crab3

Howdy howdy. I recently got this question as well, it was a little different though. "Why does God let all this evil into and stay in the world," is what she asked? It led to a 2 hr conversation and a sermon on evil. I think it comes down to the fact that man has turned from God for a long time, adding sin to sin (Isa 30 &31). I don't see how a person could look through history, or read the bible and wonder why evil things remain in the world. In short, I guess you could say that all these things happen because people look every where but to God during times of crisis, in times of peace, emergency, whatever; man doesn't have a good track record for turning to God for help. Its the same for us, as it relates to the garden. We are suffering because of someone eating an apple that they shouldn't have..... Its a hard question, that takes a long slow answer, and understanding hearts; to even get a hint of an answer.... And it does boil down to the fact that God's purposes are often beyond our understanding, and as His faithful we just have to take what we get sometimes.... peace Rick><> My answer goes along with hr.jr, his is a good post, mine kind of elaborated on his...

I don't see, in the near or far future, America as a country repenting. Abortion alone should be enough to make God not like us so much, in a way. There were gods back in the day that required a sacrifice of babies, in OT times, one of the baals. God didn't like that, why would he like what we are doing...... Point is though, America, as a nation, is not going to repent...... Its a nice thought though.... peace crabs><>

These other 'gods' are about as credible as well. This other 'gods' buisness needs no 'thinking about' to come to a conclusion. Don't question the real and true God, and leave it at that. Lets focus on his son.... crabs><>

The way your story sounds, it hits me like you are thinking at some point in our lives we stop sinning, this just isn't the case. Look at Paul in Romans saying that all sin and come short of the glory of God, he's talking about everyone, Jews and Gents alike. It is a change of heart, eventually the anger will die away, mine did, it takes time really. Its the fervency with which he despises the old self, and the fervency with which he loves the new creature he has become, because of Jesus. Its not that he isn't saved, its just that he has to pray about some things more often than others. I'd recommend listening to this sermon at www.mhbcmi.org Go over to the listen button, and find the sermons, you can dowload mp3's of them for free, look for the one titled, 'Whats it to you,' I learned a lot from it, there is a lot in there about accepting yourself...... peace crabs><>

To what extent, might I ask. Think about Paul and the Corinthians, he witnessed to them by actions, not words, why was that. Because at that time that area was full of pagan cults, and all kind of 'gods' that people had, ironically enough, some died and ascended three days later, some sat at the right hand of God, some died to save man, some were beaten and crucified. I dare say Satan won some souls by working through these 'gods,' have they got your attention in a similar way.... peace crabs><>

I talked with a preacher once who lives near a privately owned feild where once a year there is a witches convention, he says the music is so loud it thumps in his house, and its a good 3/4 miles away. He was talking about the music, and the question come up, if he believed that magic is a viable possibility. The only answer he would make is that he believes that Satan is capable of much, and that the danger isn't in the magic itself, or the spells or whatever, but the fact that they are not of God. When people get wrapped up in this stuff, they start saying yes to the world, and no to God. Look at ISA 30, after Israel trusts in the shadow of Egypt and pharoah, soon enough, they ask the prophets to lie to them, and ask the seers to see not, to finish up the request that 'the holy one of Israel cease from before them.' Its scary buisness, moving away from God.... peace crabs><>

Hey guys, Its not so much the fact that they are 'using magic,' but that they are trusting something not God, ('spirits'), to do something not of God ('magic'), its all fairy tale though and I agree with the demon explanation above. Cosider ISA 30, just replace Egypt and Pharoah with 'spirits' and 'magic,' it basically is a warning about not trusting God........ peace crabs><>

http://www.christiandiscussionforums.org/v...ead.php?t=24398 There is this to......

Very much agreed, people need to know that we all need Jesus, and why, but the love should be focused on, the rest is kind of details, or case by case basis..... crabs><>

I've read them, I've got all the narnia, lord of the rings, and HP books, and I've read them multiple times. Since becoming very much on fire for God/Jesus, two things have come to my attention, stumbling blocks, and lukewarmness. Both of which can be very bad for those around you. I make a point to let everyone know that both C.S. Lewis and Tolkein were two excellent Christian authors, and also that I am very much into Christ, not a single person around would think anything of it, if I were walking around with the Satanic bible, they would think I was studying to write a paper on it, so its how you present yourself really. As far as, 'if you have the time to read that, why not read the bible.' I honestly set aside time each night to read things specifically not bible, I'm reading The Hobbit right now. But that is because I spend so much time reading and writing articles about the teaching in the bible, that I need to relax and read something that I don't have to think about. I spend at least an hour everyday with my head between the covers of God's word, and I've spent close to 5 hours straight, taking notes and writing about the same. The stumbling block can come from this, think about drinking, as a believer, we know that 1 beer is 1 beer, and that its probably ok to have 1 beer, but to the unbeliever, they aren't going to know the difference between 1 beer and 10, they are going to see a christian drinking, this is why I havn't drank since becoming a christian. As well, they aren't going to see a christian reading a fantasy novel by a christian author, they are going to see a christian reading a fantasy novel, that is why when I do read these books, I do so normally at home, or around good friends or family that know where I stand. And the lukewarmness, if it takes your attention away from God, you run the risk of becoming lukewarm, luckily for me I am a part of something that requires my daily attention to the bible. But if to many times in a row you think, 'I'm burnt out on the bible, i'll just read this,' eventually Satan will use that to push the bible away totally. In short, be steadfast, search the scriptures daily, and be sure you're not 'being' a stumbling block peace crabs><>

Hey guys, I've been reading only for awhile, glad to participate again. This is an article I have written that I am opening up for debate/critique... thanks rick Isaiah 6:5,

for clarification, the word 'perfect,' is acually better translated 'complete,' or in context with the rest of 13:8-13, 'perfect' would better read 'mature,' tongues and prophecy are the immature form of communication God used to get info to us basically, the Bible is the mature form, because it is all He wants us to know, His word is now whole.

Butero, While i do believe that 'that which is perfect,' is the 'cannon of the Bible,' i have to point out that, 'that which is perfect' cannot be Jesus in this instance. if 'that which is perfect' is Jesus in this case, 1Cor 13:13 would not tell us that we need faith hope and love, if it were Jesus, Paul would tell us that we would only need love, for the other two will not be needed upon Jesus return. But since 'that which is perfect,' is not Jesus in this instance, we still need faith, and love. Hope we do not need anymore, because Jesus has come, saved us, and promised his return, should we follow him that is. crabs><>

Thank you Robert H, that was my point exactly, when he returns to take us home....~!!!!!!!

Love cannot fail because it is the only of the three in 1Cor 13:13 (love hope and faith), that we will need after Jesus returns. After Christ returns we will need faith no more, for He will be with us. After his sacrifice on the cross, we need hope no more, for He has promised His return. crabs><>

"germanjoy" I applaud your persistance, i really do, its almost enough for me to just say 'i believe you' based on your effort alone, but i can't do that. i went to Bible study last night, there are normally about 30 of us, our preacher is on a trip to marry the last of his sister's kids, so someone else took over. we were studying ISA, but he didn't want to step on the preachers toes, so he studied out of Mark, 'signs of the end times,' out of the 20 or so that showed up, 1 had a differing opinion. we study end times together, i study with my preacher as he is my father in law, we compare different theories about it, weigh the differences and such. except for little differences, most of the folks at the Bible study agree on most accounts, well last night we found out that the 1 among us has a totally different take on it all. she says she is taking the Bible literaly, but then she says that revelation has already happened, and that all we are waiting for is Jesus to come back. you could imagine how the rest of us felt, sitting here waiting for the end of the world, and she was telling us its not going to happen. she disagreed the whole time, 30 min of debate with her, in the end, walking out of the church, loudly talking to herself, she said that 'its ok yall got it so screwed up, some people just can't understand.' i think that is an extreme case, compared to this one, i think in this case its two people who firmly believe and are not willing to budge, i can clearly see, that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are no more. You can clearly see that they haven't stopped since Paul's day. you are not going to change my mind, i don't think i'm going to change yours. lets call it a day........ crabs><>

'nebula' i'm not taking you up on it, but its cool that you are putting yourself out there like that. a question though, if i were to take you up on it, are you confident that i'll understand what you are saying, or confident that if i was to record it, it would be a certain language, for example, the tongue of italian, or the tongue of russian ?? crabs><>

::::words in bold=Bible text::::::::: starting at 1Cor13:8 Unlike many of the spiritual gifts, love will never be outmoded, unnecessary, or eliminated. 8. Charity never faileth (Gr ekpipto, falls off, cf. Lk 16:17). Unlike the leaf or the flower, love neverfades and falls off (cf. jas 1:11; 1Pet 1:24). Prophecies, they shall fail (lit., 'be abolished'). Tongues, they shall cease. The significance of the Greek work(pauo) indicates that tongues would soon be 'cut off' as their necessity in the process of New Testament revelation ceased. It is important to note that tongues are never mentioned again in the New Testament after this warning. Knowledge, it shall vanish away ('be abolished'). This is the same word used in reference to prophecy above. This isnot knowledge in general but the 'gift' of knowledge by direct revelation (cf. 12:8; 13:2). 9-10. For suggests reason. We know in part, and we prophesy in part. Knowledge and prophecy as we now know it are suited ony to an imperfect state of existence. That which is perfect. This is best understood in light of 1 Corinthians 2:6, in the sense of 'mature' or 'complete' (cr. also Col 3:14; Heb 6:1). Conservative Bible scholars have proposed two main interpretations of Perfect. it may be a reference to the completion ofthe canon of Scripture, with which partial revelation (by knowledge, prphecy, or tongues) came to an end, culminating in a complete revelation of God's scripture or it may refer to the maturation of the body of Christ (in the sense of Ephesians 4:11-16). paul imploys the neuter because he does not contemplate an individual. Thus, that which is perfect cannot refer to the coming of Christ Himself. Then that which is in part will be done away with. Once the perfect has been achieved, there will be no need for that which is immature. It will not be needed or accepted and should not be desired. 12. Now we see through a glass, darkly (lit., 'for yet we see through a mirror in a riddle'). Paul seems to be alluding to the incident in Num12:8. On another occasion Paul says the writings were an enigma compared to the revelations contained in the gospel (cf. IICor 3:12-13). But then face to face. The apostle understands taht complete maturity will not be acheved until we see the Lord face to face. At that time we will not only achieve complete maturity but perfect knowledge. As Paul puts it, but then shall I know even as also I am known. The gifts are fragmentary and only a means to an end. Paul's advice is keep your eyes on the goal and not on the means towards achieving that goal. 13. And now abideth faith, hope, and charity. Now is bestnderstood in a temporal sense (cf. Rom 8:24; IICor 5:7; heb 11:1). If the present Christian experience were to be reduced to three essential qualities they would be faith, hope, and love. The greatest of these is charity. Faith and hope will one day vanish from sight. Love alone abides. its clarest expression is to be seen in Golgotha's hill. Thus paul's approach is not to decry the possible abuses at Corinth but to challenge them to something much better.

The following will be from the Nelson KJV Bible Commentary, ISBN 1-4185-0339-8

"nebula" if its not a language, it has to be gibberish, if it is a language, there would be someone there to interpret crabs ><>

AMEN, this person came seeking the knowledge and i believe he found what he was looking for. i think we could leave it at that........ food for thought, i asked my father in law, who's father is also a mason, and a lot of the older father figures in his life also (like me), why he had never considered joining. he told me that you can get the same from a good church. when someone asks me what the masons are or what they are about, i tell them a story. me, my brother and my dad once were somewhat far from home, in the winnebego going to go camping, my dad is a mason. we break down in the middle of no where, dad leaves me with my brother, goes to get parts, (car was with us, jsut passed parts store) comes back, can't get it going. we were there all day, night came, and someone came down the lane. i watched my dad talk to this man, 5 min later, they were shaking hands, 20 min later the guy was back with tow lines, we were in his truck, towing our camper to his house, we left it there for the night, took our car home, dad got more parts, we went back the next day and the guy helped him fix the camper. and thats the masons Jesus or no Jesus they are good guys, we need good guys around, need Jesus to get to heaven, no exceptions, they don't teach Jesus, but they are good people.....bottom line i think. crabs ><>

I have studied the Mason's, and they do TEACH religion. They teach that if you live a moral life, you'll go to heaven, but they don't even use the 'term' heaven. They say that if you live this life that God will meet you 'on the other side,' but they don't use the term God. what they say nothing about is that back in the day, God sent a man, that would be Jesus, to die for our sins, that Man said believe and be baptized to recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost and eternal salvation, ask a mason what they teach. they have omitted Jesus name from their prayers, they are even disrespectful enough to come to a mans funeral, burial, and pray for the man, without using Jesus name, the man in this instance was a devout christian, his son is a preacher, they do not pray in Jesus name. Honestly, and this is opinion, but after talking shop with the masons i am surrounded by, and there are many, about why i would never assosiate myself with their 'brotherhood,' it always seems to me that they are on the high horse. its in the black and white, chill out, and read the Book, i think that Matthew would be a good place for you to start, then go from there. crabs><> good guys they may be, christians, as a group, they are not...

I agree as well, that God wouldn't put us through all that. though (lacking exact scripture) it says that He will spare us from His wrath, the part in revelation where it is silent on earth and in heaven before the pouring out of his wrath, i'm of a mind that that is when we will go. I know i have no scripture to back all this, i never write it down when the debate comes up with my religious debaters here at home. maybe someone will add it before i find it. crabs><>

also, as far as, 'during the last days, your ....... shall prophecy.......' first off, the two witnesses are a totally different case, we know thats coming, and it doesn't apply here, second, while i do agree that we are in the 'last days,' what does the Bible define as the last days, last time i looked, not temple had been rebuilt, last time i looked russia had yet to attack isreal, no Jesus in the sky, i'm not talking tribulation, i'm talking now

germanjoy, i am not meaning when John documented revelation, think not of his writing it, but of his recieving it. once God had got the information to him, he needed to give not another single word of information to mankind, revelation was the last. also, you don't beleive that the Bible is whole, i think many here, i among them would strongly disagree with you. God definately had a hand in the compilation of the Book. remember 'do not add or take away,' are you implying that someone should have, or that someone may do so yet. also, you kind of have to forget all the titles of the bible. it wasn't like God was casting lots for the Book, 'ok moses, you got the first two books, then later, you four document His life, after that Paul, how bout you put in some of your letters, then i'll give the revelation to John and we'll call it a day.....' the titles, i.e. corinthians, genesis, revelation, were added later for simplicity sake, the same with the chapters broken up like they are. so yea, i'm not talking about the completion of a Book, or the finish of the compilation of the same, i'm talking about the last word recieved from God, in roughly 90a.d. God gave John the last bit of information he needed to. something else to consider, how many times after Corinthians do you hear the term tongues mentioned........ crabs><>