Anne

He just couldn't get along with Paul. Peace, Dave Good point. Yeah, Excellent point Matthitjah! A classic case of 'didn't practice what he preached'! Maybe he was having a grouchy day that day

Well, this is not exactly an "update" as now it is about six weeks old, July. I found the link to it on my email, my sister sent it, and I suspect that it has been there a while as I haven't checked my email for some time as we all share the folder and it gets so junky with my son's emails about cars and all sorts of motor vehicles and "logging news" and my husband's emails about famous battles and electronic catelogues etc. But: http://www.itnews.com.au/newsstory.aspx?CIaNID=34946 thank you buck

don't worry rose they'll calm down in a minute once they've exhausted the entire known fruit supply.

uh huh? And about 3 seconds after you die you'll have changed your tune John, imagine that! First question, why do you refer to Heaven as imaginary, what proof do you present for this conclusion? Anne

I used to watch this man in absolute amazement, sorry to hear of his death. Praying for his family.

The Spirit of God wants to minister Christ's death to us and lead us by way of that death up to the Throne, so that we might share the Lord Jesus even in the rugged events of everyday life. It is only as the Holy Spirit is able to work within us that He has opportunity to work through us. Just as He gave power to the disciples to witness of Christ first in Jerusalem and then in Judaea, Samaria and the uttermost part of the earth, just so does He want to put us in the place where we can be a radiating center for Christ to all parts of the earth. It is a world ministry He has in view for each one of us, not merely a local one. The commission to preach the gospel to the whole world, to every human being applies to us. This illustration may help our understanding. Here is a young man at twenty one years of age. His father says to him, "Son, what are you going to do for the future? Have you a plan for your life?" Now, the young man has lived all of his life on a farm. He knows the countryside well and the needs of his community. He says, "Father, for some years I have been thinking it would be a good idea if I built a store at the crossroads and stocked it with the kind of goods our neighbours around here can use. I think I can be a help to them in this way." The father smiles and says, "A chip off the old block! You have a good head on you. I think I know what to do. I have a friend in the city, the general manager of a large wholesale store. His company carries a wide range of goods and has the very things you say you will need. I will take this matter up with him, and see if he can help you get established." So the father contacts this friend who proves to be very warm to the idea. He promises that his company will build a store and stock the shelves from their warehouses. He also promises that his company will back the young man for the present and into the future providing he signs a contract to the effect that this one wholesale house will be his sole source for supplies. Each month the young man is to be contacted by the company's agent, kept informed of the goods available, and advised as to how to best carry on his work. The basic requirement of the wholesaler is that the young man cooperate with the agent all the way through. The store is built, the shelves are stocked, and the business is a success. From time to time the agent comes, and the young man cooperates fully with him. The public is highly satisfied. But then, various people from the vicinity pat the young man on the back, saying something along the lines of this "You are the young man we have been looking for all these years. You have a good business head on you and you are doing well." But this soon builds up pride in the young man's heart. The next time the agent comes, the storekeeper shows a self-assertive and uncooperative attitude which becomes worse with each successive visit. The problem is that the young man is saying to himself, "I am Number One here. The secret of success lies with me. It is to my credit that sales have boomed." He, of course, is very foolish. He does not realize that he is successful only to the extent he cooperates with the agent. However, so unresponsive has the young man become that the agent can no longer work with him. This means no more goods and no further credit. The young man faces bankruptcy. Only through the agent and his company can the flow of goods continue. The storekeeper has foolishly dried up his resources. There is an entire book in the New Testament written on this very subject. It tells of how some of God's children started the Christian life under the ministry of the Holy Spirit, and then turned from Him to the flesh to complete the work of redemption in their lifes and on their terms. The Book of Galatians tells of this story. The moment we turn from the Spirit of God we are faced with spiritual bankruptcy. We are shut up to the human plane only while God has made us for a supernatural experience and ministry. This latter can be realized only through our being sensitive to the dealing of the Holy Spirit in our daily lives. God grant that we shall not disregard this Heavenly Agent, but lean entirely upon Him so that Christ may be ministered through our hearts to a needy world.

Just for clarification the Buddist and atheist are two people I work with and the backslider is a young college student, non of which are dood.

Okay guys, I think this thread has run it's course, certainly my original question has been answered, throughout his thread I have noticed that one thing is constant, we are not being the example that we should be to others (that includes myself). I think what has been shown here, is that our daily lives is the best witness for Christ, and if our daily lives do not reflect the teachings of our Saviour (this is something i'm going to have to address in my own life), then maybe it is best not to speak a word. So an update on the atheist, buddist and the backslider, that I have mentioned previously. The atheist and buddist are leaving and moving on to pastures greener (or so they think), I tried folks but it's gonna take a stronger person than me to get through to those two. As for the backslider, well he's decided to return to church and i'm hoping to Jesus, keep him in your prayers folks. God Bless you all and thank you for not turning this thread into a war zone. Your Sister in Christ Jesus Anne

I'm totally and utterly lost now! A few posts ago, I had a vague idea of what the debate was about - now - I can't even remember what we were discussing before! I'm not quite sure what the problem with 'hope' is?! I am the only one who understands what dood is asking Alright, it would appear that we are all in need of some nourishment, as redeemed suggested, so trib you do the food run, I'll have a big Mac with fries and a coffee, ooooh and supersize me please!!!!!! If you guys are not following this thread, now that the doodster is gone , unless anyone has anything they'd like to add, how about we close it? After I get my Big Mac!!!!!

Aah, go to the dentist you must praying I will be That sense you will soon see The dentist is the place for yee

Thank you trib, for the compliment however, the writings come from a gentleman called Neville Horn, so I can't take credit for any of it except the sore hands I get from typing it out....... ......... I have changed just a few wee words, to make it more relevant to here, but nothing major. Anyway, on with the next bit, which i've expect i'll have to split into sections as its rather long, but this is the last in the series of "The personality of the Holy Spirit", deep breath.................. WHAT DOES THE SPIRIT WANT/THE GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT Two great statements in the New Testament indicate clearly to us the ministry of the Holy Spirit. First of all there is His work within the believer's heart. In Galatians 5 v 22 we read:- The fruit of the Spirit is LOVE, PEACE, LONGSUFFERING, GENTLENESS, GOODNESS, FAITH, MEEKNESS, TEMPERANCE." Now all of these words are words which describe Jesus Christ himself. The Spirit was to glorify the Lord and was to take the things of Christ and reveal them to us. Consequently, the Holy Spirit works within us before He works through us. His purpose is to make us inwardly like the Lord Jesus. We read in Ephesians 1 v 4 how we have been chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world so that we should be holy and without blame before God in love. That is simply another way of saying God wants us to be like His Son. How many of us are missing these gifts of the Holy Spirit? Can you honestly say that you have sought these gifts above all else? Think about it before you dismiss it out of hand: Do you LOVE your enemy? Is there PEACE in your life? Are you LONGSUFFERING towards others who repeatedly attempt to offend you? When you seek to confront someone do you chastise their errors with GENTLENESS? Do you seek to achieve GOODNESS in all that you do? How stands your FAITH in God, do you trust Him in all matters? Blessed are the MEEK, that's what the Bible says, are you blessed in this point? And what about that TEMPERANCE, are you of a violatile disposition? These are the gifts of the Holy Spirit, and we should seek to attain each and every one of them! Now we cannot do this ourselves. It is the work of the Holy Spirit, a work which He does within us on the basis of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection and our identification with Him in these. The Holy Spirit always operates on the basis of Christ's work for us. The Spirit of God has come to make us like Christ in order that we might share in His love, His patience, His humility, His purity, and His wisdom. All these gifts are ours in Christ. These are the signs by which the Christian lives their day to day life and by which you shall know them. God Bless

make sure you do dood, though I still wish you would stay

Just incase you zoom off into cyberspace on me dood, I want to post the answer to the most important point you made. What does hope have to do with turning to Christ??? My answer: Remember what I said hope was? Hope is the knowledge of Jesus, you remember that bit? Jesus said He came into the world to give knowledge of salvation. The hope that we were subjected to from the beginning was the knowledge of Jesus Christ, do you understand what I mean? I wish you could stick around for longer, that is such an inadequate answer, but it is brief and to the point. As for the other points, i'm getting to them..........eventually

Having just read your replies dood, I think i'll be grabbing that coffee Lady G mentioned

Anne I'll quickly reply to you before I'm out. I did say I would. I brought up the tree of good and evil to see what lights would be shed on it. then i brought up hope. if you agree with the scripture that says we were subject to the tree, be it on purpose or not doesn't matter, and likewise subject to hope. You said it yourself you hope people will get better and have pleasant lives. then everyone in the world has been subjected to the same hope. this distroy's "One saved always saved" theory along with the only way to heaven and God is by confessing christ is lord or that christ saved us on the cross. yes i'm not saying christ didn't save us on the cross. But if everyone has that hope in which God says we do. Then god must have ordained that very hope before the fall had taken place to begin with so in fact we all did become truely lost but god being of love could not allow it to go on forver. we just had a temporary several thousand year fight with god. why? so we can learn what love truely is. we can experience love instead of just having knowledge of it. The tree has a purpose, people have their purpose, god has his purpose, evil has it's purpose, christ dying on the cross has it's purpose, all learn, all saved, and all made the choice on their own in either this life or the next todo what is right. to love themselves, to love others and to love god. i truely would like to see someone prove this otherwise. I have yet to find one. who can. Okay, this is not in reply to this query but a breaking down of it in an attempt to understand. Sometimes folks questions like this are best understood if we divide it into smaller digestable bits, so let's see if I can make it easier for you to understand, but bare in mind i'm not dood, so I don't know exactly what he was thinking when he wrote the above. 1. Firstly dood said he was trying to see if there was a connection between the tree of knowledge (which we were made subject to) and the hope (which we were made subject to), I think Trib and I would most certainly agree on that. 2. Now, if we were made subject to the tree of knowledge whether through our act of willingness or not, then does it logically follow that we were subjected to hope in the same manner. For example, was the tree of knowledge forced upon us and hope forced upon us in the same manner? Now I have already given my thoughts to dood on this, this is just so his post can be better understood. 3. In light of what scripture says and what I said, dood has now concluded that we are all, every person in the world on a level playing field, ie we have all been subject to the same tree of knowledge (sin) and the hope (Jesus). 4. From this dood has further concluded that if I believe this then it destroys my Once Saved Always Saved belief and there is only one way to Heaven belief, I am unsure why this is concluded by dood, but this is how I am understanding his post. However it does not, now you come back here dood and finish this!!! 5. Here's the cracker of the matter, and if many people are being honest with themselves, it's hard to go through a day or two, without wondering why?...........God having foreknowledge, which He does, why did all this happen? Why put the tree in the garden, why create the devil, why allow us to sin, why subject us to hope in the first place..............in essence why? If there is any further bits you don't understand trib or Lady G, just let me know, but bear in mind i'm only guessing at what dood is thinking Now dood you get back here, see what you've started now!!!! I have trouble enough keeping up with my own mind, never mind trying to guess what you are thinking. I'll get back with my reply asap guys, God Bless

I'm on it dood, but this may take some time, we should never rush into answering something as serious as this without first considering it. I realise that you will probably be left by the time I get around to posting a reply however, for the sake of those who read the above post, I feel I must attempt to give an answer. God Bless you dood I'll miss you Anne

Trib, listen! Do you hear that, I think dood's coming!

WHERE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT The Lord Jesus said in John chapter 14, "I will pray the Father and he will give you another Comforter." This Comforter, The Holy Spirit, is God's love gift to every child of His. This fact ought to bring a holy hush into our lives as we realized that as children of God we are indwelt every moment of every day with a Divine Person who is like Jesus Christ. When the Lord Jesus said the Father would give another Comforter, He used the word in the New Testament which speaks of "another of the same kind." The Comforter who was to come was not another of a different kind but Another of the same kind as our Lord himself. Though our Saviour left us to go home to his Father in glory, Another like Him came to indwell us and abide with us forever. During the last world war, Mr Horn was speaking to a group of young men in an induction camp in Queensland about this fact of the indwelling Holy Spirit. In that group was an airman who was visiting from another district and had joined the Bible study for the evening. He knew this truth concerning the indwelling Spirit intellectually, but stated that he could not and did not understand it. Mr Horn said to him that he would not be able to grasp it on the intellectual plane. It was a revealed truth, and the subject with which it dealt was not a natural experience but that of the supernatural. Mr Horn went on to tell him that he should pray to the Holy Spririt as a person, since He is a person, in something of this vein:- "Spirit of God, be gracious and inwardly reveal Yourself to me, so that under Your control and through this life of friendship with Yourself, I shall know Christ in clearer measure and come to know and do the will of God." Mr Horn told him to pray that once every day and really mean it. The airman continued to do this for the following seven days and came back to the next Bible study a new man. He was indeed transformed! Now, in his conversion he had had a very glorious experience. He had been a night club operator for some time in Sydney prior to the war, and through faithful preaching of the gospel he had been won to Christ. He himself had been used in evangelistic services as he gave his testimony, and people saw the clear-cut break he had made with the old life. But when he cam back after this week of special prayer, he said to Mr Horn, " Neville, I have had a new experience. It is as though I have been reconverted. I have a new understanding of the Lord Jesus. Something has burst upon my inward life that gives me a new and deeper understanding of Him." That is what we all need, don't you think? So often the One who brings the Lord Jesus to us is forgotten or unrecognised, and in many cases He is not even wanted. But it is the Spirit of God who was sent to lead us into all understanding and in all truth. He is truth - supremely so. We need to let Him be our teacher, and He will always exalt Christ. For there is no jealously within the Trinity. In answer, then, to the question: Where is He? From Scripture we now know, that not only is He here in this world, but He is right where He was when you cried those words "JESUS SAVE ME", He is in you as He indwells every believer, you have but to ask Him for His help.

No worries dood..............I'm just messing with you Take your time and don't panic

wonders if dood is hiding

I just thought i'd point it out incase confusion arose Trib, sorry.................

Thank you for letting us know mike, you're in my prayers and many others' also. God Bless you, and wrap His loving and healing arms around you. In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ Amen.

OC, The origin of sin has been discussed at great length, here are only two of the posts involved. But as you can see, it was discussed. Including the garden, the two trees and Adam and the first womans occupancy there, their later demise following temptation by the serpent. The conclusion from scripture was indeed that Adam and Eve fell from Grace as a result of sin, but to go over every detail in this single post would take forever and I don't think my fingers are up to it. But what dood is asking is not now the origin of sin, but more what is the essence of vanity and hope and why were we subjected to both? Does that make sense OC. Your Sister in Jesus Christ Anne

Mike The Tornado dude, I'll probably get a slap on the wrists for this, but i'm willing to risk it, some of us are having a hard time processing this but we are all agreed brother on one thing:- The macstoogie clan loves Tornado dude

Mike the penny has just dropped, what is wrong are you ill?? Or just leaving worthy??