Serving

Revelation 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

Marcus, the Lazarus story is just a parable it is not an actual event. Want to know how we know this? Easy, HOW can the rich man be in this place when his JUDGEMENT has NOT yet been passed? Because THAT JUDGEMENT does not occur until AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ when ALL the dead are RAISED and JUDGED and THEN given their PUNISHMENT. HOW can he be punished BEFORE his JUDGEMENT is passed? He can NOT, therefore, it is merely a parable which if you read carefully, was actually AIMED at the Pharisees who were mocking His teachings. P.S .. Jesus did NOT go to paradise that same day, HE was in the GRAVE (hell/hades/sheol all mean the GRAVE), and when one dies TIME stands STILL for the deceased, when one is awakened, to THEM, it is the SAME DAY of their death even though thousands of years may have passed, and because time stood STILL on the day of the thief's death, when he gets awoken, to him, it is as though it is that same day that Christ spoke to him on the cross because for him, NO TIME HAS PASSED since Christ uttered those words to him, to him it is as the SAME DAY. That is the answer to what Christ spoke to the thief.

Glad you realised what you were saying before was just plain wrong (not so simple after all huh? Lol), I wondered what you were on about because there are literal waters above the waters as stated in Genesis. 3:1 It came to pass, when Enoch had told his sons, that the angels took him on to their wings and bore him on to the FIRST HEAVEN and placed him on the clouds. And there I looked and again I looked higher, and saw the ether, and they placed me on the first heaven and showed me a very great Sea, greater than the earthly sea (end of chapter) Did you notice that Enoch was taken to TWO positions in that same passage? First he was taken to the clouds, THEN he was taken AGAIN and placed "ON TOP OF" the first heaven to look DOWN at those clouds he was originally taken to (the great sea still ABOVE him). Did you notice the "ether" that Enoch was looking UP at FROM his position ON TOP OF the first heaven? The (a)ether is the old word for what we call space today (there is more to the ether than that but that is what it basically is) .. and the great sea is obviously ABOVE the ether. These ARE physical things Enoch was describing btw, be careful not to spiritualize everything and throw out the literal too hastily .. very dangerous. Blessings.

Sister, what I think I've found .. well .. I think I just might have made the biggest discovery I have ever made or even been taught !!! I think it best to do this privately first without distractions, there's still more doors this thing is going to open, i just know it, but I don't know what yet .. but what I've already learnt from it, well, again .. HUGE implications. I'll PM you.

Okay, Not sure if it's important to explain the order of events first so it makes clearer sense (since I have had time to check it against the relevant scriptures that came to MY mind which might not necessarily be the same ones that come to your mind you see??) or should I just give the key itself and explain it as we go? Because it actually brings into clear view a bunch of prophecies for that period????? You pick for me would you? I can't decide.

Oh, you're on. Lol, just gonna make a coffee and feed some birds and take a 10 minute break, was about to switch off you see .. back soon.

Hi Sister, Funny enough, for the last few weeks I have been re-assessing the abomination of desolation interpretation too, and guess what? I found the key that unlocks the timing of it all for us .. it also shines the light on a bunch of other related prophecies in such a way that they put themselves into stunning order, finally making clear particular scriptures which were once cloudy but cloudy no more. Interested?

Hi Lawlord, Okay, that's good. But let me point out that "demonic creatures" coming upon the earth is not accurate. Why? Because they HAVE been at work on the earth all this time since being kicked out of heaven after crucifixion. Sure some of them are locked up in the pit, and the 4 at Euphrates, but that doesn't mean that the rest of them have been absent, they have been here all along working their rebellion against God amongst mankind walking around with Satan showing themselves as ministers of Light to deceive. It's not that they have been absent, it is just that they have been held back by God from doing anything before their time. God is in control as you know, even the fallen ones can not do anything unless God permits it, and when the time is right for global events to kick in, then God will let them step it up a notch. God bless.

Hi Lawlord, Just a heads up .. If you look at what Sister said, that is what I see also. Just in case I understood you wrong, please note that the bottomless pit event takes place and ends before the 200 mil army .. they are two separate events brother .. the "locusts" are the first woe, and the 200 mil are the "second woe". Also, don't forget this, God is using beast imagery to express the vision of the 200 mil in a way John could record it and name it (understand it). John wouldn't know the words "tanks" and "jeeps" and "APC's" etc nor "artillery" nor "rocket launchers" etc etc, so God expressed His meaning to John in beast imagery instead, which imagery is a generalisation itself for modern military hardware and not "riders on demonic horses" at all brother .. other words, the "horses" stand for all manner of modern weaponry summed up in one easy image that John could grasp and relate to, riders on their "horses" going to war but with a twist WE of the "modern" world can understand, that is, the fire and smoke and brimstone which to us today is easily associated with modern weaponry firing and impacting. God bless.

You do know that by your interpretation, Jerusalem was destroyed 56 years after crucifixion instead of the 37 years which correlates with Luke telling us how old Jesus was when He started His ministry (30 years of age=30ad) and crucified at 33 years of age=33ad !!!! That means, by your reckoning, Jerusalem was NOT destroyed in 70ad but instead was destroyed in 89ad simply because your whole interpretation hangs on the destruction of the temple as the end of the 70 weeks .. but Jerusalem was NOT destroyed in 89ad .. it was destroyed in 70ad .. it doesn't add up Sister, there is a error in the interpretation .. mine however, fits with no contradictions though I'm apparently "using the wisdom of man" .. strange huh .. anyway .. You need to look into that.

Hi Sister, NO, sorry, but your interpretation in this ONE instance is a very clear contradiction. Sister, what does "SHALL" mean ? Doesn't it mean FUTURE .. TO COME ? Isn't that how we use it in EVERY OTHER prophecy? So WHY aren't we being consistent in this ONE instance below, out of ALL the others where we ARE consistent? ESPECIALLY in the way it is used with the word AFTER too ?? Daniel 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. That is clearly saying that AFTER 62 weeks expires, SHALL (future tense) Messiah be cut off. If it is what you are saying, then it should read like this : And after threescore and two weeks Messiah be cut off, See? That word SHALL undoes what you are saying completely. You do NOT use the words AFTER & SHALL together like this : " And after threescore and two weeks shall " if it is saying what you are saying .. no, not at all, not ever. Think about that one point over & over & over and you will see that I am correct beyond doubt. This certainly means what I am saying : And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, And this means what you are saying : And after threescore and two weeks Messiah be cut off, You can not have it both ways unless you break from every other instance where you use SHALL correctly, unlike what you are doing for this ONE instance .. SHALL means FUTURE/TO COME .. you are not applying it consistently here at all Sister .. you are breaking your own METHOD you apply to the word SHALL in this ONE and ONLY instance .. That tells me that there is a error in there .. an assumption that is being forced instead of the true meaning being forced. And I know that YOU, like me, could NEVER stomach a charge like that for an INSTANT .. but I'm telling you Sister .. that is exactly what is going on for this ONE instance where you are ignoring the usual method in the way SHALL is used. I can see your point clearly .. that is WHY I am so against it, because I can see it clearly and it goes against every other example where we interpret the word SHALL .. against every single one of them.

Hi H, I don't prescribe to a future 7 years peace treaty (which is always meant when one says "future 7 years" so correct me if you don't mean that), there is no mention anywhere in the scriptures about it and it is only a presumption that spread like wildfire amongst the mainstream churches and taught as fact .. but it is not factual at all and should be utterly rejected in my opinion or at least made clear that it is only a presumption .. we have to be careful of these doctrines because Christ did say after all that many would come in His Name saying this and that .. and churches most certainly "come (speak) in Christ's Name" .. THAT is where the deception He warned us about is and has been attacking us from .. false church doctrines taught as fact designed to confound us and make the prophecies open to all manner of interpretations (confusions). The only place one can deduce a 7 year period to come has nothing to do about peace treaties at all, what it has got to do about is the false prophets public office .. 3 1/2 years of his rising to power and wonderful speeches where he is promoting this new system to come in sight of the forming beast empire, mainly and subtly directed at believers to get them on his side whilst subtly mocking God etc, and his next 3 1/2 years where he is in power controlling the beast empire and enforcing that system he was initially promoting in it's sight, and now coming after the believers with the full weight of the law and empire behind him. The ones who promoted the future 7 years as this peace treaty have absolutely zero scriptures to back it up and yet it has permeated every mainstream's belief systems as a given, where in actual fact it is nothing more than a house of cards style discernment. As for pre-wrath rapture, I do not prescribe to that either, and certainly do not see it reflected in Daniel 9 myself .. I will point out that you did say to me that you see Daniel 9 as fulfilled .. that being so, the obvious question I'd have for you is this, " how do you see a pre-wrath rapture within something you see as fulfilled in the past" ?? I'm not attacking you either H, just promoting critical thinking on things that have been and are being taught. And as for Matt 24, it is a mixture of past and future, hence the opening question directed to the Lord concerning a statement Christ made : Matthew 24 1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? past and future. Serving.

Precisely, whether the mainstream churches like it or not, the RCC is their "mother" from whom they spawned, and many traditions of thought still linger .. unfortunately.

Excellent .. exactly as I understand it.

It can take a long time sometimes when we get something into our heads and it seems to fit .. it bothered me for a long time too .. always knew it was past, but the details had me stumped coz I couldn't get past 70 ad being part of the 70 weeks before realising it (70ad) was actually the CONSEQUENCES of the FAILURE of them fulfilling the 70 weeks, and THAT bugged me for 7 years, constantly being drawn back to it .. HOW did it take that long ??? .. so I know what you mean.

Yes i'm aware of that verse Sister and have been for a while now .. there's no problem there & it fits nicely .. sooo .. ????? Sister, to finish the transgression has nothing to do with the temple .. the temple can't transgress because it's a temple, the people however, it is the people who are told to stop transgressing .. The sealing up of the vision and the prophecy likewise has no bearing on the temple .. this is one half of what it represents : Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples. The other half is the bad half to those it is sealed (kept) from. Not the whole purpose Sister, God was constantly giving them chances to return to Him hence this : Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Just as Jesus confirmed in His lamentation (and notice WHO would NOT too .. P.S -it wasn't Christ) : Matthew 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Yes, we both know that God had planned His word go out to the Gentiles all along, but that still could have been done even if Israel succeeded, hence God constantly calling them back, but God knew they would not, so to the Gentiles He went .. the whole purpose was for Israel to come back to God, the CONSEQUENCES of their failure however is WHERE the temple comes into it, because without that temple (spiritual now) they have no NATIONAL mediation with God. It is a sum Sister .. hence the s-e-v-e-n-t-y . w-e-e-k-s !!!! Saying otherwise goes against what it really is. What I've put forth is simple too .. it's also staring us right in the face .. "and no one can see it because we are all trying to use our own wisdom too" right? Or does that only work one way? mmmmmmmmmmmm Lol, I'm not adding to scripture at all Sister .. I did point out it took just 7 weeks for the building alone, because the bible stated that clearly .. which 7 weeks are obviously part of the 70 weeks too !!!! So I don't know what you're on about here??? Which BACKS what I was saying ????? TWO events are being described in that verse .. one event takes 7 weeks and the other event takes 62 weeks .. ADD them together and you get 69 weeks .. that is SIMPLE math, no need to try and use my own "wisdom of man" because God already provided the simple solution !!!!! But you seem to be ignoring the 7 weeks and only taking the 62 weeks !!!! THAT is where you are going wrong .. it is 7 weeks (for the building) AND .. AND .. AND 62 weeks for the waiting for Messiah .. THAT means 69 weeks all up !!! HOW is that wrong? It is not wrong. Sister, He said "after 62 weeks .. SHALL be cut off" for a reason ..WHY didn't he just say after 69 weeks??? EASY .. here's WHY : If I say to you, my car will take 7 weeks to fix AND 62 weeks to travel to your place .. how long all up will it take to get to your place? And if i say , after 62 weeks i got to your place, what am I saying? I'm saying the journey took that long, no need to mention the fixing of my car cause I ALREADY TOLD YOU that takes 7 weeks but I wasn't speaking of the fixing when I mentioned the 62 weeks now was I .. I was speaking of the JOURNEY !!! Because you can't have the journey (62 weeks) UNTIL the fixing (7 weeks) is done FIRST .. and you can't TRAVEL in a broken car so you can't say 69 weeks of TRAVELLING if you weren't travelling for that whole time .. and I'd EXPECT you'd be able to work that out for yourself right? So HOW long would I take all up when adding them BOTH together? 69 weeks of course .. and THAT is exactly the same principle going on in Daniel Sister .. and it is dirt simple. NATIONAL Israel can't wait for messiah if they don't have a NATION first right (prophetically speaking because of what is prophetically needed before their waiting period sets in) !!!! And you can't have a nation if the people have no where to stay (because their enemies would just waltz right in) !!!! So like the fixing of that car, Israel needed their NATION first, and like the journey came after the car was fixed, the waiting for Messiah came after the NATION was established .. SAME principle. And just like the car analogy, Israel had TWO stages to complete before Messiah came .. the building of their nation (fixing the car) AND then the waiting (the journey) .. and together THEY took 69 weeks all up .. not 62, but 69 weeks. See? The 49 years fits perfectly into what I was saying ??? Sister, do we now throw away the 1335 days because God is using numbers? The 1260 and the 1290 ?? the 42 months?? They are numbers too !! Is God tripping us up there too?? What, we can't be 100 % sure of them either? This is not doing my head in Sister, I've put a lot of time into it and I'm 100% sure too .. yet somehow I'm wrong because "we all have our own theories", lol, so subtle .. are you saying that because I can see it clearly for myself but it's doing your head in then "nobody can be sure" .. hmmmmmm. Sister, It is so simple it comes down to this : Hey Israel .. you got "70 weeks" to get your act together, if you don't get your act together within the 70 weeks, then when the 70 weeks EXPIRES, you're gonna cop it bad. You DON'T punish til the given time expires, the punishment is NOT part of the "get your act together", it's the RESULT of NOT getting their act together .. Say you give your husband 6 months to get his act together or you'll leave (punish) him, do you leave him DURING those 6 months or AFTER those 6 months? And if you leave him DURING those 6 months .. wouldn't that be breaking your word? Do you really think God operates that way too? Because : Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. There is NO punishment to fulfil within THOSE 70 weeks at all besides the sense of foreboding IF they don't step up BY those 70 weeks .. and not just them (the people) but their CITY too .. IF .. IF .. IF they can't do it by the 70 week deadline .. and the expectation is to step up and to ACCEPT Messiah .. anything else thereafter comes form the FAILURE to do those things BY the EXPIRY of that set time .. and just like my analogy, if they fail, then there's gonna be consequences not only on the people, but on the WHOLE kit and kaboodle (meaning even their city will cop it TOO) .. And THAT is simple .. no need for wisdom of man there either .. just God given common sense. Thanks Sister.

Hi H, No I am saying that the 70 weeks is fulfilled .. done .. past. Israel (nationally speaking) FAILED at all 6 requirements hence the destruction in 70ad, if they had succeeded then there would have been no destruction, but there was so they failed and the prophecy is fulfilled, there is no future left overs of the 70 weeks, God said 70 weeks, not 60 odd weeks plus 2000 years .. THAT doesn't add up at all.

Hi Sister, Lol, No Christ wasn't crucified at week 62, i do know why you think this, but please think on it a little more because i know beyond doubt that it's not correct .. Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. Notice that God gives TWO different time allotments in the above verse .. 7 weeks, and 62 weeks (He did NOT say 62 weeks He said 7 weeks and 62 weeks, meaning 7 + 62) before adding the THIRD allotment here (the 70th week) : 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. 7 weeks and 62 weeks equals 69 weeks .. if it were just 62 weeks, He wouldn't have said and .. because "and" when used with numbers means additional .. ALWAYS HAS meant this, even way back then, even primary school kids are taught this, you would have been taught that too just like I was, remember how they say 1 and 1 =2 .. again, "and" when used with numbers means additional, always has .. therefore 7 weeks and 62 weeks means 7 plus 62, not 62, but 7 and 62 which equals 69. So you see, Christ was not crucified at week 62, that just doesn't add up at all Sister .. He was crucified after 7 and 62 weeks .. meaning .. crucified after the 69th week !! Next, please notice how God allotted the times, which we can call stages, and what they were for : Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. See that??, God described TWO distinct events, TWO stages are within that passage .. one and another. 1 > The 7 weeks stands for the rebuilding of Jerusalem 2 > The 62 weeks stands for the WAITING until Messiah APPEARS. These are TWO clear and distinct actions .. rebuilding and waiting are not the same thing .. So .. 1 > When God DEFINED the 7 weeks, He set the 7 weeks aside for the rebuilding of Jerusalem .. that is specific .. it would take 7 weeks for the rebuilding .. that is stage ONE. Stage ONE dealt with rebuilding. 2 > When God defines the 62 weeks, He need not mention the 7 weeks because He ALREADY DEFINED IT as the rebuilding which has nothing to do with the WAITING which comes after it .. and the WAITING takes 62 weeks once the rebuilding has completed .. these are TWO separate events being DEFINED .. and 62 weeks is stage TWO .. BOTH stages are "stand alone" events .. they are INDEPENDENT of each other but CORRELATE with each other. Block TWO deals with WAITING for Messiah to APPEAR Note : WAITING for Messiah to is NOT the same as rebuilding .. these are clearly TWO distinct and different ACTIONS/EVENTS .. so 7 weeks and 62 weeks equals 69 weeks all up .. so Christ was crucified after week 69 which means He was crucified during week 70. So now that God DEFINED the TWO stages for us, and we know that the 7 weeks came before the 62 weeks and BOTH stages stood for specific actions/events, then we also can understand WHY God can say, "after 62 weeks" and WHAT He means and WHY He described it this way and WHY He need not mention the 7 weeks when saying "after 62 weeks" which He already divided from the 7 weeks and clearly defined for us in TWO stages which first stage is clearly a separate stage from the waiting for Messiah stage .. That is WHY He said "after 62 weeks" instead of just saying 69 weeks (knowing God was making it tricky so the wicked can't plainly understand as Christ alluded to in the gospels), He was describing stage TWO which was a separate action compared to stage ONE .. IF He were describing BOTH stages together (which He wasn't) then He would have said 69 weeks, but He didn't because He wasn't .. He was concentrating on stage TWO when mentioning 62 weeks .. He wasn't dealing with BOTH stages in that description, just stage TWO. 3 > Lastly, the remaining 1 week occurs after the 7 weeks and the 62 weeks concludes .. in the last week which followed those TWO stages Messiah will be cut off .. cut off WITHIN that LAST WEEK which, by necessity, again, must take place AFTER stage TWO, which likewise occurred after stage ONE which BOTH together equalled 69 weeks before the last week kicked in. So that is stage THREE, the 1 week. This is how God defined the 70 weeks for us .. in THREE stages .. hence the THREE given time allotments .. because there are clearly THREE distinct actions at work .. building (7 weeks) .. waiting (62 weeks) .. Messiah (1 week) total = 70 weeks. The last week was to see what Israel would do, (yes God already knew), but He gave them 1 week to make their decision .. you don't PUNISH until AFTER they make that decision .. and the punishments came AFTER the 70 weeks .. you don't punish OR reward UNTIL the deadline expires .. and they were punished, which punishment therefore can only occur AFTER the decision has been finalised . you don't punish or reward UNTIL the allotted time EXPIRES .. and the allotted time was 70 weeks .. WHAT happens AFTER those 70 weeks will clearly tell us WHAT decision was MADE and whether they failed or succeeded .. obviously, they failed to meet the 6 requirements and were punished. Think on it more please Sister, it makes sense and harmonizes perfectly .. THREE stages, THREE time allotments .. 7+62=69+1=70 weeks .. only after the 70 weeks comes either the reward or the punishment .. you don't punish or reward during the given time to accomplish, but you do punish or reward after the time expires. God bless.

Hello Sister, Got something for you to think about .. It only just came to me tonight actually .. I want to make a point by turning the 70 weeks prophecy around in such a way as to show that the 70 weeks actually ended before the destruction of Jerusalem (as you already know I believe and I have stated) .. because if I am wrong, then this "turning the prophecy around" wouldn't work .. but if I am right, it should work perfectly .. And this is it .. Imagine that Israel SUCCEEDED in fulfilling these 6 requirements below : Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to (1) finish the transgression, and to (2) make an end of sins, and to (3) make reconciliation for iniquity, and to (4) bring in everlasting righteousness, and to (5) seal up the vision and prophecy, and to (6) anoint the most Holy. Imagine Israel succeeded in those 6 requirements and the wars DIDN'T happen and Jerusalem was NOT destroyed .. because they SUCCEEDED in fulfilling them .. that being the case, then IF .. IF .. IF the wars were truly WITHIN the 70 weeks themselves and the 70 weeks actually ENDED with the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 ad, like you have said .. THEN it'd make NO difference if Israel succeeded or not because they still would need Jerusalem be destroyed as the signal to the end of the 70 weeks !!! See? Israel STILL would need be PUNISHED even for SUCCEEDING IF .. IF the destruction of Jerusalem truly signified the END of the 70 weeks !!! meaning .. the 70 weeks prophecy would have been an exercise in futility .. a contradiction .. because IF the destruction of Jerusalem signified the end of the 70 weeks, it would have made no difference whether Israel failed or succeeded .. they would have been punished EITHER WAY .. IF .. IF .. IF the wars were part of the 70 weeks that is .. see?? And if Israel actually succeeded in fulfilling those requirements and there was no destruction in 70 ad, then WHAT would signify the end of the 70 weeks in it's place? See? Another problem arises .. a problem which should NOT arise whether "I turned it around" or NOT !!! See? It just doesn't work dear Sister, the wars/destruction are the RESULTS of the failure to fulfil the 70 weeks, not a part of the 70 weeks themselves, but the RESULT/EFFECTS of that FAILURE to accomplish those 6 requirements .. it can be no other way, otherwise it is just a contradiction when looked at in the way I put forth .. and the correct reading shouldn't contradict EITHER way if you really think about it, whether i turned it around or not, there just shouldn't be that contradiction there IF 70 ad were indeed the end of the 70 weeks. Another thing if you don't mind bearing with me .. please notice this which also just occurred to me tonight : 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. There are actually TWO ends in the above passage Sister !!! TWO ends .. Because the war itself didn't end in 70ad in Jerusalem .. it ENDED in MASADA .. it wasn't until MASADA that the Romans ENDED their war against the Jewish revolt !!! NOT Jerusalem, but MASADA was the end of the war against the Jewish revolt .. What that means is this .. the END of JERUSALEM is what will be with a flood .. NOT the end of the 70 weeks, but the end of Jerusalem .. Jerusalem will END as the RESULT of the FAILURE to meet the 70 weeks requirements, and .. UNTO the end of the WAR (itself) .. unto the end of the war (the Jewish revolt against Rome WAS the WAR) desolations are (still) determined !!!! (because the revolt wasn't FULLY crushed yet UNTIL MASADA a few years AFTER 70 ad !!!!!!) .. It wasn't UNTIL Masada that ROME's army put an END to the WAR !!! So you see dear Sister, we missed what was staring us in the face all along .. TWO ends take place in that verse !! Praise the Lord.

Hello Leonardo, Don't forget that these you mention : It is only seen in heaven who has conquered the beast: are those in the FIRST resurrection .. there is still the 2nd judgement to come AFTER the millennium which is WHY none of the 2nd resurrection group were seen in heaven in that vision you quoted above, because their (those of the 2nd resurrection) judgement had not yet come at that point .. hence their absence from that passages narrative. My Point : There is still a final judgement to come AFTER the millennium for all those who ever lived but were not part of the 1st judgement/resurrection .. we can not forget about them and must keep that in mind. We can not be sure of this claim friend .. don't forget that this is speaking about them whilst they are in the flesh .. their bodies WILL be given over to torment and a percentage of them to destruction, but AFTER the wrath of God has run it's course, those who survive and repent can likely be given another chance .. I say this because of this scripture : Zechariah 14:18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. Now that deals with those outsiders who are the survivors that were not gathered by Christ at His coming, meaning, that group must be those who had the mark of the beast and went through the wrath of God and survived up to the 2nd coming and are now there during the millennium being told to come up and pay their respects to Christ in Jerusalem. The point being this : NOTHING unclean may enter into the millennial kingdom, yet those above are ordered to come into the kingdom to keep the feast .. those survivors who obviously had the mark of the beast .. therefore, there must be those amongst them who took the mark who were forgiven and "sprinkled" clean else they could in no wise enter into that kingdom to keep that very feast they are commanded to attend !!!!!! Now please consider and take note : And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive [ his ] mark in his forehead, or in his hand, the same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; The wrath of God is poured out on those in the FLESH who took the mark .. that is, whilst they were ALIVE with the mark of the beast suffering the wrath of God which wrath happens before the 2nd coming .. this is not a sign of eternal soul destruction but torment and punishments in the flesh DURING the 7 trumpet blasts directed against MANKIND .. not against SOULS in judgement but against FLESH on the earth with the mark. and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: Same as this, whilst suffering the wrath of God in their flesh, they suffer in the presence (sight) of the heavenly host from WHERE the wrath of God is being poured out. and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: The SMOKE of their torment .. meaning .. there is NO escaping God's wrath whilst in their flesh IF they have taken that mark of the beast, if they take that mark, then they MUST suffer the consequences of punishments decreed UNTIL the wrath runs it's course. Not at all brother, nothing you have suggested or explained is new to some of us, that we haven't already asked ourselves and struggled with, it's just that it is not so black and white when considering all other scriptures linked to this subject is all. Again, don't forget that WHILST in their FLESH that door of grace was closed and they suffered punishments and a percentage of them suffer death for their actions .. but please temper your over all assertion with this : Matthew 10:15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city. Now UNLESS one gets forgiven, then NOTHING could be tolerable right .. you either get forgiven (tolerable) or not (intolerable) .. so you see brother, there is much to consider .. therefore your examples are dealing with judgements being passed upon the FLESH but not upon their SOULS .. THAT SOUL judgement is reserved for the 2nd judgement mentioned above .. there is a difference. This is correct in that once they have taken the mark of the beast, because the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven is shut until the 7 angels have run their course, then NO MAN can find mercy UNTIL the temple is re-opened which happens as Jesus and His angels descend from heaven to destroy the beast and the false prophet and their armies as per Rev 19. As for the rest of your explanation, all I can say is to keep in mind the judgements being poured out are being poured out on those in their FLESH .. whilst they are still alive .. this does not mean that their souls are condemned for all eternity, for there is still a 2nd judgement of their SOULS .. And in this vein I ask you to contemplate this : 1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. God bless.

Hello Salty, Totally agree with you. Now they seek to divide the literal Day of the Lord into Days of the Lord .. where will it end??????

Hi Sister, Well, I've thought long & hard on this and must say that I can see it too. AND .. you know what comes clearer now with this interpretation? This sequence which bothered me for so long .. now it sits nicely and makes sense : Rev 14 (A) 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. THEN (B) 8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. THEN (C) 9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: See how that sits nicely now? .. perfect match !! So Sister, yes .. i agree with rev 18 interpretation .. it makes total sense. HOWEVER : I don't agree with this thing here : Think about this .. Babylon's system is replaced right .. so everything that was done IN Babylon's system is now gone FROM Babylon's system .. IN her trade is no more simply because she is DISMANTLED, SHE is no more .. but the new system .. the new system is where the trade will take place INSTEAD .. probably in a way that the rich can no longer manipulate and all their previous wealth and ill gotten gains gathered IN the Babylon system no longer of value or note, that is, everybody starts in the new system equally .. Remembering that craft prospers under the false prophet .. and one can not have craft without factories/workers/technology etc .. so trading BY that old system will NOW be done under the new system instead .. that would be WHY nothing gets done in Babylon anymore .. nothing done BY that system nor BY her trade laws anymore .. but will be done BY the new system instead .. it doesn't have to mean that global trade itself ends, just the system it was conducted under. Think on it ..

Hi Daze, Regarding this : Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. What I meant was this .. between the time of Adam - Moses, there was no given law from God, written or spoken, given to men for men to break, meaning for those generations .. none of God's laws were broken because none were ever given to be broken in the first place .. meaning .. those generations can not be charged (imputed) for their sins when no law (from God) existed for those charges to be based on. I won't pretend that I understand how God will judge those generations in the judgement, will it be be a conscience based judgement? Whereby deep down they knew the basics of right and wrong and become a self judging law unto themselves .. so to speak? I don't know .. but going by Romans, it sure doesn't seem that they will be judged by God's laws. Again, I am NOT saying that sin was NOT in the world, i am saying that before the law was given to Moses, those generations were not guilty of breaking that which was never told them not to break .. though we have Sodom etc, there were obviously lines not to be crossed which leads me to suspect a "law of conscience" was the norm .. knowing the basic principles of right and wrong .. perhaps akin to "common law" principles?? And that line of thinking was influencing my statement about "Mother of Harlots", in that where no sin is imputed, there can be no "Mother" of anything because there is no guilt to base any charge on !!! Which I then linked to Israel being the "Mother of harlots" because before the law, sin was not imputed and Israel was the first to break that LAW .. hence she became the "Mother" .. But I realised that I overlooked something important in my haste .. Satan's complicity in enticing Eve to break God's only given law in the garden .. so my thoughts went back to what they were before .. frankly, I jumped the gun and shot myself in the foot !!!! Now regarding this : And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth. its not limited to righteous blood. The only definition of Mystery Babylon that I see that fits is that it is a reference to the domain of darkness' influence on the human race to do evil. I more or less agree with your analysis, like I said above, I went off on a tangent whilst entertaining some other angles, I spoke too soon when I shoulda just kept them to myself till I sorted through them properly .. lesson learned. Thanks Daze.

Hi Sister, Yes I can see what you are saying here, I'm going to think on it a bit .. thanks for taking the time for clearing that up for me btw.

Hi Sister, Okay, I hear you now, sorry bout that .. the take on rev 18 is interesting .. i must ponder on it a bit ..