Montana Marv

BB You stated above: Quote: Well, I see where you have made one of your mistakes Daniel, an easy one to make. It is the week that is a seven, not the covenant. The covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned. Only that Messiah will confirm it during the one week. Messiah causes sacrifice and oblation to cease at the halfway point of the 70th week. How? By his atoning death and subsequent resurrection. The sacrifices and oblations no longer are efficacious (effective against sin) because the actual has come to replace forever the type and shadow. You state that the covenant's length and purpose are not mentioned, YET, you say HOW; By his atoning death and resurrection. (Which is the Purpose) If it's purpose is not given, How do you back up what you said. There is no Scriptural evidence that Christ made any covenant immediately after His Baptism, and thus 3 1/2 years later he died. And thus one cannot tie Christ to the "He shall confirm a covenant", it is not there. You also state the the covenants length is not mentioned; But then you say that it is to Replace Forever. You are contridicting yourself. Scripture says: he shall confrim a covenant with may FOR (how long) One Seven. The two are tied together. This "he" does not refer to Christ, for He made no such covenant. Then if He did, which part of His ministry did He make it and what specific Scripture will back up this covenant. For it better fall within your timeline. In Christ Montana Marv

If Prophecy is really from God; deliver it. No discernment is needed on your part. You are just a vessel for the delivery; You are not to judge/discern your own prophecy. It is the one who hears these words who must discern if it is from God or not and maybe put it into action. Prophecy must only be given to believers. Tongues is a sign to non believers. In Christ Montana Marv

jb The time of the Rapture is NOT revealed in Scripture. No one knows the day or hour of the coming of the Bridegroom for His Bride. (Matt 25: 1-13). So those coming out of the Great Tribulation must be someone else (those who did not worship the beast or receive his mark) and not the Church/Bride. In Christ Montana Marv

i have the gift of prophesy. God has told me what is to come, He has revealed to me the Mysteries of the Bible, opened up my understanding of them. One will know they have the gift of prophesy when God reveals to them what is to come. ^i^ God told John in Rev 1:19 - Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now, and what will take place later. I would believe that your gift of prophecy is not all from God. This would be confirmed in what you have written is some of your other posts. In Christ Montana Marv

Again another false theory. Why does Christ need to rule with a "rod of iron" over the 144,000? Those who are ushered into the Mill are from every nation, every tribe and every lanuage. That suggests many from all the nations, many are ungodly. The righteous have no need to be ruled with a "rod of iron". In Christ Montana Marv

Amen In Christ Montana Marv

BB Your statement from above post: Quote: After a little research, it appears that modern anatomy considers the head and neck together. Since modern medicine is derived from the ancients, the chances are reasonable that the ancient world considered the matter likewise...HOWEVER... Modern anatomy does not consider the head and neck together. Where did you come up with that flawed view. The head is comprised of the cranium/skull and the jaw, and those only. The upper neck is top of the spine. The upper neck is where the head rests. The spine is considered as one and is comprise of 33 units C1 through and including the tip of the coxcus.A head wound is an injury to the skull or cranium. Unless you have read Gray's Anatomy from cover to cover, I would totallly disregard your false information. Also Modern medicine is not an off shoot of the ancients. In Christ Montana Marv

No, Jesus was with him in paradise during part of the three days he was in the grave...... when he was resurrected he then went up to the Father I do love that scripture though for he calls the Father his God even after his resurrection. other one Christ did not assend up into Heaven until His assension 40 days after His Resurrection. Eph 4:8 - When he ascended on high, He led captives in his train and gave gifts unto men. Matt 12:40 - As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the hugh fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Paradise was in the heart of the earth. In Christ Montana Marv

We know however that the Beast was Rome, the last of Daniel's four beasts. Rome is personified by Nero (who died of a head wound...Chapter 13 of Rev). The False Prophet was the Sanhedrin, personified by the High Priest and his cronies. It is they who were cast in to Ge-enna. Bold Nero commited suicide. He died and did no come back from death. One does not see the Sanhedrin preforming miraculous signs. Rev 13:13 - 17 -- And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. He ortdered them (the inhabitants of the earth) to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He the false prophet was given power to give breathe to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead. The Sanhedrin did none of these things. Nero was not cast alive into the Lake of Fire. You have no Scriptual basis or Historical evedience for your theory. In Christ Montana Marv

Rev 19:2- - and the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his bejalf. With these signs he deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the firey lake of burning sulfur. Rev 13 describes both the beast and the false prophet. Both are individuals, both were cast alive into the Lake of Fire. In Christ Montana Marv

Gary So if that day is almost upon us, what is our big suprise. Being caught up will be no suprise (we either go up first having already died, or meet those who have died before us in the air to meet Jesus), but when does the Bridegroom come? Only the Father knows? So its timing is not revealed in Scripture. Can the Rapture happen tomorrow, or the following day? Is the Rapture imminent? In Christ Montana Marv What's the surprise? It seems that the 'day' or the 'hour' is the surprise as that is what we cannot know. There are definite things that must come to pass before the rapture takes place, if I am not mistaken, so we do have to wait for certain scriptures to be fulfilled. I don't believe it is imminent. Gary Gary One thing that needs to take place is the "Apostasy" 2 Thes 2:3. This is described more in 1 Tim 4:1-3. - v3 - They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods. We need to know who the "they" are. Once this is being taught in the church or even outside of the church, we will know the the time is right at the door for the removal of the Bride. I have no idea, but does anyone know if this teaching is being taught, (infancy). I know that forbiding people to marry already exists in the Catholic Church, for their leaders. So really, this apostasy is already at work today, just not full blown. In Christ Montana Marv

Gary So if that day is almost upon us, what is our big suprise. Being caught up will be no suprise (we either go up first having already died, or meet those who have died before us in the air to meet Jesus), but when does the Bridegroom come? Only the Father knows? So its timing is not revealed in Scripture. Can the Rapture happen tomorrow, or the following day? Is the Rapture imminent? In Christ Montana Marv

WW From Adam Clark Commentery; 1 Corinthians 15:52 1Co 15:52 Verse 52. In a moment] en atomw. In an atom; that is, an indivisible point of time. In the twinkling of an eye; as soon as a man can wink; which expressions show that this mighty work is to be done by the almighty power of God, as he does all his works, He calls, and it is done. The resurrection of all the dead, from the foundation of the world to that time, and the change of all the living then upon earth, shall be the work of a single moment. At the last trump] This, as well as all the rest of the peculiar phraseology of this chapter, is merely Jewish, and we must go to the Jewish writers to know what is intended. On this subject, the rabbins use the very same expression. Thus Rabbi Akiba: "How shall the holy blessed God raise the dead? We are taught that God has a trumpet a thousand ells long, according to the ell of God: this trumpet he shall blow, so that the sound of it shall extend from one extremity of the earth to the other. At the first blast the earth shall be shaken; at the second, the dust shall be separated; at the third, the bones shall be gathered together; at the fourth, the members shall wax warm; at the fifth, the heads shall be covered with skin; at the sixth, the souls shall be rejoined to their bodies; at the seventh, all shall revive and stand clothed." See Wetstein. This tradition shows us what we are to understand by the last trump of the apostle; it is the seventh of Rab. Akiba, when the dead shall be all raised, and, being clothed upon with their eternal vehicles, they shall be ready to appear before the judgment seat of God. For the trumpet shall sound] By this the apostle confirms the substance of the tradition, there shall be the sound of a trumpet on this great day; and this other scriptures teach: see Zec 9:14; Mt 24:31; Joh 5:25; 1Th 4:16, in which latter place, the apostle treats this subject among the Thessalonians, as he does here among the Corinthians. See the notes there. Shall be raised incorruptible] Fully clothed with a new body, to die no more. We shall be changed.] That is, those who shall then be found alive. Just a different slant. "At the Last Trump" it is Jewish. But the Last Trump Of vs 50-55 is Post Mill, not Pre Mill. When do all the "Just" who were born during the Mill receive their eternal bodies? When is death swollowed up in Victory? Not until the Bema seat of Christ when we receive our rewards. Post Mill there is still death after Satan is released to deceive the nations for a final time. Death cannot be swollowed up in Victory until there is no more death. Which is Post Mill. In Christ Montana Marv

Convenient how you skip vs. 26. This is why it is dangerous to condense a text or summarize points. Have you considered why the 69 sevens are broken down into two segments of 7 sevens and 62 sevens? What happened at the 7 sevens point? I also reject your choice to use the NIV for these verses. It is just WRONG to say "on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation!" THOSE WORDS ARE NOT THERE IN HEBREW!!! Yes, the 70 sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens UNTIL the 70th seven! Then, just as you quoted, "In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering." This DOES split and divide the last seven into two separate parts! It is also YESHUA`S DOING! There isn't a "gap" between the 69th and the 70th seven, as many want to believe; YESHUA` HIMSELF put the gap between the first 69.5 sevens and the last 0.5 seven when he left them DESOLATE!!! However, Yeshua` did not CAUSE the gap; the JEWS did when they rejected Him as God's Messiah, God's Anointed, to be King! That first half of the 70th seven was the 3.5 years of Yeshua`s "earthly ministry," when He offered the Kingdom to the Jews, His own tribe! If you want to keep the whole seven together as a unit, you would have to accept the Preterist point of view, but I won't. He won't try again until they welcome Him back as God's Anointed (Matthew 23:37-39; Psalm 118:22-26). During THOSE 3.5 years, Yeshua` will not only offer the Kingdom again to the Jews, but He will also fight for Isra'el as they are attacked by bullying, neighboring countries, most likely including Egypt and Iran. Roy It was convenient; for I was looking only at the verses which contained sevens (70 sevens are decreeded) or multiples of sevens. V. 26 was a confirmaion of v 25. All the verses are whole weeks. Therefore the ONE SEVEN in verse 27 is seven contineous years. No split, No seperation. In Football (American), the 50 yard line is midway; it is halfway from the beginning and halfway from the end. It is the midpoint between two points. Split the turf along the 50 yard line and seperated the two, one no longer has a complete playing field. The same with the one seven, if split in two and seperated by time, it no longer becomes a full or complete One Seven. Then Daniels 70 - Sevens are no longer 70, but 69 sevens and two half sevens. Daniels's 70 - Sevens do not support what you trying to convence us of. You have no proof that Jesus Christ's ministry lasted exactly 1,260 days or 3 and 1/2 years. No Biblical evidence to support your theory. I would like to know what half your age is at any particular time in your life? And then was that time split and divided. So either this last One Seven is past and fulfilled, Or this last One Seven is still in our future. BTW, Dan 9:26 states that after the 62 Sevens the Anointed One will be cut off (or killed). It is a marker stating when the end of the 62 Sevens is. No mention is given when the onset of the final One Seven is. Only that it starts with the beginning of a seven year covenant, treaty with many. Christ made no such seven year covenant or treaty. If already complete, then Israel has been restored to glory and is living in total peace. (Which is not the Case). In Christ Montana Marv

The lion will eat straw like the ox. In Christ Montana Marv

Isa 11:6 - 9 -- the wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the vipors nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea. Wow, the earth will be full of the knowledge of the Lord. In Christ Montana Marv

2 Thes 2:1-4 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you brothers, do not become uneasily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, so the he sets himself up in God's temple proclaiming himself to be God. v.9,10a - The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, sighn and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. Peter, you have missed two very important points; 1. Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. and 2; our being gathered to Him. So I am not alarmed or unsettled by some false report that teaches the Day of the Lord has already come. You need to, beyond a shadow of a doubt, reveal who the lawless one was/is, and what wonders and signs and counterfeit miricales he performed. Be careful for Titus was only a general under Nero, and Nero never set is feet in Israel. And don't try to reveal that Satan set himself up in the Disciples Hearts/Temple. In Christ Montana Marv

Roy Daniel 9:24 - Seventy - sevens are decreed. v.25 - Know and understand this; from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Annointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven sevens and sixty two sevens (69 sevens) v. 27 - He will confirm a covenant with many for "one seven", In the middle of the seven (half way into the one seven), he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him/it. Go to Dan 12:11-13 - From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that cause desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days; Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days. As for you (Daniel), go your way till the end. You will rest, and then at the end of these days you will rise up to receive your alloted inheritance. The 70 - sevens are all mentioned as whole sevens. 7 - sevens, 62 - sevens, and 1 - seven. Absolutley no mention of a seven being split and divided into two seperate parts. Scripture says in the middle of the seven (one seven). A one seven is 7 contineous years. In Christ Montana Marv

Matt 10:23 - You will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes. This is an open ended question. You will not finish, before the Son of Man comes. The question is not that they will finish, then the Son of Man comes. Now compare with Matt 24:14 - And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations and then the end will come. The end will come after the gospel is preached to all nations. It is interesting that there are more nations or subnations being formed all the time now. So this verse cannot be completed until these "all nations" are done being formed. Now to Matt 23:36 and Matt 24:34. These are two seperate generations. Matt 23 does infer to "this/that generation" of the 1st century. But Matt 24:34 refers to a different generation. It is the generation who sees all these things happening. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, Nation will rise up against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, there will be famines and earthquakes in various places, All these are the beginning of birth pains. It is the "this generation" who sees these things all happening which is the generation who is living at the time of the end. Rome was never conqured. It's government was assymulated into or formed into the Catholic church. In Christ Montana Marv

PGA If Christ has come (the Second Coming). Why does Christ need you as His witness. Did ALL mourn at the Second Coming; Did all see Him arrive. WHY did not Rome follow Him??? Is Satan still active today. If he is, then Christ is still allowing him (Satan) to deceive. If there are two spiritual entities exsisting (Satan and Christ), then Christ is not reigning, and He is not the olny LORD here on earth. You have no evidence... Christ's Second Coming is still in our future. In Christ Montana Marv

Peter Where is Christ's Second Coming. If Christ Came; Why did Rome continue to rule till about 350 AD. You serve a weak Jesus Christ. Satan still influences individuals. A Secret Second Coming which no one saw. 1,000 years is 1,000 years. Jesus Christ setting His feet on the Mt. of Olives is what Scripture says. Your three sources were very weak indeed. Did Jesus really wash the Disciples feet, or was this an allegory that Christians must be clean. Did Christ really assend up into Heaven. Is there a Heaven. Is there a Lake of Fire as Scripture says. The Perterest position is totally ridiculous. The manufactuers of that beleif are not even in the ballpark. Christ becomes a weak God, Satan still abounds. There are too many "On that Day" in Zech that put a cabush on what you are peddling. The perterst delves in to much story telling, which takes away from what is really being said. In Christ Montana Marv

Yes, I do it in remembrance of what He has done for me until He comes to take me. I do it to remember how He suffered and gave His live for a sinner, how His blood/life cleanses believers from all sin, how He paid the price that I could not pay! Peter Peter I see you added a few words. "until he comes to take me" Scripture says -- I Cor 13:26 - For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup you proclaim the Lord's Death until He Comes. Matt 26:29 - I will not drink of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink anew with you in My Fathers Kingdom. That day is referred in Matt 13:39 - The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are the angels. This is why I say that those who believe in the 70 AD Parousia are in error. If His Coming was in 70 AD, Communion becomes meaningless. But, if His Coming is still yet in our future, then communion is not meaningless. In Christ Montana Marv

Peter Do you still take Communion? In Christ Montana Marv

Peter Your question here is not reasonable: I need some time to work this out. (Thinking out loud) With true Israel, the Israel of God, those circumcised by the Spirit that are part of the spiritual temple and the everlasting kingdom it has happened. To that house, comprised of both Jewish Christians and Gentile Christians, it has happened. Can you give me any evidence that OT Israel still exists as a nation with reference to their temple or rituals and that they can still meet ever jot and tittle of the Law (Matthew 5:17-18)? If you can't then it must have happened. Peter Your two sources in post #89 are totally inaccurate. First of all your source states that two different events are simialiar, then if they are similar they must be the same. This is not a scientfically or mathmatically correct assumption. It is based on bias. The temple was destroyed in 70 AD, The Holy of Holies opened up in 33 AD at Christs Death. The thing is OT Israel was dispersed into captivity from about 66 AD to after 73 AD. They ceased to be a nation. Now Ezk 37 comes into play; The reformation of Israel in their land. This happened in 1948. Abramhamic Covenant: Gen 17:8 - The whole land of Canaan, where you are now an alien, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you, and I will be their God. It doesn't say that they will always follow. This same covenant was given to Issac and Jacob. OT Isreal NEVER always had a temple, it was built by Soloman. Again you have no factual basis for your beliefs. Who says your allegorical interpretations are correct. Was Jesus allegorically born of a Virgin, or is the Virgin Birth a Fact. Did Jesus allegorically assended from the Mt of Olives, or is it a fact. Will Jesus allegorically decend to the Mt of Olives, or is it a Fact. I like to deal with Facts, not Fiction. Jesus did not come back in 70 AD. No one saw Him. Why did not all follow Him when He returned as Scripture says. Why did not all the Nations mourn. The descripition of "your Second Coming of Jesus" is very weak. A Secret Second Coming with no one noticing. You are following the wrong crowd. The Third Temple is yet to be rebuilt. Titus did not proclaim to be God, for Ceaser was his god. In Christ Montana Marv

Peter His First Coming was Physical. His Second Coming will be Physical. It all hangs on Acts 1;9-11 - After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. "Men of Galille", they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky", "This same Jesus who has been taken from you into heaven will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven". Jesus went up, and Jesus will return in the same way He went up into heaven. Zech 14:4 - On that day his feet will stand on the Mt of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mt of Olives will split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half the mountain moving north and half moving south. ... v5b - Then the Lord my God will come and all the holy ones with him. Yes it is Scriptural. His Second Coming will be a Physical Second Coming; His feet will touch the Mt of Olives. Ezk 43:7 - Son of Man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelies forever. The house of Israel will never again defile my holy name. Peter, has this happened. Is the house Israel true to the Lord. In Christ Montana Marv