AnotherSinner

Thank you 2Joyful. Sometimes I think it is hard for me to remember that we are human and fallen from grace. Also that temptation is a daily battle front for each of us. Not to say in the least that condones, or excuses sin. More or less...that it is just part of our daily war with it. Seeking God is something I strive to do so now more than ever. A relationship with God really, in essence is what keeps me sane. Especially when things get difficult. Not that when times are rough should be the only time we go to stand before God and speak with Him. He should be sought daily.

Childeye, I still feel as though I am not understanding you. You mention both will and free will in a bit of your posts on this topic. Can you help me understand your perspective of both? This way perhaps I might understand more of what you are trying to say in regards of man not really having choice. I am still just...not grasping your point of view. My apologies. I want to make sure I understand your views before I dare say I agree or disagree fully for whatever reasons that I may. Thanks.... May God Bless You Dani

Yes, and likely for B. So then why aren't you voting now, for the "lesser evil"? Seeing how little I know of politics, which is exceedling little outside of what I have been raised around and taught....first question likely should be, how am I going to get informed? Last election, I was not registered...which was probably for the best, but will begin praying about this upcoming one.

Dennis, Thank you for sharing with me. Sorry too for all the hardships you have had to bear. Especially those that were inflicted by your church family. The house of God should be a place you are able to go to seek refuge, encouragement, as well as enlightment. Not to mention it should be a place you feel free to share the same things that you recieve. Suffering is something I have come to belief and feel that helps us to grow. Not just on an emotional level, but a spiritual one as well. For the one we should always turn to...no matter what the struggle should be our Creator. God will never let us down. Just have always stumbled when it comes to trusting in Him, especially when times get rough. Also when it comes to trying to explain suffering to others. It was a real downward turn for me in the past. May God Bless You....

What I was referring to was your statement of how everyone knows the difference between good and evil. Hope that helps. Trying to take in all you say here. So please take your time to elaborate if need be. Thanks for the clarification. And thanks for your warm manner manner. My answer would be no then. To elaborate upon that, I would defend the position that knowledge of good and evil does not make someone righteous, Love from a pure heart does. A pure heart is one that does not Love for it's own sake. Thank you Childeye. I think I am going to read over all the responses you have given me once again before I add any further commentation. Want to make sure I am grasping what all you are saying.

Is this...your way of saying those who are low income do not work? What of this family?: A father works nights and sometimes doubles as a chef for minimum wage. One check is enough to pay their monthly rent. He gets two, sometimes three checks a month as he is paid every two weeks. The mother is a stay at home mom who tends to their two boys. One of which is struggling with health/developmental issues. They had to swallow their pride and apply for help. They receive medicaid for their children, wic, and now food stamps. They do not have basic television, or cable. They do not have multiple cars and have only now just gotten their first so this way they do not have to rely on others to help them get around. Otherwise, they walk everywhere they go. They do not ask for any more aid than the help they already get and feel bad for having to ask for... The mother is looking for a job so as to help the father out. Are they any less deserving than a wealthy person? Why? Think sometimes people have a hard time looking past their own noses....not to mention think some of the low income families are belittled because of their situation. While so few actually take the time to consider that not everyone was born middle or upper class. Some of us do not get the education that others do, some of us simply cannot afford it and make due with what we have. Think that social status should not denote or measure a person's worth...PERIOD there's a bigger picture. let's say that the chef ends up opening up restaurant (then a couple more) in his future after years of his struggling. Taxing him more after he built his assets from the ground up would be like punishing him for his success. as for the second bold point - that is a problem in the family and community. they do not tend to give back after they have moved up. I know this chef...he would not do that. I married him. He is a humble sort. He would pay back what he owes, but fortune and fame are not him. He has seen what money does to people. How do you know if they would give back? Are you them? Are you me? Are you him? We pay our taxes when they are due. We are not asking for more help than we need. We are not asking for welfare money. We are not asking someone else to pay for our education. We are not asking anyone to buy our children clothes or give them to us. We are not asking for someone to pay our bills. We do not get TANF. We ARE working towards saving up to get my education finished. We ARE working towards both of us working steadily so that way we no longer need government programs. We ARE trying to give what we can of what we do not need so others who do can have it. Really like...how assumptions are always made...it is sad. I don't think anyone is suggesting that they know you or your husband or that they know what either of you would do. Nor do I think anyone here is accusing you or your family of being "mooches" or of "abusing the system." We are merely refuting the notion that everyone who has an income over some arbitrarily set number should automatically be forced to pay a higher amount of taxes. Our taxation system has virtually no way of taking the reality of day to day life into consideration. Ask anyone what their income is and it might sound like a lot of money. But when you start taking away the mortgage payment, the cost of the vehicle they have to have in order to commute to a job, the cost of fuel for that vehicle, the cost of medical coverage for their chronically ill family member, the cost of simple utilities and food, and that income frequently winds up closer to zero or even in the negative. Yet that isn't often considered. "Loopholes" for extenuating situations are either impossible to find or have standards that are ridiculously onerous. Believe me, we looked for every possible way to to alleviate our tax and penalty burden but there simply wasn't one. Having said all this, I want to make it clear that we are profoundly grateful that we were blessed to be in a situation were we had money to fall back on. We never had to fear foreclosure. We now live debt free and have vowed to remain so. God has been there every single step of the way for us, even when my husband still didn't have a permanent job and I got a cancer diagnosis, God stepped in and provided not only the job we needed, but the absolute best insurance either of us has ever seen. We are immeasurably blessed. But our current government-run tax and welfare system isn't working. And it is the fault of both those who make obscene amounts of money but still want more and those who are too blasted lazy to make any effort at all and remain content to live off the charity of others. Both extremes are wrong and both exist. I am simply frustrated by the fact that so many out there seem to believe that taxing the middle class to death is the answer. No need to convince me on expenses. May be young...but know that the cost of living in itself is out right...well in a word.......costly! Now days seeing rent prices is frightening enough. Can only imagine what morgage rates look like! Gas...say no more! This is going to sound so anarchist...so I apologize...but Money is a darn nuisance. Think it was a mistake inventing currency.

His is it fairer then a flat tax? Should not everyone pay the same rate, or are we not created equal? As for the flat tax being "holy", please show where anyone said it was. In my oponion It's fair to ask those with a larger disposable income to pay a larger proportion of that income towards pinlic services than those on a lower income who mighr be forced to forego basic needs to pay that tax. As to the comments about holiness, i refer to the way that questioning a right wing position - advocatinhg flat taxes is dismissed as a sign of personal greed and envy. The problem is that you (and apparently the government) are assuming that a higher income automatically translates to more disposable income. It doesn't. Referring back to my earlier post where I described our situation, the income we were taxed on wasn't disposable in that it was mere surplus because we were just so rich we had nothing to do but spend wildly. We were in a situation where circumstances dictated that we only had two options: 1) We could withdraw a portion of my husband's retirement, lose almost half of it to the government in taxes & penalties, and ensure that our home was secure, all our debts were paid off, and our credit rating was kept in good standing. 2)OR we could have waited until all our bills were months past due, our home was in danger of foreclosure and our credit rating was destroyed, then withdrawn even more of that same retirement money (to cover the accrued past due penalties) and still paid higher taxes, but been granted a reprieve on the penalties. Basically, we were punished for not being poor enough and for making sure our bills were always paid on time. It's easy to sit here and assume that a family with a combined income of $250,000 is just rolling in dough and should be happy to "do their part" to "share the wealth" with those who are "less fortunate." The reality is that, like with us, those assumptions are sometimes flat out wrong. Think either way you go...it is not a win win situation. Those who make enough money to live on, make too much. Those who make too little are mooches. Those who could basically buy themselves a life....well....it is just....

Is this...your way of saying those who are low income do not work? What of this family?: A father works nights and sometimes doubles as a chef for minimum wage. One check is enough to pay their monthly rent. He gets two, sometimes three checks a month as he is paid every two weeks. The mother is a stay at home mom who tends to their two boys. One of which is struggling with health/developmental issues. They had to swallow their pride and apply for help. They receive medicaid for their children, wic, and now food stamps. They do not have basic television, or cable. They do not have multiple cars and have only now just gotten their first so this way they do not have to rely on others to help them get around. Otherwise, they walk everywhere they go. They do not ask for any more aid than the help they already get and feel bad for having to ask for... The mother is looking for a job so as to help the father out. Are they any less deserving than a wealthy person? Why? Think sometimes people have a hard time looking past their own noses....not to mention think some of the low income families are belittled because of their situation. While so few actually take the time to consider that not everyone was born middle or upper class. Some of us do not get the education that others do, some of us simply cannot afford it and make due with what we have. Think that social status should not denote or measure a person's worth...PERIOD there's a bigger picture. let's say that the chef ends up opening up restaurant (then a couple more) in his future after years of his struggling. Taxing him more after he built his assets from the ground up would be like punishing him for his success. as for the second bold point - that is a problem in the family and community. they do not tend to give back after they have moved up. I know this chef...he would not do that. I married him. He is a humble sort. He would pay back what he owes, but fortune and fame are not him. He has seen what money does to people. How do you know if they would give back? Are you them? Are you me? Are you him? We pay our taxes when they are due. We are not asking for more help than we need. We are not asking for welfare money. We are not asking someone else to pay for our education. We are not asking anyone to buy our children clothes or give them to us. We are not asking for someone to pay our bills. We do not get TANF. We ARE working towards saving up to get my education finished. We ARE working towards both of us working steadily so that way we no longer need government programs. We ARE trying to give what we can of what we do not need so others who do can have it. Really like...how assumptions are always made...it is sad.

What I was referring to was your statement of how everyone knows the difference between good and evil. Hope that helps. Trying to take in all you say here. So please take your time to elaborate if need be.

Is this...your way of saying those who are low income do not work? What of this family?: A father works nights and sometimes doubles as a chef for minimum wage. One check is enough to pay their monthly rent. He gets two, sometimes three checks a month as he is paid every two weeks. The mother is a stay at home mom who tends to their two boys. One of which is struggling with health/developmental issues. They had to swallow their pride and apply for help. They receive medicaid for their children, wic, and now food stamps. They do not have basic television, or cable. They do not have multiple cars and have only now just gotten their first so this way they do not have to rely on others to help them get around. Otherwise, they walk everywhere they go. They do not ask for any more aid than the help they already get and feel bad for having to ask for... The mother is looking for a job so as to help the father out. Are they any less deserving than a wealthy person? Why? Think sometimes people have a hard time looking past their own noses....not to mention think some of the low income families are belittled because of their situation. While so few actually take the time to consider that not everyone was born middle or upper class. Some of us do not get the education that others do, some of us simply cannot afford it and make due with what we have. Think that social status should not denote or measure a person's worth...PERIOD

The above I cannot disagree with. God's love is Eternal. We have seen this from beginning to end in scripture and it remains entact today. Okay. So again we are in agreement here that Satan became vain and the end result was sin. He came to die for us because we had no avenue unto life that could be accomplished by our will because of sin. No one here is saying a man will not choose to follow Christ. We are saying that those with faith will choose to follow Christ and those who have no faith will choose not to. And so God has chosen the poor rich in faith and works salvation from the bottom up so as to eliminate any boasting in the flesh; so as to think, I did this and chose by my freewill to believe, and that other man who believes not, chose not to of his freewill. I am therefore better than he and deserving of eternal life while he deserves eternal damnation because we both chose freely. Therefore it is through faith that it might be by grace so that no man may boast. Here is where I am at a loss. Please correct me if I am misunderstanding what you are saying here. Are you saying that because the options or choices are few that there is no free will? We see so many choices like this daily. A sad example in this case would be: A young person who has been recently dealing with a great deal of bullying after being picked on most of his or her young life feels like he or she has no self worth. Choices here are more or less to tough it out and see through the bullying by getting help or toughening up one's own skin. Then...there is always the option to simply end it all...irronically, through death. While I cannot argue that Satan always has a trick up his sleeve in which to use to try to pull us away from God, I find it hard to simply say that we do not have the freedom of thought or choice in the matter as to whom we are going to spend our lives serving or trying to serve. Then...what about this too, if there is only light and darkness...what of these poor souls who have decided in their hearts that there is NO higher power of any sort? Or what of those who are never taught about God? Just do not see how there is no free will. I understand that we all live life and have an opportunity to do so for God or not, and otherwise choose to have an eternity with Him or experience not only a physical death, but a spiritual one. So because we all should, though are not necessarily always taught right and wrong from a scriptural stand point......we have no free will?

There is no place on the ballad for Jesus. And? This isn't a theocracy. The fact that it isn't doesn't absolve us of our responsibility when it comes to voting. Responsibility? Is it so wrong that I do not put my faith in man, but God? Either way you vote, it is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.... No one called you the devil. I don't know where you get the idea that voting = putting faith in man? My faith is in God. God put this government in place and we have a vote. I am going to use that voice to further His kingdom as much as I possibly can. Can we please dispense with the strawmen? I am sorry but I do not take lightly to be called names...even if it is as simple as being implied that I am Irresponsible. Truth be told....politics are LAST on my priority list. There are other responsibilites that come first for me. Yes, in a sense I do feel that voting is putting your faith in man after all it is a man, not God getting the vote. Sadly I have yet to see an honest politician. So let me get this straight... it's NOT ok to suggest that we have a responsibility to account for our vote, but it is ok to say that voting is putting faith in man and not God??? I'm sorry, but I'm not wearing it. No one called you any names at all. The fact is that God has put every government system in place and since this is what He has given us, the best we can do is prayerfully respond when we are given the chance. Alright, I can admit I have likely let my feathers get a little ruffled. So my apologies. Yes, God did put the goverment system into place... because we asked for it in the OT days.... I pray for whomever gets elected. Beyond that, I really do not feel comfortable voting for someone who does not have my full support. Seeing what has been coming out of the office over the last eight years, cannot say I would be too happy if I did vote.... Is there any scripture that says we SHOULD vote? I know there are passages that speak of respecting the officials placed above you, but that does not necessarily mean that we are obligated to vote. I think you are in a quandry. God has given us this government as His mandate, and yet, God has NOT given us candidates we are totally satisfied with. It is still what He's given us, and I see a mandate in the bible to live our whole lives in sacrifice to Him, in obedience to Him, bringing everything to prayer... so I don't see anywhere that voting is given as an exception to that rule? Let me ask a related question. Both candidates A and B have flaws in their religious beliefs and in their policy so that you are not completely satisfied with either. However, A's has many many more policies that disagree with the Word. If candidate A is currently in power, and all votes are tied, and you have the option of casting the deciding vote FOR B, in order to replace evil A with not-quite-so-evil B, or not voting at all (hence A continues in power), would you vote? Yes, and likely for B.

There is no place on the ballad for Jesus. And? This isn't a theocracy. The fact that it isn't doesn't absolve us of our responsibility when it comes to voting. Responsibility? Is it so wrong that I do not put my faith in man, but God? Either way you vote, it is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.... No one called you the devil. I don't know where you get the idea that voting = putting faith in man? My faith is in God. God put this government in place and we have a vote. I am going to use that voice to further His kingdom as much as I possibly can. Can we please dispense with the strawmen? I am sorry but I do not take lightly to be called names...even if it is as simple as being implied that I am Irresponsible. Truth be told....politics are LAST on my priority list. There are other responsibilites that come first for me. Yes, in a sense I do feel that voting is putting your faith in man after all it is a man, not God getting the vote. Sadly I have yet to see an honest politician. So let me get this straight... it's NOT ok to suggest that we have a responsibility to account for our vote, but it is ok to say that voting is putting faith in man and not God??? I'm sorry, but I'm not wearing it. No one called you any names at all. The fact is that God has put every government system in place and since this is what He has given us, the best we can do is prayerfully respond when we are given the chance. Alright, I can admit I have likely let my feathers get a little ruffled. So my apologies. Yes, God did put the goverment system into place... because we asked for it in the OT days.... I pray for whomever gets elected. Beyond that, I really do not feel comfortable voting for someone who does not have my full support. Seeing what has been coming out of the office over the last eight years, cannot say I would be too happy if I did vote.... Is there any scripture that says we SHOULD vote? I know there are passages that speak of respecting the officials placed above you, but that does not necessarily mean that we are obligated to vote.

There is no place on the ballad for Jesus. And? This isn't a theocracy. The fact that it isn't doesn't absolve us of our responsibility when it comes to voting. Responsibility? Is it so wrong that I do not put my faith in man, but God? Either way you vote, it is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils.... No one called you the devil. I don't know where you get the idea that voting = putting faith in man? My faith is in God. God put this government in place and we have a vote. I am going to use that voice to further His kingdom as much as I possibly can. Can we please dispense with the strawmen? I am sorry but I do not take lightly to be called names...even if it is as simple as being implied that I am Irresponsible. Truth be told....politics are LAST on my priority list. There are other responsibilites that come first for me. Yes, in a sense I do feel that voting is putting your faith in man after all it is a man, not God getting the vote. Sadly I have yet to see an honest politician.

There is no place on the ballad for Jesus. And? This isn't a theocracy. The fact that it isn't doesn't absolve us of our responsibility when it comes to voting. Responsibility? Is it so wrong that I do not put my faith in man, but God? Either way you vote, it is a matter of choosing the lesser of two evils....

That statement does hold a great deal of truth to it. Just how do you know when you are on the right path? How do you know you are REALLY doing God's will in your life? I have lost a friend before due to my beliefs to later reconnect, but have the relationship badly estranged. No compromise made either in terms of faith. Just...wounds were a bit deep to forget, even if forgiven. Even have been referred to as names that I dare not utter here or really much of anywhere....along with titles such as a child of Satan, because I did not share someone's point of view. I am a babe in Christ, I know this. Just what is it about one's relationship with Christ that makes them know or allows them to know that they are in the right place with Him? I share God's word...but feel as though I talk to walls or perhaps get the silent point and muffled chuckle reaction. Like...'Is she serious?' Or 'Who does she think she is?' How do you know you are really doing what God has called you to do?

Sometimes it is a challenge to discern whether something is a desire of our own hearts or a call from the Lord. Of course it can be both. Having your husband's support is great. If this desire has persisted over a period of time it could likely be the Holy Spirit is prompting you to jump in and try. You can always expect some opposition if you are to move forward. And that may require a "leap in faith" for you, that is, to try something without having a lot of encouragement from others. And timing is very important too. I remember having a desire to teach women's bible studies for over a year before I finally started doing them. I wasn't really ready yet but the Lord put that desire in my heart. I put it on the back burner and continued to pray and wait. Eventually doors opened and I was invited to teach one. I ended up doing eight of them within five years and still do one occasionally. Here is a great scripture which inspires me. (Psalm 37:3-5) (NKJV) Trust in the Lord, and do good; Dwell in the land, and feed on His faithfulness. Delight yourself also in the Lord, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. Commit your way to the Lord, Trust also in Him, And He shall bring it to pass. peace and blessings Thank you for your insight Evergreenjo. I will think on the wisdom you have shared as well as the scripture you have shared and pray on it too. If it is God's will and meant to be, it will be.

This is another question that has been weighing upon my heart rather heavily. More often than not, I hear a lot of these words: To follow Jesus means: To love God with all you are To help those who are in need To care for the sick To forgive those who wrong you To put aside earthy possessions To love your neighbor To encourage and lift up one another in prayer And so much more....Yet this is what I see: People shunning one another be it on account of sin, oppinions, or status Noses upturned towards those who are in need, and labels being strewn upon all who feel they are in need as mooches Sick being left to fend for themselves and neglected, if not abused by those who are supposed to care for them Grudges being held for years and years at a time Wealth as well as riches being placed above relationships especially the ones that are most important Animousity being had towards neighbors, so much so that people do the nastiest things possible out of such negativity Insults and utter degrading practiced when another person has fallen short of someone's standards I...myself am guilty of these things. Just....how can the church when it is preaching these things, do the opposite and cast a good image of God for others to see? When we see these things happening how can we rise above it and do what we are called to do? Will not lie...there is a personal reason I ask this...cause as of late judgement was passed on me due to my financial situation....and it has made me wonder...how some of us can call ourselves Christians when we show such ugliness to one another? What does it mean to you...to follow Jesus?

Free will....this is one of many sugjects I see heavily debated on. Love, in itself answers this question for me. For it is FREELY given. It is not expected. God gave us this when He gave His Son. He also loved us from the beginning. Making for us a perfect world. Even His angels were something truly special. So I have to ask those who feel that there is no such thing as free will or that everything has been predetermined..... Did God make Satan/Lucifer Sin? Why encourage us to love and forgive if we have no say in the matter? Why did Jesus come to die for us if we do not have the choice to love and accept Him as our Savior? If we have no free will, then why are we not perfect and in need of a Savior? Now if I have misunderstood something, please feel free to rebuke me. Just do not understand how anyone can scripturally say that we do not have free will when God has been letting us choose from the beginning. Yes, our choices have led us to nothing but trouble because our decisions are not always what God would want us to do. That is why there are consequences. That is why I believe in my heart that God in His mercy, sent Jesus for us.

There is no place on the ballad for Jesus.

Thank you for sharing the many passages you have with me. Just find there is so much confusion within the church any more. For I see so many churches or people who believe with all their hearts that when things go wrong that God must be angry with them. It just breaks my heart to see it. A lot of other questions that often follow these that I have seen are ones like these: If God is such a loving God, why does so much evil happen? How can such a merciful God allow such aweful things to happen? Why is there so much pain? Death? Destruction today? Why is this happening to me? What did I do to deserve this? Sometimes I feel the questions that should be asked though are: Why not me? What can I learn from this? What blessings can be found? What can I do about this? How can I help those who are currently facing this or that? What does God want me to do? Suffering naturally is not something any of us really delight in. I know I do not....but think so many today are being taught false doctrines of condemnation...if they are anything less than perfect. The only perfect soul I know of...is Jesus Christ, who died for us, why is it then that so many are being led astray with this doctrine of fear? Where did it come from? Well now from one sinner to AnotherSinner. I have observed this to, I think that people on a whole need answers as to why bad thing happen to them and seek to blame God for those bad things, when in fact, those bad events can be just life or the actions of other people's Free Will. I personally can not see God, reaching out His hand in some kind of judgement against man for something that He, sent his son to die on the cross for. Bad stuff some times just happens, floods happen, big winds just happen, people choose to kill other people, God is not the blame. My past is filled with death and dieing, filled with pain, anger and hate, God did not do it, people did it, and some of those bad things happened because I choose to do bad things, God was not the blame, "I was". Yet, with all the death and with all the horrors that I have seen in my life, God has turned those events into something that can be used for good. I know what it feels like to lose a loved one, I know what it feels like to lose a child, I know what it feels like to have a loved one addicted to drugs, I know what it feels like to have the police come a knocking at your door. I know what it feel like to witness the horrors of what man can do to man for I have lived through it. Yea, I asked the question "why me Lord" yet I continued on and did what needed to be done while trying to do the right thing for all.When I returned home from serving my country I was called a baby killer, yet no babies were ever killed by me, I saved a few, yet not all. False guilt follows me for those that I cold not save, false guilt follows me for those people I could not help because they chose not to be helped. God was not the blame, we the people who chose to twist and turn their backs to God are accountable for most of the actions that befall us. Build a house on a sandy beach and one day it will be washed away, God is not doing the washing, the Ocean is. Mat_5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, Luk_6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luk_8:14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life's worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. Joh_17:20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, Act_1:16 and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David But for the Grace of God go I...... Fear, does not come from Him that Died for us, it comes form with-in us or from Satan. 2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God; 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: ICL~~~Dennis Thank you Dennis for the welcome. Some people call me Renee. Others call me Danielle. A select few call me Dani. Although perhaps I am rather young, I too have known various degrees of suffering. I have lost loved ones to cancer, suicide, as well as the negligent driving of others. I have had family addicted to drugs as well as alcohol. Others who have been the cause of or subject to physical violence. I....myself...have been prey to molestation as a child. There has been times in the past my heart was hardened against God because of such events. The first time I faced this question: If God is such a loving God, why do so many bad things happen? I was stumped. I had no answer. As a young college student fresh out of high school on fire for God, I discovered my fire quickly extinquished by doubt. In time though....God led me to the book of Job and some of the answers to some of those questions I asked above have been found. Just do not understand where the idea of suffering in another's life means that there is sin that is unaddressed or God must be angry with them came from. How did this lie start? Has there been verses that have been used in your experience that have eased the hearts and minds of some who once felt that God resented them due to the struggles they experienced in their lives? How might I reach out to a soul, such as a dear friend who feels this way?

Quite right, after seeing the mention of Luke, I revisited my Bible. So my apologies on the misrepresentation. Still feel that John had a very deep spiritual understanding of Jesus in comparison to the other Gospel writers. This by no means, means that John is more important than any of the other books of the Bible.

I am just a babe in my faith. There is much still I do not know. Just cannot help but wonder how if this doctrine is false....it is so widely believed and where it originated. How can scripture be used to support the truth that argues against so many negative beliefs? Is there a way that this deception can be countered with truth?

Thank you for sharing the many passages you have with me. Just find there is so much confusion within the church any more. For I see so many churches or people who believe with all their hearts that when things go wrong that God must be angry with them. It just breaks my heart to see it. A lot of other questions that often follow these that I have seen are ones like these: If God is such a loving God, why does so much evil happen? How can such a merciful God allow such aweful things to happen? Why is there so much pain? Death? Destruction today? Why is this happening to me? What did I do to deserve this? Sometimes I feel the questions that should be asked though are: Why not me? What can I learn from this? What blessings can be found? What can I do about this? How can I help those who are currently facing this or that? What does God want me to do? Suffering naturally is not something any of us really delight in. I know I do not....but think so many today are being taught false doctrines of condemnation...if they are anything less than perfect. The only perfect soul I know of...is Jesus Christ, who died for us, why is it then that so many are being led astray with this doctrine of fear? Where did it come from?