Bible_Gazer

You have to prove that you love God. We know what Jesus said "If you love me keep my commandments" Why would you not keep what he says to do ? Once you know the commandment you are not required to do them ? Why would you want to disobey ? Are you judged by another person's salvation or by what you understand in Jesus's commandments ? Please clarify what you mean “You have to prove that you love God.” To what purpose? Understand I believe people should be baptized after salvation through immersion. But I don’t believe there is any Scriptural basis for saying that if someone isn’t baptized and they die they will not have eternal life. Example: My wife’s grandmother is nearly 96. Let’s say that she isn’t saved but 10 minutes before she dies she accepts Jesus as her Lord and Savior. She has no time to do good works or get baptized. Would she in this case have eternal life with God through Jesus Christ? So I ask again... Is salvation something we do of our own strength or something God does through His Holy Spirit? Also is there anything we can do to earn salvation? If someone doesn’t get baptized are you saying they do not love God? How do you know what is in another person’s heart? Good discussion. God bless, GE Should a person while they have the ablility of time to do the will of God, Do it ? Much known much required Love for God, you would do as he says to do. What ever you know to do, I think that you must do and not judge yourself with someone's else salvation in what they understood to do or capable of doing. Do you think that God take people to heaven that don't love him but they just believe that he is God ? Obedient to God shows our love for him. The 96 year old grandmother did what she was able to do at that time. And she would not be lost forever. Don't judge your baptism with her salvation, you are judged for being able to do with you own time. What I am saying you must do that which you are capable of doing, what Jesus requires of you and don't judge yourself with others people salvation. We are to measure up to Jesus's plan of salvation as a bundle, not on just one sentence, put it all together and do what Jesus is giving you and prove your love to do him as you do them. If you know to be baptize then that is require of you. If you don't do it delibertly, then you rejected his ways. You be could as Paul says it a castaway. 26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway 1 Cor 9:26-27 (KJV) Its better to be faithful to the faith.

Do we have to prove that we are saved through works or following commandments such as baptism? Is salvation something we do of our own strength or is it God acting in our lives? Curious. Are you saying if someone doesn't get baptized they don't love God? See this discussion: You have to prove that you love God. We know what Jesus said "If you love me keep my commandments" Why would you not keep what he says to do ? Once you know the commandment you are not required to do them ? Why would you want to disobey ? Are you judged by another person's salvation or by what you understand in Jesus's commandments ?

So what is the different with this diagram than the Oneness belief ? God is all three and all three are one and all is one name. Good question, and I'll try to answer as best as I can.. Oneness Theology stems from either Modalism or Monarchianism. Modalism is the belief that the Father, Son, and H.S. are different "aspects" or "modes" of God. Think of an actor in a Kabuki theater. He comes onstage as the Father, goes and makes a quick costume change and comes out as the Son, makes another change and comes on again as the H.S. Monarchianism is the teaching that there is one God in one person. These are directly in contrast to the Trinitarian concept of Godhead as three eternal persons coexisting consubstantially (of one substance/essence) as one in being. We could go back to the analogy that I gave earlier: My son and I are two distinct persons...but we are of one essence in our humanity (we're both human), and we both exist simultaneously. Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and The Father are distinct persons, yet of one essence in their deity...existing simultaneously. you are more confusing Your analogy of father and son - makes two separate being - you should say is one family so now you are saying - father and son and spirit are separated yet one being Your chart shows 4 with God being the center. Trinity is a mystery as one trinity minister told me.

Hey BG, Where do you see two thrones in Heaven? Is this a Biblical reference? God bless, GE Revelation 4 and 5 = God the father is on the Throne REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. In context… Rev. 3:14-22 The Lukewarm Church 14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans[f] write, ‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[g] I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 ‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.’” Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God the Father in heaven. If we are adopted into God’s family as we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior, we shall be seated on thrones with Jesus. Perhaps we should look at the following two passages to understand further Rev. 3:21… Luke 22:29-30 29 And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, 30 that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.” 1 Cor. 6:2-3 2 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters? 3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, things that pertain to this life? Jesus' plan for all of us who Believe and are adopted into God’s family, is that we will be seated with Him in heavenly places. Jesus overcame the world when He submitted His will to the Father's will. He overcame sin and death on the cross. We are part of Jesus’ inheritance given to Him by the Father. The Holy Spirit is to help Believers. The Holy Spirit is active in today's world while Jesus is with the Father. So no need for a throne for the HS. See discussion: Your thoughts? Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. I think this is his Bride that is on the throne here the same in Rev.3:21 saints. The throne would be authority. Kings and Priests as mention in Rev.1 so I see two major thrones God the Father and his Son Jesus has a Throne of authority which God gave him. Does the HG have authority to have a throne ?

So what is the different with this diagram than the Oneness belief ? God is all three and all three are one and all is one name.

Hey BG, Where do you see two thrones in Heaven? Is this a Biblical reference? God bless, GE Revelation 4 and 5 = God the father is on the Throne REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Do you think if you deliberately ignore what is required of you that you are saved ? Are we not suppose to do what is asked of us to do ? Like I said you cannot measure yourself with others people salvation, they do what they know to do at that point. But when you know and don't do it. 17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin. James 4:17 (KJV) Children of Israel ignore God's commandments and they got punished. Are we any different from them, when we ignore Christ commandments. So picking the minimal last second for salvation does not mean you are saved when you knowing all there is to do to obey that which is required of you. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required. I think you are required to do with what understanding of the laws of Christ you have. If you understand that its a commandment to get Baptized then get baptized its the law, why break it, don't you love him. Is not our love toward him proven by doing his commandments. I don't think anybody will go to heaven if they don't love God. Do you ?

Could you by chance elaborate a bit on each of those? Not clear on your questions, but if i could, I would love to help. God bless you, Love to you in Him Is there still a trinity in heaven now ? When Jesus was here it seem like God was separated: 1. God in Heaven 2. Jesus on earth 3. Holy Spirit went about doing things Are they all one now ? or still separated ? Maybe I am not looking to clearly thru a trintiy eye glasses to well. I am still confused by your question, but I will try and do with what I believe your confused with, ahead of time if it is not what your looking for I apologize. I would like to make something clear, It was not that God was "one" and broke off into a bunch of branches (3), these each make up God as a whole(3 are one), the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit. Hebrew 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Now you ask where is the Holy Spirit? 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." And these three are one! 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." "Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord" Deuteronomy 6: 4 So when God was a child(Jesus) he was fully God in one body ? no where else ? all three in one place. You are saying They are not three separate being. Is God spirit now ? or Is God now Jesus with a body ? You know how some believe when you die your spirit goes to heaven. Now when the resurrection come you are united with your body and now you a not a spirit no more. right.? So God is not the spirit part no more either ??? Well I am assuming that some believe God is spirit without a body. Is that true now or was it true back then ? Again, it is not that God was one big Creator, then broke off into three parts. God has been these three parts. Consider this. John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." From this we understand that the Word (Jesus) was with God and is God, not to be confused with He was God and is no longer. John 1:2 "He was with God in the beginning." The Word (Jesus) has been with God since the beginning. John 1:3 "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made." And again, we are made to recognize that the Word (Jesus) was there during the creation and apart of the creation, nothing could have been made that was made. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Not sure if you read this or not so will post it again. . . . "One of the most famous of these is the shamrock which St. Patrick used as he evangelized Ireland. Holding up a shamrock to the angry pagans who demanded an explanation about how God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are one God yet three beings, he asked them if he was holding up one leaf or three. If three leaves then why one stem? If one stem then why three leaves? The crowd was silenced and St. Patrick said; "And if you cannot explain so simple a mystery as the shamrock, how can you hope to understand one as profound as the Holy Trinity?" Now, let me try and put this into perspective for you. Take for instance the three leaf clover as depicted in the quote above. If you take away one of the leaves it no longer becomes a three leaf clover, so, just as with God, He remains the same, thus His 'oneness' in the trinity must also remain the same. As for the thing about Jesus, lets see if this verse helps. Mark 16:9 "After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God." So to answer your question, no. Jesus is still Jesus, the Father is still the Father and the Holy Spirit is still the Holy Spirit, they all make up God. you are confusing I see two thrones in heaven. God has one and Jesus has one - So where is the third leaf of the clover throne ?

If your point is to say people are arguing against baptism, nobody suggested that. I know I didn't. The question is whether or not you are completely saved before you are baptized? True. Baptism is important, because Jesus commanded it. But it has nothing to do with salvation. By being baptized, you are proclaiming your belief in front of witnesses. Basically - you're making a public stand for Christ. Where does it say you are doing it before others for that purpose of showing your faith. Baptism isn't for others its for you, because you just wrote that its a commandment. What if we disobey this commandment then, are we saved ? For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: We can't judge ourselves with other people salvation - example: someone gets saved by believing in Jesus and the next minute they die. We are required to do what we are able to do because God judge our hearts in how we obey him. Other wise why do I need Jesus most Jews believe Like Abraham salvation, just believe in God. Did it work for Abraham ? So I think if you konw about baptism and its a commandment, you better get it done. Keeping the commandment also shows you love God.

Could you by chance elaborate a bit on each of those? Not clear on your questions, but if i could, I would love to help. God bless you, Love to you in Him Is there still a trinity in heaven now ? When Jesus was here it seem like God was separated: 1. God in Heaven 2. Jesus on earth 3. Holy Spirit went about doing things Are they all one now ? or still separated ? Maybe I am not looking to clearly thru a trintiy eye glasses to well. I am still confused by your question, but I will try and do with what I believe your confused with, ahead of time if it is not what your looking for I apologize. I would like to make something clear, It was not that God was "one" and broke off into a bunch of branches (3), these each make up God as a whole(3 are one), the Father, the Son and the Holy spirit. Hebrew 12:2 "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." Now you ask where is the Holy Spirit? 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 "Or do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own? For you were bought at a price; therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit, which are God’s." And these three are one! 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word,and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." "Hear, O Israel: the Lord our God is one Lord" Deuteronomy 6: 4 So when God was a child(Jesus) he was fully God in one body ? no where else ? all three in one place. You are saying They are not three separate being. Is God spirit now ? or Is God now Jesus with a body ? You know how some believe when you die your spirit goes to heaven. Now when the resurrection come you are united with your body and now you a not a spirit no more. right.? So God is not the spirit part no more either ??? Well I am assuming that some believe God is spirit without a body. Is that true now or was it true back then ?

Could you by chance elaborate a bit on each of those? Not clear on your questions, but if i could, I would love to help. God bless you, Love to you in Him Is there still a trinity in heaven now ? When Jesus was here it seem like God was separated: 1. God in Heaven 2. Jesus on earth 3. Holy Spirit went about doing things Are they all one now ? or still separated ? Maybe I am not looking to clearly thru a trintiy eye glasses to well.

Is there still three person in one person now ? Was there three ? and now there is just one being ? God is no longer spirit now ? now he has a earthen body that has been changed to live in - now that makes two Now Christ is all powerful by returning to himself in heaven bringing the trinity together into one being ??? Before Jesus came there would have been two, when he came there were three and went to heaven and now there is one unity ??????????????

Jesus only believers ? Did Jesus say ? "Don't do what I do or what I say, just believe in my name only" So don't do what the early church did, they didn't know better.

Merry Christmas to all my brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus

I just like the fact that God has gotten a hold of the most troublesome part of our body that man seem to cannot control and God made your tongue to speak the way he wants it for a moment of the new born birth, another language. Just like a new born babe gone thru the water, thru the blood and speak a new voice in the air and the evident of a new born is alive. What proof that a person has the Holy Ghost without evidents ?

Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Revelation 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellow servant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. It looks like here that someone from the church has made it up to heaven and has a body already according to these scriptures. I do not believe this is a natural created Angel, they are not called our brethren to us. So yes when you died accepted of the Lord you go to heaven and get a heavenly body from heaven as mentioned in 2Cor.5:2. I know some like to use 1Cor.15 and 1Thess.4 showing rising from the dead, but it does not say from the graveyard in the earth does it ? Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. Colossians 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Romans 6 :3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. Col.2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. The born again is a resurrection and we are not suppose to die, so when we become an overcomer and die in the flesh house, your soul cannot die so it needs a body to move into. So in your last moment on eath the trump is blown for you to be recieved by the Lord Jesus. I do see at the coming of the Lord to recieve the live and remain saints group, that their body will have to be changed also into a heavenly body. I cannot see Jesus coming to earth also to recieve some dead body from the grave. He is coming for the living.

How can a spirit be immortal ? Who gave it power to live forever if it is not saved ? Are we really trying to save our body ? its the body that is blessed because it gonna get resurrected. - if the soul never die Does the spirit have a body if so then why does it need a dead resurrection earth body ? So if all souls(spirit) return unto God who gave it, then everybody is up there with him alive ??? sinners and ungodly evil sinners and atheist and all .......... , Will the body be resurrected male and female and baby bodies ? or will every body be equal ? What is the body which is from heaven to be clothed with ? 2Cor.5:2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven Where does it say that people during the next 1,000 will get a new body ? If they die will the be resurrected at 2nd resurrection ?

I don't think I really read or heard the real reason for a spirit to be united with its old body which won't be flesh anyway. Who cares about something that most likely for most people the body don't even exist anymore, its gone to dust or rotted in the sea. God is going to have to create a new dead body then bring it alive from the grave without a soul then take you out of heaven and put you into it. Then people will be thinking he rose from the dead - when actually you were in heaven.

Jesus went to the place Under the earth which was called paradise when he was hung on the cross , he brought the OT saints back to life and they walked the earth giving their testimony of Jesus the Christ risen from the grave for 40 days and then went to heaven with Christ . The term dead in Christ' means the people who have accepted Christ as Lord and savoir of their personal life, they are those who's spirit goes to heaven when they die , and also will receive an immortal glorified body when Christ calls those in 1st Thess chap 4 and 1st Corinth chap 15 to come up into the air to meet Jesus in the air. Anyone who dies and is not 'dead in Christ" will never be in heaven and will face the Great white throne judgment and be eternally separated from God , never to be a part of the family of God because they did not choose Christ when they were alive and able to make that choice. Symbolically when we accept Christ and that he died in our place , we are a new creation , we have died to our selfish ways and have submitted ourselves to Christs ways , it is thought of as having died to carnal selfish human ways , and being reborn in the spirit of God , being called 'born-again' Christian . In a manner of speaking that in doing such we have created a permanent ticket to heaven for when our body dies we go straight to be in the presence of the LORD Until then since we still have a mortal body we need to confess our sins each day for even though we are born again Christians we still are mortal flesh and blood humans that will sin from temptation that we are confronted with each day. According to Romans 6 we are to be dead unto sin in Christ Jesus. If we are dead how can the flesh sin ? Temptation is in the heart not the flesh. (what is born again the heart(soul) or body) The flesh follows the heart. I never read Jesus went into the earth to bring back the OT saints (where is under the earth ?) and I never read anybody went with Jesus to heaven on Mt. Olive the day he left his Apostles.

Well you know its kinda funny or weird when you go to a funeral home some preacher, preach the person went to heaven and we are gonna meet them someday. Then.... you go to the grave yard then they preach about them gonna get resurrected. are they dead or alive ? Jesus came to do something different then what the OT offered. He came to give us victory over death and the grave now, not later. The OT saints, all they ever got was a promise of a resurrection from the dead. Jesus made a better way. Question = what is the dead in Christ ? are you dead or are you alive ? Read Romans 6 - how many ways are we dead is there anything showing dead in the grave for us ?

Show me some scripture that say "Steven went to heaven" We must remember that Jesus is our example and all that happened to him will happen to us which means that we will first decend into the lower reaches of the earth before we are raised from the grave. What did Jesus say to the thief on the cross? He said "this day you shall be with me in paradise" now we all know that Jesus first decended and since the thief went with Christ that very death which is the day of His death, the thief went with Christ into Paradise. Desiring "to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: IS A LONG WAYS FROM BEING CLOTHED WITH OUR HEAVENLY CLOTHING. Well read this again What did Stephen see before being stoned ? - Jesus Was this not Jesus coming for him ? - sure Stephen was a educated man in the Gospel and asked Jesus to come and get him he knew his body was going to die. So the flesh died and Stephen moved out a live spirit and went to heaven and not to be naked he got an heavenly body. Why would you want to raise a dead body when you are already alive in heaven ? God has to speak a body back into existence so that ____________________________ ? what purpose ? If the body is going to be raised from the grave and then changed into a heavenly body anyway, why come back down here and be dead again and be resurrected from out of the ground, just get it while you are already up there.

I think Stephen went to heaven and has a new body. Acts 7:55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God. 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. 2Cor.5:1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. 2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.

There are about 1,050 commands in the New Testament according to this list http://dlministries.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/nt-commandments/ Are we to measure up to the NT commandments ? Are we Judged by it ? Judgement first starts in the house of God - by hearing the words preached. If we be judged then there must be a standard(measure). Eph.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ:

If God gives you a dollar can you give 10 cents back as a gift as saying thank you ? You are still 90% ahead.

You might read Ezek.36 God is bringing them back for his name sake. To show the Jews and Gentiles that he is God. Also talks about it in Ezek.39