NTMicaiah

Excellent list of verses about this! Thanks

The vote optons don't really give a spot that represents my views. The way I understand the 5 points I generally agree with them. The idea of limited atonement seems only half true from the Scriptures. While Christ died for the world, He moreso died for the chosen. He loved the Assembly and gave Himself for her.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (NASB95) 1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.

I think this is an important and an interesting subject. Peter spoke of his mortal body like it was a tabernacle or tent and his future body like it was a temple (i.e. temporary spirit home and permanent spirit home.) Paul said absent from the body, present with the LORD. He desired to depart (die) and be present with the LORD which he said was "better by far." I don't think he was describing sleep in this way, although sleep is a nice blessing, it's not all that great I cannot find any evidence in the Bible that the lost man's spirit is immortal. Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob are alive currently (they were when the Messiah was on earth even though their bodies weren't resurrected yet.) God is God of the living not God of the dead. Praise God that He gives His children eternal life! NTMicaiah

I once saw a quote on the desk of a military man I was visiting that said "Closed mindedness is mental death". I appreciate that thought. I think there is a lot of wisdom to it. May God bless us with wisdom, NTMicaiah

Speaking the truth in love...what a challenge that is!!! Thank you all for this topic and for your responses to it, you blessed my day with it. The Word of God tells us that Life and death are in the power of the tongue. The Scripture also tells us that our words can be so hurtful to others that they are like the piercings of a sword. May God teach me sweetness of speech! NTMicaiah

Does God love everyone? Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated. God is love. Judgment is God's peculiar work. God said, "All day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and stiff necked people." It seems to me that God would have been perfectly just to have let all the world go to the Lake of Fire. In His precious grace and mercy He has lifted many millions from the filth of sin and has in fact betrothed Himself to them so that they can enjoy the most amazing 'happily ever after' that there has ever been!!! We are told that our love for our family and our own life is to be like hate (paraphase ) when compared to our love for God. The LORD is good to all, and His tender mercies are over all His works. Perhaps God does love everyone (it is His nature) but He doesn't love everyone equally and love is not His only attribute...His love is perfectly righteous and His righteousness is perfectly loving. "We beheld His glory, full of grace and truth! God bless all of my eternal brothers and sisters that read this! NTMicaiah

Israel and the rapture - this is an interesting topic. Romans 11:15 seems to me to be saying that what happens to Israel affects the whole world in a huge way. When Israel rejected Messiah God sent salvation to the ends of the earth. I believe that Jesus will return at the end of a seven year tribulation and that those already saved, both completed Jew and former gentile, will meet Him in the air. Then I believe that as Jesus continues down, in the company of those already saved, that all the remnant of Israel still living on earth will become believers and will live on the earth at the start of the millenium. "The child shall die one hundred years old" during the millenium. May God put it upon our hearts to walk worthy of the calling we have received, with all lowliness and gentleness, NTMicaiah

The American Heritage Dictionary (I just pulled it off of the shelf) defines missile as, "Any object or weapon that is fired, thrown, dropped, or otherwise projected at a target; projectile." I wasn't meaning to suggest some type of modern, man-made weaponry.

We are told of one of the four horsemen of the Apocalypse having a bow and going forth to conquer. The comments that have been made put me in mind of someone saying that a soldier is going to go out with a gun and be very effective in battle and then having people conclude that we do not know whether he took bullets with him. Could the Bible be using an economy of words here? If John had written everything Jesus did the world could not contain all of the books. God has carefully and selectively given us an abundance of precious things in His word. If God sends forth someone to war, we can be sure that He is able to arm them superbly. I would be inclined to think that this bow indeed will function and launch some powerful missiles unless clear scriptural reasons could be shown to indicate otherwise. May God be glorified and may we treat one another in a pleasant and dignified way, NTMicaiah

Yod, Could I ask you a few questions? The promises associated with what the 70 weeks of Daniel accomplish and 7 years of triublation (2 sets of 1260 days) seem to make excellent sense to me. Do you belive in a literal 1,000 year millenium? Do you believe the things in the book of Revelation are true? Why does God promise a blessing upon reading it? Are the 5 months of scorpion like stinging literal? Have they been fulfilled already, and if so, how? I look forward to hearing from you, NTMicaiah

Is it the wrath that you see starting in Rev. 6? If so how do account for the scriptures further on in Rev. that show the elect still here? In Rev. 18 we have judgment on Babylon the great, which is the wrath of God. It is also the time the righteous and wicked get their rewards. God sends His angels to serve His will, we read everywhere in Rev. that angels are doing these things, of course its by His power alone that anything is done. I see things happening on a time line, wrapped up in the fall feast, I believe, are the ways to understand the end of the age. Not saying I know more than anyone else so please dont think that. I have come to see the whole plan of God wrapped up in the feasts, its truly interesting to read prophecy from a hebraic way of thinking. But I don't take myself too seriously regarding it all its interesting to talk about it all isnt it though. shalom, Mizz I believe when Paul spoke of being "caught up", this event will be sometime toward the very end of the tribulation, if not at the very end. I also believe that we will be protected through Gods wrath, not taken out of it. I can think of no better testimony of His love and protection for His people then this. I am not familiar with the festivals as most are, so I do not know when it will begin or end. I have been studying the sequence of how things appear to come about. I too enjoy discussing the end time events, though I will be among the first to admit that I don't hold all the answers. I can only go as scripture leads me. God Bless Sis. The Bible speaks of people who are in darkness and who times will overtake as a thief in the night. The Bible also speaks of believers as not being in this category. The times will not overtake us as a thief in the night because we have the program. When you go somewhere and they call out "Programs, get your Programs here" a person can purchase a program and know more about what is going on. Are we sure that when the Bible says that all are fleeing from the wrath of God that it means all people without exception? When the Bible tells us that everyone went out to be baptized by John are we to conclude that 100% of the people, every single human being in that area went and was baptized? I look forward to hearing your thoughts, NTMicaiah Are you addressing my post(s)? If so, please point out where I addressed what you are addressing in your reply. I am having a hard time following your reply from what I posted. The verses you mentioned speak of "every slave and every free man" fleeing from God's wrath. Someone asked about how the elect could still be there and mentioned being protected through God's wrath, not taken out of it. I am trying to add some things that I hoped would relate to this and would hopefully shed some light on the matter.

Is it the wrath that you see starting in Rev. 6? If so how do account for the scriptures further on in Rev. that show the elect still here? In Rev. 18 we have judgment on Babylon the great, which is the wrath of God. It is also the time the righteous and wicked get their rewards. God sends His angels to serve His will, we read everywhere in Rev. that angels are doing these things, of course its by His power alone that anything is done. I see things happening on a time line, wrapped up in the fall feast, I believe, are the ways to understand the end of the age. Not saying I know more than anyone else so please dont think that. I have come to see the whole plan of God wrapped up in the feasts, its truly interesting to read prophecy from a hebraic way of thinking. But I don't take myself too seriously regarding it all its interesting to talk about it all isnt it though. shalom, Mizz I believe when Paul spoke of being "caught up", this event will be sometime toward the very end of the tribulation, if not at the very end. I also believe that we will be protected through Gods wrath, not taken out of it. I can think of no better testimony of His love and protection for His people then this. I am not familiar with the festivals as most are, so I do not know when it will begin or end. I have been studying the sequence of how things appear to come about. I too enjoy discussing the end time events, though I will be among the first to admit that I don't hold all the answers. I can only go as scripture leads me. God Bless Sis. The Bible speaks of people who are in darkness and who times will overtake as a thief in the night. The Bible also speaks of believers as not being in this category. The times will not overtake us as a thief in the night because we have the program. When you go somewhere and they call out "Programs, get your Programs here" a person can purchase a program and know more about what is going on. Are we sure that when the Bible says that all are fleeing from the wrath of God that it means all people without exception? When the Bible tells us that everyone went out to be baptized by John are we to conclude that 100% of the people, every single human being in that area went and was baptized? I look forward to hearing your thoughts, NTMicaiah

You did not answer the question, so I will try again: Since you believe that the Church will have to go through the Tribulation, please show me where we, as believers, are ever subjected to God's wrath. While God poured out wrath on Egypt one section of the land was spared from it, the sections where His people were. Among them not even a dog barked. One noteworthy parallel is that, during the tribulation, scorpions will sting those who are not sealed. Perhaps the main thing that saved people will endure during the tribulation period is the wrath of man. Perhaps most of God's people will have been slaughtered by the lost before the middle of the tribulation. God gives the lost blood to drink because they liked shedding it so well. There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil. Since this was promised in the first century, how will it be fulfilled upon those who are not on earth during the tribulation period? It will be fulfilled in the Lake of Fire.