donfish06

That is sexist. Women have rights. I am not property except to God. I will not obey a man. Slavery is wrong. I suggest you study these passages1 Cor 6:19-20 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. KJV Gal 5:13 13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. KJV By the letter of law we are not slaves but by The Love of God we are slaves to one another as The Church the Bride and the Husband our Lord! Love, Steven No. i will not be a slave to a man. I spent 13 years as a subservient female slave and I am NOT going back. Women are not property. Being a submissive wife does not mean being subservient. The Bible also tells us men to love our wives and lay our lives down for them as Christ did for us. If a man is dominating then it is not the scripture that is his problem...

Adam DID die. 3 different ways you could look at it: 1)Before the act in the garden, he was going to live forever. Since he took part with Eve, he lost that. He lost "eternal" (lack of more accurate word) life, thus he died. 2)But even if you don't agree with that, the Bible says that a day is like 1000 yrs and 1000 yrs like a day unto the Lord. Adam did not live past 1000 years, so he did die that "day" (1000 years) 3)Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. H3117 יום yôm yome From an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literally (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figuratively (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverbially): - age, + always, + chronicles, continually (-ance), daily, ([birth-], each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever (-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (. . . live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year (-ly), + younger. Day clearly did not have to be a 24 hr span

Where is it taught that it IS eternal? Please don't use scripture using "for ever" because as I have shown a number of times on here that doesn't mean eternal, it means "for ages"

Show this in the Bible. Show me where the scriptures say that eternal life is a "quality" of life. This is your assumption and can not be proven in scripture

Natural death came into the world through Adam

JUDGEMENT is not the punishment, judgement DETERMINES the punishment. The PUNISHMENT is to eventually cease to exist If they were going to live eternally then they would have eternal life. God makes it clear that there is only one way to get that. Hell also cannot be eternal because eternal means no beginning and no end. Hell was CREATED, thus it is NOT eternal.

I have read somewhere at one point that the translators misplaced the comma: Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. They contend that the comma should be: Luk_23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee To day, shalt thou be with me in paradise. If this is the case, he is saying, "I tell you this today, you shall be with me in paradise." It changes it from him saying that he would be with him today, to "today I tell you"

Please read my question closer. I asked for a specific instance when someone spoke in unknown tongues upon receiving the Holy Ghost. I didn't say that the words "unknown tongues" did not appear in the bible. My point was to go on to show that tongues is not the evidence of the Holy Spirit. And I am not saying that unknown tongues is wrong... but like Paul said and like what it sounds like in your case is that it is personal. It's not meant to be in front of everybody all the time because it is not edifying unless someone can interpret. I have never spoke in tongues in prayer but I would love too. But my whole point of the thread wasn't to say that speaking in tongues is wrong, but that it is not the evidence of the Holy Spirit. I have a relative who believes that tongues is the evidence and he has yet to speak in them yet, so he believes that he is not saved. Before he was a Christian he was always getting into bar fights and getting drunk and those things plus much more God has delivered him from and he truly loves the Lord. It hurts me so much to see him searching for tongues, believing that he is not yet saved. That is why I started this thread.

It is not spelled out like that, but is is clear that if he was not deceived into doing it he had to have known what he was doing. He knew if he did it he would lose his everlasting life. He then made the decision to do it. It will make more sense if you really understand the original sin. Look at post #55 and see if it all makes sense. http://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/173702-questions-in-genesis/page-3

Now that's an interesting comparison ! I've always considered Adam an anti-type of Jesus because although they both effected all humans Adam's actions brought death while Jesus actions brought life. Maybe I'm misunderstanding the meaning of type and anti-type. ( Rob I've derailed your comparisons into types ! : D ) If you look into the scriptures, you will see that Adam was not deceived, Eve was. Adam did not sin unknowingly, he did so in order to save Eve, his bride. Just like Jesus willingly laid his life down in order to save us, his bride

Show me where the Bible sets establishes interpretative rules. I am sure that the Pharisees followed the best "rules" ever, and they missed the coming of the Messiah. Your intellect doesn't get you anywhere in Christianity. Its called faith.

It is my favorite Old Testament foreshadowing. It is so great to see how God works. He is truly in control!

I believe at some point they will cease to exist. I believe hell is very real, but it was also created. Nothing created can be eternal, as eternity is outside of time. There is no beginning to anything in eternity, it always was. By that alone hell cannot be eternal. I don't know if people will burn or 100, 1000, or 1000000 years in hell before it is destroyed, but Eze 18:4 and 20 say that a soul that sins shall die. I personally find it ridiculous that everybody tries to make die mean not die. A dead soul cannot be tormented forever. I see a common thing in your questions on my threads is to ask questions that I have already addressed earlier lol. I have a lot more already typed that shows why I think the souls in hell will be destroyed at some point. If you are swayed by Scripture then you surely understand that death as you see cessation of existence is not so as this verse indicates Rev 20:10 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. NKJV Notice the duration of the lake of fire is constant forever! That it is torment specific! Rev 20:13-14 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. NKJV Love, Steven For ever does not mean eternity. I'm not going to go over this any more as I have said it probably 15 times on here. For ever is used throughout scripture referring to a specific period of time. If you want such scriptures, feel free to read the thread.

What you consider sound interpretative principles, you mean.

You seem to infer that I am just making things up as I go

We are created and yet will live in eternity outside of time. The notion that eternity has no beginning or end only applies to God He is the only entity in the universe that has no causality. There was a time when not even the angels existed and they will exist outside of time. Secondly, the new heavens and new earth refer to renovated version of what we have now. The topography of our earth will be completely made over, but the earth itelf and the heavens will continue to exist outside of time in the eternal future. That isn't what we are saying. We are saying that the Bible defines spiritual death as separation from God. Look at Adam. He died the minute he ate the fruit but he continued to live. He was separated from God because of sin. Spiritual death is not presented as a ceasing to exist. You are trying to debate the issue by making your definition of terms the working definitions for the conversation and the problem is that your definitions are not based on scripture but are based on what your view demands certain words mean. Your position can't be defended biblically so you are forced to redefine key biblical terms and that is a very inadequate way to handle the Bible. I bet you would have a real problem with someone who treated your words the way you treat God's words in Scripture. When you tell a lie long enough, people start to believe it. Then when somebody comes with the truth no one will believe it, because they have believed a lie for so long. Do you think that over 2000 years Satan wouldn't do anything to try to get people to believe the wrong things about the scriptures? Show me where the mass majority has had the correct understanding in scripture. I don't think it has ever been so. So why would everybody think that the "common understanding" would be the right one now? Do you believe Satan has just laid down these last 2k yrs? If anything he is fighting HARDER. I have not made "my own" definition I have used numerous scriptures to support my claim

I believe at some point they will cease to exist. I believe hell is very real, but it was also created. Nothing created can be eternal, as eternity is outside of time. There is no beginning to anything in eternity, it always was. By that alone hell cannot be eternal. I don't know if people will burn or 100, 1000, or 1000000 years in hell before it is destroyed, but Eze 18:4 and 20 say that a soul that sins shall die. I personally find it ridiculous that everybody tries to make die mean not die. A dead soul cannot be tormented forever. I see a common thing in your questions on my threads is to ask questions that I have already addressed earlier lol. I have a lot more already typed that shows why I think the souls in hell will be destroyed at some point.

I have showed multiple accounts in the scriptures where "for ever" does not mean eternity. Jonah used it when he referenced his time in the belly of the whale (Jon 2:6) Hannah used it in reference of however long Samuel lives (1 Sam 1:22) "for ever" means for ages. For ever and ever means for ages and ages. Ever: G165 αἰών aiōn ahee-ohn' From the same as G104; properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future): - age, course, eternal, (for) ever (-more), [n-]ever, (beginning of the, while the) world (began, without end). Compare G5550. It is used in reference to everlasting life as well. Everlasting is not eternal, either. Everlasting can be never ending, but it too can be "lasting for an age", while eternal means no beginning and no end. If you have eternal life, then you had to have always had it, because it never begins. You can however gain everlasting life, and never die, but you had to GAIN it. So my point is that the only reason people believe in "eternal hell" is because of the terms "for ever" and "everlasting", which don't mean eternal. Some other scriptures that use "for ever" or "everlasting" as a period of time: Deu 23:3, Ex 21:6, Gen 17:8, Lev 16:34

Right, I agree with that

And Jonah was in the belly of the whale for 3 days, just as Jesus was in the "belly of the earth" for 3 days

Joseph. I actually started a thread on this yesterday 1) Joseph was beloved of his father Jesus was God's "son, in whom He is well pleased" 2) Both Jesus and Joseph prophesied that they would one day rule. 3) Both were accused of being "dreamers" 4) Joseph was sent by Jacob to "seek on he welfare" of his brothers. Jesus was sent to his brethren 5) Joseph was hated of his brothers because he was more spiritual Jesus was hated by his brethren (the Jews) because of his spirituality (among other things) 6) Joseph was rejected by his brothers, and left to die. The Jews rejected Jesus 7) Joseph was left for dead by his brothers, cast into a pit for 3 days, before rising out of the pit Jesus was killed by his brethren, died and was buried before raising again after 3 days 8) Joseph was sold for silver to gentiles Jesus was betrayed by Judas for silver, to the Roman guard, also gentiles 9) Both were stripped of their clothing 10) Joseph became a servant in Potiphar's (sp?) house Jesus humbled himself and became a servant to humanity 11) Every thing Joseph did prospered Jesus never failed and was fruitful in his ministry 12) Joseph was falsely accused Jesus was falsely accused by 2 witnesses 13) Joseph resisted temptation when Potiphar's wife came to him Jesus resisted temptation when Satan tempted him 14) Joseph was cast in to prison, with another prisoner on either side Jesus was put on the cross, with thieves on either side 15) Joseph prophesied one of the 2 would be delivered Jesus told the thief that he would be in paradise 16) Joseph was raised from prison, and placed on the right hand of Pharaoh Jesus was resurrected and took his place on the right hand of the Father 17) All who approached Pharaoh had to come through Joseph We must approach God through Jesus 18) All people were commanded to bow to Joseph "Every knee shall bow, every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord..." 19) Pharaoh gave Joseph a gentile bride God has given Jesus a gentile bride 20) Joseph was behind a veil, hidden from his brothers Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. God has "hidden" Jesus from the Jews 21) Joseph commands his gentile wife to leave, and he reveals himself to his brothers. Jesus will rapture his bride, and then reveal himself to his brethren, the Jews 22) Josephs brothers were scared when they saw who he was, but he told them not to fear, that it was all supposed to happen in order for him to save them. Zec 12:10 ... and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. 23) Joseph let his brothers go through tribulation when they thought that they would lose Benjamin The Jews will go through tribulation 24) Joseph was left for dead in order to be able to save his brothers Jesus died so that all could live in Him

Are you suggesting that God died?

2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Jesus speaking: Joh_14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. The comforter is the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit. They are the same, not different

I had just started a thread speaking about how Josephs life is a perfect parallel of Jesus.