think the difference is in why we did these acts. While you can say that both might give them (the radicals) more incentive to attack us, I think the reasons for doing them in the first place would greatly outweigh that incentive and make comparing the two very difficult.

The real question is .... will navy chaplains be required against their moral ethics, against their Christian values, to perform those ceremonies? According to the cited article:

There have been quite a few churches in my life that pushed "works" instead of grace, and instilled "terror" of the Lord. I agree that this is all too common today. The church has fallen into legalism. It teaches works based salvation. We are not saved by works. We are saved by grace. Granted, there is a certain level of morality we are called to, but failure does not lead top the loss of salvation. It may lead to chastisement from the Lord, as any father does for His children. But our salvation is assured from the moment we place our trust in Him. To teach a child that we must our earn our way into Gods favour... That is only setting them up for failure and most will be so frustrated after trong for a bit they will fall away. Been there, done that. But God led me back from the spiritual wastelands of atheism. Better to teach that we will all fall but God is always there to help us back up, is it not?

If you would really like to know where they are coming from, check put this website: (edit) Plain and simple they twist the scripture to make it say what they want and they lead people away from salvation with delusions of acceptance. They really think that they are helping these people but on the day of judgement they will find that they've done just about the worst thing they could do for these people by lying to them and teaching false doctrine. I posted the link for research for those interested. I am not interested in participating in another debate on the subject. Have a good day and God bless you!

I agree 100% sister.

If you would really like to know where they are coming from, check put this website: (edit)

Amen! When we start trying to win our salvation through good works or ccorrect theology we are doomed. Its all about trusting Jesus to take our burden from us. God is so good!

I have tried my best to keep up with all the threads, as well as threads on other topics in this forum. Although I think I am ready for a break from discussing evolution for a while. The same things are being hashed and rehashed on it. And nothing new is being presented on either side. And my purpose in discussing evolutionary creationism in the first place wasn't to convince people that its true but rather convince them that its compatible with Christian faith. Everyone seems to want to devolve the topic into discussing the position itself. Thats fine, but that just wasn't my purpose. So I think I will say good-bye to this forum (Apologetics/Faith vs. Science) for a while and focus on more constructive threads than one that causes more division than its worth. See you all in the other threads of Worthy Christians!

I agree with scientists that we evolved from homo erectus. At some point during the evolution process from homo erectus to homo sapiens, or possibly just after it, God made the first Humans (Adam and Eve) into His (spiritual) Image by breathing His Spirit into them. This implies that Adam and Eve had human parents, and therefore they were not the first humans. This is, in my humble opinion, a contradiction of biblical proportions (pun intended :-). No, Adam and Eve were the first Humans. Perhaps at conception (my view) or perhaps at another time (birth maybe, or maturation into adulthood) they were made into God's Image by God breathing His Spirit into them.

I agree with scientists that we evolved from homo erectus. At some point during the evolution process from homo erectus to homo sapiens, or possibly just after it, God made the first Humans (Adam and Eve) into His (spiritual) Image by breathing His Spirit into them.

I have attempted to go back and answer questions in those threads. Have I missed some important question that you would like to see answered? If so, please go back to that topic and repost it. This is untrue. YEC says that the first animal death was God making skins for Adam and Eve. TE says that the first animal death happened billions of years before. Romans 5 says that death entered because of sin, whereas evolution requires death before its cause. In the paradigm of Theistic Evolution (aka, Evolutionary Creationism), the death of Romans 5 speaks of human death, both physical and spiritual. This does not change the fact that God provided a perfect utopia in the Garden of Eden, but that man (through Adam and Eve) rejected this utopia and brought death to all their progeny. Nor does it change our need for salvation, nor for a savior. As an aside, I do agree with the significance with the sacrifice that happened when God made the animal skins. I just don't see it as the first animal death, but rather I see it as the first sacrifice ever made. It prefigures Christ in many ways. For example, it covered the shame of fallen man (they were shamed to see that they were naked). It was initiated by God and not by man (Just like Christ's sacrifice was). Narrow minded? Yes, thanks for presenting us with an unbiased, neutral article to work with. Basically, this quote just says: "They got nothing. We are right. There are lots of us." Stating that something is viable does not make it so. Stating that many people believe something, does not make it so. Islam is a fine example that proof by popular consensus is wrong. I do disagree with the negative term "narrow-minded", its too judgmental for my tastes. However, I agree with the main gist of this quote, and that is that Theistic Evolution is only incompatible with YEC version of Christianity, but not incompatible with Christianity itself.

Anyone who knows me knows that I believe that "Faith vs. Science" is a false dichotomy. As usual, I am not posting this to convince anyone that evolution is true, only to try to convince that it is compatible with Christianity.

I imagine that they would have put a rush order on this one...

Also, if this had been Osama's home for any amount of time, I am sure the place had lots of items. Too many to list everything on the compund, probably. Perhaps there had been a dialysis machine, but no one thought to report it. Just because someone didn't report seeing one doesn't mean that there wasn't one there.

I agree with you on that one. But they all want to be the first to break a story, or to give new details, so false details always come out because they don't check them first. I say we fire the whole lot of news broadcast networks and start over with new ones! Lol.

So you think that in a book full of symbolism Revelations), this number MUST be taken literally? Do you also believe that only 144,000 people will be saved, and that they will be ethnic Jews?

Ki Amen!

You wanna know where I stand on the subject of gay Christians? If they claim to be Christian, and I see love for others coming out of them (for example, charity, evangelism, etc.) I take them at their word and let the Holy Spirit clean up their lives. I have not been called to point out the sin in fellow Christian's lives. I don't know, maybe you have. Although I doubt it. I have been called to worship God in fellowship with others. I worship with people of all walks of life every week. That worship brings them closer to God regardless of what sins are in their life. While they are there in His presence, then God can deal with their sin Himself. As long as one's sins are not hurting someone else, I allow God to handle them. IMHO, sanctification is a separate matter from salvation. Sanctification is a long process, a process of becoming like Christ. And its a personal matter, between God the Holy Spirit and the believer. It will be different for each person. I am also one who believes that sin does not take our salvation away. If God deals with a certain sin in that process of sanctification, and we ignore it, God will not cast us away. He may chastise us, and it may distance us from Him. We may even lose some of our rewards in the next life. But our salvation itself is assured. Do not the Scriptures say that nothing can separate us from His love? I believe that also includes sins. I am done discussing this subject for the time being. I think everything that can be said on the subject has been said, so we will just continue to go in circles if we continue to discuss it. And going in circles is just a waste of time. It also serves to divide us. Have a good day, and God bless you!