tintiger78

Eccl, I regret to say I must step away from this discussion. You are determined make an arguement that is not possible with Scripture. Unless you get the answer you want, no answer will satisfy you, despite what Scripture says. You are splitting hairs with your terminlogy. That which Jesus purchased for us by His death was indeed salvation. I hope you come to term with that quickly for I fear you are on a very dangerous road. Praying for you, Tin

I know this may be a hard one to understand but the gift that Jesus gave was not salvation! The gift that He gave ALLOWS each and everyone of us the chance at salvation! Now that He has given us the means or way to salvation it is up to us to do what is needed to obtain it. . Ok, I must note that I strongly disagree withh your statement, Eccl. If we do not have a guarentte of salvation in the finished work of Jesus Christ, then I must echo the words of Paul in 1 Cor 15:19, If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. If only get into Heaven by a roll of divine dice, then what is the point of God telling us to live righteously? It would be of no benefit. No, Christ did not die to leave it to chance that we make Heaven. He died once for all to open the doors for all to come freely as they trust in Him for salvation. I point to these verses in John; 1:12, 3:3, 3:16-18, 5:24. In each one, Jesus makes it clear. It is not chance. The only thing we have to do to receive this salvation is accept it. Candice, I apologize that I jumped in on your conversation with Eccl, but I felt a need to address it. Please forgive me if I offended.

It depends on the judgement you recieve. The Great White Throne is reserved for the unrepentant. If your name is in the Book of Life, you are then at the Judgement seat of Christ, where "rewards" are handed out to those that qualify for them. Our actions will be judged on basis of our intentions. At least that is how I understand Matt. 25:31-46. Does not sound like a very fair God...to have TWO criteria's for salvation now does it? . I do not see how it is unfair. Salvation is offered to all. Those who accept it recieve life. Those who do not get what they wish, for God to leave them alone. Edit: Sorry, i misread what was written. I apologize. There is only one criteria for salvation: faith in the work of Christ. Our works are only to act as a means to show what Christ as done for us and our acceptance of it

Psalm 18. It is a great reminder of who God is and what He will do for His children.

Both are necessary, but only FAITH in the redeeming work of Christ results in salvation. James 2:24 states that a person is justifyed by faith and the things they do. But do not read it incorrectly. Faith alone saves, while the "deeds" are an outward evidence of the inward change. We are saved because we accept the undeserved Gift. We do because we are gratetful. At no point can we do anything that gains us salvation. I hope I made that distinction clear. Let me ask you something.....what will we be judged by when the books are opened? Our faith or our deeds....the actions we did or did not perform? Just something to consider. . It depends on the judgement you recieve. The Great White Throne is reserved for the unrepentant. If your name is in the Book of Life, you are then at the Judgement seat of Christ, where "rewards" are handed out to those that qualify for them. Our actions will be judged on basis of our intentions. At least that is how I understand Matt. 25:31-46.

Both are necessary, but only FAITH in the redeeming work of Christ results in salvation. James 2:24 states that a person is justifyed by faith and the things they do. But do not read it incorrectly. Faith alone saves, while the "deeds" are an outward evidence of the inward change. We are saved because we accept the undeserved Gift. We do because we are gratetful. At no point can we do anything that gains us salvation. I hope I made that distinction clear.

Ok, here is my attempt to wade into these choppy waters. My disclaimer here is that I am a bit unfamiliar with the OSAS debate, so if I mischaracterize in anyway, I apologize. I have done a brief scan through of both sides and here is where I fall. If I end up running from these waters screaming like a sissy, please do not think any less of me. It will be that I realized I was not ready for this topic. As I understand, OSAS, it is the belief that once a person comes to salvation, his salvation cannot be "removed" from him of his own accord and/or that God has already chosen those that are to be saved. Personally, I reject this. My basis is this: Acts 10, with focus on verses 34 and 35. The quick version of events here is this: a Roman military offical (whom I will name Corny, for sake of brevity) caught the attention of God, who sends an angel, telling Corny to seek out Peter. Peter, meanwhile, has seen a vision of a sheet full of "unclean" animals being offered to him as food. After a back and forth with God about what is clean and unclean, Peter is left a bit bewildered about it. Then the men sent from Corny arrive and inquire about Peter. Peter goes with the men back to Corny, who explains to Peter his encounter with the angel. Here, Peter understands his own vision as God opening the gift of salvation even to the "unclean" Gentile. Here is where verses 34 and 35 comes into play: Acts 10:34- Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism, (35) but accepts men from every nation who fear Him and do what is right." My analyis of this verse leads me to believe that God does not pick and choose who comes. He accepts all who come to understand the truth. John 1:12-13 speak to the same: John 1:12-13- 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. The emphasis in John, I believe, is in this phrase "Yet to all who did receive Him". It is a matter of human will to submit to God's authority, though I would point out that God's authority is not subject human will. God is Supreme, despite what we think or declare. It is man's responsibilty to choose the right way, that is submission to God. As far as names being removed from the Book of Life, yes it does happen, through a person's choice to willfully and continually disobey God and dispise His authority. Can they return? Of course, but until they do, they will not gain the joys of Heaven. God has given us freewill, the allowance to choose for ourselves what path we will follow. But with this freedom comes a great responsibility: we are responsible for our actions and will have to answer for them. Well, there are my thoughts concerning this topic. They are by no means comprehensive, nor are they meant as an end all of this discussion (I don't think I am that arrogant! ). Love, Peace and Provision to each of you through our Blessed Redeemer, Tin

Sharia law is a very dangerous philosophy and for Americans to attempt to embrace it would prove to be disasterous. I am part of a group on FB that is political in nature but at a grassroots/citizenry level. One of the common topics is the result of sharia in nations that abide by it. In a nutshell, if you are female, sharia is a nightmare come true. My greatest disapponitment in our President is his limp-as-a-fish commitment to Israel. To believe that Islam would ever commit to living peacefully with Israel is obsurd. This is the continuing battle of Issac and Ishmael. And while I believe that Israel must be supported by the USA, it is not the USA that will ensure her safety. God alone is the defender of Israel. If all other nations turn their back on Israel or, to their own ruin, line up against Israel, they will their own fate before God. Continue to pray for Israel. This "Arab Spring" may look innocent at first, but it a very deceiving evil.

I use multiple commentaries for the purpose of understanding other views. But I do choose to stay as close to the orignal greek/hebrew as I can. A cultural background commentary is something I have found quite useful.

Our founders said they gave us a republic. Even a quick Wiki search will reveal that. As far as the USSR is concerned, the key word is not Republic but Socialist.

All I can say is "ouch!"

JHERB got to the cake before I did! lol! Danl, may this be the happiest of birthdays for you. It was great meeting you in chat last nite. Look forward to seeing you again! My prayer for you today is that God's blessings would not be hidden from your eyes, but that they would be clearly evident and shared with you and yours! In Christ forgiven, Tintiger P.S. I couldn't resist!

I remember one time as a kid in high school, a team of LDS (mormon) men came to the house. I answered the door and the men introduced themselves and when my dad got to the door, started their presentation. In the denomination I attended (and still do), we had a weekly magazine and in the front cover was a list of our fundamental truths. My dad was not one who grew up in a Christian house and was barely tredding water with these men. A progam I was involved with in church aimed at using compatition and fun to teach Biblical truths. Being that dad was having trouble, I grabbed a copy of the magazine and went to help. I just asked them simple questions based on the truths I grew up with, such as "I believe that the Bible is the only inspired and infallible word of God", and explain as best a high schooler could why I believed it was true. Then men would explain their beliefs and I would respond if I could. My brother came out and tried to "help", but he was only into confronting them and accusing them of things. I told him to leave and apologized to the men for his outbrust, and continued my presentation. The emotion registered on the men's faces: amazement. They were used to being chased off and swore at. Here, their faces seemed to say, we are treated well. What I learned out of this is that understanding the truth that we claim to believe and why we believe it, and presenting it in a gentle non-accusitory way goes a long way with people, much like we are urged to pracitice in the Apologitcs forum. I guess my point is this: how well do we know the faith we follow? Is it simply a collection of trendy verses that we see behind the goalposts at NFL football games? Or is it something that we can share in an informed manner to those that are lost or at least confused? 1 Peter 3:15-16 tells us this: But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. Well, the story ends with the LDS men clearly befiddled. They said as much: Well, it is good to see that someone does know what they believe. And with that they left. I never met them again, but I felt something then that I have not felt since. Like I had made my Heavenly Father proud.

NASB, NIV, The Messege, ESV I use these to see how the translation differs and to understand it easier.

Wow, what a question! Thank you for asking it. I will attempt to answer as best I can and ask other Worthy members to help me correct any error that I may have made. As I read the Bible, I encounter often the theme that God has a purpose for us be here. Jere. 29:11 spells it out most clear. The problem we face is that our enemy also has a plan and it is not for our good or benefit. My belief is that God intends for us to live long and enjoy the things He created for us. But because of the Fall of man, sin mars the wonder of God's work and we in turn seek comfortible solutions to the problems our sin causes, such as abortion in many cases. It has never been nor is it now the will of God for an innocent child to be torn from the hands of life. But in His great wisdom, He gave us a choice: choose to live in harmony with Him in voluntary obedience or choose our own path away from Him and His provision. Those who choose to abort a child for whatever reason have chosen a path that is contrary to God's plan. I understand the verse from which you started your post in this way: God knows the number our days and knows when they will run out. As far as God intending for those children to die, I solidly say no, just as I would answer if asked if God intended a murder victim to meet their end as they did. Satan and sin have been working to foul up God's plan since the Garden of Eden. Though He has given us a set number of days, He has not promised us we would see them all. God may have a purpose in these situations, but they are His own and our understanding often fails us as we attempt to make sense of His prefect will with our limited human understanding. Such things may only be known by Him and the ones He choses to reveal them. I do hope this helps in some way. Tintiger

The answer I feel I can give you, Broken, is to look at the resurrection of Jesus. Then look at the end of other religious leaders. Muhummud died. So did Budda. Confusious and Nitcheze did too. Jesus Christ is the only one who proved His power over death by returning from it. His death also opened the way for us to come freely to God the Father and confess our faults, find forgiveness and be given eternal life. Agua said it best, saying that Jesus said He was. His death and triumphant resurrection over it assures us that one day, we too can have the chains of sin and death removed from us. The book of Hebrews is a great book to read to help understand the greatness of Jesus. If you haven't yet, take some time to read it. Blessing to you dear one, Tintiger

The best book I have found that relates to the this topic is "The 5000 Year Leap" by W. Cleon Skousen. We are a republic with the people as a whole being the leaders sending representives to DC. We are to be choosing people who are a repersentation of the group (states/districts) they serve. But we have gotten into the habit of electing the flashiest or the best orator. We need to have term limits on Congress as they are becoming an unchecked dictorship in their own right.

Here's my take. James 2:14-26 is often refered to as "Salvation by Works or by Faith". In truth it is not either/or, but both are needed. We are saved by faith and faith only. The works we do are evidence of our faith in Jesus Christ and are meant to be seen by others to draw them to Christ. You will not get to Heaven without faith in Jesus Christ. Others will be drawn by seeing your faith in God in your actions. As far as how do we know we are God's "property"? He says so! John 17 records a prayer of Jesus just hours before He is arrested to face execution. In verses 6-19, He prays for the disciples and in 20-26 He prays for us. Note verses 6, 9, 21 and 24. Notice a theme? Jesus claims us as His own! Further more, Jesus states that everything He has was given to Him by God the Father. Dear friend, your are God's. If you have "confessed with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved." What a wonderful promise. Hope this helps.

I agree, Matthitjah. If anyone does not know who Jim Wallis and group Sojourners are, find out quick. There are wolves in the sheep pen and they are preparing to strike.

Where are the demands to stop the rocket attacks? Israel is, almost literally, between the devil and the deep blue sea. I know that according to end time prophecy, God will defend Israel in incredible fashion, but for now, it would behoove our President to make it clear that the US supports Israel fully. But we all know how that will really end. Lots of talk but no action while Israel is left to her own defense.

We in America do not really know how good we have it compared to fellow believers in foreign lands. Yet, they are the ones that prove their faith real as James 2:14-17 describes and we Americans become lazy an complacent. It may be a crazy thought, but maybe persecution is a good thing that forces us to remain on guard, as these believers have seen. What do you all think? I too will pray. Blessings, all!

It is an excellent question. They already know the answer. Obama is all talk but no show. And with the latest move by Reid to limit and even stifle debate on the jobs bill, these Occupy members are drinking some bad kool-aid. With all the upheaval currently takng place in our nation, does it not feel like God is preparing something big?

Tim Hawkins is my personal favorite as far as Christian Comedy goes, followed by Thor Ramsey in a very close 2nd.

I really enjoyed seeing this as I am a Cain supporter.

Then at least we know they have passed the dead-line for his execution which was last week...it is very difficult to get current information as the Iranian government is trying to serve up all sorts of justifcations to take this mans life as quickly and quietly as possible....may they be thwarted at every attempt, and may G-d place stumbling blocks in their way and confusion in their camp...and let more voices of authority appeal on his behalf, even from amongst the Iranians. L-rd deliver this man from the clutches of evil men, save him O Mighty G-d, and in the meantime sustain both him and his family, and those that love them and are part of the community of Believers in Iran. Amen, Botz