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WilliamL

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WilliamL last won the day on March 1 2016

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About WilliamL

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  • Birthday 09/01/1950

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  1. From this article: “Ideologically they [Turkey] are absolutely an enemy of the U.S,” Kedar said succinctly. “Erdogan is part of the Muslim Brotherhood and, for him, America is the Big Satan. Practically, they play as if they are friends of the West. Despite being members of NATO, they have never and will never take any role, even indirectly, in any actions against another Muslim nation.” Pardon me? Erdogan has been trying to overthrow Syria's Assad for years, including by supporting ISIS with personnel, money and arms. Of course, Assad is not a Sunni Muslim, rather is of another sect of Islam. On that note, if Erdogan were to be the King of the North of Daniel 11:40, that would mean that he would one day be invading Sunni Egypt and Libya. Not likely.
  2. Just a note about the use of the word apostasia in the Book of 1 Maccabees: there the term unequivocally meant apostasy: Dan. 11:32 Those who [did] wickedly against the covenant [Antiochus] corrupt[ed] with flattery; but the people knowing their God [were] strong, and acted so. 1 Macc. 2:1 In those days Mattathias…a priest of the sons of Joarib… 14 …and his [five] sons rent their clothes, put on sackcloth, and mourned greatly. 15 Then the kingʼs officers who were enforcing the apostasy [Gr. apostasia] came to Modein to make them offer sacrifice. … 19 But Mattathias answered and said in a loud voice… 22 “We will not obey the kingʼs words by turning aside from our religion to the right hand or to the left.
  3. I like the common misunderstanding over the made up understanding. John does not say this is the culmination of the first resurrection. He would have to say that to include the groups that you do. The first resurrection is the first in time that counts as a resurrection in the revelation given to John. There is a danger in adding to the revelation as John warns us not to add to the text. And you choose too ignore the resurrection of Jesus et. al. as being resurrections. If ANY resurrection can be accepted as the first/protos in time/order, it would be the resurrection. It is you that is adding to the revelation of John by stating that -- "The first resurrection is the first in time that counts as a resurrection in the revelation given to John." Nothing in Revelation signifies the exclusivity of the protos resurrection to that book alone.
  4. Those who were "aroused/awakened" (Greek verb egeiro, Matt. 27:52) when Jesus descended to Hades “[came] out of the graves after His resurrection" (Matt. 27:53), thus were resurrected AFTER the resurrection of Jesus. These include the elders/saints before the throne in Rev. 4-5, when Jesus is to appear before the throne the second time, fulfilling the second entrance into the Most Holy Place with His blood, according to the pattern of Leviticus 16 for the Day of Atonement.
  5. You repeat a common misunderstanding about the "protos resurrection" in verse 5. Protos here means first in preeminence, not first in time. Jesus and the saints who came out of the graves in his day were part of this resurrection, as will be the Rev. 7 saints before the throne, the Two Witnesses of Rev. 11, and the 144,000 before the heavenly throne in Rev. 14. These are all part of the protos/first/foremost-in-preeminence resurrection.
  6. Noah was told the year, then later the day, beforehand. Not something most people opining about eschatology care to mention.
  7. SECOND: John 5:28 “Do not marvel at this; for an hour comes in which all the ones in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth: the ones having done good things to a resurrection of life, but the ones having done evil things to a resurrection of condemnation.” At this time, which follows “a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation [that is, the Great Tribulation]” (Dan. 12:1-2; Matt. 24:21), the message heard will be a “keleusmati/shout of command” (1 Thes. 4:16); that is, something all the dead – as well as all the living – will be made to hear, receive, and obey. That order/command will require all, living and newly-resurrected dead, to lift up their faces – for however briefly that may be – toward the universal vision of “Him who sits on the [heavenly] throne [of judgment] and…the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16); the Lamb here being “the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power [the Father], and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matt. 26:64 This will be the second mass resurrection of the dead.
  8. FIRST: John 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour comes, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and the ones hearing shall live.” “Hearing” here is meant according to the Hebrew verb shâmăh, which implies, besides hearing, also receiving and obeying the message heard. That message was the “Gospel [Jesus] preached to those who were dead,” “to the spirits in prison [Hades/Sheol],” when He “descended into the lower parts of the earth.” 1 Pet. 4:6; 3:19; Eph. 4:9; cf. Acts 2:27, 31; Luke 4:18. Those in Hades who heard, received, obeyed and thus lived, “[came] out of the graves after His resurrection…and appeared unto many;” because they, having become members of “[His] church, …the gates of Hades [could] not prevail against [them]” to keep them in that soul-prison. Matt. 27:53; 16:18 This was the first mass resurrection of the dead.
  9. Index and summaries of all articles is here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1403-index-and-summaries-of-articles/ The First Two Mass Resurrections of the Dead FIRST: John 5:25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour comes, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and the ones hearing shall live.” “Hearing” here is meant according to the Hebrew verb shâmăh, which implies, besides hearing, also receiving and obeying the message heard. That message was the “Gospel [Jesus] preached to those who were dead,” “to the spirits in prison [Hades/Sheol],” when He “descended into the lower parts of the earth.” 1 Pet. 4:6; 3:19; Eph. 4:9; cf. Acts 2:27, 31; Luke 4:18. Those in Hades who heard, received, obeyed and thus lived, “[came] out of the graves after His resurrection…and appeared unto many;” because they, having become members of “[His] church, …the gates of Hades [could] not prevail against [them]” to keep them in that soul-prison. Matt. 27:53; 16:18 This was the first mass resurrection of the dead. SECOND: John 5:28 “Do not marvel at this; for an hour comes in which all the ones in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth: the ones having done good things to a resurrection of life, but the ones having done evil things to a resurrection of condemnation.” At this time, which follows “a time of trouble such as never was since there was a nation [that is, the Great Tribulation]” (Dan. 12:1-2; Matt. 24:21), the message heard will be a “keleusmati/shout of command” (1 Thes. 4:16); that is, something all the dead – as well as all the living – will be made to hear, receive, and obey. That order/command will require all, living and newly-resurrected dead, to lift up their faces – for however briefly that may be – toward the universal vision of “Him who sits on the [heavenly] throne [of judgment] and…the Lamb” (Rev. 6:16); the Lamb here being “the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Power [the Father], and coming on the clouds of heaven.” Matt. 26:64 This will be the second mass resurrection of the dead. I give it as my opinion that “all in the graves” must “come forth” in order to empty Hades/Hell, so that the Millennial Age will be able to begin with a clean slate, so to speak. Of course, Hades will not remain empty for long, because it will begin to receive the souls of the non-immortal wicked who die from that time forth, up until the end of the Millennium. Thus necessitating the third and final emptying of Hades (followed by its destruction) described in Revelation 20:11-14. Now, what is to become of the re-embodied souls of the wicked? I believe the answer is found in Matthew 13 and Isaiah 66: Matthew 13:41 “The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Isaiah 66:24 “And [people] shall go forth and look at the carcasses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worms shall not die, and their fire is not quenched; and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”
  10. Sounds complicated. I was once pretrib, prewrath is far simpler, and stops all those upsetting patchworks of pretrib, like "Matthew 24:7 happens before Matthew 24:3". Prewrath every end times discourse is 1-2-3 order... "There are multiple raptures pre-wrath" -- my apologies for screwing up here: this was meant to say, "There are multiples raptures acknowledged in pre-wrath doctrine..." (Please note, I changed this in the original.)
  11. Daniel 7:17 ‘Those great beasts, which are four, are four kings which arise out of the earth. 23 ‘The fourth beast shall be a fourth kingdom on earth... These are spiritual rulers in heavenly places. Only four heads are mentioned, not seven. If you presume each beast had a head, then the third beast in truth had a head, and that head had four more heads, making eight in total. But neither 7 nor 8 is the intent of the passage; just 4. The Greek Beast had four sub-rulers/heads, which were in no ways equivalent to the beasts themselves. The Beast of Rev. 11, 13 and 17 ascends out of the Abyss, and is the origin/father of the seven lesser heads. That is, they derived their spirits from him/it, therefore being lesser in power, but of the same essence.
  12. Wonder why we see the Church in heaven pretrib, before the seals are opened? There are multiples raptures acknowledged in pre-wrath doctrine, beginning with Jesus; also the Rev. 7 saints, then the 144,000 of Rev. 14 after the 1260 days, probably closely preceded by the rapture of the Two Witnesses. Jesus is seen in heaven pre-trib (Rev. 5:6ff.) because he has to bring his blood of expiation a second time (Heb. 9:28; Lev. 16:15) into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly sanctuary. The first time, for Himself and His priesthood family (Heb. 9:12; Lev. 16:11), took place immediately after His resurrection. Heb. 9:28 To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. Explained more fully here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1505-the-tabernacle-and-court-part-4-the-most-holy-place/
  13. I'm a mere 69. Began ministry in 1975.
  14. Zech 14:16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.... 20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the LORD’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 ... In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts. This is clearly Millennial.
  15. So much claimed knowledge, backed by not a single Scirpture. I have backed what I say using boatloads of Scripture and history. Read it in my blog; especially the seven part series of articles on Daniel 9. The 70th week of Daniel has nothing to do with the End Times; it has to do with the now long-fulfilled end of the Jewish Age. The series start here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1568-daniel-924-27-examined-part-1-verse-24/ and concludes here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1611-daniel-924-27-examined-part-7-were-verses-26b-27-fulfilled-historically/
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