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WilliamL last won the day on March 1 2016

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About WilliamL

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  • Birthday 09/01/1950

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    Sangre de Cristo Mts. CO
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  1. I have two main blog articles that address this topic. The first is here -- https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1297-the-levels-and-origins-of-loves-and-their-ultimate-fulfillment/ -- from which this is a quote in part: " The Levels and Origins of Loves, and Their Ultimate Fulfillment Each of the four worlds – the three heavens and the one earth – has both a corresponding element and a corresponding love. The Greek language has a specific word for each of these four loves: Eros: sexual love, the ultimate love of the flesh. Eros is earthly/physical in nature. Storgē: familial love: the affection for one’s closest blood-relatives, and also for one’s clans, tribe, and race. Storgē is soulish/psuchikos in nature. Philia: the love of friends that transcends soul-ties: trans-familial “brotherly love.” Philia is spiritual/pneumatikos in nature. Agapē: all-encompassing love, Divine love, including for one’s enemies. Matt. 5:45 Agapē originates in the Holy Breath-Light of God, and is rebreathed through His children. The elements corresponding to these four loves are earth, water, wind/air, and fire/light. ..." The second article is here -- https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1027-the-three-heavens/ -- from which this is a quote in part: "The three heavens in order consist of: 3rd (lowest): Soul (Heb. nephesh/Gr. psuche). “The soul of the flesh is in the blood." Gen. 9:4; Lev. 17:11 Soul/nephesh is the level of developmental consciousness of the seed of Israel, and corresponds to the laver section of the Temple: the water of the washing of repentance. The lowest heaven pertains to all those who keep YHWH’s Covenant of 10 Commandments, given to Israel at Mount Sinai – with plenty of grace applied, of course. This heaven is called the Garden, also Paradise. 2nd (middle): Spirit (ruach/pneuma.) The Church is a spiritual/pneumatikos body. This corresponds to the Holy Place of the Temple, the place of the 7 Spirits (the 7 Lights of the Menorah), and the Word of Truth (the Table of Showbread). This level pertains to those who have true faith in Jesus, and are led by the Holy Spirit – again, with grace applied. This is the place of the Court, wherein the angelic Powers have convened in the past (e.g. Job 1:6); and are soon to convene again for the Judgment of God, in the company of the elect of the human race. Dan. 7:9-10ff.; Rev. 4-5; 7:9ff. ..." For a deeper look about the four levels of consciousness and how they will play out in the End Times, go to this blog article and the one following it: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/995-every-eye-will-see-him-part-3/
  2. Acts 2:3 Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them. That was the baptism of fire. Has nothing to do with the wrath of God. The fire descends from the highest heaven, and is the highest emanation from God that man can comprehend and receive. The Holy Spirit is the second-level. The angels of the highest level are seraphim, those of the level cherubim. running out of time gotta go.
  3. Yes, we would. The west had faith, the faith produced prosperity, and the prosperity led to self-indulgence, self-justification, and laziness in body and spirit. Why else would so many Americans be overweight and obese? Many people in Africa and other impoverished nations, on the other hand, like the poor among the Jews during Christ's earthly ministry, have 'heard the Gospel gladly.'
  4. WilliamL

    who is he

    Israel did not give birth to Jesus. A single woman did. When you make the woman a metaphor for a nation, but make her child a single man, you make a joke of the Scriptures. Anything can mean anything. Either the woman is a collective spirit (for example, Israel), giving birth to another collective spirit (for example, the Church, or part of it) -- or else the woman is a single person, and her child is a single person. Make up your mind; you can't have it both ways.
  5. It's really very simple: the whole Church is seen in the persons of John and the 12 elders of Rev. 4. Thirteen people. The Great Multitude which no one (not no man, but no one, including angels) can number are all the ones converted after the Rapture. And since there is mentioned the number of 200 million later in Revelation, it has to be a whole lot more than that. Despite the fact that there is not a peep about their being converted. And I have a bridge I can make you a great deal on... The FACT is, the only ones the Bible mentions being converted at the coming of Christ are the Jews, in Zech. 12:10 : “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn." The Lord comes in clouds, every eye sees him, the dead are raised, the elect ascend, the Jews are converted, the heathen wail, the Wrath begins ...at the 6th Seal.
  6. You nailed the essence of the matter in your post above. There is yet to be another prophet coming in the spirit of Elijah. What most people don't understand is that there are collective spirits, such as the spirit that was upon Moses that was divided 70 ways among the elders, and the spirit of Legion that Jesus cast out of the demonic. The spirit of Elijah is a celestial spirit that is called to witness to Israel multiple times, in times of their greatest crises. The ancient Hebrews believed that he was to return right before the final battle of the age against Israel, the invasion by Gog and Magog. I believe that is what the prophecy of Malachi 4 is prophesying: "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD..." By the way, welcome aboard the Worthy board.
  7. WilliamL

    who is he

    Answered here: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1053-revelation-12/ " ... Jesus told John, Rev. 1:19 Write the things which you have seen [past], and the things which are [present], and the things which will take place after these [future]. “The things seen” (by John up to that point) are told in Rev. 1:9-20. “The things which are” – that is, that were taking place at the time of John’s visions – are told in Rev. 2-3, when Jesus tells each of the 7 churches, “I know your works.” Then, beginning in Rev. 4:1, we find: Rev. 4:1 After this I looked and beheld a door standing open in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, saying, Come up here, and I will show thee things which must take place after these [things]. Everything John was shown from Rev. 4:1 onward is future from – “after” – his day. This includes everything in chapter 12. The birth and ascent of the Manchild that John saw in Rev. 12:5 are future; although the birth and ascent of Jesus was of the same pattern and type. Jesus himself tells us who the Manchild shall be: Rev. 2:26-27 The one overcoming, and the one keeping my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: and he shall shepherd/pastor them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to pieces: as I also have received from my Father. Rev. 12:5 She bore a Manchild, who is about to shepherd/pastor all nations with a rod of iron. Rev. 12:7-11 then reveals that this Manchild, a collective body, the elect-of-the-elect overcomers, will participate in the casting down of Satan and his angels out of heaven: Rev. 12:7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the Dragon [Satan]… 11 And they overcame him [Satan] by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their souls unto death. The “they” of verse 11 cannot refer to any non-human angels, only to men, that is, to those ascended overcomers of the Manchild(ren) cleansed and empowered by the blood of Jesus. These events take place “at the time of the end” (Dan. 11:40), the “time Michael shall stand up” (Dan. 12:1; Rev. 12:7), just prior to and during “a time of trouble such as never was” (Dan. 12:1; Matt. 24:21), that is, the Great Tribulation. ..."
  8. I did not say he had an immortal body. But it is a good assumption. Or do you think Elijah and Enoch are still mortals, even after having been taken up into heaven? (And their bodies with them. Elisha looked for the body and didn't find it.) The Greek term ἄγγελος simply means messenger. Whether a celestial messenger or a human one is decided by context. The context here indicates a human one
  9. Then Moses and Elijah didn't really show up on the Mount of transfiguration with Jesus? Immortality does not necessarily imply that one has a physical body. However, the sense of 1 Tim. 6:15 seems to be that Jesus alone holds/possesses [Gr. echo: to have, own, possess] immortality; that is, has the keys to immortality. Another passaage to consider is in Rev. 22: 22:8 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, “See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God.” This was a human being, in heaven, in John's time.
  10. Yes, but there are a whole lot of passages in the Gospels that so-called scholars say were add-ins, including all kinds of statements they claim Jesus never said. The whole conspiracy theory of the Bible thing. But it is impossible for such conspirators to have forged all the manuscripts, and citations of the Church Fathers who quoted them. The textual evidence of the New Testament is solid, with only a few very minor exceptions.
  11. Mark wrote from Peter's perspective. Matthew followed the order of Mark, with additions to it. But Luke only generally followed that order, and in many places varied from it. Luke's Gospel was more of a collection of remembrances of many different people, not a sequential narrative. So it should be of no surprise that this story of Lazarus might not have been heard by Peter. He was not with Jesus every moment; no one was. As far as John goes, this type of story was not something he deals with; his list of topics is very limited, and mostly concerns sayings and events that the other Gospels left out. So there is no good reason to disbelieve that Jesus told this story, any more than there is reason to disbelieve Luke's stories about the nativity of Jesus which only Luke reported.
  12. It places them in Hades, the biblical Sheol, which was the abode of ALL the souls of the dead. However, Hades was divided into sections (still is), depending upon the types of souls that cleaved to one another in spirit. Because, in the spiritual worlds, distance is not determined by space, which does not exist in heaven or hell, but by the similarity and oppositeness of one's spiritual nature to the natures of other spirits. All the dead were cut off since the Fall from the Presence of God. Christ's sacrifice redeemed men from the Fall, allowing them to enter back into the Presence. At that point, Abraham's bosom shifted from being in Hades to being in heaven, and only the souls of the damned remained in Hades. As to the nature of Luke's gospel, it was rather unique because he was the only one of the four not writing from a personal perspective, but rather from a collective perspective of "those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses." Lk. 2:2 Luke was a true writer, who researched his book by interviewing many of the eyewitnesses, and compiling a report based upon his research. (This is why his narrative has quite a bit of problem establishing the sequence of events.)
  13. Only a proof according to your understanding. Another understanding, which I hold, is that these saints are the "remnant of Jacob" left on earth after the Rapture, which Rapture takes place after the 6th Seal is opened. Those who ascend are the "great multitude" of Rev. 7. But many of those who remain, having not been ready when the Lord came, will also become saints, being converted when they see the Lord's coming, and Zech. 12:10 ...look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. These are the saints that go through the 1260 days of "the time of Jacob's trouble," being the same 1260 days foretold in Dan. 7 and 12, and Rev. 11-12-13, to test the earthly believers, "the ones keeping the commandments of God, and having the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev. 12:17
  14. So much speculation, so little evidence.
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