firestormx

Thank you for the post. Your refering to the The holocust, correct? Haven't read Isaiah in awhile, will look into to your reference. Gives me something to chew on.

I agree, thanks for the post.

I agree with your statement. That's why I posted this actually. I was wondering if there was something I was missing, and to remind everyone to keep them in prayer.

Is anyone else keeping up with what is going on with Israel right now? Does anyone think this is getting things ready for prophieces to be fulfilled? Or is this just another conflict? What do all you think? Either way, let's all try to remember to keep Israel and her people in our prayers.

Kinda sad really but, I use to believe that if someone said they were a pastor or elder then what they said about God had to be true and could always be trusted. I know believe that everything anyone says regardless of who they are, has to line up with the word of God.

Also try this if you haven't Take the verses back to the hebrew and greek, see what the meaning is there.

Ok, you got my attention. Anything you need to talk about? off topic, except for the idea that if it were true it would affect all topics I address. I have become very sensitive to the spiritual realm and have had upon many occasions had spirits come over me peddling some new 'wind' of doctrine though there be nothing new under the sun. I have experienced first hand spirits claiming Jehovah Witness, Mormon, Islam among other doctrines to be true. I have one particular teacher whom I call God that always shuts these others down using scripture and sends them packing. All of it comes in a revelatory sense and I have simply been working for the better part of a year to sanctify the one that I believe is the Holy Spirit speaking and work to understand what I is being revealed to me by him. And then of course, when I would to do good, evil is present with me....sorting out all of the pieces is quite interesting. I have come to love the song In The Garden as I spend a lot of time in fellowship talking to, singing to and praising the one who is leading me internally. If I be wrong, then I have no idea if I have ever heard from God internally then. What a drag that would be.... Gary Remember Christ's promise Gary. He said his sheep know his voice. But learning his voice takes time. Just like a baby sheep as it grows learns the voice of it's shepard. If your son asks you for bread, will you give him a stone? If he asks you for a fish, will you give him a serpent? if you then being evil know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more your father in heaven? Try the spirits. One of my personal favorite verses is in job, The Lord speaks once yea twice yet man precieves him not. God will never tell you something just once, he tells us over and over, confirming it's him, it it will always be in line with his word. That's also why I come here to worthy. I know I don't have a monopoly on God. He speaks too all his children, and loves all that are his. Even if someone has yet to learn something I have, they should atleast recignize the Spirit of God behind it. Not everyone will. Even some of his own children sometimes will not. But some will. We are a body. Christ's body. The foot don't do what the hand does. If I'm the foot, I'm not going to go to a hand to see if I'm functioning properly. Likewise, find believers with simalar Callings, simalar enabling by the Holy Spirit. Hope this helps, will be praying for you

I would venture to say the verse in psalms says the earth is established for ever, but don't say it has to be this earth. Remember the promise in revelations about a new heaven and a new earth. Nothing in the definition of established is nullifed by the creation of a new earth. the promise of both can be made without disagreement. Have you studied the meaning of established?

Ok, you got my attention. Anything you need to talk about?

Actually, the proper translation is not one of pride Trust batach (baw-takh') to hie for refuge; figuratively, to trust, be confident or sure -- be bold (confident, secure, sure), careless (one, woman), put confidence, (make to) hope, (put, make to) trust. in the LORD Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw') (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God -- Jehovah, the Lord. with all thine heart leb (labe) the heart; also used (figuratively) very widely for the feelings, the will and even the intellect and lean sha`an (shaw-an') to support one's self -- lean, lie, rely, rest (on, self), stay. not unto thine own understanding biynah (bee-naw') understanding -- knowledge, meaning, perfectly, understanding, wisdom KJV Lexicon You cannot translate word for word when dealing with another language. English is exceptional in its construction. The proper translation for not leaning on your own understanding would actually mean to 'not support yourself with' Which, is why the translation in our Bibles uses the English word 'to lean'...the Hebrew language is far more descriptive exact in it's meaning so we should be careful not to put our own translations in if we are not a student of Hebrew or Greek. If we do not follow the rules for languages we do know we can easily change the meaning and that would not help our understanding at all The Bible tells us we should ask for wisdom and seek knowledge. In our pursuit of truth, we should be willing to accept correction when it is given. Pride and arrogance occur when someone thinks everyone else but them is wrong Good answer.

To everyone who has posted, You have given me much to seek the Lord about. Dennis, great point that I had not applied to this subject. thank you jeanniec, Sorry that happened to you, but great testimony, that's what I've been asking people for, thanks for sharing gdemoss, I was hoping someone would have a deeper understanding of the origanal language and what it meant Thank you again and God bless

NChrist, Let me rephrase my question in my OP. What does it mean to lean to your own understanding? If we read and study the word as we all should, and we decide what the meaning of the word we are reading is, in our own head, are we not leaning to our own understanding? Shouldn't all our understanding of what the word says come directly from God? If it doesn't is that leaning to our own understanding? Are we really ready to say that the doctrine we speak came directly out of the mouth of God? Yes there are people at different levels of growth, but shouldn't we all agree with the simple basics if all of us are recieving the understanding from God? P.S. I forgot to put this in previous post, sorry. Thank you for taking the time to post.

The only alternative would be to blindly accept the interpretation of someone else - maybe a pastor or other leader. We should know about the pitfalls of doing that. It would do no good to be of one mind if the conclusion was wrong. No, we are to study the Holy Bible for ourselves and ask God to help us. If we are fortunate, we will have a good pastor and Bible-teaching local assembly to help us. This would still not do away with the need for us to study God's Word for ourselves. We must search the Scriptures like the noble Bereans and see if what we've been told is the truth. Many Bible truths are simple and self-evident - some easy enough for children to understand. Regardless, we have no excuse for failure to study God's Word for ourselves. Fair enough, but where does the interupitation of that study come from, what is the source of the understanding? because if we decide what it means, if it's our understanding of what the bible says, then we are in violation of the very word we are seeking to understand. lean not to our own understanding.

Thank you for your response. I keep having the thought, the early church ( the first church ) leaned on the Living Word, where as we lean on the written word. There understanding came from the Living Word, our understanding comes from our interupitation of the written word. Big difference I think, and maybe somewhere in that is the answer I'm looking for????? Yes, the problem arises when it is our interpretation of scripture. We are not to lean on our own understanding, which is what interpretation is. Instead, we should allow Him to use His words to guide us and teach us. This is a hard concept to include into ones life these days because we are told to always think things through and decide for ourselves what is right and what is wrong. I prefer to allow His Spirit to guide me and leave myself out of the equation. This is not always my end result, but it is how I try to approach issues and questions. I agree I think it is a hard concept to keep in practice. it just seems so forgotten these days. I think I'll be seeking God over this for a while.

Not necessarily. God sees time differently than we do, and it might simply be that its not time on His schedule for what you are praying for to happen yet. I know people who have prayed for things like the salvation of a loved one, or change in life situation that didn't happen until years later -- but they kept praying nonetheless. i stand by my guns... if you NEVER see a result from your prayers something's wrong. Okay. I wasn't attacking you, so there's no need for guns. May I ask your definition of "never?" With all due respect, What does this have to do with my op and question? Please keep this thread on topic, or start a thread on your topic to further discuss your points of view. Thank you for your time and may God bless

thank you for your post

You and OL having giving me much to pray and seek the Lord about, thank you May God bless you

Thank you for your response. I keep having the thought, the early church ( the first church ) leaned on the Living Word, where as we lean on the written word. There understanding came from the Living Word, our understanding comes from our interupitation of the written word. Big difference I think, and maybe somewhere in that is the answer I'm looking for?????

Yes, that's it They relied on the Holy Spirit and Christ, they were in one accord ( pretty much anyways), we ( the church today ) one the other hand disagree about everything from salvation to the return of Christ. When is it leaning on him and his word, and his truth vs leaning on our understanding of him and his truth and his word? To put it another way, what is the difference between standing on the word and standing on our understanding of the word? the scripture makes plain not lean on our understanding. Maybe I'm looking at it to hard, and I can't see the forest for the trees, lol

Clearly the first church was not perfect. I agree with what you said, but I meant to use the first church only as an example, that collectively they recieved the truth from Christ, it wasn't about there personal understanding. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is....When does it stop being that we are standing on his word, and become that we are standing on our own understanding. I hope that is more clear, if it is not I will try to use some examples next time to better explain my point. By the way, thank you for your concern and taking the time to post

Only briefly were they of one mind fire. Only briefly The glorious first church is something of a myth. Read the NT. (I know you have) Do you really see all this unity or do you see problems, factions, heresy, warnings and sin? Come on. That first church perfection never existed. Another thing: they did not have the Bible that we do! They had letters that became the Bibles that we have Think about that and maybe that will ease some of your current conflict God has it all under His control...THAT is what you should realize. And God is not anyone's puppet Before you go further, you have to let the fact that the early church was NOT some perfect heaven on earth sink in How could it have been with human nature (sinful) being what it is? If you are in doubt as to the veracity of my statements, I will be happy to provide many passages to underline my post If you really want to study and get a grip on God's affairs, you have to out from under the microcosm of your own world and into God's universe and understand His vastness and perfection. Think on these things...we cannot change anyone and need's God's Holy Spirit within to work on just our own self I think the greater conflict with me is something else. flesh against spirit, our sin and weaknesses vs God's perfection. We will always sin and fall short, we will always need Christ as our only hope of salvation. But where is the line between his truth and us and our understanding? I mean so many people ( self included) Hold so tight to how they understand the word, that they refuse to move, refuse to be corrected, refuse to admit they don't understand it all, that there doctrine is not 100% perfect. When is it standing on the truth of his word vs standing in the pride and arrogance of our understanding of his word?

Thank you to everyone for the responses. Let me clarify alittle. The first church was of one mind. They were unified. One Doctrine, one Spirit. They trusted God for there understanding. This is not the case today. Almost every believer I have ever known would say they didn't lean to there own understanding, because the believed the word of God, the bible. That the bible was there source along with prayer and seeking God, so how could they be leaning on there own understanding. But when people read the word, who interputs it? Who decides what it means? If we in our own heads, in our own minds decide what it means, then are we leaning to our own understanding?

I have that same trouble sometimes. Thanks for the post

Thank you for your concern and taking the time to post. may God bless you

First, I will pray for you, that Christ will met all your need, including someone to search the scriptures with, and to fellowship with. I really enjoyed reading your response. You have given me much to pray and seek God about. Thank you and May God bless you