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When it comes to the topic of "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH", Shoebat is looking at scripture from a very different viewpoint than Jesus Christ, the Apostle John and several Old Testament prophets. As such, his false teachings in regards to the same ought to be shunned.

I'm sorry to have to be the one to break the news to you, but Walid Shoebat is a liar. Oh, there's no need to take my word for it. No, you can hear and see him lying right here for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzUXuu6Tre8 In one interview, Shoebat claims to have been a Muslim terrorist who threw a bomb into a bank that exploded and in another interview he says that he never threw the bomb. Not only this, but the man has been investigated and a whole bunch of his claims simply don't add up (neither does much of his theology, although he is correct about some things): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJN00dBhZVk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSwr8eGTyiM

I'm just wondering why you are so sure of yourself in what you post. I believe you think your opinion is the right one? May I ask where you studied to get all the right answers? Thank you I'll ask you the same question that I just finished asking the other poster: Did you read posts #6, 7 & 8 on this thread? There, I've only just begun to offer irrefutable (unless you believe that you can refute it from scripture) evidence that "the woman" is JERUSALEM and no one else. Anyhow, to answer your question, I studied the Bible, with the help of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth. Let's not make this about "me", okay? I've offered you a bunch of scriptures already. If you believe that you can refute even one of them, from scripture, then please do so. Thank you.

The woman isn't necessarily Jerusalem, but it may be the government under Rome or the Antichrist something like the U.N or the Vatican. God's people are ordered to come out of her. The woman sits on many waters (Revelation 17:1). In prophecy or perhaps among the Israelites, the sea represents the troubled world of the Gentiles. This may imply that the woman or Babylon the great, has total domination over the Gentile world. Something like a world government. A government like the Babylon of Nimrod's time in the book of Genesis. Did you read posts #6, 7 & 8 on this thread? That's just a sample of irrefutable (unless you believe that you can refute the same from scripture) evidence that "the woman" is JERUSALEM and no one else. Again, it's just a sample...I can very easily offer more proof of the same from scripture.

Yes, I want to know and if God didn't want us to know, too, then He wouldn't have included warnings about the same in scripture.

A big mistake that a lot of people make is in conflating the woman who rides atop the beast and the beast. They are not one and the same. Personally, I agree that the beast is Rome, Papal Rome, to be exact, and the woman is Jerusalem.

Speaking of 8's, each letter of the Greek alphabet has a corresponding numerical value attached to it. Well, seeing how the New Testament was written in Greek, what do you suppose the numerical value of Jesus' name is in the Greek? It's 888.

Before you go and before this thread is closed, I hope that you recognize that you were in error in regards to some of the things which you posted in your OP and that you'll adjust your beliefs accordingly.

It's a good thing that you PM'd me, otherwise I wouldn't have found this thread. IOW, when I clicked on your "posts", it didn't come up. It did come up, however, when I clicked under "topics" in your profile.

Actually the sources that make that claim are mistaken. First of all Paul quotes directly from the book of Luke in I Tim. 5:18. He quotes from Luke 10:7. Luke based his Gospel on being able to interview eye witnesses to Jesus' ministry. Precisely. In fact, Paul refers to it as "scripture", so this tells us that Luke's gospel was already in written form at this point in time and that Paul wasn't merely reiterating something which Luke had said to him in their travels together. I Timothy 5:18 "For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward."

Hi, JTC. If we back up just a bit in John chapter 6, then we read: John 6:4 "And the passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh." Jesus was ever aware of His audience and His surroundings and it is no coincidence that John mentioned how that "the Passover, a feast of the Jews, was nigh" before recording Jesus' words about "eating His flesh". IOW, seeing how the Passover pointed to Christ, in type, with Christ being the True Passover Lamb (I Cor. 5:7), Jesus was merely letting His hearers know that they would need to truly partake of Him in order to be saved. He wasn't teaching any sort of cannibalistic doctrine.

Hi. I just saw this and, yes, I did begin to address this in the Shoebat thread. For anybody who is interested in reading the same, here is a link:

Whatever the chant may or may not mean, Jesus has given us authority over demons, so I'd recommend that you focus more on that aspect than on trying to understand what a demon might be saying. IOW, concentrate on getting rid of the demonic presence through the authority of Christ.

The ECF's (early church fathers) had an entirely different understanding in relation to "the number of his name" and, in this case, I agree with them. IOW, they understood that letters of the Greek, Hebrew and Latin alphabets also had numeric values attached to them, so they were looking for someone whose "name" would contain letters which, when added together, equaled 666. One of the more popular beliefs of today in relation to the same, especially amongst SDA's (Seventh Day Adventists), and a position which I currently hold to myself (for many reasons), even though I'm not a SDA, has to do with a question and answer from the April 18, 1915 edition of "Our Sunday Visitor", a Catholic journal. There, we read: For those of you who remember your "Roman numerals", the following values are ascribed to the following letters of the Latin alphabet: I = 1 V = 5 X = 10 L = 50 C = 100 D = 500 Also, in the Latin alphabet, the "U" is actually a "V", so the title or "name" would read as the following: V = 5 I = 1 C = 100 A R I = 1 V = 5 S F I = 1 L = 50 I = 1 I = 1 D = 500 E I = 1 Add the totals together and you get: 112 + 53 + 501 = 666 Anyhow, this aside, there are many Biblical reasons to be looking towards the Vatican for the fulfillment of the antichrist.

Change your opening sentence to read "I've been a believer for about 25 years now" and leave everything else that you said intact and you've basically described my life. If there's something wrong with you, then I caught it about 10 years before you did.

I have much more to add in order to prove, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that "Mystery, Babylon" cannot possibly be any place other than Jerusalem, but I simply don't have the time to do so now. Lord willing, however, I will add to this thread at a later time.

Revelation 17:1-6 "And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." Somebody once said (I'm paraphrasing) that to attempt to understand the New Testament without having a foundational understanding of the Old Testament first is like trying to build a roof on a house without first building the house to support it. IOW, when we come to the book of Revelation (or any part of the New Testament, for that matter), that is not the place to begin our quest for truth, especially since there are multiple references to the Old Testament found throughout this New Testament book. These New Testament references as to how this "woman" is "arrayed" have deep significance, IF one understands what was written in the Old Testament and especially in reference to the high priest and how he was "arrayed". We read: Exodus 28:1-8 "And take thou unto thee Aaron thy brother, and his sons with him, from among the children of Israel, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office, even Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's sons. And thou shalt make holy garments for Aaron thy brother for glory and for beauty. And thou shalt speak unto all that are wise-hearted, whom I have filled with the spirit of wisdom, that they may make Aaron's garments to consecrate him, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And these are the garments which they shall make; a breastplate, and an ephod, and a robe, and a broidered coat, a mitre, and a girdle: and they shall make holy garments for Aaron thy brother, and his sons, that he may minister unto me in the priest's office. And they shall take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine linen. And they shall make the ephod of gold, of blue, and of purple, of scarlet, and fine twined linen, with cunning work. It shall have the two shoulder-pieces thereof joined at the two edges thereof; and so it shall be joined together. And the curious girdle of the ephod, which is upon it, shall be of the same, according to the work thereof; even of gold, of blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen." I'll stop here for now and then come back to the Old Testament description of the high priest's garments in a minute. The high priest's garments contained the following: gold blue purple scarlet fine twined linen Now, compare how the high priest was "arrayed" to how this "woman" was "arrayed" in the book of Revelation: Revelation 17:4 "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls..." Okay. Both the high priest and "the woman" share the following: gold purple scarlet Right now, it seems as if this "woman" is missing both "the blue" and "the linen", but "the linen" can be found in a further description of this "woman" in the next chapter of Revelation, where we read: Revelation 18:15-16 "The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing, And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!" Well, there's the "fine linen", but we're still missing "the blue"...and for good reason. Allow me to explain. In the Old Testament, there were many "types" given. IOW, certain things were "types" or "representations" of other things and the colors which we're presently examining were certainly numbered among such "types". In reference to the significance of "the blue" in scripture, we read: Numbers 15:37-40 "And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue: And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a-whoring: That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God." Through Moses, God instructed the children of Israel to put "a ribband of blue" or a twisted thread of blue upon the fringe of the border of their garments and this "ribband of blue" was to be a reminder unto them to "remember all the commandments of the LORD and do them" so that they would not "go a-whoring" after other gods. With such in mind, it is extremely significant that the only color which is missing from the "array" of this "woman" in Revelation is "blue". IOW, now matter how "religiously arrayed" this "woman" is, her distinguishing feature is that she doesn't "keep the commandments of God" (which is exactly what the missing "blue" represents) and has therefore "gone a-whoring" (She is, after all, "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS"). Here's where it gets really interesting. This same exact "woman" is also described in Revelation chapter 12 and, more interestingly, this "woman" has "a remnant" which is also described. Yes, we read: Revelation 12:17 "And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Did you catch that? Even though most of those who comprise "the woman" have no "blue" in their "array" or attire in that they don't "keep the commandments of God", "the remnant" of this "woman" or the Jews who will be saved in the last days do have "blue" in their "array" or attire in that they "keep the commandments of God". Again, it is this "keeping of the commandments of God" which distinguishes "the remnant" from "THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS". Furthermore, this "woman" of Revelation chapter 17 is also contrasted with the Old Testament high priest in another manner. Yes, we read: Revelation 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." In stark contrast to what this "woman" has written upon her forehead, the Old Testament high priest bore the following inscription upon his own forehead: Exodus 28:36-38 "And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD. And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be. And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD." Whereas the high priest bore the inscription of "HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD" which was fastened to his mitre by "a blue lace" (another reference to keeping the commandments of God) and worn "always upon his forehead", this "woman" from Revelation chapter 17 bears the following inscription upon her forehead: Revelation 17:5 "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." Anyhow, THIS is what is actually being described here and, once again, it all points back to Jerusalem. There are many more indicators and descriptions throughout the book of Revelation which all point directly to Jerusalem as well, so I've by no means covered all of them. In fact, I've just barely scratched the surface so far. I hope that this helps everyone here in their quests for Biblical truth.

If you listen to Shoebat from the 32:01 point of the video through to the 32:34 point of the video, then you will hear how Shoebat claims that "Mystery, Babylon" of Revelation chapter 17 (and elsewhere) is the same "Babylon" which is "fallen" in Isaiah chapter 21, but this simply is not the case. In fact, if you go to Shoebat's website, then he claims that "Mystery, Babylon" is MECCA, but the Bible teaches something completely different. First, here is a link to Shoebat's website and his claim that "Mystery, Babylon" is MECCA: http://shoebat.com/2013/05/31/mystery-babylon-is-mecca-not-vatican/ In his article, "Mystery Babylon is Mecca, NOT Vatican", Shoebat refutes the belief that "Mystery, Babylon" is the Vatican and insists, instead, that it is Mecca, but, in reality, "Mystery, Babylon" is neither Mecca nor the Vatican. In fact, and it is Biblical fact, there is only one place upon the face of the earth which can possibly be "Mystery, Babylon" and that one place is JERUSALEM. There are multiple ways to prove the same, from scripture, and I will now begin to provide solid Biblical evidence for the same: Revelation 17:6 "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration." If you continue reading on to chapter 18 of the book of Revelation, then this "woman", MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH, and her insatiable taste for blood is a little bit further described. Yes, we read: Revelation 18:24 "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." Whoever this "woman" is, God holds her accountable not only for "the blood of the saints", "the blood of the martyrs of Jesus" and "the blood of prophets", but also for "the blood...of all that were slain upon the earth". If we're to believe scripture and to let the Bible interpret itself, then, again, there is only one city upon the face of the earth who all of this could possibly be referring to and that city is Jerusalem. We read: Luke 13:33 "Nevertheless I must walk to-day and to-morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem." Those are the recorded words of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and He said that "it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem". IT CANNOT BE. Therefore, when we read of how "in her was found the blood of prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" must be Jerusalem. Acts 7:51-52 "Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:" Again, it was the Jews of Jerusalem who not only persecuted the prophets, but who also slew them. As such, when we read of how "in her was found the blood of the prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" can only be referring to Jerusalem. I Thessalonians 2:14-16 "For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews: Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sin always: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost." Same scenario. Yes, once more, it is the Jews of Judaea or those of Jerusalem who have "both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets". Once more, when you read of how "in her was found the blood of the prophets" (Rev. 18:24), this "her" can only be referring to Jerusalem. Remember, now, that whoever this "woman" is, she was also held accountable by God for "the blood...of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24). Wow! I wouldn't want such an accusation leveled against me, would you? Well, again, there's only one city upon the face of the earth who is worthy of this charge and I'll let Jesus Christ tell you exactly which city that is: Matthew 23:34-39 "Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord." Again, those were the words of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, and He said that upon Jerusalem would "come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar". Yes, Jesus Christ cried, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets" and, again, "in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth" (Rev. 18:24) and this "her" or this "woman" is Jerusalem and Jerusalem alone. Well, that's just an introduction. As I said, there are multiple ways to prove that "the woman" or "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" is Jerusalem and this is but one of them.

Okay. I watched the video and, although I agree with Shoebat that there are numerous mentions of coming destruction upon Muslim nations in the Bible, nevertheless, Shoebat has some fatal flaws in his theology. For example, if you start at the 20:20 point in the video and continue through to the 21:01 point of the same, then you will hear Shoebat say the following and I quote: Well, there's a major problem here for, IN FACT, the Bible says no such thing. IN FACT, this is what the Bible actually says (and you can read the same in any translation or version): Revelation 17:10-11 "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition." Whereas Shoebat says that the Bible says that the seventh kingdom "is himself also the eighth", in actuality, the Bible says that the eighth kingdom "is of the seven". IOW, the eighth kingdom seems to have been one of the previous seven which was somehow "revived" or "healed of its deadly wound". Even if Shoebat is correct in his identification of the seven kingdoms or empires that he listed... 1. Egypt 2. Assyria 3. Babylon 4. Medo-Persia 5. Greece 6. Rome 7. Turkey (Ottoman Empire) ...then this still does not mean that the eighth kingdom or empire is the seventh kingdom or the Muslim kingdom or empire. Again, Revelation 17:11 says that the eighth "is of the seven", but it doesn't specify which one of the seven that it actually is...at least not in that particular verse. Shoebat makes another (at least) fatal flaw later on in his video and I'll document that one much more thoroughly as time permits me to. In the meantime, let's take heed to exactly what is being said, lest we be led astray.