WilliamL

2 hours ago, farouk said:

Hi @NConly I think that verse is more likely talking about Jews in the Great Tribulation, than about the church. I really don't see the church in the OT.

The passage is talking about Jews both at and then after the Parousia and rapture; the after time being post-trib.

23 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

Is "Lamb" not a metaphor for the One who said, "the Father and I are One?" Or, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father?" 

The Lamb is a metaphor for the human incarnation of God, to be slain for the sins of the world.

He also said, "My Father is greater than I." Was He then saying that He was greater than Himself?? I think not.

18 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Rev. 20 beginning in verse 4 describes the first resurrection. 

The word "first" here is generally misunderstood. In the context of the order of events in the End Times, it means first in preeminence, not order of events. The first resurrection was that of Jesus, who ascended to heaven. Another will be the rapture of the church, and still another will be that of the two witnesses also caught up into heaven. All explained here:

78. The "First" Resurrection of Revelation 20:5-6 https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/2840-the-“first”-resurrection-of-revelation-205-6/

21 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

So do we stop being His Body in order to become His bride? As His Body, we are part of Him; as His bride, we would be reassigned our gender role from the male body of Him and to become the female body that He married.

Eph. 5:30 For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. 31 “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 32 This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

So no, we don't stop being one for the other, we become both, just as male Adam and female Eve became both two sexes but also one body. Although in the case of the Bride, these are spiritual bodies being joined into one.

18 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

The OT prophets speak of the bride. God promised that He would redeem Israel through a "remnant," and return to her as husband.

There is more than one bride/wife mentioned in Scripture, as I show in my current series of blogs. Both Israel and earthly Jerusalem are two of the OT; the Church is another in the NT.

18 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

The ekklesia, often referred to as the Church, is not the bride, but the Body of the Groom. Israel represents New Jerusalem,

Rev. 21:9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God.

On 5/15/2024 at 2:44 AM, Diaste said:

It's a poor definition and representation of the event. 

The actual term:

"726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly)."

There will be no rapture as popularized by books and movies. That's a false hope. 

The only false part of that is that it will be secret. The Parousia of Christ and rapture will be very public.

15 hours ago, OneEyeDreamer said:

What should I do if I see visions and perceive that the enemy is trying to attack me with scary visions?

For starters, just say and call upon the name of Jesus. Over and over, with faith. From which name the evil spirits cannot overcome. 

On 5/13/2024 at 2:55 PM, revvel said:

The Feast of Firstfruits foreshadowed the most pivotal moment in human history, the Resurrection of God’s Son.

Again, the Bible never called this date a feast day. When you claim it to be so, you are adding to the Word.

On 5/13/2024 at 2:55 PM, revvel said:

Why did Jesus say, “Touch me not” to Mary, and what relation does it have with the Feast of Firstfruits?

2.    Where in Scripture did Christ reveal the answer, and what does it reveal us, His Bride about us and our Bridegroom?

3.      Why—after telling Mary not to touch Him—was Jesus able tell Thomas to feel His wounds?

" Although Jesus lived a sinless life, God “made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.” 2 Cor. 5:21; Is. 53:4-6 Therefore, He was unclean upon His Resurrection from the dead, and needed to immediately ascend to the Most Holy Place in heaven to become purified. This is why He said to Mary Magdalene,

" John 20:17 “Touch me not, for I have not yet ascended to my Father…”

" In contrast, the same day in the evening, after His return from “having obtained (for) Himself eternal redemption” (Heb. 9:12, above), he told His disciples, “Handle Me and see…” Luke 24:39 By that time, atonement had been made “for Himself and for His household.” Lev. 16:17, above. "

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1505-the-tabernacle-and-court-part-4-the-most-holy-place/

3 hours ago, Indentured Servant said:

When He returns, it will be to establish His earthly Kingdom. The white horse is a kingly symbol.

Before He establishes His earthly kingdom, he first takes up His bride to His Father's house in heaven.

18 hours ago, Charlie744 said:

1) there is not one who is worthy in God’s eyes, 

Everyone under the blood of Christ is found worthy in God's eyes.

On 5/9/2024 at 5:31 PM, Vine Abider said:

Kathy Holland, a 75-year-old retired retail flooring store owner from Sandown, N.H., voted for Haley in her state’s primary. While she considers Biden ineffective in his first term, she can’t bring herself to back Trump either.

Ineffective? I think he has been quite effective in his globalist agenda.

8 minutes ago, Marathoner said:

Feel free to justify and whitewash history to your heart's content. Men are more than just "flawed," William. Do you accept the testimony of scripture? Scripture is explicitly clear about it. 

Like these scriptures?

Acts 11:24 For he was a good man, full of the Holy Spirit and of faith. And a great many people were added to the Lord.

Matthew 12:35 “A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things.

Proverbs 12:2 A good man obtains favor from the LORD,
But a man of wicked intentions He will condemn.

Psalm 37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD,
And He delights in his way.

Yes, scripture is explicitly clear that there are many good men in God's eyes.

On 5/11/2024 at 12:31 PM, Marathoner said:

Man has been atrocious and terrible all along and contrary to the fantasy you cling to, the U.S. has always been morally bankrupt and reprehensible to the extreme.

A bit extreme here yourself. America has always been divided between God-lovers and God-haters. Sometimes one side more or less prevails, sometimes the other. There have been three great Christian religious awakenings since the 1700s, and two since the establishment of the United States; with many lesser ones.

The Church in America and elsewhere cannot have an "apostasia/falling away" from the faith unless it has had substantial faith to begin with. Which is what Alexis de Tocqueville wrote about: the strength of the American churches of his day.

I would hardly call the founders of this country "morally bankrupt." Flawed, yes, but men such as George Washington and most of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were honorable and moral men. Few such men remain in the political realm today.

1 hour ago, Neighbor said:

Dave Ramsey  brags that his own credit score is zero!

I likewise. Have never in my life bought anything on credit.

Doesn't stop me from getting lots of offers for credit, though.

And Dave Ramsey probably has more money in his petty cash account than I own.

8 hours ago, Diaste said:

I'm sorry, I don't see the term 'rapture' in any of the major proofs of the event, above which are some. Since it doesn't exist in scripture and is ill defined by the many doctrines I don't see any kind of 'rapture' in all scripture. 

Rapture is a term/verb derived from the Latin Bible to translate the Greek verb harpadzo, used in 1 Thes. 4:17 -- "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up [Greek root harpadzo] together with them in clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

We get the word raptor from this Latin verb, referring to birds that "catch/snatch up" their prey.

Since we are to meet the Lord in the clouds, the "clouds of heaven" (Matt. 26:64), that certainly means we shall be "raptured" upward, not sideways.

One of the OT prophecies of this in type is when Moses and Joshua were called up into Mount Sinai, to come into the Presence of the Lord. But the Church will ascend instead "to [heavenly] Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect..." Heb 12:22-23

13 hours ago, Keras said:

You seem to be blinded to Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead do not come back to life until the thousand years is over.

In context, the rest of the dead at the time of this event, which is after Armageddon. Duh. Rev. 20 says nothing about what has already occurred with the Church beforehand. Previous chapters do.

13 hours ago, Keras said:

As I said: its indisputable.  Your idea of a general resurrection when Jesus Returns is wrong and won't happen. 

Indisputable to ones having blinders. Watch and see what happens when Jesus returns -- for "every eye will see Him" -- but it seems likely you won't be one of "those who were ready" when the Bridegroom comes, who go "in with Him to the wedding." Matt. 25:10

13 hours ago, Keras said:

Where does Rev 7 say Gods Throne is in heaven? 

Rev. 4:2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.

Nowhere in Revelation does it say that Throne changes location.

Now you tell us: where in the Book of Revelation does it ever say that God's throne is on earth?

On 5/10/2024 at 2:22 PM, Keras said:

Revelation 20:4-5, is quite clear and indisputably states that the ONLY dead people who Jesus will raise when He Returns, will be those martyrs killed during the 3 1/2 year reign of the 'beast'. 

Rev. 20 refers only to the dead saints killed during the reign of the Beast, and raised up after Armageddon. Which resurrection occurs long after the raising of the elect in the rapture, who are shown to be before God's throne in heaven in 7:9ff.

19 hours ago, RdJ said:

I thought Revelation 20 was a great proof text for the pre trib rapture, because only the ones from the trib get raised then,

Rev. 20 says no such thing.

34 minutes ago, Keras said:

1/ The only dead people raised at the glorious Return, will be the martyrs killed during the 3 1/2 years of 'beast;' rule. Rev 20:4

Daniel 12:2-3, Rev. 7:9-14, and John 5:28-29 show you to be wrong.

34 minutes ago, Keras said:

2/  The elect do not go to heaven.

Jesus will come "in the clouds of heaven." The elect will be caught up into those clouds.

34 minutes ago, Keras said:

3/ The Jews are punished at the Sixth Seal event and only a remnant survive.

Whether and/or how much of a remnant is irrelevant to the testimony of Zech. 12:10ff.

34 minutes ago, Keras said:

4/ Gods wrath is over before Jesus Returns; Rev 15:1

The Parousia of Jesus occurs at the 6th Seal; at which time God's wrath begins: "the great day of His wrath came/is come..." Rev. 6:17

26 minutes ago, NConly said:

I am looking to find this particular part written in the Bible "" the Jews are converted"". I do not seem to be able to find this written in the bible. It seems as you put it together as if it is part of a verse you may help me understand how the conversion is at the same time as the verse. Hope my question makes since.

Sure. When "every eye shall see Him/Jesus, even those who pierced Him" (Rev. 1:7), this is what Zechariah says of that event with respect to many Jewish eyes:

Zech. 12:10 “And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplications, and they will look intently toward [not away from] Me whom they pierced.” … 12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself...”

This prophecy shows the repentance of Jews at the Parousia of Christ. Repentance due to their coming to acknowledge that the One "whom they pierced" was actually their Messiah; which is why they will fast and mourn. Whereas unbelievers will turn away their faces and hide. Rev. 6:16; Is. 2:10, 19

Rev. 7:1-8 immediately follow after the universal vision of Christ at the 6th Seal/Rev. 6:16-17, and tells of the 144,000 Jewish now-believers sealed in their foreheads.

On 5/5/2024 at 5:51 PM, seeking the lost said:

There are only two references that identify the rapture.  Both connect the rapture with the resurrection of the dead in Christ.  The dead in Christ must rise first then those who are alive and remain will be caught up.  There are only two resurrections and only one meets the requirement of a rapture.

So we have different definitions of the term, as I expect others also.

One of the difficulties in discussing such topics: different definitions of terms.

8 hours ago, Dennis1209 said:

October 7, 2023, was the equivalent of our 9-11. Did the world dictate to the U.S. how we should respond, call for ceasefires and restraint?

Many nations did just that after the US bombed the smithereens out of Iraq.

On 5/4/2024 at 5:54 AM, luigi said:

 Micah chapters 2 and 3 describe what is Israel, violently killing people who are averse to war (Micah 2:8). As a result, the Lord is angry with those in power and abandons Israel for their sakes to be plowed under, in order to eliminate the chaff for their their unjust ways (Micah 3:12). ...

Micah 3:12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.

Actually, this prophecy was fulfilled in the 2nd century AD by the Roman Emperor Hadrian, following the Bar Kokhba War (132-35), when "the Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen."

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-bar-kokhba-revolt-132-135-ce

This act is well known. Hadrian erased the remains of Jerusalem so thoroughly that within a hundred years, no one even knew where the Temple had once stood.

On 4/30/2024 at 5:32 PM, Stash said:

April 8 eclipse was just a warning in my opinion

According to Jonah, we are given 40 days

It just so happens that the 40 days falls on Pentecost

Will that be the collapse of the financial system?

Will, that kickoff WW 3

No.

On 5/4/2024 at 1:10 PM, AdHoc said:

Hi guys, there is another thing to consider. Should we be looking at the host of heaven for signs? Should we be looking as ANY sign?

There is the one I always keep repeating, ad nauseam:

Daniel 11:40 “At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. ...

12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.

[etc.]

22 hours ago, seeking the lost said:

Multiple raptures require additions to the scripture. 

I beg to differ. Multiple raptures are required by the scripture. As I pointed out earlier, the rapture of the two witnesses is a rapture all by itself.

Unless you have a different definition of the term rapture. Where does this fit in, in your understanding:

12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.