douggg

Well, the wild olive tree is not cultivated. The olive tree which gentiles, by way of Christ, are grafted into is a cultivated olive tree, which God has attended to in His growth of Israel, to inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of those original branches have been cutoff due to their rejection of Jesus. The tree is not the goal. The tree grows into the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is the goal. To enter the Kingdom of God, a person must be saved, their soul redeemed and later their body redeemed. All Israel being saved is referring to the generation, the nation of Israel, that will receive Jesus and the gospel of Salvation - so that they too will inherit the Kingdom of God. Isaiah 66:7-8 is about that generation, when Israel becomes a nation again in the land, in one day, May 14, 1948. And the two stage salvation of the Jews, to take place. First the 144,000. Then the rest of the Jews. So that all Israel will be saved.

Isaiah 66:7-8 is telling when the Jews turn to Jesus. In a two step process. First the 144, 000. Then the rest of the Jews. Isaiah 66:7 7 Before she travailed, she brought forth [the 144,000] ; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. [Jesus] The man child in that verse is Jesus. The same man child as in Isaiah 9:6. Before she travailed in bringing forth her children, before her pain came - which is the pain of going through the great tribulation, 2000 years later, in the end times.... ...Jesus, the deliverer, was born to Israel, which took place historically, 2000 years ago. The historic verses of Revelation 12:1-5, Jesus is the man child in those verses as well.. The remainder of Revelation 12:6-17 is end times, when Satan will be cast down to earth in the early parts of the great tribulation. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Next verse, Isaiah 66:8, is about the end times, When the Jews come out of the nations and Israel becomes a nation in the land again, born as such, in one day on May 14, 1948. Isaiah 66:8 Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children (the rest of the Jews) The 144,000 in verse 7. The rest of the Jews in verse 8 The 144,000, sealed in Revelation 7:3-4 are the firstfuits, Revelation 14:4, the special group of Jews saved before the judgements of God begin - i.e. before the trumpet judgments and the bowls of God's wrath judgments get going in full swing once the great tribulation begins. The 144,000 Jews are in Isaiah 66:7 "before Zion travailed". The rest of the Jews are in Isaiah 66:8 "as soon as Zion travailed". So all Israel will be saved, as it says in Romans 11. What it boils down to is that the rest of the Jews will turn to Jesus, the deliverer, and the gospel of salvation in the early beginnings, i.e. as soon as Zion travailed, of the great tribulation - which will begin when the abomination of desolation statue image is placed on the temple mount. Those are the ones in Revelation 12:10. 10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

The AoD will be setup on day 1185 (1335 days before Jesus returns). The Jews begin fleeing to the mountains at that time. There will be a portion of the Jews who don't heed Jesus's words to flee right away when they see the AoD standing in the holy place (the temple mount). That portion of Jews will be cutoff from fleeing, and will remain in Jerusalem, being subject to persecution under the beast-king's 42 month reign. --------------------------------------- At the end of the 7 years, those Jews persecuted and held as captives (as hostages in Zechariah 14:3), will "escape" through the valley created by the mount of Olives splitting in half, when Jesus touches down on it. _

JohnD, your chart has things in the wrong place. The 1335 days and 1290 days both begin when the A.oD is setup. The 1290 days lead to the 6th seal event of the sign of the Son of man in heaven. Which the reaction of the kings of the earth will be to gather their armies at Amageddon to make war on Jesus, to keep Him from executing judgment on them. Most of the first half of the seven years will be a false messianic age of the world saying peace and safety. It will not be tribulation.

So you are Amil ? That explains a lot. Please remind me the next time we disagree on anything. I don't try to convince Amil nor Partial Preterists of anything.

First of all, you think there is only one key to the bottomless pit. How many keys do you have to your house ? The falling star is Satan falling to earth.

No, Jesus does not dissolve this present earth. In Zechariah 14, after Jesus returns, the nations of the earth will come to Jerusalem to worship the great King - Jesus. That takes place after the millennial rule of Jesus on this present earth.

I ask you what was the number of the woe to the inhabiters of earth and seas is. Not to describe the woe. The text itself in Revelation 12:12 describes the woe. It not "generic" warning. It is a specific woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea. Satan cast down to earth having great wrath. When the 7th angel sounds, that is the signal for Michael and his angels to cast Satan and his angels. It will be right after the 1260 days in Revelation 12:6 and the 1260 days of the two witnesses in Reveltion 11:3.

Jesus returns to end the great tribulation. And rescue them who had become believers during that time. His Return is not a woe to the inhabiters of the earth.

Revelation 8:13 is where we are told that the last three trumpets are woes to the inhabiters of the earth. It is not just the word woe in Revelation 12. But woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea. The three woes are woes to the inhabiters of the earth. Why don't you just admit that you are wrong about something? The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth is marked by the sounding of the 7th angel. But the third woe is not Jesus's Second Coming - but Satan cast down to earth having great wrath - knowing his time is short - a time/times/half time. Who is the falling star in Revelation 9:1-2, who starts the first woe ? It is Satan having great wrath, and opens the bottomless pit, to release the locust creatures, and his other cohort demons to torture men, and cause havoc over the time/times/half time.

No, the second coming of Jesus is not called a woe to the inhabiters of the earth.

You are evading. It is not just the word woe - but the three woes are woe to the inhabiters of the earth. So again, what woe to the inhabiters of the earth, is Revelation 12:12 ? Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! Revelation 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Justin, you at least put up a timeline chart showing your view. Here is my view...

How long was John F Kennedy the Senator of Massachusetts ? His whole life ? Was he the Senator of Massachusetts while he was President of the United States? Those are stages he went through, Revelation Man. I am just illustrating a point. ------------------------------------------ The person we are talking about is the Antichrist only for the time he is the King of Israel coming in his own name. Revealing himself to be the man of sin - ends his time as the Antichrist, because the Jews are no longer going to allow him to be their King of Israel. And his claim of having achieved God-hood is his first step of becoming the beast king.

Who is falling star in Revelation 9:1 who starts the first woe by opening the bottomless pit? 1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. The third woe is Satan cast down to earth. The span of the third woe, the time/times/half time, contains the first woe and the second woe.

What woe number is this? Revelation 12: 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

I personally am not a dispensationalist. The end times prophecies in the bible are not nonsense, but the word of God, which He has so graciously decided to share with us, a blessing for which He deserves praise and worship.

The 42 months of the beast king's reign - is 42 months when he is no longer hampered by the two witnesses - who will have left the world. Before then, he is the beast king, but will be battling the two witnesses during the last 75 days of their 1260 day witnessing time. I show those things on my chart below...

Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound! John was shown what woes one and two would be in Revelation 9. After John is shown and told about the two witnesses, the mighty angel (of Revelation 10) tells John... 14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. The last woe that John had been shown what it would be is the second woe of Revelation 9. The mighty angel was informing John that he would would soon be shown what the third woe will be. The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth AND sea - since the mighty angel speaking stood on both the earth and sea in Revelation 10 - is Satan cast down to earth having great wrath knowing his time is short. 12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. You, nor anyone else, is going to find the term Woe to the inhabiters of the earth - in any verses anywhere else in Revelation, following the mighty angel's statement of the third woe comes quickly. So please stop with the idiomatic mocking me. How long is the short time that Satan will have left is in Revelation 12:14. 14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. The time, times, half a time of the third woe encapsulates the time of both the first and second woes. God has given me both the ability to make charts, and to understand the scriptures.

It has been a blessing from God. And I am thankful for how He has used me. On my own, I am nobody.

There are two distinctive things that are to happen with the seventh angel. 1. In the days of when he sounds, the mystery of God will be competed (which is the kingdoms of this world become the kingdoms of His Christ, our Lord). 2. he signals the third woe. The third woe to the inhabiters of the earth and sea is, without question, Satan cast down to earth having great wrath, knowing that his time short, in Revelation 12:12. Which is the time/times/half time of Revelation 12:14. So that means the third woe spans basically the second half of the seven years. And since the seventh angel does not sound (in Revelation 11:15) until after the two witnesses are gone from this earth (in Revelation 11:12)..... The two witnesses' 1260 days is the first half of the seven years.

I don't read about an earthquake in the second woe in Revelation 9:14-21. The earthquake in Revelation 11, btw, is in Jerusalem. A tenth of the city will fall, and 7,000 people die in it (apparently from the collapsing buildings). You are not understanding what the mighty angel was meaning - regarding the second woe is past the third woe comes quickly. He was meaning that John had been shown what the second woe would be (back in Revelation 9), and that John would soon be shown what the third woe would be (in Revelation 12).

No, the two witnesses don't initiate the second woe. Revelation 11:16 indicates the type of plagues that they initiate. The woes are not initiated by the two witnesses, but by the three last trumpet angels. Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. The world is not going to be celebrating the death of the two witnesses - at the same time as a third of mankind is being killed.

No, they do not die at the second woe. The text does not say they die as a result of the second woe. The second woe is a third of man-kind being killed by the 200,000,000 man army. Nothing in Revelation 11 about the two witnesses being involved with the 200,000,000 man army. ------------------------------ The world celebrates over the deaths of the two witnesses, exchanging presents with one another. Does that sound like a time when a third of mankind is being killed by a 200,000,000 man army ?

You don't have a comprehensive time line chart, nor a basic chart of the timeframes in Revelation - otherwise you would see that you interpretations do not fit.