saved34
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Posts posted by saved34
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Just now, missmuffet said:
It sure looks like JW doctrine to me.
I thought so too, but he believes in the full deity of Christ. The bodily Resurrection of Christ, the triune God and just about all of the fundamentals of our faith. lol this brother is no rookie. He is well trained in scripture, but like all of us he is off base on this one. We all stumble on doctrine at times.
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I believe that is referring to Christians not the poor of this world. They were having trouble with lazy people in the church. Gossiping and not working.
2Th 3:10 For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat."
2Th 3:11 We hear that some among you are idle and disruptive. They are not busy; they are busybodies.
2Th 3:12 Such people we command and urge in the Lord Jesus Christ to settle down and earn the food they eat.
We are to work so we can meet our own needs and share with others.1Th 4:11 and to make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business and work with your hands, just as we told you,
1Th 4:12 so that your daily life may win the respect of outsiders and so that you will not be dependent on anybody.
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8 hours ago, missmuffet said:
Do you think the person who started this thread is a troll and is trying to bring on dispute among Worthy?
I know I said I would no longer participate but I do not want any of my brothers and sisters confused on this matter. @ShinyGospelShoes Seems very serious about this subject. Most men who attempt to dabble in unclear and unknown doctrines are.
Its an argument you cannot win if the person in question uses vague scripture to counter clear scripture. We know God has appeared in various forms for man’s sake. We could not stand in his real presence or appearance at that time. So he appeared as men as well as an angel. He allowed Jacob to wrestle with him. The angel of the Lord and Michael have never been clearly linked as one and the same.
We are told clearly before he appeared That Jesus was God, Eternal and creator of all things. Something that has never been attributed to any angels. Not a single verse of scripture says Christ was an angel at anytime.
Michael fought the devil in Heaven. Where before his incarnation the Bible says Jesus was God, not an archangel or messenger. He was God with the Father. That is orthodox Christianity. This teaching of Shiny is from his own mind and is a disrespect of the true Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
Col 2:18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Col 2:19 They have lost connection with the head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
Clear scripture, with no guessing. He has been given clear truth concerning this matter with not a single scripture saying Christ Jesus is also Michael the archangel. We have clear scripture that Christ is superior to angels and they all worship him. Only to have him say all but one uncreated angel, Michael. God clearly says he never told any angel(arch, seraphim, Cherubim, etc) to sit at my right hand.Always believe clear revelation over vague teaching that is never solidified.I do believe he is a brother, I just believe he is in great error.-
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16 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
Yes, not in question. I didn't say you said otherwise. I was making clear the distinction between Power and Will.
The Father is all powerful, but does not will satan to be destroyed yet.
The Son is equal with the Father, not in question. Also all powerful. He does the will of His Father.
Agreed. I’m going to bow out of this argument brother. I think you have been given significant truth on this matter. Anymore bickering on my end will just develop into foolish arguments. I’ll keep track of it but will not be replying anymore. God bless.
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3 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
Luk_22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
Joh_10:30 I and my Father are one. (iow, they are in agreement, not the same Person/Being)
Joh_5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
Joh_6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Not a matter of power (Jesus is Omnipotent). It is a matter of what the Father desires.
Which is why I gave the scripture of Christ’s self humbling. I never said they were one and the same. Scripture is clear Christ was the Word before he became a man, and that he was equal with the Father.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
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5 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
Already addressed, and you did not rebut, you only disagreed (ie, your 'opinion', your 'apriori'):
Hebrews 1:13 refers to the created (hence "maketh") angelic hosts, not the uncreated "Angel of the LORD" - Son of the Father, as we see in Hebrews 1:1-3, the highest Messenger sent from the Father. In fact, Hebrews states that the created angelic hosts (Gabriel, etc) are the "fellows" in office of messengers to the uncreated Son, who is the highest Messenger.
Mat_21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Heb 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
Context? Hebrews 1 vs 7.
Heb 1:7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
The context of Hebrews 1:6 is the created angelic hosts, not the uncreated Angel of the LORD.
Therefore, when it says, "Let all the angels ..." it only refers to the created "fellows" of the uncreated Son, and Highest Angel (Messenger) of the Father, as seen in Vs 1-3.
You already admitted that the OT refers to the Son as the "Angel of the LORD", thus proving the point.
Your assumption is in regards Michael not being the Son. You did not prove that the two are not the same Being. I gave very much evidence that they are.
Michael rebuked satan in the name of Kurios. The Word being Eternal, and God who created Satan would not have to do this. Even in his humanity he defeated satan by his word. He intentionally humbled himself under his Father for our sakes. If he desired he could destroy satan instantly. It wouldn’t be a fair fight at all. Lol
Php 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
Php 2:7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
Php 2:8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!
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1 minute ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
Thank you. That just proves that not "ALL the angels" worship Christ, since the Son of the Father is an "Angel" (uncreated). You yourself just admitted it.
Using that logic not all men will worship God since he has appeared as a man as well. Scripture clearly says every knee will bow.
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24 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
Really? "ALL the angels"?
Yes, all the angels.
Heb 1:5 For to which of the angels did God ever say, "You are my Son; today I have become your Father"? Or again, "I will be his Father, and he will be my Son"?
Heb 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, "Let all God's angels worship him."
Was Michael one of God’s angels?The Angel of the Lord was an Old Testament appearance of God. God has also appeared as a human in the Old Testament. These are Theophanies. The incarnation is unique and different from these appearances of God. Christ literally became a human from start to finish. Birthed like us, raised from a baby to a man. -
@unworthyservant I think you go down a slippery slope of self righteousness when you pick and choose what’s right and wrong between amoral instruments. PCs and phones have literally led to murder, entire governments shut down, rampant pornography and many other detestable things. They are just tools.
I am smart enough in Christ to be selective about the things I watch. I have been blessed tremendously by some tv and movies that I have watched
As far as spending money, I don’t believe our Lord teaches us to abstain from spending money in the world, or that we are to give all our money to the poor. I mean, they were allowed to buy meat that was directly used as sacrifices to other gods. The early Church set aside a portion of their money every week for the poor Saints, not their whole check.
1Co 16:1 Now about the collection for the Lord's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do.
1Co 16:2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with your income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made.
If you search your own home I guarantee you have worldly products that have nothing to do with God or even the owner of said product could be an atheist or even a satanist. You would drive yourself crazy trying to research stuff like that. You would have to leave the earth to live up to that kind of standard.1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world.
God says he loves a cheerful giver. If you give everything, so be it, but no believer is sinning if he does not.2Co 9:6 Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously.
2Co 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.
Lol I think you have the gift of giving. Which is given to some Saints by the Holy Spirit. That is not a gift every believer has to the extent you go.Rom 12:6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith;
Rom 12:8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully.
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Well I do watch television and occasionally take my son to the movies. Like anything else you can just be selective.
Tv is just an instrument that can be used for good or evil. Just like our PCs and phones. We have God’s wisdom residing in us to use these things for his glory instead of pornography and foolishness.
As far as being happy when someone famous or infamous gets saved, I don’t see a problem. It’s not putting them on a pedestal, it’s just surprising.
The Saints were surprised when Paul got saved. As evil as the industry is, God still has his people in it shining as lights. I believe God has his own in every walk of life whether rich, poor, famous, sports, etc.
Because a person sings secular music does not mean they are unsaved or evil. What is the content of the music? All secular music is not sin, all tv shows are not sin. Nothing wrong with abstaining from these things if that’s your choice, but know our God is all powerful and has a remnant even among the devil influenced Hollywood and media.
1Ki 19:14 He replied, "I have been very zealous for the LORD God Almighty. The Israelites have rejected your covenant, torn down your altars, and put your prophets to death with the sword. I am the only one left, and now they are trying to kill me too."
1Ki 19:18 Yet I reserve seven thousand in Israel—all whose knees have not bowed down to Baal and whose mouths have not kissed him."
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5 hours ago, Debp said:
P.S. If others would like to see the videos, here they are. Already been approved here at Worthy.
The following is the other already approved video made by our young member.....this one has testimonies of five celebrities.
I watched the video and it was great. I did not not know Chris Pratt was saved. When I heard him say thank you Jesus I felt great Joy. Then to hear Shawn Michaels say the precious name of Jesus I literally couldn’t stop weeping. I know Shawn has been through a ton, but to see him giving Christ the glory is awesome.
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7 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
Already addressed, if you may please read through the thread before posting, thank you.
You actually did not address it. You made a poor attempt in explaining it away. Christ is not one of many princes, he is worshipped by ALL the angels, he is our head and is far above all angels, demons, princes and kings.
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
You are clearly not holding our head in his proper position. You are confusing Theophanies with our Lord being Michael. No Apostle has ever said this.They clearly teach that our Lord is God but somehow forgot to tell us he is Michael. No Gospel mentions this and neither does any Epistle. You are fulfilling the scriptures in Colossians. -
9 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
Would you say that they (devils) in that instance were "cast out"?
Mat 8:31 So the devils besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.
Mat 8:32 And he said unto them, Go. And when they were come out, they went into the herd of swine: and, behold, the whole herd of swine ran violently down a steep place into the sea, and perished in the waters.
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Lol ok now you are gonna put angels and demons on the same level as the one who created them? Christ is now “one of the princes?” A war? He terrorized demons. He didn’t fight them, they begged him not to torment them before the time. He said “Go” and they went.
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Just now, ShinyGospelShoes said:
No worries. I try not to take it personally, and it is the usual response, but if persons would consider the evidence above on who taught what, one will see that the WTS is a mixture of truth and error, borrowing from Romanism and Reformation theologies
Well trying to make Michael out to be Christ is gross error no matter who teaches it. Scripture is clear that Christ is superior to any of the angels. We have record of them worshipping Christ, but none of Michael who is one of many chief princes.
Dan 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
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1 hour ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
The word "angel" simply means 'messenger' or 'ambassador', 'one sent with a message', and so Lucifer being in said position, as Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28, etc portray, makes him an 'archangel' as Jude 1:6 also relates, having abandoned his arch office., see also Rev. 9:11, the 'angel' of the bottomless pit, ultimately Satan, though not only, and see also 2 Corinthians 11:4 and 1 Corinthians 6:3, for even satan himself shall be judged by the saints. 2 Peter 2:4 refers to Lucifer's own fall.
He does not call him Lucifer, he calls him satan. He was a covering Cherubim according to scripture, not an archangel.
Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
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11 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
The Son of the Father is eternal, self-existing, uncreated Creator (Jesus JEHOVAH, I AM, etc) in union "with" the Father, and Holy Ghost.
Please do not assume, even after all the evidence I provided contrary to such an statement.
I am most definitely not a member of the WTS.
Forgive me for the false accusation then. Your teaching is very similar but they would never acknowledge our Lord’s true nature and deity lol.
Now, where is it written anywhere that Michael created anything? Or that he should be worshiped by ALL the angels(that takes in arch, cherubim, seraphim). God the Father called the blessed Son God.
Heb 1:7 In speaking of the angels he says, "He makes his angels spirits, and his servants flames of fire."
Heb 1:8 But about the Son he says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
When has this ever been said of Michael? He is called one of the chief princes, where Christ stands alone as the Worthy Lamb of GodRev 5:12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Michael is an angel so he was created. -
1 minute ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
I assume you were raised LDS (Mormon) by the statement? Yes, Michael is very much greater in strength than Lucifer.
So you are actually going to promote this false teaching on this site? Was and is Michael God? You go out of your way to promote the Son of God as an angel. You do realize God has stepped into his creation before the incarnation, as a man and an angel. In Christ it was unique as he was actually born a human and fully took part in humanity not to be confused with his appearances as Theophanies.
Joh 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Act 20:28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
You must be a Jehovah’s Witness -
Satan was a Cherubim. Lucifer is transliterated straight from the Vulgate. Hopefully I’m wrong, but are you suggesting Michael is our Lord?
If he were right here in front of you he would tell you to worship Jesus. He’s a fellow creature such as yourself.
Col 2:18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you. Such a person also goes into great detail about what they have seen; they are puffed up with idle notions by their unspiritual mind.
Heb 1:13 To which of the angels did God ever say, "Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet"?
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33 minutes ago, ShinyGospelShoes said:
This statement is in error. "Lucifer" is another angel also named.
Isa_14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Didn’t they just bring the word “Lucifer” straight over to the Greek? In other words it’s not really the devils name it came straight from the Latin.
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1 hour ago, maryjayne said:
Is it reasonable to suggest that, as Michael overcame Satan, then Satan isn't even as powerful as an Archangel?
I was brought up to believe that Satan and Jesus had equal amounts of power. The scripture quoted above make that teaching a lie, doesn't it.
Amen. Satan couldn’t even defeat our Lord when he took part in our weak humanity, nevertheless talking about him in his divinity as the Word who was God and created him.
Our Lord routinely had devils screaming in terror at just his presence.
Mat 8:28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent that no one could pass that way.
Mat 8:29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"
Mat 8:31 The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of pigs."
Lol never any back talk or anything. Full obedience to the mighty Son of God. As far as Michael he seems to very powerful among angels, but he defeated satan at the word of our God.Jud 1:9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
Whoever he is he is vastly inferior to our Lord Jesus. God bless his Holy name forever. Among angels he seems to be a leader. -
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You have to come to a point where you believe God’s word. Assurance comes from understanding that he cannot lie. What he promised he will accomplish.
Tit 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,
He promised you victory over sin. He is with you, not standing back waiting for you to fail. You run to him with your sin in hand for forgiveness and cleansing. Walk in his light even when you feel like a complete failure.The throne of grace is there 24 hours a day in time of need. Never allow your sin to make you feel far from God. Take that guilt and ugliness right to him. Lay them at the feet of Jesus. He is faithful and just to forgive.Look at your attitude even in doubt, you still have a desire for God, if presented with opportunity to get saved a million times over you would do it. Of course that is not needed, but you would.At some point take your stand on the rock of God’s word. Believe what he promised and quench every arrow of doubt the devil throws at you. Just know we all have been right there with you. God will never lie, you will never be made ashamed by trusting him.-
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Great story. Experience is what God uses to grow us. We mature through hard times and trials. Your testimony is a true testament to that.
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If it’s not expressly forbidden in scripture it is not a sin. That being said, even things that are not sinful can at times not be good for us. They can be weights and entanglements.
Realistically the Bible has some horrific depictions of violence. Only they are real and not fantasy. Unless you have mental issues with separating fantasy from reality, I personally do not see an issue.
Asceticism has never made anyone more Holy. Our life in Christ is not all about don’t do this, or don’t touch that.
Col 2:20 You died with Christ. Now the forces of the universe don't have any power over you. Why do you live as if you had to obey such rules as,
Col 2:21 "Don't handle this. Don't taste that. Don't touch this."?
Col 2:23 Obeying these rules may seem to be the smart thing to do. They appear to make you love God more and to be very humble and to have control over your body. But they don't really have any power over our desires.
Another good rule of thumb to think about is can I really do whatever I am doing to the glory of God. Maybe witness to your fellow gamers, dedicate intercessory prayer to God on their behalf. Just ideas.Col 3:17 And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.
1Co 10:31 So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.
If You Don't Work You Shouldn't Eat
in General Discussion
Posted
I don’t think so, but we can do our part. Our first and foremost mission is to get them the Gospel. We will never eradicate poverty on this side of glory. Our Lord said we will always have the poor among us. Peter told one gentleman I don’t have any money to give you.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, "Silver or gold I do not have, but what I do have I give you. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, walk."
Mar 14:7 The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me.