Farmgal

Uh huh....but ONLY if we do not walk according to the flesh, what do you think legalism is? Christ fulfilled the law...we never could....legalism is ADDING to the perfect work of Christ on the cross Do you think Galatians is not all that? I have shown you - as we walk in the Spirit - the law is fulfilled in us, we are able to obey (the law) perfectly. Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect. I don't have a problem with Galatians, of course, it is God's Word, yet people take what Paul says and it apply it to their lives and then state they are free in Christ to do whatever it is they would like to do. Yes, I see it across the board in a believer's life, sin is a HUGE problem, we are to be sinless, ridding ourselves of it - this would be deemed by some to be legalistic, not saying you are saying that, but I am trying to point out that when people obey, live Holy lives, they are deemed legalistic, as I stated in a previous post. We are free in Christ, to live as Christ did, walk as He walked.

I would have to tell you that you had not read or studied Galatians in order for you to assume I am under the assumption that 'people' have or have not done anything. Kindly see that you are actually assuming here. I simply stated that the letter to the Galatians should be consulted. Is there something wrong with that? Please provide scripture that states that THE LAW IS FULFILLED IN 'US'. Are you sure that is what is actually written concerning the fulfillment of the law? Me not so sure.......... I have already posted the scripture, but will do so again, the law has not disappeared as you are so trying to "get rid of it". Romans 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

You are under the assumption people have not read Galatians. My point is simply the law is FULFILLED in us, we are being led by the Spirit and not by the law, yet it's righteous requirements are FULFILLED in us. If we are truly being led by the Spirit, we will obey His laws perfectly. When I speak of obedience, I am speaking of not behaving nor acting like the world, where people can actually "see" that we are following Christ and are believers. It is a vastly different lifestyle than what middle America lives - even the believers. When we are set apart and look nothing like the world, we are deemed legalistic - try it sometime, you'll see what I mean. It's not even the point of pushing your beliefs onto someone else, it is just being led by the Spirit, to "be holy as your Father in heaven is holy", it is our old man being slain by the cross - these things have been forgotten, but when you truly seek these things - then you will be deemed legalistic. It's my point, it has nothing to do with Judaizers as in Galatians, but when you get rid of all laws entirely, it can lead to a sinful lifestyle, sin leads to death. There is a purpose for each one of the laws, there is a purpose for complete obedience, there is a purpose to live a Holy life, there is a reason God said "do not be like the world".

Interesting, I've never heard of an adventist called anything but a believer. The law is perfectly filled in us - except Jesus is our Sabbath. Bless you.

No. Consult Galatians. Paul addressed the problem through the entire letter. Are you saying it's ok for a person to disobey? Is obedience a form of legalism - or not?

True!! Our belief in Christ does not entitle us to an "anything goes" lifestyle, it's one of the problems of Christianity today.

Well sin is sin as far as the law. But in areas that are not specific (the Bible says don’t become drunk not don’t drink) sometimes people get carried away. I see what you’re saying though. I’m the kind of person that can be somewhat obsessive (lol yes I admit). So I know for me drinking is not a good idea. In the example of alcohol it seems it results in the Bible more often than not in trouble. Here’s a few examples from the OT and NT. --------------------------------- Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble. Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy. 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine. 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree. 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin. 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed. 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites. Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence. Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging. Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages. Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty. Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming. Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit. Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges. Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality. 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit. 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life. For more see: http://www.scionofzi...om/drinking.htm --------------------------------- Alcohol is clearly not very beneficial and leads to poor choices. Of course not everyone gets drunk every time they drink. The issue becomes Farmgal if or when because I have an issue with something I impose it on everyone else. This is legalism. Is this what you're talking about? Would you agree? I would agree if we impose what God has convicted of us, to impose it onto anyone else. On the other hand, God has told us to be Holy, are we Holy when we look like the world? As I mentioned in the post prior to this one, a person can be so far from legalism they look like the world, they chose to follow the world to prove they are not legalistic. It sets a person up to do whatever it is they want to do because we're not following any laws. The point I was trying to make when I brought the topic of law is that the 2 greatest commandments are to love the Lord with all of our heart, mind and soul and love our neighbor as ourselves and when we do this, we do not break the law. The righteous requirements of the law are fulfilled in us so that we are doing by nature the law, we are a new creation, obeying the law through our love for God and Christ in us. There is a fine line between legalism and not legalism, we must obey, is that legalism?

It's not an attitude, it's simply what the Bible states in James, it is where it came from, not of me, but from God. We know God has prepared works for us, is this legalism if we do those works? Does the work itself save you? No, not at all, yet if you don't have faith, you won't do the work. It's not a burden to do His works, it is a privilege that He lets us participate with Him in building His Kingdom. However, there are those who take anti-legalism to the other extreme and refuse to live by any rules for themselves, an example might be taking care of themselves, or as you mentioned even tithing, just to "prove" they are not legalistic. We have to be careful when labeling something legalistic - when it's not. Blessings to you.

I have been watching this thread and was a little confused about what others had to say about the law and legalism, granted we are to live by the Spirit and not the law, but to disregard the law as some are doing is to miss the point of what Jesus did for us regarding the law, which is not legalism. The law is to be fully met in us, not disregarding, but carried out in such a way with Christ in us, so we might follow fully the law in us. Romans 8:4 In order that the righteous requirements of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit. The mistake some people make is seeing "works" as a form of legalism, yet in James we read, "Faith without works is dead", he even goes on to say, "You foolish man, do you really need proof that faith without deeds is worthless?" If we don't have works, then we don't have faith, if we don't have faith, we don't have works. Legalism becomes a problem when a person has been convicted of a sin through the Spirit, and another hasn't. A sin for one person is not necessarily a sin for another, for instance, drinking can be a sin for one and not for another. I personally have been convicted to not have any alcohol, but then I see many younger people drinking, they might see me as legalistic, but the problem is, if I drink then I disobey God.

I believe it to go much deeper than 2 or 3 gathered in the sense of a prayer session. God has called us into community with one another, He said He would dwell in US and walk among US, meaning that when we are in deep fellowship, community and a sharing of our lives together, there He is. If anyone else has experienced this same sort of commitment, then you will know the power that is released when 2 or 3 or more are gathered.

Hi Gary, I'm late coming into this thread, I have not experienced what Elijah did, but have experienced other things. The point I want to make however is, that I believe God does want us to experience Him in ways like Elijah did. We can read about other people's experiences in the Bible, we can even learn how God deals with people and His ways, but in order to learn for ourselves how God works in our lives, we need our own experiences. God does not change and I do not believe He has changed in the way He deals with people, when we seek His Kingdom and His righteousness,sincerely, in Christ, walking in His ways, we WILL have experiences brought on by God. Of course, as others have said here, we need to test the spirits, also.