Bader

Sorry Joe but you will have to specify what it is you want if you wnt me to be to able give you more, The more frank I am the more kitchen sinks will get thrown at me, if I guess we are going to go aroundthe block again if i get it wong. Thsnks for any prayers re my health, regards your quotes in blue these do not delete the record of the 8 woes pronounced by the son of man or jesus' prophecy that they would remain in desolation. which could not have happened outside doing his Fathers will and works. I shouldn;'t have to rmind Christians of this. I have already clarified it is when people wont face the scriptures I quote and throw altenative ones to counter them i wont look the other way, mainly because it denies the works of christ and 'the burdon of the word', that his ministery was borne on. Matthew 27:26 says clearly all the people answered and claimed a curses apon themsleves, the majority voted by bribe for barabas, a man who lived by violence an they took violence for peace God offered them. I didn't write their furure.I have pointed out in one of my posts that those innocnt jews had the gospel chance of escaping the curse and the 8 woes, and that it was God's wisdom but it looks like no one agrees with my intimation about the character of God. Luke 23:24 the context celarly shows Jesus prayed the Romans be not punished since it was them that cast lots, not the jews and the jews forecd it upon pilate who hoped the people would call for his release. The rest in the quote of blue text since it has so much piled up I wont even begin to answer, your questions took me 5 hours and you know from what i post it s big task for me and now you dump a neep of passion upon me to reinforce issues not out of my post but the collectiion past anger and blam that belongs to the church of rome; as there is too many scriptures and isuues, its unacceptable, I may make answer of some kind to the poster later.

Oops~! The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him. Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Zechariah 12:1-3 Howdy Joe, this confirms what Daniel was told that the fourth beast would occupy the holy Land and jerusalem until the 'stone made without hands' destroys the beast Kingdom at jesus coming. Thid of course raises a huge question in many peoples beliefs regarding the middle east and they won't face it.

I apologize for editing the post's punctuation, capitalization, spelling etc. but I had to edit the post in order to try to understand what was being said. With this in mind I have a few questions: 1. When you say there is only one faith... What exactly do you mean please? 2. Who said anything about worshipping the Jews? 3. Why do you seem to really, really dislike the Jews so much? 4. Are you a Muslim? Please clarify. God bless, GE It i me G.E.thant needs to appologise for the state of my posts and i thnk you for clening them up for me. I Had a stroke nearly two months ago an it affected my left hand, i got off lightly and thankthe lord accordingly. I was not agood typist to begin with and now its worse. I usully have several corrections to do on every sentence or part sentence which then make the task quite arguous and tiring after an hour. the post i wrote this morning took me nearlytwo hours, even my correction need correcting, It's endless but i hava been told its good theorpy to restore the brain function and coordination. yourfirst question: ephesians 4:4 there is one body and one spirit, even as you are called in one hope of your calling, v5 One lord.one faith,one baptism, v6One god and father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. (There are many others if we like to think about it and they are not illegal if not listed here) v7 but unto evryone is given grace ccording to the measure of the gift of christ. Chapter 4 of genisis explains Abel was familiar with the same 'one faith' in giving the acceptable sacrifice to a God, That is how old it is and Moses is way in the furure I do believe it had some direct relationship to why Cain murdered him and the close of the age. What I will now link it to goes outside your question but it is very relevant on the general subject. Go to matthew 23, i wont copy it out its too much for me right now. read from verse 31to 36 or even to the end as it coveres things i have referred to in posts, it is in the latter part of the 8 woes Jesus pronounced upon the jews, no escape clause, they are locked in and jesus reads them their pedigree,( is jesus a muslim?) although not the first time. At this point all who read this need to confirm their belief a to wheather Jesus is the word of God or not and to whether or not his words are true , if not go via john chapter 1first. What he says here is like when he said 'let there be light' and there was light. people need to consider this when they are going ignore what he says and try to cover what he says over with other scriptures that suits their wweetheart doctrines. they are displacing the word of God which I believe is a srious matter and dangerous to young beleivers eyes which is why I wont look the other way. if we have no convictions now what will we survive on when the anti-christ comes? Verses 33 and 35 are the punch lines, no second guessing here. Note especially that the judgement goes right back to the murder of Abel. Jesus is saying here that the line of Cain is therefore in the line of 'this generation' jews ruling JERUSALEM.I have seen it confirmed by a jewish sourse that Edom is in Jewry and back into jewish history the detials are recorded. Edom is the prime contender for the promise to abraham down through historyand God deals with themat the end. In the days of the leader John hycanus 123AD the Judahites subdued the idumean jews in which the line of cain was in through early marrieges into the canaanites God told them to avoid like the plague. the idumen jew are dscended form Esau who married outside and against the code. UnderJohn they were forced to convert and be circumcised and they inter-married becoming one nationwithe the jews.. Is Jesus wrong? is he anti-jew? I dont understnd how people can have trouble believing what he says even if not understood why. Hycaunus was a pharisee according to The Annuls of The World by bishop Ussher. it was john who destroyed the city of Samaria, was king,high piest and prophet. much of the knowledge of the 'annals' are from Josephus where the source sbout the uniting was taken from and appearently in several Jewish enyclopaedias. second question: who said anything about worshipping the jews? I did. When people ignore the word of God who is the creator and promote some thing in His words that dont lbelong there they worship(conform) contrary to god's word, wisdom and plan of salvation for man, that becomes their false God, when they put the jews above God the word.it shouldn't be uprising if christians are offended. When they say God brought the jews back, no repentance, after he banished them for their sins and wouldn't repent, that mocks the word and God, they ignare the elephant in the room and push on into deception. The jews allegedly returned to their promised land in 1947, they captured the city in 1967, they dont then justify that it was also when jesus returned which is then required, because they are in deception. Danial says in black and white the city will be under-trodden of the gentiles until jesus returns. That was not in 1967. All fourbeasts are having turns occupying Jerusalem. So according to Daniel the Jews have to be Gentiles, they cant have it both ways. last comment rev19:10 'worhip god for the testimony of jesus is the spirit of prophecy.' Fourth Question: Why do I seem to dislike the jews so much, easy i love the word of god and immediately I hate deception and abusing gods word. I will say again if people cannot love the truth they cannot love God. They are chosing who they will spend eternity with. I have said nothing anything like what jesus said to their faces and you put this question to me. that's what amazes me christians read their bible for years and dont acknowledge what they read. Are you aware that the jews would like to ban the new testamnt as hate literature, in canada some years ago it was reported they were working to getting the red letter parts banned from the new testament .Also are you aware of the jewish Noahide laws of which there are 7 ( they are on line)have been acknowledged by the Justice departmnt but not passed into law. the 7th law imposses the death penalty for idolatry which includes the worshhip of jesus. If Obama passed this into law who would he be worshipping and he is a jew because his mother is one. These are beside the point but they show how extensive the issue can get. My concern is the word of God here among believers. Fouth question:am I a muslim? would I care about the faith of christians if i was? or that jesus and his word is insulted over and over? Or my knowledge could come from the Koran?the veracity of my argument stands and falls on that of the word of God. If I am right about what scripture says and that is for you to judge not me personally. I acn't t judge them personally only their claim to what the word says. but i would warn themand others. If I am right then why am i not in company here. They certainly are. If its not important to others then people will let it drift, I can't.This has taken me about 5 hours, taht's how important it ids to me.

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. Acts 3:13 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Luke 23:34 The Words Of Jesus And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:26-29 Mean Life Itself For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15 You See? For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Hum.... And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zechariah 12:10 Original Joe, none of those quotes over-turn what jesus said, is god divided against himself? pior to Jesus saying that he pronounced 8 woes upon the jews in matt23, A mere triffle perchance? eight is the number of god.He fulfilled here that part of daniel 9;27 "and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate", the anti-christ could not do that, people are confuded about the right prince, jesus' sacrifice stopped(fulfilledthe law) the temple practice, thats what he came to do and is why Abraham rejoiced to see it on mt moriah when he realised why he has a miracle born son isaac and a substitue caught in the thicket. the judgement is on the jews as a people ,we know the wisdom of god was that they be tipped out mong the gentiles to become such since god rejected thyem as his people so he could win them back as individuals through the gospel because the 70m weeks of years were fulfilled opening the way to righteousness snd holiness at last . The jewish extremidst leaders said let his blood be upon our heads and ourchildrens, god decide the childen should make up their owm minds or ar you against that?The reason jewish cultuer is as circled-wagons spiritually is to stop them hearing the shepherds voice. pharoah doesnt want to let them go. Gabril also told daniel the desolation will not end before the 'consumation'and they will reap what they sewed, so get used to it. it's the word of god. GE Edited: Joe, A. none of those quotes over-turn what Jesus said, is God divided against Himself? B. Prior to Jesus saying that He pronounced 8 woes upon the Jews in Matt. 23, A mere trifle perchance? Eight is the number of God. He fulfilled here that part of Daniel 9:27 "And for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate", the anti-Christ could not do that, people are confused about the right Prince, Jesus’ sacrifice stopped(fulfilled the law) the temple practice, that’s what He came to do. This is why Abraham rejoiced to see it on Mt. Mariah when he realized why he has a miracle born son Isaac and a substitute caught in the thicket. The judgment is on the Jews as a people, we know the wisdom of God was that they be tipped out among the Gentiles to become such C. since God rejected them as His people so He could win them back as individuals through the Gospel because the 70m weeks of years were fulfilled opening the way to righteousness send holiness at last. The D. Jewish extremist leaders said let His blood be upon our heads and our children, God decide the children should make up their own minds or are you against that? E. The reason Jewish culture is as circled-wagons spiritually is to stop them hearing the Shepherds voice. Pharaoh didn’t want to let them go. Gabriel also told Daniel the desolation will not end before the 'consummation' and they will reap what they sewed, F. so get used to it. It’s the Word of God. Wow, God give me some feathers! you make me feel like a plucked chicken. i wouldn't know how half the grogramming works, at leat my words are not upside down(that's the only one left to get wrong). Am I the stubbing toe of the body and you the artistic hand?

There are a lot of people who don't believe that the people in Israel today are actually descendants of Abraham (genetic Jews). Abraham was Syrian,so genetically they have to be Syrian but this still a matter of academic reason not faith . It's about faith that it is all based on not race , the 'door' in the gospel is not a DNA door. Of the two million that were called out of Egypt, two and only two entered the promised land and that was beased on the issue of faith not that they were not genetically qualified because those who went down into the earth when it opened up etc were geneticcally on the face of it qualified. believe God Brother as abraham did. All the descendants of ishmael are descended from Abraham as well as all those arab tribes that came out of his wife keturah. There are list of nations the tribes of israel were scatered into, I think its in Isaiah, and they are all muslim today and since there will be a highway from the area that is now northern iraq, and out of egypt to Jerusalem to celebrate and worship the king of kings, i wouldn't be presunptious about who makes it home in time and who is left out, those multi milliion will be a much greater return and they will woship the lord not stick ithe allah,andnot still reject the Son of god. The demand of god is we worship himonly not any land. We are to return to him and only in him are we going share eternity, Jesus seated at God' right hand put us right there, not a free trip to the holy land. We dont become born again Christians by flying into israel on a pilgrimage. All this shouldn't have to be said, the gopsel of salvationn is two thousand years old! But the good new is 'today' is still the day of 'salvation'. In the N.T. we are admonidhed to not waste time on endless geneoligies. I suspect when the gopel of the kingdom of god goes out to all the world it will seprarate the sheep from the goats and the threat of all opposition like the growing power of islam will just evapourate like smoke in the fresh air. Islam may simply collapse when the descendants of isarel all come out and if the jew is still in his filthy rags we can then appreciate why there wil be, not might be, weeping and hashing of teeth. The 'researchers won't find anything to get them home on because it's all in the word of God but the day of salvation has not yet closed. Jacob learnt this lesson the hard way that it is not by genetics. He wrestled all night because he misunderstood the word of godand the nature of God. he was looking for protection from Esau, he got nowhere because he approached god as Abrahams's grandson and heir and expected God to know him ( unfortunately he did know him and his trick that got the birthright, God let him get away with it at that time becuse he knew his sin would catch up with him, and that night he killed two birds with one stone). God does not compromise and He is the same today as yesterday. There will be no switching of scriptures. The lesson jacob learnt ,to cut the story short, is that God has no grandchildren we are either sons and daughters direct by faith or we are not. Jaob limped for the rest of his life to remind him God is a holy God.( the reason the angel smote him in the thigh was because the thigh symbolises the procreational power of man, ie genetics)

Thanks G.E.for your sharp eye, MY Mistake, I must be more careful. I have changed the 'not' to where is should have been. I will explain a bit more what i am saying. Abraham was told to prepare Isaacc not Jacob, Jacob was not miracle born as Jesus and Isaac were. We can see now Why God promised Abraham an impossible son, so he could demonstrate the purpose of His own Son's coming (as on Mt Moriah) and what it did to his heart in doing so. The gospel of salvation goes to the individaul not races and tribes as a unit and it is there the jew can find Salvation. A level playingfield as john the Baptist said jesus would make- lower the hills the valleys so no people can think they are untainted as all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, especially the Judahites and The Axe was laid at the root of their tree now the saviour had come because they has corrupted the word of God and bound their own people with heavy burdons. Jesus said nothing about the roman burdons as that came with the territory of Captivity and he was their way outbut they claimed caesar was thier king. The Spirit of God fishes them out with the Gentiles, there is No other way, One door ,one shepherd, one sheepfold, and when they come in, then, and only then can all israel be united (as one in His hand), meaning the division into two houses and jelousy over leadership will be healed. It was two by two those saved went into Noah's physical Ark but under the New Covennant we come in one by one into the Ark of the Body of christ. I have to say that glorifying the jew would make it harder fior them to come in. That certainly won't make them jealous! Jews and those who support them can publish infomation all they like about their DNA and the like but they never say anything about the tribes they should represent, Scripture remembers them, even Jesus in His revelations to John lists the tribes but the word 'Jew' scripture doesnt recall it at all, what tribe is that? It was introduced for academic reasons ( a judean or Judahite ) in the late18 hundreds and it casuses confusion and is taken advantage of. Jesus warned such would be rife in the later times. The Wisdom of God comes with the Holy Spirit, so why is there such lack of Wisdom today? Jesus covered that in decribing what happens when the foolish vrgins don't know the difference and find out too late and miss out. We can see here it's the same problem with the Jew and the foolish virgins, those who 'go in' cause judgement on the ones who thought they knew best and get let behind. God gives His Spirit to all believers, so it's still a level playing field for us, thus we badly need the gifts operating to preserve a plumb-line for the Body. Something inportant has just come to mind and i had to check my concordance, so I have to add another paragraph as this ties a few things together in all this. In the later verses of Zechariah12 we red about the indicidaul factor of the power of the gospel, where the 'jews' or rather the hebrew people looked upon jesus whom they pierced and their mouring (ZEchariah12:9-) across the region,( when the Gospel of the kingdom goes out out in the power of the Spirit before the end) the word 'apart' is used several times and i knew what the comordasnce would say and it did that 'apart' meant within the family,(alone, of each alike) here we see the shepherd speaking to all as individuals, families and wives( if plural ) apart, meaning each one hs to surrender to the lord to be saved as we personally know. Verse fourteen says 'all the families that 'remain' the word remain means 'remnant' that enduring factor from the beginnig to the end of the Biblical record. those who come with another gospal are thieves and liers. See why the gospel of the kingdom has to go out-- to clear all the garbage out of the way, because both Covenants have been corrupted. The more gems the Holy Spirit gives you it gets eassier to find others and often simple little words like 'apart' will come to mind, which we would tend to run right past otherwise. ( them that hath, shall get, them that hath not shall not get), yet we can buy without money, yes?

Hi bader, just some advise, and I am sure others that read this will agree. When you write a long post with not one sentence space or paragraph break, it becomes very tedious to read, and i am willing to bet 99% of members don't bother. Try putting in paragraphs, and your long thought out posts will probably then be read. As an example, compare the edit I did on your post above, to your original. And as an aside, George is the owner of Worthy, and he supports the site on the web. Thaks very much fez, I appreciate your time in this an your advice. idn't think of edit< I haven'r used it yet, because its a big enough task to just get something down coherently having to repetedly correct mistyped letters and missing ones. I have a partial imparment from a stroke and I have appologised for this perviously. i know i miss spacing after full stops and capital letters but that adds to the labour as well. It takes hours taking part and you get very tired plus the concentration to be as accurate or clear as you can. I didn't intend it to be so long, it just kept flowing and it was from the heart and not intended to offend, but i suspected it would be taken adversely in parts,'the warts and all'means the imperfections, we are still here in our earthly bodies. I suspected Goerge set this up, But I am not aware of any introduction of this for new people. My closing comment was meant to be alight-hearted one, as i mentioned e/mails are not a good conveyance of sentiment, Thanlks again.

I appreciate it is very difficult George but that cango for us as well.Jesus as a model did much more than acknowledged, according to the audience and thy need, there is correction, rebuke, admonition etc even reading the pedigrie to faces and using force to clear the temple, I believe he even bruised someones head, he even said he came to divide and where there is untruth truth will cause divisionand vise-versa. With all due respect maturity doesnt come through being model plastic people, i once attended whole church load of such practice.When groups of people all ride a bandwagon that corrupt the word of god passion of the iove of the truth is inflamed by their apparent innocent entusism which ends up looking like the guy who punched back began the fight. Somesweet-heart doctrines can be outright dangerous and subvert a wide spectrunm of understnding escpeciialy over prophecy to be fulfilled. its fine to have a watchman on the walls looking out but then we also need to be looking inwards as well because the church is weak without the gifts and callings, the tuth cannot be protectd by rules of conversation and behaviour, it can only be strong by letting it loose so it can do its job. It is offensive to be subjected to a rheam of wallpapered scriptures and not any commentary to substnstiate anything. that to me is being shouted down by those too deaf to hear what was said and to truth.To nswer all quotes is impossible ,thus the insult, it'salso anti-socail. Even then when you quote Jesus hinmself they ignore the conflict you have shown with what they braodcast as though what jesus said isnt important, they should not be in the inner court if they cant respect his words,they are not even interested in finding why there is a contradiction, no love of the truth and throw a whole lot of scriptures at you. its irractional and insulting but acceptable here. i wont be hitting the report button, like crying to mummy, i l answer as i see fit warts and all as i see relevant and the assertiveness naturally will go up accordingto the wall of arogance shoved at you. Jesus answerede with one incisive quote the true meaning and ended the issue, time after time, cannt imagine him mindlessly rattling of lots of verses, but people do it like literally throwing a bible at you. The principle of do unto others... cover it all. i find the appropriate manner of reply by those skilful in maturity teaches more than tying to polce things but that has to be learnt in a relatively uncontrolled enironment not that i advocate a town with no laws. Much like brimging up kids, there comes a time you have to keep your hands to yourself and let them fly, the eagles do it, the chicks have seen mum and dad take off and land thousands of times to know. Even if one receives an answer or reply not lovingly, the issue of truth comes first surely. If people dont love the truth they cant love God. I am not interested in being in a huggy group in outerdrkness, I guess there are many fine lines that blur in the heat of it. I m also very aware that even in common e/mails the wrong sentiment and undestandingcan be perceived much more sowhen one presses home the scripture or knoeldge with the best intentions the recepeint can feel slighted if they think they are corrected so maturity runs both ways.I personlly dont always asnwer the person but the issue for the benefit of the readers withot wanting to engage in debating, sometimes because you know they are not going to consider your comment when you see all their sails set and full steam ahead, so one can appear to be a little hard nosed.I find hiding behind persona is also anti-social. are we not'set free 'indeed'. You use your own name, my name is Peter, I use 'bader' because a grandchild of the neighbour when i was a child, peorbably still am, she couldnt say my name so it came out bader.I wont throw stones on your roof george but I can't promise you anything else.

nothing new here, more games within games, they all know there has to be a palestinian state so the un can move forward with Jerusalem.

No i didnt neb, i read the quote newsbot, what concernse me is the alleged 'drive' for democracy across the region seeems to be a cover for trubilation on the churches. patterns give the show away, thanks for lettiung me know israel is in israel, my mind gets ahead of my hands also.Something big is going on because while islam is looking like destroying itself its actually getting more powerful and cooperating with th Beast, so in the midst of all this who is caring about what happens to minorities like Christians?that's where i am coming from.

The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go. Acts 3:13 Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. Luke 23:34 The Words Of Jesus And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. Romans 11:26-29 Mean Life Itself For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15 You See? For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18 Hum.... And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. Zechariah 12:10 Original Joe, none of those quotes over-turn what jesus said, is god divided against himself? pior to Jesus saying that he pronounced 8 woes upon the jews in matt23, A mere triffle perchance? eight is the number of god.He fulfilled here that part of daniel 9;27 "and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate", the anti-christ could not do that, people are confuded about the right prince, jesus' sacrifice stopped(fulfilledthe law) the temple practice, thats what he came to do and is why Abraham rejoiced to see it on mt moriah when he realised why he has a miracle born son isaac and a substitue caught in the thicket. the judgement is on the jews as a people ,we know the wisdom of god was that they be tipped out mong the gentiles to become such since god rejected thyem as his people so he could win them back as individuals through the gospel because the 70m weeks of years were fulfilled opening the way to righteousness snd holiness at last . The jewish extremidst leaders said let his blood be upon our heads and ourchildrens, god decide the childen should make up their owm minds or ar you against that?The reason jewish cultuer is as circled-wagons spiritually is to stop them hearing the shepherds voice. pharoah doesnt want to let them go. Gabril also told daniel the desolation will not end before the 'consumation'and they will reap what they sewed, so get used to it. it's the word of god. GE Edited: Joe, A. none of those quotes over-turn what Jesus said, is God divided against Himself? B. Prior to Jesus saying that He pronounced 8 woes upon the Jews in Matt. 23, A mere trifle perchance? Eight is the number of God. He fulfilled here that part of Daniel 9:27 "And for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate", the anti-Christ could not do that, people are confused about the right Prince, Jesus’ sacrifice stopped(fulfilled the law) the temple practice, that’s what He came to do. This is why Abraham rejoiced to see it on Mt. Mariah when he realized why he has a miracle born son Isaac and a substitute caught in the thicket. The judgment is on the Jews as a people, we know the wisdom of God was that they be tipped out among the Gentiles to become such C. since God rejected them as His people so He could win them back as individuals through the Gospel because the 70m weeks of years were fulfilled opening the way to righteousness send holiness at last. The D. Jewish extremist leaders said let His blood be upon our heads and our children, God decide the children should make up their own minds or are you against that? E. The reason Jewish culture is as circled-wagons spiritually is to stop them hearing the Shepherds voice. Pharaoh didn’t want to let them go. Gabriel also told Daniel the desolation will not end before the 'consummation' and they will reap what they sewed, F. so get used to it. It’s the Word of God.

(Disclaimer: I'm using male pronouns, but I certainly do mean "he or she" in every case.) The NT prophet should be a lot more low-key than the OT prophet. He doesn't have to walk into church, march up to the front during a service, bang his staff on the ground, and begin with "Thus saith the Lord..." Most of the "prophets" that you see (or read on the internet) believe that they are an OT prophet with plenty of "new" revelations and such. They set themselves apart with their "secret knowledge" and dole it out for maximum shock value. The NT prophet is more like a Guidance Counselor. They observe behavior and trends, compare them to scripture, synthesize possible outcomes using their Gift, and report those outcomes to the people involved. They are a lot more Christlike than their OT counterparts, telling stories to explain and using gentleness to admonish most of the time, but being capable of bluntly pointing out what they know if that is necessary to reach people's hardened hearts. A NT prophet isn't a hermit with a hair shirt either. He has to be deeply involved with people as a brother so those people learn to trust his "intuitions". A good NT prophet rarely gives anyone a prophecy. He just gives his brothers and sisters good advice with scriptural backing. He also shouldn't be bashful about what he knows. A small nudge early might be all that is necessary to correct some behavior, rather than waiting for the problem to become so serious that only a very harsh rebuke will work. Holding your prophecy in, and warning people with statements like "You can't handle what I know." does not serve God's Kingdom at all. In fact, it is counter-productive. A NT prophet doesn't announce to the world that he has the gift of prophecy. It should just be obvious that he has powerful insight to the extent that people will quietly ask him "why are you so wise?" Then, you can explain the NT gift and how he came to believe that he has that gift. The NT gift of prophecy is one of the highest in the heriarchy of gifts, and as Peter Parker (Spiderman) tells us, "With great power comes great responsibility." FRom what i see in the O.T prophets do what they are told to do and one was instructed to marry a prostitute, the worldly wise believer would reject him for that if he didnt like his messge. so all those who know what a prophet is and does, must have been one to know, becaue they are not all the same to make up a predictable programme, some sound like they are making a defence screen before hand to rejct any prophet for an excus to please themslves. The prophet is vindicated by the lord who recruited him and broke him down and rebuilt him. we defy the vinidication at our peril obviously. If someone makes a prophcy to help someone that is th gift not the office and even a good teacher could expound scripture to the point of being thought more highly of.Somone mentioned watchman nee as a pophet on another thread, I can not agree. The obvious check is what what he said came to pass or someone with a git confirms it. The samaritan woman knew jesus wasa great pophet because he told he details of her personal life, she had married set of brothers one after an otherand the exact number, as was the israel tradition and because the lord lead her out there with a bucket in the mid-day heat looking like an idiot, she took a bucket and jesus told he about rivers of living water, she couldn't miss could she, unless she had s presumption? God vinicatd her calling by using Jesus, how many in the city had thought she was a crank? other tell tale may be discerning thoughts and the condition of the heart beware presumption.

Original: There is only one faith, Abel and Abraham had it and neither was a jewsince there was no such people as jews then, Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see his day and he was crucified for saying that and that he lived prior to abaraham .By faith are we saved not by race or DNA,it's in Isaac nor jacob and the word of god makes that clear so why do pople push it aside and worship the Zews. the jews have an atrocious record and stilll do!On the eve of jesus' crucifiction he said they would 'remain desolate', do jesus' words mean nothing! can he be insulted and christians sit by an gloat in confusion and silence! Abraham means 'father of nations'even jerusalem was intended for all nations to worship the god of Abraham. GE Edited: There is only one faith, Abel and Abraham had it and neither was a Jew since there was no such people as Jews then. Jesus said Abraham rejoiced to see His day and He was crucified for saying that. Jesus lived prior to Abraham. By faith are we saved not by race or DNA, it's in Isaac not Jacob. And the Word of God makes that clear so why do people push it aside and worship the Jews? The Jews have an atrocious record and still do! On the eve of Jesus’ crucifixion He said they would 'remain desolate'. Do Jesus’ words mean nothing? Can Jesus be insulted and Christians sit by and gloat in confusion and silence!? Abraham means ”Father of Nations” even Jerusalem was intended for all nations to worship the God of Abraham.

The letters to the churches dont give much comfort on this overview, with Jesus standing outside the last one trying to get in,.Anti-christ confriming the old covenent for one week yet breaks it in the middle which means its not confirmed for a week but three and a half days!All the bad pople have migrated to the extremities of the eath, so all the good guys are in the USand the middl eat,right? Brian said 'Oh brother' i say oh brother what a mess.Heck even a vague view of history shows satan hasnt ben retired at all for the last thousand years or the one before it. meanwhile the word of god is being put the shame.

bryanw92 If that is true, then we are missing one of the ministry offices, and that greatly effects the perfecting of the saints. Or. You might need to leave the house more and find a Church that believes what the Word says. Belief is not based on what is seen, but what is written. Jesus Is Lord. I differentiated between the Office of Prophet and the Gift of Prophecy. Even if I am wrong and the Office of Prophet still exists, I explained why we never hear from them, or ignore them when they speak. Insults yours are the reason why no prophets speak out. Any prophecy might offer a new interpretation of scripture, and that always brings out the horde of prooftexters who tell them go find a church that believes the conventional interpretation. Thank you for illustrating the problem so well. You are getting warm bryan and you are right there are two distinct functions, one being an office, the fact so many are confused reflects the state of the church.Jesus supplied these for his in bride to be perfected for his wedding, but dont think anyone God will allow him to be cheated and get a madonna,scripture shows god is very jealous of his Son and in this gospel age he is to be glorified and that includes in the wedding, if the guy who was not properly dressed was sent into outer darkness the church better believe jesus and the specially sellected writings that compile the New testament. This is as valid as any measure to base the great apostacy on of the church on as warned about. I liked danielzk's point about israel rejeting god as their king, the church leaders have done in this Era ( error) PUN INVITED, The church in the main has settled for a one size fits all pastorship or ministerhood and rejected what Jesus provided. {{{ Removed attack on Moderators please follow the ToS. }}} there is no wasted space in the parables. We dont live by every word do we? We all have gone astray. From the WCF ToS... If you have a problem with any of the Moderators or Chat admin, please keep it private. The moderation team serves this ministry on a voluntary basis. They are human beings and make mistakes. If you disagree with one of their decisions, make use of the PM system or email or the Repost Post button to get satisfaction. (Matt. 18:15) This is a privately funded message board, we reserve the right to edit or remove any postings that we feel are detrimental to the fellowship on this board, or detrimental to the witness of the board, as we see fit. It is not possible to read every post. If you see a board violation, please report it using the “Report Post” button.

that essay represents many hours o f work and is not intended as a sideshow for throwing wooden balls. i doubt nyone is capable of doing the same subject and survive the gauntlet, i certainly wouldnt try. I thinkthere are too many things to be revealed yet to to go even close and those issue questioned and answered are aslo found out jut s easy to be in error somewhere. i think its little like trying to pin thetail on the donkey of the date of the end, we cant know the day or hour but we certinly can know the season and that's about all that can be achieve without some prophrtic break throughs in season. Whether or not obama is the ac is not goimg to be a sure thing for anyone who squwints into every piece of informtion they can lay their hands on, but no one has pushed the question like he has even though many thought adolf hitler was thought to be at one stage but then even he was compared to george bush by manyincluding myself with much to go on. Daniel 9 is a specific subject chapter in its own right, God doesnt drift off on a tangent for two thousand years +out of context like we do, daniel was inteceding for his people according to Jeremiahs prophecy, its a stand alone subject and every christian born again of the gospel of salvation should see it for what it is. As long as people ignore contexts they are wonder stars without a home, we make enogh mistakes doing our best without being careless. I trhink there is a lot of subtle details not even recognisd yet that have to be clarified. Like the anti-achrist is the eighth beast out of the seven and those seven are the seven kings that the city /woman sits on.It is from out of ancient history, starting before the flood.The fact they survived god's judgemeny (flood )puts them in the plce they are an anti-christ claiming they survived death as jesus did,the deadly wound that was healed and came alive again, in the ancient babylon and egyption religions the pharoagh for example had to die and croos the milkyway by boat ( a lying wonder depicting noah and the flood judgement and he is born again in the east, this is where reincarnation and the new age are descended from. Time has taken us full circle and nimeods attmpt to create a one world govrnment and religion is at the door again.the old beast of the past the 8th will come out of the abyss and clsim he had conquered death how else can he calim to be christ. There is heap of other stuff still to be found and i expect many think i am talking though a hole in my keyboard, I am not a doctor tom Horn.

I agree. The Great Apostacy is upon us. The process of washing away the influence of the church is nearly complete. The next item on the agenda is the establishment of a throne for a man of ancient names and titles. This person will attempt to usurp the purposes of God on earth and to claim fully and officially the title of god of this world. There will be no rapture, no fantastic escape from the wickedness that will be unleashed upon Israel, for at that point all of the wrath of the enemy will focus. The great events soon to be seen will be wars and victories (and defeats) that will allow the man of sin to ascend his dark throne. In those days the last vestiges of liberty and truth and the tissue of righteousness that men possess will be swept away. Wisdom and her gifts will depart from the leaders of this world. We are witnessing the last days of the whore of Babylon. The harbingers of judgment are upon us. Repentance and humility before the throne of the Almighty are the things God wants to hear. If God does not judge America, then He owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology. but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... I agree with you an could add more... But I won't for now.

It's about time this was repoted. ten years ago A lebanese website reported five sixth of the palestinain christians had left theregion for a safer place to live. behind all the struggle for power across the middle east the church is targeted and i wonder with the focus of the media that chistians are not praying for thir own but one of the combatants. The prophet zechriah tells us the whole world is gathered against jerusalem, but most people expect that to be in a literl sense only. When the U.N. decided they would make tha city their international city in 1947, they represented the world.Today its still unfinished business as netanyahu plays tug-o-war with the u.n. i suggest that the push for a palestinian state is to get a signature for what is planned for that city since they cant be left out, an international legal issue, so why is this all kept out of the publicknowledge, I also suggest this is tied to the fct israel were not alloewed to take over the tempole mount in 1967. There is an elephant in the room and he is wearing wallpaper.

I believe Turkey is a part of the coalition that attacks Israel in Ezekiel 38, so you may have something there. However, I'm not sure about the Pergamum correlation? "The throne of Satan" is referring to the Temple of Zeus that was there in the ancient city at the time. It's in Germany now if I remember right.... You remember correctly. I'm impressed. Most folks have no knowledge of this subject at all. A full sized copy of the outer face or facad of the temple of Pergamun was built in Berlin by Hitler's administration. Not the whole building. Its now a museum I think. Oddly, the structure wasn't damaged by all the WWII bombing and shelling. Everything else was blasted to bits. Strange. Revelation 2:12 says that Pergamun is the throne of satan. You know that Biblical references to satan indicate that this personality is a living spirit, not stone legend or illusory figure. I can't find any correlation or equivalent in scripture or scholarly interpretations maintained between the pagan religion there and Biblical references to satan. Such references are indeed made in the old testament - the family of baal gods, for example. I've some very interesting information on the baal family, but that would distract from the current discussion. Suffice it to say that the Bible makes specific references in the O.T., but not about Pergamun. Pergamun is in Turkey as you are aware. Ankara is the current capital, but for many years it was Instanbul - the capital of the caliphate of the Ottoman Empire. Before that it was Constantinople - named for the first Christian emperor of the Roman Empire and before that it was called Byzantium. It is truly an ancient city. When the Roman Empire was divided in the fourth century, Byzantium became the capital of the eastern empire as Rome remained capital of the western empire. History recorded the fall of Rome in 476. Oddly, the history DECLINE AND FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE was published in the same year as our nation's birthday 1776. Have our people and politicans paid any attention to the lessons taught in the pages of that book? Apparently not. The western empire collapsed in the fifth century, BUT the eastern empire continued for centuries. Because its capital was Byzantium, it came to be called the Byzantine Empire, but it was still based on Roman law and tradition. The rise of Islam in the seventh century and encroachment upon the lands and administration of the Byzantine Empire not to mention corruption and incompetance of leadership led to the capture of Constantinople by Mehmed II in the fifteenth century, establishing the Ottoman state there. The Ottoman Empire continued until 1922 when the modern nation of Turkey was established. So you see, the ancient Roman Empire continued in one form or another as a viable political entity and from the same capital city until 1922 - the beginning of the twentieth century. As a result, many in Turkey ardently desire a return to the greatness of leadership of the Islamic nations BY MEANS OF A NEW CALIPHATE. Biblical references to end times political alignments refer to something resembling a revived Roman Empire. Many western interpretations agree on this point. What is missed, however, is that there is an absolutely HUGE number of Christians from the eastern branches of the faith. The orthodox religions of Russia and Greece are almost invisible when considered by western apologists. In the minds of the western divisions of Christendom the only debate is between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism. What about the east? It is as if interpretations have miopic vision. They don't see it at all. Similarly, the eastern Roman empire is invisible too. The history of that section simply isn't taught with as much depth as western history. It's like reading the history of people on another planet. We have all read arguments that pretend to justify the city of Rome as the choreographer of end times wickedness. Ankara isn't even a consideration, yet the ancient Roman Empire DID continue to exist until very recent modern times. What about that? No one speaks or writes to it. Well, almost no one. Consider Turkey. This European state is the only one that is actually prospering in the midst of continental corrupt and failed financial policies. The rest of Europe is teetering on the edge of collapse. This includes Italy. If interpretations of Rome as the capital of a revived Roman Empire were correct, then Rome would be prospering. Even Roman religion is shuddering under constant attacks and internal misdeeds. The church of Rome is constantly apologizing for one thing or another - not a strong position to rule its own people much less those of a growing empire. Turkey has an increasingly militant view regarding its insinuations into middle east politics. Like it or not they are assuming a major role there. The wise man will WATCH TURKEY. but that's just me, hollering from the choir loft... This is a very worthy and topical subject and i commend the comment on the short-sightedness towards the eastern church not being recognised and would like to include those across the Arab world currently being destroyed in the wars seeded and armed from the west, Syria being the current victim, where there is some very significant christian hidtory. Forces are at workchanging facst onthe ground at our expence. i don't however equate Perganum with turkey because it is in the country. perganum was the seat o f satan becuse the crown of the king of Babylon wa taken there after the fall to the medes an persians. That triple tiered crown was later taken to Rome and today is the popes crown which is where their blasphemous claim of being king of the world temporal and spiritual comes from. That bablylonian preisthood and the crown were rerest in pergnum when John wrote.The Wahingtom dome is also a salute to zeus, Dr Horn in his book Apollyon Arising covers this and links it to rome which washington is modelled on. Washington was originlly called rome.Obama made some very pointed vidits in Germany prior to his first election and i believe it inclued the nazi portal/stargate, as it probbly was seen as to them. he did it openly so there was no response, same withe the re-swearing in was done without the bible, no response, knock knock anyone at home? Turkey does desire to restore past glory as saddam hussein in rebuiling Babylons great creations.But there appears to be a pecking order and the Bishop of rome rejected Constantinople as their head. Rome has 180 ambassadors offices , how many has turkey got and who has kept turkey out of the union but kept in NATO.to use. the Zionists could turn Turkey into dog meat tomorrow by unleashing the kurds, I suspect they are doing the dirty on Syria to buy credits in the game. Jewish muslims have controlled Turkey since the 'young turks'. The church will be the losers in all the upheavals along with other minorities. this is so easy with the christians world not recognised outside those who speak English. Ask them if there is to be a tribulation and when does it start. Turkey refuses to acknowledge the genocide ofArmenian christians a century ago who were largely the Apostolic church, it's like the west can only sympathise with jews not christians.Histoy shows that there is a price for neglect and self satisfaction as the people of Sodom found out.Fifty five US Churches signed a petition of non suppoort of george bushe's foreign policy at a brazilian intrnational meeing severl years ago, so it's not all bad. how do we compete with lies an peopaganda beamed into everyones home s every day 7 days a week, I cant watch it because it mkes me furious,epecially when three highly paid people disect all the issues and dumb it all down.Intelligence and conscience collapse under the overload.But that i just me whistling out of my letterbox.

Hello 'peacefulwidow, the tipping ponit of war has come and gone like the four seasons year after year. The consequences are diabolocal for any side as well as collapse the world economy. The price to destroy iran as russia is too high, that is the most affordable defence, the only winners of this childish nonsense are the speculators who own the oil bousres and we all pay at the pumps for this senstational reporting,Journalits still refer to the president of iran calling for irael to be wiped of the map, which is total fiction , he never said it at all, two websites published the english trans lation of his speach at the time and the words were not there.we have been subjected to blatant lies for years and christians need to be the ones who expose it for the world in darkness not help keep them in the dark.I reject all the claims that iran will be destroyed or invaded becuse god said through jeremiah49:39 'But it will come about in the lt daysthat i will restore the fortunes of Elam, decalres the lord." Elam is the s.w. of iran where i believe the oil deposits are and the nuclear powerststion is being built.their policy id to sell the oil for foreign currency to deveople the nation and use nucler power for energy. IN verse 38 God said he would destroy out of it the kings and princes, that was fulfilled in 1979 by their revolution against the Zionist stooge the shar. I onfirmed thst with a Iranian journalist the anciant royal line ended then fully for the first time in history. By the same tokin i believe the embargo Also has to fail because god's word cannot fail. Elam was a son of Shem.The Zionists used Saddam Hussein to try and destroy iran in an 8 year warfter the rvolution and failed. then they destroyed iraq through george bush who claimed god called him to presecute war on iraq. One of the goals of the revolution which is quite easy to detect is to prevent the iranian people from becoming decadent like what has happened to the west, I give them credit because we have been blind and well as stupid and they have learnt from our lessons we have yet to recognise. a collapse of the US and the west with it's more likely than the failure of prophecy. i know of of no perophecy that cam protect the US with its capital full of pagan symbols whicch Dan brown used to make a successful novel- The lost symbol. While America has been threatening iran jesus has been appearing to iranians in their dreams and converting them. The first line of verse 38 says"I shall set my throne in elam", do Americans want to pr-empt Iran from becoming Christian by war?The symbols in Washington say yes. food for thought?

I agree with you this is rumour of war,only i think the word rumour is better rendered 'threats' of war. Iran has been under threat from nuclear powers since 2003, consider how they feel. we had years of llies about saddams WMD which was also another threat of war.they proved to be false to justify war. The retaliation against iran if it did attack israel would be suicidal since NATO, the US and israel with hunfreds of nuclear warheads of their own would destroy it many times over. Iranians are a nation od young people who have a zest for life not death The same religious leader has said nuclear weapons are against their beliefs,so why not believe that also?Nuclear wespons are not the most fearful of moderm weapoms anyway. electro-magnetid science based ones are.Clinton's secretary of defence RUBIN refereed to these in a conderence on terrorosm in 1997, that's some time ago and these new breakthroughs are never allowed out into thye public domain within a decade of issue so people are not frightened by it. nor let the enemy know. It's not a new subjet.it is based alegely upon tesla's breakthroughs. there are two types, one is called Haarp which you can goggle, i cant remember the other off hand, it's an old subject,I think the Nazis were first to start recearching this field which may be why Hitler lost interst in atom bombs. The masons are aslo waiting for a messiah and that will be tied in withe the new ageers and the 21/12/12 new consciousness etc, then further over we have the jesus and mary family thing tied in with a jewish cult that has had a messiah claim in the past, the jews have has many since jesus' days. Given the inbalance of nuclear power , can you image iran and russia swooping down upon israel living in 'peace', as Ezekial is allegedly saying? Jews living witout walls! what is that 22'concrete wall? a grafitti-theatre gift to Palsetinian children so they will stop throwing stones and damaging tanks .ETHiopia is not a satelite of russia either.This was very popular during the Cold war but the prophecy books ended up in the second hand book shops in the eighties.They were going to invade the US as well as Israel. I recommend for the first line of defence for chritians is a healthy tongue-in-cheek disposition, then common sense followed by scripture unadultrated by popular fads.I suspect the ezekial prophevy relates to the 'king of assyria' that god said he would destroy in the holy land in the end.he represents a demonic prince of great power who is behimd those who have come from thr other side of the flood..Gog and magog for instamce are legendry giants , as before and after the flood, that are guardians of the city of london, the City parade wicker figures of them as part of a traditional parade which the city cliams is not serious, but then the masons are also linked to the city so there is more to it.The 'city' is a city state .the ancient model is a temple-tresury that developed after the flood, the model and secret societies surviving the the flood and eventually become Babylon that survives through the 4 beasts shown to Danial.Bare these basic points in mind and you will be amazed at what starts to emerge if you read widely.

Thanks for the translation of the word eschatology, but we also need the translation of that long greek word which is misleading to call it the 'second coming because jesus comes 'near' unseen by the world before He comes in sight of all. AD 70 is no where near the end of the prohecies and it was judgment for jerusalem only not the world opposed the christwhen he comes as king of kings. If I recall right the word parosia, spelling wrong, means 'to receive near'. The excat terms are in scripture but unfortunatekly people stay suck in the mindtracks of popular preaching and the holy spirit is over-ruled to evryones loss. Jsus talked about havingo go away but would come again, JOHN 14:3 adds to john 13:33, it's too much for me to type it all out sorry please look it up, in esence jesus had to go away to the father after the resurrectiuon but not for long. the reason they couldnt go was he hadnt sent the holy Spirirt, which he was going away for. from verse 3to 4 he is saying when the Spirit is come then we will undestndnwhere he went and where he is, ie in the father on ahis R hand, that we also may be there in Him, not in a mansion!. Now we get into the key part in chap 15 verse 16 to 18, you have to prevent the tapes from p;laying back with all the old repeats of what has been taght to hear what the Spirit is saying. God provided His Spirit to gide us into all truth , not a memory to over ride the spirit because your mind replays what people have said that they did not hear fromthe spirit. revelation bythe spirit of the word is the rock, the sure word of prophecy, the church is built on. not popular preachers.so 16 says the spirit abides forever, he dwells in us representing the father and son, since we are in christ in the father, in v18 jesus catigoricallysays he will come to us, if we 'receive hin near' the world not seeing this. So on the day of pentiucost The spirit is the 'vehicle' by which jesus came to the body so we are in him,the tonge of fire rested on everyone, you are not excluded, in the father and the order for this is following water baptism, this whole operation was messed up by the obsession with tongues. the evidence of the holy Spirit is him reveling the spirit of the word his essential role, because jesus said he would build his church on this. jesus is the 'fulness of the God head bodily and what he has said in these scriptures repeats this as his funess is shared personally with everyone of us, that's your heritage and mine, and every born again christian should have been taught this. This subject is the longest dsiscourse i believe that jesus made yet no one teachers it and very clerly jesus went to great pains to explain why he was going away , because his leaving wass via the cross and that would be traumatic for them, and he said the spirit would bring what he said their memory in understandingafter he came.He spoke for three chapters and the the 4th,the17th chapter he prayed for its fulfillment which came at penticost. Since jesus gave this great privilege to us each one , it is our personal responsibility to know the truthand not just sit in a pew and play tape-recorders. the price paid was too high for such a blessing. MY spelling ns typing are rough but i have had a stroke and got off lightly.Be blessed.

People don't have to "materialize" things to create idols for themselves. All they have to do is treat anything or anyone with more attention, respect, or fame than they do God, and ... voila! They have an idol! That can be money, the TV, some baseball, football, basketball, hockey, or soccer player, or a movie star, or even a famous politician! (That can even be ONESELF!) If you show respect to ANYONE more than you do to God, you have an idol. The temple details and priestly garments may have REPRESENTED something else, but that does not mean that they are ALLEGORICAL! Simple symbolism is one thing; trying to find symbolism in everything is quite another! And, just because a very real temple or a very real garment stood for something else, it doesn't mean that the temple or garment was less real! There will be quite a bit of symbolism in the New Jerusalem, I'm sure; however, that doesn't make the city any less real! It WILL exist (probably already does), and it's very real dimensions are HUGE! I agree with you about the Greek word "monai" translated "mansions." As the plural of "monee," it does mean a "place of residence" or a "room"; however, that too doesn't make them any less real! I believe that's where Yeshua` is today. He is in the New Jerusalem literally making more rooms for those who are becoming God's children! Finally, I have a bone to pick with you. You said, "They that have my spirit these, saith he, are mine." I've done quite a bit of searching in the Scriptures for this "verse," and have come up empty. It SOUNDS good, but book, chapter, and verse, please. If one is to quote Scripture, it is always best to give a reference so others can check it out for themselves. It's not enough, when it comes to "quoting" Scripture, to get close but not quite right. MY comments were not intended to make anything less real. The point about making physical representations is making images and idols which God detests. Some people are verty insiteful about recognising types etc and produced very helpful books, the key issue re: mansions is the Body of Christ, it is the preveleg od abiding in the Son as he was abiding in the Father which He pronmised he would extend to us by the coming of the holy Spirit. Abiding is spiritual not a physivcal place. The presentation John saw of the city is the sum total of all those in christ's body, various charcteristics will glorify that body as to glorify the son. I appologize for the non-reference, I couln't find it either but it is a strong recalling quote that like many that pop up. It may have originated in a hymn or a popular saying of a pastor but it is veryscriptural otherwise I wouln't use it, 1 JOHN4:13'Hereby know we that we dwell in him nd he in us, because he has givenus of His Spirit" which is the exact abiding in/dwelling referred to previously. Devils can quote scripture but cant duplicate god's spirit whereby we are sealed.

there ws no name to which this is addressed so i ignored it. can i please know forwhat this is sbout?

The math of a pearl? That depends on what you are looking for. Mathematics is just a way to identify the relationships between physical things. Matthew 13:45 is a parable about the KINGDOM! That's NOT the "church" or people or any such thing. The Kingdom from the sky is being compared to the MERCHANT MAN, not the pearl! Yeshua` IS that merchant or investor. What this verse is saying is that when Yeshua` is reigning in Isra'el beginning in the Millennium, the King will be able to make incredible investments and always come out in the black no matter how much He invests. He could sink His entire wealth into a venture and come out "smelling like roses." Now, if you want to talk about the gates of the New Jerusalem, which are also said to be pearls, those gates are very intriguing. Revelation 21:10-27 10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; 12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb. 15 And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof. 16 And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal. 17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel. 18 And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. 19 And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald; 20 The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst. 21 And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. 22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. 23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. 24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. 25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there. 26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. 27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. KJV Why would the city have twelve gates that are never used? They will always stand open! Notice: Verse 21 says that the twelve gates were twelve pearls. It does NOT say that they were LIKE pearls nor does it say that they were made out of pearls! It says that each gate (every several gate) was from ONE PEARL! We get our real pearls today from oysters, although we also have manufactured pearls. However, the God who made the oysters planned how their immune systems would create the pearls. Therefore, if God wants to make huge pearls like their lesser counterparts, God would certainly know how to create them. However, once again, there are twelve of these huge pearls, and they always stand open! What is their purpose? Well, at the risk of sounding too simple, generally speaking pearls are ROUND! How does one open or shut a round gate? One would ROLL the gate away from the doorway! I believe that each of these twelve gates commemorate the RESURRECTION of Yeshua`! Notice, too, that each gate is always attended by a messenger, an "angel!" And, I believe that is why these gates always stand open. The stone is forever rolled away from the tomb! How's that for "math?" i LIKE IT, you make it gt better, ONE SEWS AND ANOTHERREEPS, YOU REEPED 12 PEARLS FROM ONE .Pearls grow in the shell LIKE A BABY IN THE WOMB reminds me of the Sscripture Psalm40:7 "behold i come in the scroll of the book it is written of me," I am thinking of l, those prophecies of the Messiah through the Old Testsment whih when come to maturity were perfect representtion of thefather as Jesus nudged philiiip about when he sked him to show us the father. thanks I enjoyed that.