Cross Reference

Sorry I haven't been able to reply lately. I see what you're saying here. Jesus said there is no greater love than for a man to give his life for his friends. And at other point Jesus asked of the Father, if there be any other way let this cup pass over me. God wanted to demostrate His love toward us through Jesus Christ, and even offered him a way out of it. How can love be forced upon someone toward others? Jesus made his choice based on His love for the Father which the Father had already chosen to love us while we were yet sinners. My question to you is, can true Love ever fail? Your perspective has Jesus doing it all primarily for us. Consider it was for His Father __we being the benefactors, however, incidental to that. No, it shows He was from the Father. But that is a no-brainer from any perspective. Question: Why do you suppose God left Him alone for those 40 days?

Sorry I haven't been able to reply lately. I see what you're saying here. Jesus said there is no greater love than for a man to give his life for his friends. And at other point Jesus asked of the Father, if there be any other way let this cup pass over me. God wanted to demostrate His love toward us through Jesus Christ, and even offered him a way out of it. How can love be forced upon someone toward others? Jesus made his choice based on His love for the Father which the Father had already chosen to love us while we were yet sinners. My question to you is, can true Love ever fail? Your perspective has Jesus doing it all primarily for us. Consider it was for His Father __we being the benefactors, however, incidental to that.

There can be not be a discussion with death or about it.

I like that. however, it raises the question of "what is the reality" that it be the standard by which we live? So many religious folk equate 'serving the church' with its 'chicken dinner' social mentality as serving God. Some other few might take it step further to include, 'stuffing envelopes'. But, I do understand and believe you have a grasp on what it is supposed to be in the 'naked sense'. The reality 'IS' that which God Himself keeps forever... The Essence of God is neither of created nor destructive format and cannot be encompassed except by God Himself without end... He 'IS' The Unique and there is no other and He directs my heart to love the things He Loves and to hate the things He hates, I do not do this perfectly but press toward that mark of perfection, so that by His Word I will be kept by Him forever along with the everlasting of Himself by His Love... So when I say Love, Steven it is also with this reality in mind! A little too mystical for me to grasp, I'm afraid. For me, learning to love Him as my Father makes everything, incidental.. Jesus teaches me that.

I like that. however, it raises the question of "what is the reality" that it be the standard by which we live? So many religious folk equate 'serving the church' with its 'chicken dinner' social mentality as serving God. Some other few might take it step further to include, 'stuffing envelopes'. But, I do understand and believe you have a grasp on what it is supposed to be in the 'naked sense'.

I believe I sense that __ !!

Of course,His Will....not ours! With love-inChrist,Kwik How do we find out what it is if we have no "intimacy" with Him?

G'mornin" Kiwk! Yes, it makes sense provided we are able to hear from the Lord that our actions be not from presumption.

You're premise is wrong. Heaven isn't the goal. Glorifying God is the goal. That is why works are necessary. We are saved so that we can live in a way that glorified the Lord. !! You picked up on that pretty fast, Shiloh! It is the Destiny of all Christians, isn't it? Do you believe, having to do with overcoming self, we might equate "picking up our cross daily" with "works", doing the will of God? Do you see overcoming temptations anywhere in that?

WE read in Ephesians 2:8-10 the reason why. People skim over the last sentence. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. God created us for works in Him so others will come to know His salvation and enjoy eternity with Him. I have to wonder where we all would be if others had been "slothful" when it came to us. Would we of come to know Christ? If we love God with all our heart, mind soul and strength, will we not be eager to do His will? Hi OneLight!! Nice reply! Thank you! Since it is, we can't get people saved [Jesus does that], can you "put legs" on what you believe God's will is that we should be performing it that in the end we might have influence?

" The atonement is the foundation of our hope " With love-in Christ ,Kwik But, for the Christian who has been assured and re-assured of his salvation, why are works necessary? What works would they be that God would require them and even judge the quality of them? Why would He call that one who produces none, "slothful"? ___and why would any Christian call it all "works salvation"?

"For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." 1 Corinthians 3:11-15 (KJV)

One can "give up" or reject their Salvation by refusing to walk in His Ways,,,,,,but then the age old question remains,,,,,,"Was that person truly Saved to begin with?" With love -in Christ,Kwik "just being saved" is not what God is after, is it? If so, why the indwelling? Why the Comforter? Why anything except our "lips service"?

Either don't "get it" or you don't won't to "get it". Let me try OMT: Consider when one is born again he/she becomes an individual "Bethlehem" for the very life of God that conceived Jesus. Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't. For that reason alone I don't believe I was ever born again until much later in my life after having "given my heart to the Lord" at 9yrs of age. Ok lets try this..... exactly what do you mean by "given my heart to the Lord" when you were 9? What do you think it means??? Alter call sinners prayer thing, maybe??!! still no answers....... I'm done.... Although you will have to leave your Calvinistic doctrine to understand a more reasonable explanation of the scriptures, in which case, you have more than a sufficient number of them for you to do so. Re-read the posts. There aren't that many. if you think I am a Calvinist, it's not me that's confused within this thread. But I didn't say you were, did I?

Why are we not told plainly? "He charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead." Mark 9:9. Say nothing until the Son of man is risen in you—until the life of the risen Christ so dominates you that you understand what the historic Christ taught. When you get to the right state on the inside, the word which Jesus has spoken is so plain that you are amazed you did not see it before. You could not understand it before, you were not in the place in disposition where it could be borne. Our Lord does not hide these things; they are unbearable until we get into a fit condition of spiritual life. “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.” There must be communion with His risen life before a particular word can be borne by us. Do we know anything about the impartation of the risen life of Jesus? The evidence that we do is that His word is becoming interpretable to us. God cannot reveal anything to us if we have not His Spirit. An obstinate outlook will effectually hinder God from revealing anything to us. If we have made up our minds about a doctrine, the light of God will come no more to us on that line, we cannot get it. This obtuse stage will end immediately His resurrection life has its way with us. “Tell no man …”—so many do tell what they saw on the mount of transfiguration. They have had the vision and they testify to it, but the life does not tally with it, the Son of man is not yet risen in them. I wonder when He is going to be formed in you and in me? Chambers, O. (1986). My utmost for his highest: Selections for the year. Grand Rapids, MI: Oswald Chambers Publications; Marshall Pickering.

If anyone believes that God's grace is all that needs be recognized in joining Him in celebration of His Son's victory, that one is mistaken. He will submit to God's way or he will not be admitted.

I never said that "all are saved",LOL so that should answer the question,yes? With love-in Christ,Kwik The Word of God tells me that the ones that are chosen ARE Saved.....................not all who are called Indeed, all are saved __ and few chosen from those who are. That has been the crux of my OP.

Either don't "get it" or you don't won't to "get it". Let me try OMT: Consider when one is born again he/she becomes an individual "Bethlehem" for the very life of God that conceived Jesus. Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't. For that reason alone I don't believe I was ever born again until much later in my life after having "given my heart to the Lord" at 9yrs of age. Ok lets try this..... exactly what do you mean by "given my heart to the Lord" when you were 9? What do you think it means??? Alter call sinners prayer thing, maybe??!! still no answers....... I'm done.... Although you will have to leave your Calvinistic doctrine to understand a more reasonable explanation of the scriptures, in which case, you have more than a sufficient number of them for you to do so. Re-read the posts. There aren't that many.

Either don't "get it" or you don't won't to "get it". Let me try OMT: Consider when one is born again he/she becomes an individual "Bethlehem" for the very life of God that conceived Jesus. Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't. For that reason alone I don't believe I was ever born again until much later in my life after having "given my heart to the Lord" at 9yrs of age. Ok lets try this..... exactly what do you mean by "given my heart to the Lord" when you were 9? What do you think it means??? Alter call sinners prayer thing, maybe??!!

Many come to the foot of the cross & recite the "sinners prayer" PROCLAIMING Jesus as their Lord & Savior,which as other one has pointed out is what is the requirement for Salvation as we see in Pauls letters to the church at Rome & as he stated above this is only the beginning Today I heard the difference between "proclaiming" & "explaining".....which comes as we are transformed to be disciples ......as we grow we begin to bear the fruit that explains Christs Lordship rather than the initial proclamation "The process of being transformed into a New Creature in Christ Jesus seems to lie upon "willingness" & complete submission to His Lordship....that comittment does not always occur at the moment of Salvation With love-in Christ,Kwik Which also reminds me that many are called but few are chosen.........." Amen!! Why aren't all chosen if all are saved?

Question: Given that temptation cannot be temptation without the possibility of failure, why did God leave both Adam and then later Jesus, alone that gave Satan an "in" to tempt them? Why did not God immediately step back into the situation and come against Satan in their behalf because of who they were and meant to Him; what He purposed for them to become?

Either don't "get it" or you don't won't to "get it". Let me try OMT: Consider when one is born again he/she becomes an individual "Bethlehem" for the very life of God that conceived Jesus. Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't. For that reason alone I don't believe I was ever born again until much later in my life after having "given my heart to the Lord" at 9yrs of age.

Since there theologies over lap we can see how influences intermingled. Until many lost sight of that understanding to embrace grace as the Calvinists. Yes, and was correct. Which was the "objective" thing to do. That is where Calvin went wrong. In doing so he injected his own opinion into the mix and it become another gospel. Well, we can't argue with that. . I believe the conclusions at which he arrived by living his self imposed monastic style brought him to realize the need of intimacy with the Father and it couldn't be achieved by keeping the sacraments or reading the word. That is why he split from the RCC. He knew that it was a heart issue and not a head issue that would keep him. Absolutely!! Try believing that "obedience" to His word is that which brings on His grace __ and more! Are we to believe that obedience to His word is, "works salvation"? Ah yes!, the foreknowledge of God. And for my life, there could have been no other reason that I still draw breath. Everyone from birth man has been given a measure of faith to believe for anything he sets his love upon. The is no question about the reality of God in anyone's life. The person who says there is no God is the fool; one who, for reasons is own, lies to himself. He is god and he will have no other God in his life. Many times with others, faith gets misplaced and he becomes disenchanted with the results and blames God. God has revealed Himself to all mankind that mankind is without excuse for seeking after God. Man who does righteousness is righteous and God is the rewarder of those who (carefully cf 1John3:7; Rom 5:1). Missionary's are sent to explain that and speak of the Rewarder of such righteousness, i.e., just make disciples of them. I do and I thank you for your friendship in Him. Lov'in Jesus, Cross PS. I think this is diverting from the OP and should be moved over to the Doctrinal board.

You can pick. I can take it until you pick without knowledge. If it seems too difficult, try believing your doctrine makes it too easy. Also try shifting gears to make it about the gospel of the Kingdom of God. I am not interested in the gospel of salvation. Understanding salvation iis incidental. I think I may have mentioned that. Review post 25. so are you saying that a saved person can't be part of the Kingdom of God? No. I am not saying he can't be however, in the immediate, I don't see how he could be except in the foreknowledge of God. Consider when one is born again he/she becomes an individual "Bethlehem" for the very life of God that conceived Jesus. Realizing and willing to take responsibility for such a thing is what separates out those who 'become' and those who don't. For that reason alone I don't believe I was ever born again until much later in my life after having "given my heart to the Lord" at 9yrs of age.

You can pick. I can take it until you pick without knowledge. If it seems too difficult, try believing your doctrine makes it too easy. Also try shifting gears to make it about the gospel of the Kingdom of God. I am not interested in the gospel of salvation. Understanding salvation iis incidental. I think I may have mentioned that. Review post 25.