Trumpet cry

So, Judas didn't persecute Jesus? Two books?? Why does anyone need their name written in a book by God just because they are alive? Is God going to forget this? What purpose does it serve to have your name blotted out when you die? This is a spiritual book. God lives on a spiritual level. God is Spirit. The death is spiritual, and so is the life. True, a believer is not blotted out of the Lambs book of life...only when and IF he becomes an unbeliever. When you are studying scripture it is essential to apply biblical truth and the true nature of God which is explained throughout the entire Bible. Otherwise you will sound totally illogical and could present a very wicked perversion and interpretation of truth.

============================================================================================= Does this look man-made to you.... (1 Thessalonians 4:17) "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1Thessalonians 4:16-17 "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." This scripture speaks of the return of Christ Jesus for Final Judgment, to judge the living and the dead and tells exactly how it will happen. It can be called a rapture if you want, but it is the ONLY rapture to come. Nobody here does. We're concerned with the "Harvest" Specifically Who is "nobody here" ? And Who are "We" ? Surely you do not represent everyone, one only has to read the various posts to see that. Please don't distort my post, I wasn't responding directly to you, I was only responding with my thoughts on the opening poster's link, like he asked; however, you have every right to respond to my post, just don't make it sound like it's "me" against "all of you". I'm sure that you have a valid point with the rest of the scripture that you posted and other comments, but to me, it sounds like random scripture pieced together to prove a point that I disagree with and can't even begin to comprehend how it pertains to a rapture before Christ's return. More importantly, I believe that we are now in great tribulation, from the time of the Cross to the time Christ returns. If one doesn't believe this, they can just read "Voice of the Martyrs" or of the persection that many Christians of today are facing and have faced since the Cross of Jesus Christ. No, I do not believe that there will be a "rapture" (apart from Christ's return and final judgment) that will come and carry us all to safety while others are "left behind" to suffer until they come to terms with God. Thank you for your well meant response, it encourages me to "sharpen my sword", which admittedly I need to do. God Bless

============================================================================================= Who are you referring to? I am referring to the writer in the opening poster's link: kingdomwitness, on 18 Feb 2014 - 2:18 PM, said: Did you read it?

James 4:17 "Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin." 1 John 1: 4-10 "And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." Notice in John's warning to the church, he is talking of those who say that they have fellowship with God, yet walk in darkness (v. 6) , he says in this case we are liars and do not the truth. Then he states the fruit of walking in the light, saying that we have fellowship one with another and Jesus' blood cleanses us from all sin. Then back to the those walking in darkness, if we say that we have not sin (when we do- my input here) we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. Then he follows with the condition for being cleansed, If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Now If when we sinned we say that we have not, instead of confessing, John states that we make God a liar and His word is not in us (at the time that we sin and refuse to repent). This scripture is NOT saying that we are all still expected to sin and walk in it, but that we are to walk in the light so that we may have fellowship with God. This is always the best way, and God gives us the ability to do this. In His mercy, He has given us a way out IF, not when we do fall, and that is confession to Him, repentance and walking away from sin. In Luke 4, we are told of Jesus' temptation of the devil. He tempted Jesus in all the ways that man can be tempted, lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and pride of life. Jesus was victorious over every temptation and so was able to redeem us from our sin. God became man so that He could earn our redemtion. He won the victory over sin for us in the wilderness during those 40 days, also proving that we are able to resist temptation. Of course, His blood had to be shed as the last and final sacrifice on our behalf... He who knew no sin. From this example, I really see no other way to sin, except through temptation. Even if a man eats what he knows God is telling him not to eat, so as to not cause a brother to stumble, then he was tempted to do so. Since Jesus went to the cross and rose from the dead and is seated at the right hand of God the Father, we have access to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, who will teach, guide and lead us into all truth. In that we will know the "good to do". It is not true nor biblical that you can sin by doing something that is not sin. You are only accountable for that which you know to be sin, that which your own heart convicts you of. Of course, it is true, I believe, that something could be sin for you to do (or not do) at the time and not for someone else or not for you at another time. The key is in being lead by His Spirit.

1 Cor. 14: 34-35 - "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted to them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also says the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for a women to speak in the church. 1st Timothy 2:12 - " Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authrity over the man, but to be in silence." First off, God is NOT a respector of persons. Deut. 10:17, 2 Sam.14:14; 2 Chron. 19:7; Job 34:19, Acts 10:34; Rom.2:11; Gal. 2:6; Eph. 6: 9; Col. 3: 25; and 1 Peter 1: 17 God also states that in the mouth of two or three witnesses that all truth is established. Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6 and 19:15; John 8: 17; 2 Cor. 13:1; and Heb 10:28. Therefore, the fact that God is not a respector of persons is a true fact concerning God's character. Once this fact is established, then the remaining logic should become clear. The capstone for God not being a respector of persons is given to us in James 2: 1-4, showing that if we are respectors of persons we are guilty of sin. How much more would God then be guilty who has passed the moral laws of His government to us. Paul confirms this "no respector of persons" fact in Gal. 3:28. If the 1Cor. 14:34-35 and 1Tim. 2:11-12 scriptures are to be read exactly as some on here interpret them, then we can draw the following simple and logical conclusions: a) It would be a sin for a woman to say ANYTHING while in church. She could not speak to her children for correction, nor answer any questions from them or her husband. b) It would be a sin for a woman to testify of God's glory and works, which also contradicts many scriptures. c) It would be a sin for a woman to sing and praise the Lord in church, which also contradicts scripture. d) All movements of a woman could be reduced to walking into the church, sitting down, breathing, standing up and walking out of the church. In Genesis 3:16 we find that the husband will rule over the wife. Rule in this sense means to preside over, to stand before, lead, consider and go before. Rule is also used in a military or governmental way, which would not apply to the husband-wife relationship. Many people run to Eph. 5:22 to get wives to submit to their husbands. It is true that they must submit. Submit means to place oneself under voluntarily. In the family structure, the husband is to be the head or protector of the family. Not as a king or ruler, but as v.25 shows, he must LOVE HIS WIFE AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH AND GAVE HIMSELF FOR IT. When we read "wife submit" along with "husband love as Christ loved", then the sting of the "lowly woman" is removed, and we see an equal responsibility between the husband and wife to love and submit to each other. V. 21 explains that in the body of Christ we are all to submit one to another in the fear of the Lord. If you are using the 1Cor. and 1Tim. scriptures to stop a woman from teaching or holding church office or a position of pastoring yet allowing women to sing, pray, praise, testify, teach children in Sunday school and vote and be involved in church election discussions, then where in the Bible can you support women doing any of these things? If these scriptures are used by one to support an arguement against women ministering or teaching as absolute and final, then it is a clear case of wrestling scripture to suit their own selfishness. In ICor. 12: 8-10, we find nine Supernatural Gifts of the Holy Spirit listed and divided by the Holy Spirit as He wills (v. 11). No place does it say that a woman can not operate these gifts for all to profit (v.7). One of the gifts is prophecy. In 1Cor. 11:5 we find that a woman CAN prophesy. In Acts 21:9, we see that Philip the Evangelist had four daughters that prophesied. 1 Cor. 14:31 tells us that "all may prophesy ". This doesn't differentiate between man or woman. Certainly if these gifts were NOT to be used by women, then the Holy Spirit would have said so and listed the proper punishment for women operating in these gifts.

I totally agree with ARose and Patriot on this one. Although it may be a mute point by now; If not handled yet, I strongly encourage you to feed your friend the scriptures that address the sins in this person's life and like Rose said stay away from the emotional issues. The Word, like a double edged sword will pierce her heart and prick her conscience and hopefully will do the intended purpose. James 5:20 "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." It is always very disturbing to learn that someone we believed to be a true believer that we have put ourselves out on a limb for, has indeed destroyed that trust. We can only imagine from this how God must feel when His children turn their backs on Him after sending His Son to the cross for them and they accept that redemption only to "return to their vomit". Love is not always fluffy and pretty, do what God puts on your heart to do and if nothing, pray for your sister to have strength and wisdom to deal with the situation.

Actually the writer/teacher/whoever it is, makes some very valid, biblically backed points regarding the false manmade doctrine of a rapture or multiple raptures occurring before the second coming of Jesus Christ. What about Matthew 13:24-30 for instance? How do you deny the fact that Jesus taught that the wheat and tares were to "grow together until the harvest"? My problem with believing in the rapture theories is in wrapping my mind around the concept of a God who would give His conditions for eternal life only to change or annul them by giving a knowing, unrepentant sinner a second (or third, or more) chance to accept those conditions once the time allowed has passed. Plus the fact that there is no biblical basis for such belief. The writer brings out other valid, biblical truth, but seems to wander off track in other areas. This, however cannot change what is true from God's Word.