Marilyn C

Hi Spock, Glad to see you & hope you had a good break after school. Now concerning the four beasts, I think when you read what we have been saying you`ll see that I do not say the UN is the fourth beast. It does have an important part to play though & I am preparing notes to explain my thoughts.

Hi OakWood, Do you mean the OIC - Organisation of Islamic Cooperation? And also the Security Council of the UN has still the same Super Powers with power to veto any substantive Security Council resolution. Not sure where you got your info from.

Hi rollinTHUNDER, You asked - UN - PART OF QUARTET OF POWER. I`m glad you highlighted the UN, rT, as it does, I believe have a very important role to play. Now I did mention it briefly at the beginning of the topic, `America & the Other Super Powers.` I said that the world regards them as part of the Big 4 or Quartet of Power. I then explained that the 3 Super Powers (1. UK/USA. 2. Russia. 3. EU.) have control over the UN so it is not in their league. I did not go on to talk about the UN as I was focussed on the 4 beasts of Daniel, relating them as I believe to the Super Powers of today. It is a good time now though to look at the UN & see what part they play in the Global Government that is forming. UN - SMOKE SCREEN. It has taken me awhile to see what role the UN plays. Many people have thought it was going to be the seat of Global Government with its own military, parliament & currency. But this is not its role, although it has the appearance of that. People don`t realise that the 3 Super Powers actually control the UN. They set up this institution & put in place the Security Council which has the final say. So it is really a smoke screen for `We the world are coming together.` UN - CONNECTS TO ALL SOCIETY. There is a lot you can read by visiting the UN`s web site so I will just give a brief outline. The UN`s role is to gather all areas of society together, give them a say, & indoctrinate them with their beliefs. Areas such as - governments, banks, businesses, NGO`s (non governmental organisations - religions) indigenous groups, youth, women, poor,....etc, You name it & there will be a group with meetings, conferences, so we can feel the world is paying attention to us & our cause. Then we go back to our society & start groups & indoctrinate the UN`s beliefs throughout our society. UN - RELIGIOUS SYSTEM. So what are their beliefs & can we see that through the media, business, churches etc. It is `We can transform the world.` In other words, we mankind, if we work together can change our world. Christians are getting deceived by this rhetoric being made to either feel guilty (older ones) for the ills of the world, or proud (youth) that they are the generation that will fix it!!!!!!!! I have more to say on this & how it ties in with the economic system. Plus we can look at what God`s word says. (Always a good thing to do. )

Hi Bethany, So made my day! Thank you.

Hi rollinTHUNDER, You also asked - My Outline of what I believe God`s word says regarding the lead up to the Final Gentile Global Government. Islam. Rising in power. ...........................................................................................A/C emerges.................Final Ruler. UK & US. Mouthpiece of the world system.....................................................................................................Mouth. EU. Economic philosophy of world system.....................................................................................................Body. Russia. Preparing for war........................................................................................WW3...............................Feet. The religious aspect of the world system I will discuss on the `Countdown...` thread.

A bit more rollinTHUNDER, As we can see from God`s word the great Image that King Nebuchadnezzar saw, `stood before,` him. Thus the `feet & toes,` of the great image were standing in Babylon, which is in Iraq. This is part of the old Assyrian Empire. Now people may think that the Assyrians have long gone, but they are a race of people alive today. And do you know who is a famous Assyrian? (or of Assyrian descent/father) It is Andre Agassi, the famous tennis player whom many think is the best player of all time. Very interesting ay. And so we have the region of old Assyria come back into world view. (Iraq, Syria & Jordan) The ISIS, the Islamic State of Iraq & Syria now control much of those country`s people, land, towns, oil wells etc. Their leader is the most wanted man on earth, with a bounty of $10 million. His name is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The `Time,` magazine says of him that `human guile can usually beat a high-tech solution.` So it will be interesting to see this part of world events unfold, especially in light of what I believe God`s word says on the subject.

Hi rollinTHUNDER, Thank you for your interest in my view.- I need to make an important point first. When I was learning to fly small aircraft, I had to do navigational exercises. This involved flying on a set course to other airfields. I was told that you must read the map first & then look at the ground layout. This may seem obvious but it is tempting to look at the ground & see a railway line, for example & then look at the map on you knee & say `yep,` that`s such & such town because it has a railway line going through it. But as we all realise many towns have railway lines going through them. And you could be quite off course & if you read from the ground you can make many towns seem like the one you want. Thus it is in relation to end-time events. We can look at the world situation & say `yep, there are 10 countries in the EU, or the world is divided into 10 sections or there are 10 regions.....` etc. So no end of speculation, & man`s opinions, if you see what I mean. So the point I am trying to make is, - we need to read the map first - we need to read God`s word first. We need to collect all the information that God has given us & then we will know where we are & not what we surmise by looking at the ground, looking at the world & trying to fit it into God`s map, His word. So let`s look at all the info that God has said on this topic - ref: (Dan. 2: 41 - 43. 7: 1 - 8, 18 - 20. 8: 23 - 25. 11: 36 - 45 Isa. 10: 24, 31: 8 14: 14 Micah 5: 5 Rev.13: 1 - 6 17: 9 - 13, 18. 18: 10) The kingdom shall be divided. (partly strong & partly brittle) (two ideologies that do not harmonise. AMP) Symbolised by 10 toes, 10 horns, meaning 10 kings. 3 horns/kings gave their power to one that rose up in their midst. 7 horns/kings eventually give their power to that person for a short time. The feet/toes, 4th beast, was dreadful, terrifying & extremely strong. This kingdom arises after the first three & continues contemporaneously with them. The person who gains power is proud, pompous & boastful. He is from the North (of the broken up Greek empire). This is Assyria. (the region now divided into Iraq, Syria & Jordan.) He is called the Assyrian quite a few times in God`s word. This area is the region now divided into Iraq, Syria & Jordan. He is also named the King of Babylon in Iraq (which will be the centre of the Global Government). He is the 7th King over the Global Government. He is possessed by Satan. He is very clever at deceiving & conquers by `peaceful` policies. Thus we have God`s map/word to refer to. Now who on the ground/in the world does that refer to. Assyria is the northern area of the Middle east & is Islamic. Islam is in constant conflict with its two ideologies - Sunni & Shi-ite. They have shown themselves around the world to be quite terrifying, brutal & very strong. Assyria is divided into 3 areas, Iraq, Syria & Jordan. 2 of these areas have come under a group calling it an Islamic State. They have their eyes on Jordan next. The other part of the Middle East there is divided up into 7 other regions - Saudia Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Oman, Yeman. They are called the Gulf Cooperation Council & are working towards greater Union monetary & military. Thus to me rollin THUNDER, the 10 kings are these 10 Islamic regions that we see in the world today. I was taught this Contemporary view (of Dan. 7) many, many years ago by world recognised teachers in my denomination that I was brought up in. (Apostolic from Wales, England & Scotland.) At that time the Arabs were but sheiks of the desert. But I have watched the rise of this power with great interest, especially now as they have become very prominent in the world`s eyes not only for terrorism but for the great wealth they have. They also own much land, companies etc around the world They even have our Australian great horse race named for them - the Emirates cup, instead of the Melbourne Cup - the race which stops a nation here - great gamblers are Aussies. I am watching (not in great detail though) the Syrian conflict for over the next few years I do believe these 3 regions will become the power base of the Anti-Christ. So we will see. Hope that explains my thinking for you, rT. Blessings & great chatting with you, Marilyn.

Hi Triniton, I can understand what you are saying, however there is a difference - Greece & Rome were the sole World Rulers of their era, while England has only been ruler over a quarter of the earth & the US is only part of other super powers that rule the earth. God tells us who the World Ruler are & who (I believe) are the super powers. There is a big difference. Glad to see you enter the conversation. Marilyn.

Hi other one, It may seem that way, but the Lord is first bringing the Body of Christ to completion before He addresses the other two groups - Israel & the Nations. We are being brought to the unity of Faith (what we believe concerning Christ`s character & His purposes for the 3 groups). (Eph. 4: 13) When this `calling,` is complete it will then be taken to its eternal setting in the 3rd heaven. (Rev. 3: 21) The `beast,` remember is only given authority for 3 & 1/2 years (42 months). (Rev. 13: 5) What we are seeing now is but the lead up to the Global Government. The main players are on stage & it is just time till the main one takes centre stage. This will only happen after there is a major war so powers can shift. And this major war is started by God Himself (Ez. 38: 4 `I will turn you around....`) But first things first & that is the Body of Christ. And this is what we are working through now - `that we should no longer be children tossed to & fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness by which they lie in wait to deceive, BUT SPEAKING THE TRUTH IN LOVE may grow up in all things into Him who is the -HEAD - CHRIST. `(Eph. 4: 14 & 15) So you can see how important it is to speak as we are doing with the right attitude, & to discuss carefully like the Bereans, so that others reading can see us work through & let the Holy Spirit bring out the Truth. Together in Christ, Marilyn.

Hi other one, A lot of truth in what you said. However we know that God is above all these powers & He will `herd the heathen folk` finally into the valley of Josaphat. (Joel 3: 2 Knox) Zechariah gives a good picture of how God is `herding` the people. Four great spirits of heaven are sent to gather the peoples for judgment from the four corners of the earth. (Zech. 6: 1 - 8) `These are the 4 spirits of heaven, who go out from their station before the Lord of all the earth.` (Zech. 6: 5) Also in Acts we see that God is in charge of mankind, & the boundaries of their power blocs. `God...made from one, every nation of mankind .......determined their appointed times, & the boundaries of their habitation.` (Acts 17: 26) How wonderful that we know our precious Lord & Saviour.

Hi other one, Just read the link. Very interesting & continues to show that `those who are great exercise authority over the rulers of the Gentiles,` as Jesus said. Scripture has it all as we know.

Hi Montana Marv, So you say `there are no others according to scripture.` to back up the symbol, that Rome is the `divided kingdom.` God always interprets His symbols otherwise it is any one`s opinion. `And the fourth kingdom shall be as strong as iron........ whereas the feet & toes....the kingdom shall be divided;` (Dan. 2: 2: 40 & 41) Two different kingdoms there described. One strong & one divided. We will all just have to wait & see, ay.

Hi rollinTHUNDER, You are very good to chat with as you work through things also & don`t just give the big `dump` of info. And I just came on here to give my summary & I see you said `I was hoping to hear your thoughts about these things.` We certainly will journey this all together in the next few years. I`m sorry that you think I am ignoring your scriptures, but it`s just as I explained. I believe those scriptures also as they are God`s word but man has put his interpretation upon those symbols & nowhere in scripture does it say that Rome is the last Gentile Ruler. That is what I was asking for, other scriptures to explain about Rome, to back up the historic view of symbols. Now my summary of the Contemporary View. 1. Political - British Com. & USA - mouthpiece of World System. 2. Economic - European Union - Economic philosophy of World System. Russia - preparing for War. (against Israel)....................................................................................WW3 Islam - on the rise...................................................................................................................................................treads down the others. That is just a bare outline but there is much detail within each segment as you would know RT. Blessings, Marilyn.

Hi rollinTHUNDER, I think it is important to write about what the `fruits,` or consequences of believing either the Historic view or the contemporary view. HISTORIC VIEW. I have noted as I read articles of those with the Historic view that there is always speculation & opinions. Will this bring about.....? Is this Psalm ......? Where is America....? Why isn`t this......? etc, etc..... And then there are the flood of books with so much conjecture & so called mysteries & judgments. Because the Historic view does not have any specific details of what is happening today people seem to get obsessed with watching everything that is happening & live either in constant fear or a conspiracy hunt or just block it all out, saying we are not meant to know. CONTEMPORARY VIEW. While I can appreciate people`s frustration, I believe that God does want us to know what is happening today. When I share with others, encourage, mentor, & disciple them, they see that what God has written in His word, aligns with what they see happening in the world today. Then we do not have to follow all the every day events, because we know what God has said, & it quite clearly unfolds before our eyes. Thus we get on with encouraging, & mentoring others & helping them in their daily life to learn to trust God. There is no need to speculate or have our opinions as God has set it out clearly & simply for us. My prayer is that the Holy Spirit will open our eyes to His truth of Christ & His purposes.

Hi Salty, I have read what you wrote & as I work through this topic here & on `America & the other Super Powers,` I will address these points. I find going a step at a time brings out more understanding & details. Blessings, Marilyn.

Hi rollinTHUNDER, Now we are getting to specifics. This is helpful. I have three points to share with you regarding our topic. 1. WORLD RULERS not World History. I hear that because you see the 2 arms you think that is the 2 aspects of the Medes & Persians, & when you see the 2 legs you are reminded of the 2 aspects of Rome when the Empire was split up. However for this explanation to be true it would have to hold for each of the parts of the great Image. Thus the `belly & thighs,` (2 thighs - upper parts of the legs) would have to be 4 thighs, as 4 is what the Greek Empire was divided up into. So this thinking is not consistent & we know that God is. The great Image is a representation of the World Rulers, not their Empires after them. it is an overview as we know of the names of the gentile World Rulers who they were but not the details of the history in between. 2. CONTEMPORARY FACT. We know that for a prophecy to be true it has to come to pass. So what do we see today concerning Europe & Islam? Europe today as we know rollinTHUNDER (& shown in your tapes) has not long before it becomes part of the Islamic Empire. Not by force, or coercion but by the birth rate. Europeans are below the sustainable birth rate for their culture to survive & the Moslems are fast taking over. In fact in just a few short years, well within our lifetime, I think the estimate was 2025 - 10 years. So no Revived Roman Empire. 3.DESCRIPTION OF THE FINAL WORLD RULER. `It shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, break it in pieces & crush it.` (Dan. 7: 7 AMP) When we see what is happening around the world it is horrifying, the torture, mutilations, beheadings, hangings, burnings, chopping to piece of humans, from children, to women & men & old people. And I`m sure you are not blind to all of this. I`ve only seen & read a small amount but the extent is horrifying & continues to get worse. RollinTHUNDER I do not need to ask you who is doing this, for in your heart you know. I believe the difficulty with the Historic View is that it has been spoken about, long enough, loud enough, by as many enough so called experts, that people just believe it even though - - God`s word says different. -Contemporary statistics show different. -& horrifying events clearly show different. I suggest rollingTHUNDER (& others) take a good look for this is what is already upon the earth & it is increasing daily & coming to our countries for they are in our midst. You have a good brain RT, you listen & are aware (you shared your tapes). So take a good long look at what the Historic view is based on & read again the Contemporary view. What is really taking place?????

Hi Salty, I`ve just got on & read your post. And no I didn`t complain as I`ve been asleep. Must have been how you said something. I often have to go back & read my posts as I get a certain emotion after I`ve read something then after awhile when I`ve asked the Lord to settle me then I can say it with the right heart. Hope you can work through this difficulty.

Hi rollinTHUNDER, Thank you for taking the time to set out what you think is the Historic View. Now I also believe every word of scripture that you wrote, because, as we know it is God`s word. However have you ever looked closely at this Historic View. If we did that we would see that it is based solely on man`s interpretation of God`s symbols. And we know that God Himself explains His symbols in His word otherwise it is open season for everyone`s interpretation & opinions. Let`s have a look together - GOD`S SYMBOL - the Head. GOD`S INTERPRETATION - `You, O King,......are this head ....` (Dan. 2: 37 & 38) GOD`S SYMBOL - the chest & arms. GOD`S INTERPRETATION - `and Darius the Mede received the kingdom...` (Dan.5: 31) GOD`S SYMBOL - the belly & thighs. GOD`S INTERPRETATION - `and the male goat is the kingdom of Greece.` (Dan. 8: 21) GOD`S SYMBOL - the legs. GOD`S INTERPRETATION - `& it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus....` (Luke 2: 1) GOD`S SYMBOL - the feet & toes. GOD`S INTERPRETATION - `so the Lord of Hosts will come down to fight for Mount Zion........Then the ASSYRIAN shall fall......` (Isa. 31: 4 - 8) `at the time of the end....the king of the NORTH (ASSYRIA) ...shall plant the tents of his palace between the seas & the glorious holy mountain...` (Dan. 11: 40 - 45) `Thus He shall deliver us from the ASSYRIAN, when he comes into our land... & it shall be in that day.....I will execute vengeance in anger & fury...` (Micah 5: 6 - 15) God specifically interprets His own symbols. There is NOT one reference to the Revived Roman Empire in God`s interpretation. It has always been man putting his thoughts over God`s. We cannot base the teaching in God`s word on our interpretation of His symbols. There needs to be what God says besides the symbol. God uses the symbols to encapsulate what He has written concerning the subject. I hope that is clear. (PS. I did go back & read all that you wrote, but could not see where there was an explanation showing specifically that the Roman Empire would be revived. I only saw symbols interpreted by man. I also realise this historic view has been around for a long time but we really need to examine it with the contemporary view, fairly.)

inchrist, thanks for asking. Paul says to the Thessalonians - `Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, .......that he (referring back to `exalts himself above...)` (2 Thess. 2: 5 & 6) So Paul has been talking to these believers about such things. We can read some of this in his first letter. However some people were getting afraid that the `Day of the Lord, ` the time of God`s wrath was already here. So Paul was reminding them about the `restrainer.` It can`t be the archangel Michael as he is Israel`s angel. (Dan. 12: 1) but it is Christ (by His Holy Spirit) for the Body of Christ. This verse is also helpful - `But the Lord is faithful, who will establish you and GUARD you from the evil one.` (2 Thess. 3: 3) So if the Lord, by His Holy Spirit is guarding the believers then the `evil one,` is restrained from bringing in his evil plans till the time when God will send a strong delusion. (2 Thess. 2:11)

Hi Matt 36 & Enoch2021, The only one who can `restrain,` is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself by His Holy Spirit. And why?- because He is building the Body of Christ. When He has brought that to maturity in Him (Eph 4: 13) then He will deal with Israel & the Nations. This is called the Day of the LORD. It is the time of God`s wrath upon the world administered by Christ, the Judge, as all judgment has been given into the Son`s hands by the Father. This is the Day that is talked about in 2 Thess. The 7 years encompasses the Day of the Lord till finally it culminates in the last day when the Lord Himself comes to have vengeance upon His enemies & deliverance for Israel.

Hi bopeep, Actually the bible does have a lot of detail about the Anti-Christ, not only his character & what he does, but where he comes from, his nationality etc.

Hi Matt 36, Us Aussies really can only tolerate `True Blues,` & `fair dinkums.` A bit of lingo to toss the others.

Good talking with you, Enoch 2021. As regards who was in the 6 day war (Ps. 83) - (Reference Wikipedia) Beligerants Egypt..............................................................ISRAEL Syria Jordan Iraq Supported by - Algeria Kuwait Libya Morocco Pakistan PLO Saudia arabia Sudan Tunisia MODERN NAME..........................................ANCIENT NAME Jordan.........................................................Edom, Moab, Ammon. Egypt...........................................................Hagarenes, Amalek, Philistines. Arabia..........................................................Ishmaelites. Lebanon......................................................Gebal, Tyre. Syria, Iraq...................................................Assyria.

Hi Enoch 2021, However it is the FIRST time they said it together (confederation - you didn`t address that point) to the NATION not scattered people. Names of combatants - obviously we disagree, & perish for ever we know WILL happen. Just a note, maybe you are not to battle `every wind of doctrine,` here for there are many others & in time God reveals to open hearts. It takes time to work through stuff, errors that have been taught for years. But I do feel for you for I also have to becareful not to correct every error I think is there. Thank you for saying I am a gentle soul. (I think on another thread.) I am learning that to `cut & thrust,` which I often did is not Christ like or good for my soul. I think we both desire the truth & with that in mind it is not who is the winner but that truth will out, remembering to `speak the truth in love.` - with the right attitude. And that is where we are being fashioned like Christ because it is always easier to `cut & thrust,` with truth but with out the right attitude. I think you would understand what I am saying.

Enoch 2021, Have a good rest & clear your head.