douggg

I did not say that the abomination of desolation statue image "causes" great tribulation. "triggers" and "causes" have two different meanings. For example, in a hundred yard dash race, the starting gun fired "triggers" the beginning of the race. But the "cause" of the race though is because the event organizers created the event. Great tribulation for the 1335 days will be because of the wrath of God in the vials, and the judgements of God in the trumpets, and persecutions by the beast-king, and the false prophet, and Satan, and their followers - taking place during the time period called the great tribulation.

Revelation 8:10-11 is talking about a third of the waters of the earth as a whole. The verses appear to be talking about some sort of huge asteroid striking the earth, perhaps breaking up into smaller pieces upon entering the earth's atmosphere. 10And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; 11And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. ---------------------------------------------------------- When Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, in verse 8.... 8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

Please stop saying what I believe. I will say what I believe and you can copy and paste it if you want. But don't be bearing false witness of what I believe. I have not said the statue image "causes" great tribulation. The statue image of the beast king that the false prophet has made and setup on the temple mount will trigger the beginning of the time period called the great tribulation. That the statue image of the beast king is the abomination of desolation - was prefigured in Daniel 11:31 by what Antiochus IV did - which was to setup a statue image of Zeus in the temple. 31And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. From the time the abomination of desolation is setup until Jesus's return is 1335 days. Daniel 12:11-12. 3.5 years is 1260 days. The day that Jesus returns, these scriptures say what will happen on that day... Zechariah 14:1-5. Revelation 19:11-20:4. Revelation 14:14-20. Matthew 24:30b. Mark 13:26. Revelation 1:7. Ezekiel 39:17-21. Ezkiel 28:17-19. Daniel 8:25. Daniel 7:26. Jude 1:14. 2Thessalonians2:8. There is not going to be a nuclear explosion in Jerusalem, which would destroy the city, the temple mount, and everyone within, and make it uninhabitable.

2Peter3:10 is about the destruction of this present earth. When Jesus returns, this present earth is not destroyed, but continues for a thousand years. Don't be ridiculous. I never said that Jesus would stand of the Mt. of Olives for 1000 years. 2Peter3:10 is about the entire earth and the works therein destroyed. The abomination of desolation standing on the temple mount will be the visible signal that Jesus says for them in Judea to flee to the mountains... because it signals the beginning of the great tribulation. Matthew 24:15-21. btw, that statue image of the beast king - the false prophet will require people to worship or die. Revelation 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

You quoted 2Peter3:10 which is about the destruction of this present earth. 10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. One segment of the day of the Lord is when Jesus comes. Another segment of the day of the Lord is what Peter wrote about in 2Peter3:10. No, I am saying that you don't understand the concept of the day of Lord. It is comprised of segments, in sequential order.

No, what Peter wrote about is what will take place during the Day of the Lord when it comes. The Day of the Lord is not a 24 hour day. The Day of the Lord is an eternal span. It is subdivided into segments (as I show on my chart). ...i.e the ToD, then the AoD, then the great tribulation, then Jesus's second coming, then the GWT judgment, then eternity. It begins when the Antichrist commits the transgression of desolation act in 2Thessalonians2:4, around 3 years into the 7 years. The destruction of this earth and the works within will take place after the 1000 year reign of Jesus on this present earth is over. The destruction of this present earth and heaven is in Revelation 20:11 at the time of the GWT (Great White Throne) Judgement. Here is my chart that shows everything.

The day Jesus returns: Zechariah 14:1-5. Revelation 19:11-20:4. Revelation 14:14-20. Matthew 24:30b. Mark 13:26. Revelation 1:7. Ezekiel 39:17-21. Ezkiel 28:17-19. Daniel 8:25. Daniel 7:26. Jude 1:14. 2Thessalonians2:8. The atmosphere: Zechariah 14:6-7 The sky: Revelation 6:12-14. Mark 13:24-25. Matthew 24:29. The earth: Revelation 8. Revelation 16. The people who come up against Jerusalem. Zechariah 14:12. Revelation 19:21.

Jerusalem is not going to be nuked. Jesus returns to the Mt. of Olives which directly faces the temple mount, separated by the Kidron valley. If Jerusalem were nuked, there would be nothing left of it.

Because the wilderness in Revelation 12:14 is the mountains in Israel. The wilderness in Revelation 12:6 is the land of Israel as a whole. The Jews following WWII came out of the nations and back into the land of Israel. They then formed the nation of Israel again in May 14, 1948. The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 is the testimony time of the two witnesses in Jerusalem. First half of the 7 years.

The person goes through five stages on the way to his destruction of being cast alive into the lake of fire at Jesus's return.

The two witnesses will be saying to the Jews in Jerusalem that the person they have embraced as the messiah is not the messiah at all but the Antichrist. And they will be saying to the Jews not to trust him, because he will betray them. The Antichrist about 3 years into the seven years will commit the transgression of desolation act of sitting in the temple, claiming to have achieved God-hood. 2Thessalonians2:4. Betraying the Jews and the Mt Sinai covenant he will have confirmed earlier, when the Jews first think he is the messiah. Because of his audacious act, God will have the revealed man of sin killed. Ezekiel 28:1-10. But in total disgust for the person, God does not allow him to be buried in an ornate tomb, and brings him back to life, while his body is still in his open casket. Isaiah 14:18-20. The world will marvel, and worship him, thinking he has overcome death - but it will be the strong deception that God sends to them who believe his claim to have achieved God-hood, i.e. the lie. 2Thessalonains2:11. The false prophet will have an image made of the person, the beast-king because upon coming back to life, he will be possessed by the spirit of Garden of Eden serpent beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit. That image will be the abomination of desolation of Daniel 12:11-12. Placed on the temple 1335 days before Jesus returns. Day 1185 in the 7 years. So the person becomes the beast while it is still in the first half of the 7 years. For 75 days the two witnesses will battle with the beast-king, as the Jews flee into the mountains. Then on day 1260, the beast-king is finally able to overcome the two witnesses and kill them. --------------------------------------------------------------- With the two witnesses gone, the beast-king will rule unhampered by them for 42 months until Jesus returns.

Revelation 12:6, the wilderness is the land of Israel, that the woman flees to - to escape the persecution of Satan while in the nations. Such as, during the holocaust during WWII. Revelation 12:14, the wilderness is the mountains within Israel, as Jesus said for the Jews to do when they see the abomination of desolation standing on the temple mount, the holy place, in Matthew 24:15-21. The seven years of Daniel 9:27 are the seven years of Revelation 12. 1260 days, the first half. The time, times, half time of the second half.

The sequence in Revelation 12 is 1260 days, then the war in heaven (the second heaven) time, then the time, times, half time. The total is 7 years. The abomination of desolation setup until Jesus returns is 1335 days (Daniel 12:11-12). The 1335 days can fit into 7 years - but the 1335 days cannot fit into 1260 days.

Revelation 12:6-17 contain the 7 years. The 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 comprise the first half. The time, times, half time in Revelation 12:14 comprise the second half. Revelation 12:6-17 is about what the Jews, Israel, will experience in the end times. Nothing in Revelation 12 is about the church. The church does not have any 7-year period assigned to it. -------------------------------------------------- The judgement on the kings of the earth and their armies is... 1. By Jesus against the armies surrounding Jerusalem, in Zechariah 14, Revelation 19:19-21. 2. The destruction of armies gathered at Armageddon which had not moved down to surround Jerusalem, but still fill the land of Israel, will be by the angel in Revelation 14:17-20. I suggest you read those verses.

First half, not second half. The two witnesses' 1260 days coincide with the first half of Daniel 9:27.

My chart agrees totally with scripture. What does not agree with scripture is your understanding of the timing of Zechariah 14 and when the 7th angel sounds during the 7 years. When Jesus returns, every eye with see Him. Does not happen in Revelation 11. Not in the text. Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

As I have stated over and over - Zechariah 14 is at Jesus's Return and takes place at the end of the 7 years. Look at my chart, right side. Do you see where I show "Jesus Returns to the Mt of Olives"? Differently, the 1260 days of the two witnesses end in the middle of the 7 years.

No, it is not the nations who kill the two witnesses, but the beast-that ascends out of the bottomless pit, i.e possessed beast-king. Zechariah 14, when Jesus Returns, is at the end of the 7 years. The Revelation 11 events involving the two witnesses end mid-way through the 7 years.

Shilohsfoal, The 7th angel's sounding announces what the third woe to the inhabiters of the earth will be. In Revelation 12:12 is the third woe - Satan cast down to earth with great wrath, having but short time left. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. The short time is the time, times, half time of Revelation 12:14.

No, here is what the bible says... 9And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 10And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. No-one is attacking Jerusalem in Revelation 11. You have the timing of the 7th angel sounding at the wrong time during the 7 years because you don't understand what Revelation 11:15 is saying. Zechariah 14, when Jesus Returns to the Mt. of Olives, takes place at the end of the 7 years. The 7 years of Daniel 9:27 are in Revelation 12 as I have explained a few posts back.

In Revelation 11, the people in the nations are exchanging presents and celebrating with one another for those 3 days - so the nations are not attacking Jerusalem at that time. Attacking Jerusalem is not in Revelation 11 before the seventh angel sounds. The beast king of Revelation 13 will be possessed by the spirit of the Garden of Eden serpent beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit. So the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit in Revelation 11 is talking about the same person - the beast king.

No Satan does not reign with Christ. You are not understand Revelation 12. Maybe this will help you.... The first five verses of Revelation 12 are a visual portrayal of biblical events to identify the woman in the rest of Revelation 12 as Israel, stemming from a dream Joseph had in Genesis, and the four gospels about Jesus, and Acts 1 when he was caught up to heaven. Revelation 12:6-17 are the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 determined upon Jerusalem and Daniel's people - the Jews - making up Israel, the woman. One of the reasons we can know those verses are about the 7 years is because of the description of the dragon - i.e. the crowns/no crowns on the heads and horns compared to the other two visuals in Revelation 13 and 17. Heads and horns. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Heads and horns... In Revelation 12, with 7 years to go before the mystery of God spoken of by the mighty angel in Revelation 10:7 is finished - the heads have crowns, the horns do not. What that means is that at the start of the 7 years, the seven kings of the prophecy of the seven kings in Revelation 17:10 is complete, i.e. king 7 has come to power - the little horn person. In Revelation 12, none of the horns have crowns, because the little horn person has not transformed into the beast-king at that point. Compared to Revelation 13, which with 42 months left to go, the horns have crowns, because the ten kings rule with the beast-king, Revelation 17:12, for "one hour", an expression for the 42 months. The little horn has become the beast-king in Revelation 13, king eight of Revelation 17:11. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- So in it's simplest terms, Revelation 12, verses are.... 1. verses 1-5 are a visual portrayal centered on the historic biblical events about the woman Israel and Jesus the man-child she gave birth to. 2. verse 6-17 are the 7 years of Daniel 9:27 pertaining to Israel and the Jews. ......a. the 1260 days first half ......b. the time, times, half time of the second half

What translation are you using ? 15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. kjv Kingdoms plural. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. Is that not speaking about the seven vials of God's wrath in Revelation 16 ? ------------------------------------------------------- The problem is that you are misunderstanding verse 15. Basically, what that verse is saying is that the time has come for the kingdoms of this world to become the kingdom of God and His Christ. It is "are become" in verse 15. In Revelation 10:6-7, "there should be time no longer" is just a way of saying "no more delay". In the "days" indicating a block of time, not a day, when the seventh angel begins to sound, marking the beginning of that block time, that the mystery of God as he has declared to his servant the prophets be finished. That block of time is the time/times/half time that Satan will have left after the seven angel sounds his trumpet. 6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: 7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. kjv

The beast king does have a lineage. Some where in his ancestry he will be descended from the Julio-Claudians. Revelation 17: 10And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.