Last Daze

They just might be linked.

We know that the passage concerns the time of Christ's return. There is a very specific thing in the end times that requires endurance and perseverance. It is stated twice: If anyone is destined for captivity, to captivity he goes; if anyone kills with the sword, with the sword he must be killed. Here is the perseverance and the faith of the saints. Revelation 13:10 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.” Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. Revelation 14:11-12 The end time perseverance / endurance has to do with the mark and the image. Its how war is waged against the saints. Something to think about.

And because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will become cold. But the one who endures to the end is the one who will be saved. Matthew 24:12-13 Specifically, endures what? And to what end?

And we know that Satan entered Judas. I'm curious as to what you've come across that would suggest another appearance of Judas, whether he's brought back to life or someone pretending to be him. This is what I've noticed: * Satan entered Judas. The false prophet speaks like a dragon (Satan) indicating possession. Rev 13:11 * Judas went to his own place. Acts 1:25. What place is that? * Jesus calls him a devil. John 6:70. Interesting choice of words. * Deceived people wonder about something they see that harkens back to the first century or before. Rev 17:9. The man of sin convincing people that he is Judas could be used to negate the validity of the entire New Testament to the deceived.

I guess we all look through the same glass dimly and see different things. The demons begged Jesus not to be cast into the abyss. It must have been possible. Also Daniel 7 suggests some abyssal activity. Sometimes you have to read between the lines. Agree, fortunately we've been told ahead of time what to expect. Jesus is God and if you personally didn't see Him return, He didn't, regardless of whatever signs and wonders are used to try and convince you otherwise.

Thanks Marv. Satan is the dragon, not the beast. People wonder at the beast.

Thanks for your thoughts Dennis. I see the above as a reference to the evil angel prince of Rome who caused Rome to exercise dominion, who tried (along with Judas and Satan) to stop the Christ and failed, who was then cast into the abyss while the gospel was preached around the world. He has been released in these last days and leads the spiritual forces of wickedness in setting the stage for the return of Satan possessed Judas. They're picking up where they left off in the first century however, their goal is different this time around as laid out in Rev 12 & 13.

I can agree that things are going to get much more bizarre, even more than the current gaslighting. What I find fascinating about Revelation 17:8-9 is why the people wonder. It's stated that they wonder because "he was, and is not, and will come." There's something that ties him to the first century or before that people will recognize. It is true that the man of sin deceives the world because of the signs it is given him to perform, but this wonderment stems from something different.

One thought that I've had centers around archeology. Whether Judas is raised from the dead for this specific purpose, or someone claims to be Judas is not the point. Getting people to believe that the man of sin is Judas is what matters and that might be accomplished through some archeological revelation. What better way to cast doubt on the entire New Testament than to deceive people into thinking that Jesus failed, and who better than an "immortal" Judas to "set the record straight"?

I'm curious as to what other people think about the following passage, specifically, what do they see that makes them wonder: * The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who live on the earth, whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was, and is not, and will come. Rev 17:8-9 Here's what we know: * The beast comes up out of the abyss, a prison for evil spirit beings. * When Revelation was written, the beast was not active but he previously had been (was, and is not). * The wonder results from deception because unbelievers are the ones who wonder. The believers are not deceived, they don't wonder. * Their wondering has something to do with the beast's prior manifestation. My thoughts are that this beast is the evil angel prince that caused Rome to exercise dominion. He worked in concert with Satan and Judas to kill the Messiah. To my knowledge, Judas was the only person in the Bible who Satan personally entered (Luke 22:3). Judas is called the son of perdition (John 17:12), a title also used for the man of sin. I think there will be a reunion of these three in the not too distant future. The question is, "what do they show people?" It's apparently something recognizable from history attributable to Rome, the beast's previous activity.

Exactly. What we're seeing today is beyond the scope of human ability alone.

I think the most recent bout of medical witchcraft (aka COVID) has given us a glimpse of how draconian corporations can be. They're not interested in the bottom line. They're interested in control. It's no coincidence that Lucifer was called out for his unrighteous trade.

I tend to agree. I think this verse encapsulates what you're saying: * for your merchants were the powerful people of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your witchcraft. Rev 18:23b I think its important to remember that the ten horns are part of the beast when he comes up out of the abyss (Daniel 7:7 & Rev 17:8). They are primarily evil spirit beings. Yes, they have counterparts in the natural realm. It may be manifested in the ten trading zones you mention, but I doubt that they realize they are ultimately being manipulated to support the rise of the man of sin.

I think the MAGA movement is primarily well-meaning patriots who care about this country. However, on a level above them, I see the white hats as an extension of the ten horns. The white hats are using patriotic Americans to help take down the deep state (apostate Israel, the Harlot) in America. They are also using a number of other means including Russia and China. It's a multi-faceted takedown. I agree. It has been many decades. Just not sure if it has been centuries. Maybe so. I think that exhortation is more spiritual in nature.

I agree. I don't see the harlot as Jerusalem or Israel either. If there's any connection between the Harlot in America and the nation of Israel / city of Jerusalem, I have no idea what it might be.

Not when you understand who the Harlot is and where her "base of operations" is. The harlot (apostate Israel) has a long history. She went into Assyria initially, then eastern Europe, then western, and England and set up shop in America decades ago. She isn't exclusively in America, but predominately so. And she's steadily losing the support of the kings of the world who previously committed fornication with her. Yes, this is a bit Americentric because that's where the MAGA movement is. It's a word of caution for those who view the white hats and/or Trump as some sort of national salvation. Once the harlot is destroyed by fire, the world's attention will shift to the Middle East where wars and rumors of wars will lead to a time of great tribulation.

For those who have left behind the folly of legacy media and look for news elsewhere, you're probably familiar with the term "white hats." It's a term often used by alternative media outlets to frame the political struggle in America as being between the white hats (good guys) and the black hats (bad guys). Others characterize this struggle as a fight between the patriots and the deep state with the white hats helping the patriots. Its a view of American politics that's moved beyond the artificial two-party system. What we are witnessing in western culture is the advanced stages of the struggle portrayed in Revelation 17 between the harlot and the beast. The harlot imagery is often used in the Old Testament as a picture of apostate Israel. Such is the case in Revelation 17 as evidenced by her being associated with the blood of prophets. You don't have to look very far or dig very deep to find the evidence of her undue influence in American politics, banking, entertainment, sports, media outlets, and other influential organizations. The beast and his ten horns are evil spirit beings responsible for changing the global political landscape in such a way that will catapult the man of sin to a place of dominion. The tide is turning against the harlot and according to Revelation 17:16, it is the ten horns who will destroy her. Those who think that there is a group of good guys out there called the white hats who are focused on making America great again need to think twice. There may be some well-meaning patriots out there but the MAGA movement is nothing more than a controlled burn. The white hats (10 horns) are using people's sense of patriotism to help in their attack on the deep state (harlot). They don't care about making America great again. Their goal is to set the stage for the rise of the man of sin and the harlot is in their way. Be careful not to huff the hopium of the white hats. Yes, the deep state (harlot) will ultimately be defeated but America will not be great again. She will die on her bed and not without pain. Our hope needs to be in the Lord, not the white hats. Our affections need to be on things above. A time of great tribulation is coming and we need to stay awake and be on the alert as our Lord tells us. Just a word of caution.

It might seem like a technicality but Babylon is not sin; Babylon causes sin. And not all sin is the result of Babylon. Our sinful nature figures in as well. Babylon will be destroyed when Jesus returns to set up His kingdom, however, sin will still exist in the millennial kingdom because of the sin nature. Its just that Babylon won't be there to egg it on. Yes, we see it in Babel. Babel was a literal city that excelled in wickedness. The Babylon moniker is used to describe organized defiance and rebellion against God. The last days manifestation of such is pictured in Rev 17 as the Harlot, apostate Israel. What "the city which reigns over the kings of the earth" is a reference to is yet to be seen.

Yet the name of a literal city was chosen as a moniker. Why?

I don't disagree. But to take it a step further, how did sin enter the world? Wasn't it through the influence of Satan's kingdom on the human race? Specifically, Satan himself? Maybe the city being destroyed in Revelation 17 isn't a conventional city or metropolis as we think of them. Consider the following use of "city": * But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels. Hebrews 12:22 By contrast, the harlot city is comprised of apostates. I haven't gotten away from Babylon being a literal city or cities because at its core, Babylon is the manifestation of Satan's influence on the human race. I am rethinking it a bit though.

I agree. Revelation 17 is very rich in symbolism and the truth it contains. A clue as simple as the one stated in verse 8 where it says that the beast comes up out of the abyss reveals that he's an evil spirit being. Only evil spirit beings are mentioned as going into or coming out of the abyss. The abyss is a prison for evil spirits (Rev 20:3,7). Since that's true, we know that the beast is not a human nor is he a world government as so many believe. He is an evil spirit that manipulates world events to bring about the rise of the man of sin. And there is so much more if we just take the time to think it through. I've come to realize that any time wisdom or understanding is called for, there's a prevailing spiritual truth behind the point being made.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I was using two different passages where the cause and effect examples are found in scripture. The fact that they both (kings of Tyre and Babylon) trace back to the cause (Satan) is the point.

Well said. Just because we're looking for the return of Jesus doesn't mean that it's going to be the next prophetic thing to happen. It's like looking forward to a baby being born. Everyone knows that the birth pangs and travail comes first.

Yes, the spiritual forces of wickedness are lying and deceiving in ways that not too long ago would have been considered unimaginable. Faith is being tested. The harvest is being brought to maturity.

Yes, that's a good one. Sinai is where the trumpet of God first sounded (that we know about).