WilliamL
-
Posts
5,135 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
4
Posts posted by WilliamL
-
-
On 5/4/2024 at 5:54 AM, luigi said:
Micah chapters 2 and 3 describe what is Israel, violently killing people who are averse to war (Micah 2:8). As a result, the Lord is angry with those in power and abandons Israel for their sakes to be plowed under, in order to eliminate the chaff for their their unjust ways (Micah 3:12). ...
Micah 3:12 Therefore shall Zion for your sake be plowed as a field, and Jerusalem shall become heaps, and the mountain of the house as the high places of the forest.
Actually, this prophecy was fulfilled in the 2nd century AD by the Roman Emperor Hadrian, following the Bar Kokhba War (132-35), when "the Romans plowed Jerusalem with a yoke of oxen."
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/the-bar-kokhba-revolt-132-135-ce
This act is well known. Hadrian erased the remains of Jerusalem so thoroughly that within a hundred years, no one even knew where the Temple had once stood.
-
On 4/30/2024 at 5:32 PM, Stash said:
April 8 eclipse was just a warning in my opinion
According to Jonah, we are given 40 days
It just so happens that the 40 days falls on Pentecost
Will that be the collapse of the financial system?
Will, that kickoff WW 3
No.
On 5/4/2024 at 1:10 PM, AdHoc said:Hi guys, there is another thing to consider. Should we be looking at the host of heaven for signs? Should we be looking as ANY sign?
There is the one I always keep repeating, ad nauseam:
Daniel 11:40 “At the time of the end the king of the South shall attack him; and the king of the North shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter the countries, overwhelm them, and pass through. ...
12:1 “At that time Michael shall stand up,
The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people;
And there shall be a time of trouble,
Such as never was since there was a nation,
Even to that time.
And at that time your people shall be delivered,
Every one who is found written in the book.[etc.]
-
22 hours ago, seeking the lost said:
Multiple raptures require additions to the scripture.
I beg to differ. Multiple raptures are required by the scripture. As I pointed out earlier, the rapture of the two witnesses is a rapture all by itself.
Unless you have a different definition of the term rapture. Where does this fit in, in your understanding:
12:5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne.
-
1
-
-
3 hours ago, Dave Watchman said:On 5/3/2024 at 9:39 PM, Charlie744 said:
Regarding the 30 minutes in Daniel- I can’t seem to find a time element that speaks to this…
It must / will be found in a OT book but I have not yet found it. But I decided to first look at the Sanctuary and the actions within it to see if there is / was a purposeful silent period within the atonement ritual.
Well if it was there, I bet you would have found it. I was being a smart alec when I said find it in Daniel. I don't think it's that easy because the NT is based on a different language.
This "about half an hour" verse (Rev. 8:1) is found in type during the Exodus era:
7th Seal, Exodus: In Mosesʼ day, a lull in priestly services ensued after the Glory of God filled the Tabernacle: the priests “were not able to enter” it. Ex. 40:35 End Times: There followed a “silence in heaven for about half an hour.” Rev. 8:1
-- https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/1992-the-end-times-and-the-exodus-part-2/
-
2
-
-
1 hour ago, revvel said:
The Feast of First Fruits
But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep. (1 Cor. 15:20–23)
Jesus was resurrected on the Feast of Firstfruits. This feast always fell on the first day of the week (Sunday) during the 7-day Feast of Unleavened Bread. Thus, this feast foreshadowed the Resurrection—on a Sunday.
This "firstfruits" ceremony was not one of the seven sacred feast days. It was a wave offering of the first green ears of the barley harvest. Lev. 23:10-14 But it was not a "a holy convocation."
-
On 5/2/2024 at 7:40 PM, JoeCanada said:
If you don't want to believe that it's the second coming, well, that's ok. The Greek term is "Parousia" which is a coming or presence, but I don't really need to tell you this. Whether its actually a "second" coming (presence) or a third, forth or whatever, it will be His established presence..... forever.
Agreed.
On 5/2/2024 at 7:40 PM, JoeCanada said:So, yes, I believe that Scripture teaches that the "parousia" is equated with the resurrection and then the rapture
Fine, so do I. But others teach that "the second coming" is not the same as the rapture, because Jesus only comes in the clouds/air at that time. Whereas, to them, the second coming only refers to when he sets his feet on earth/the Mount of Olives. So that is why I say that this non-biblical term can cause confusion, and should be avoided unless specifically clarified.
-
On 5/1/2024 at 1:53 PM, choir loft said:
BY WAY OF REMINDER, the thread is a defense of the false doctrine of the Rapture.
Again, what George established this thread to be:
On 4/30/2024 at 2:12 PM, WilliamL said:"If you are a post-tribulation / pre-wrath advocate, [then] use this thread..."
You are acting in defiance of this condition for "use" of this thread. Defiance, and the pride that it derives from, is of the devil.
You have every right to start your own string with your argument, but not to hijack this one.
-
1
-
-
On 5/1/2024 at 11:20 AM, JoeCanada said:
I don't believe I used any scripture that says "second coming"
There are numerous places in scripture that say that Jesus is coming again..... or do you not believe that?
Acts 1:11...... "Men of Galillee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven"
"Will come"..... Jesus came once and was crucified.... so He will come again...... or second coming.
1 Thes 3:13...... " so that He may establish your hearts without blame in holiness before our God and Father at the coming of our Lord Jesus with all His saints"
"at the coming"..... second coming obviously
Obvious to you, maybe. But the actual second coming of Jesus to earth took place the evening of the day He first ascended to heaven.
The problem with using this phrase is that it means different things to difference people, so causes confusion, the devil's playground. For example, some people say that the second coming is different than the rapture, while others say they are the same thing. So for starters, how do you define it?
-
On 4/29/2024 at 11:51 AM, JoeCanada said:
Jesus coming on a white horse in Revelation 19 is not the second coming.
As I have pointed out before, their is no scripture that uses the words "the second coming." This is a doctrine of men.
-
On 4/29/2024 at 2:00 PM, choir loft said:
EVERY SINGLE approximation of the future rests upon the rapture and its relationship to the Tribulation.
Some argue one way and others argue another way. Nobody seems to be convinced of anything - except a few people, including me. Those 'few people' are Jews.
The Tribulation has already happened.
Consider the prophecy of Jeremiah 30:7 who called a terrible future period "a time of Jacob's distress." Other translations use the words 'trouble' or 'tribulation'. The reference to Jacob is to future Jews.
The prophet Daniel refers to a 'week of years' that's almost universally interpreted to mean seven years in length.
Jesus is quoted in Mark 13:19 as saying, "...those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now—and never to be equaled again" Key words of understanding here are intended to predict the seven year period of Tribulation for the Jews would only happen ONCE.
From 1938 to 1945, a period of 7 YEARS, the Holocaust destroyed the lives of most of the European Jews at that time. The population of Jews in Europe has never recovered to its pre-WW II levels.
Most protestants view eschatology in the same way as the old fable "The Emperor's New Cloths". In the fable, the Emperor didn't wear any clothing at all, but had been persuaded that his nakedness was covered by invisible robes. The moral of the story is obvious, but applicable to many who appreciate Biblical authority, but who do NOT study the Bible nor history. They stand before the world naked as the day they were born when they pronounce their false interpretation of the Tribulation. Everybody knows how stupid their story is except the ones who preach it.
The final nail in the coffin of rapture story tellers is the idea that the rapture comes before, during or after the tribulation - nobody seems able to make up their addled mind about the timing. In his book, FUTURE GLORY, Ed Hindson goes out on a very thin limb and declares that the Tribulation will happen after the rapture. That's not possible because the Tribulation has already happened. Everybody is still eating dinner at home these days. Nobody is enjoying an honors banquet in heaven - yet.
Mr. Hindson also falsely claims the rapture will usher in the end of the church age. Unfortunately for Mr. Hindson's theory the church age HAS ALREADY ENDED too.
The church age ended on June 6, 1967 when the IDF liberated the entire city of Jerusalem and the Temple Mount. Luke 21:24 quotes Jesus' prophecy of future events when Christ says, "Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled."
Jerusalem was liberated by the IDF on June 6, 1967. On that day the times of the gentiles were fulfilled. What does that, as well as the timing of the Tribulation, mean in terms of human history and its future? Obviously a lot of people, including Mr. Hindson are really wrong about a great many things.
What we see in action these days is a preponderance of antisemitic church dogma that supporters refuse to let go of. Like the Emperor's new cloths they'd rather live naked lives of fantasy than to study the Bible and watch the signs of the times (as Jesus recommended).
What's next for mankind? We will have to watch and see. Certainly the myths concocted by numerous church con artists will not teach us anything.
Watch the sky. Jesus will appear soon. Of that I am certain. Exactly when remains to be seen....but fools will continue to insist upon their mistaken predictions - as the pharisees also did before Jesus' first advent.
Some things never change.
that's me, hollering from the choir loft... (Isaiah 6:9-10)
Even though you copied George's post, you apparently either did not read it, or choose to ignore what it said:
"If you are a post-tribulation / pre-wrath advocate, use this thread to defend your position."
Since you are not such an advocate, this is not the place for you to post your opinion about the timing of the rapture.
-
17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:
4. Israel is clearly from scripture the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.
Speaking to a Gentile Church, Paul wrote:
2 Cor. 11:2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ.
17 hours ago, Marilyn C said:2. There are no marriages in heaven.
Matthew 22:30 “For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.”
This verse is commonly misunderstood, because people project into it more than it actually says. First, what it does NOT say:
– That marriage in heaven will not exist. (Heaven itself IS a state of marriage; that is, a state of union.)
– That people in heaven will be sexless.
– That angels in heaven are sexless, or are only males, having no feminine traits at all.
Now, what the passage DOES say:
– That personal volition regarding 1) the choosing to marry, 2) the choosing of whom to marry, and 3) the choosing to give one’s daughter in marriage,
which currently are all earthly choices of our wills – such solely personal choices will not take place in heaven.
excerpted from: https://www.worthychristianforums.com/blogs/entry/3152-marital-union-in-heaven-and-in-creation-part-1/
Marilyn, you've built your whole view of marriage in heaven on one verse, into which you project much that is neither stated nor implied.
For those who might be interested, I just posted the 3rd in a seven part blog series called Marital Union in Heaven, and in Creation.
-
On 4/26/2024 at 7:38 PM, Vine Abider said:
Thanks - your thoughts are noted. So you don't believe the man of sin will arise and do a treaty?
Not the covenant of Dan. 9:27, which is history. The man of sin will be the king of the north of Dan. 11:40-45, and no covenant is mentioned or implied in that period.
-
On 4/26/2024 at 4:58 PM, AdHoc said:
I think your argument fails with the word "WHOLE" or "ALL" (the earth). There is no place to sit it out.
Really?
Isaiah 33:16 He will dwell on high;
His place of defense will be the fortress of rocks;
Bread will be given him,
His water will be sure.
-- kind of like Elijah sitting out the 3-1/2 drought and being fed by ravens.
-
17 minutes ago, RdJ said:
Revelation 3 It's said to the faithful church. This is not said to everyone in Laodicea.
10 Because you have kept [c]My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
Answered in my post above.
Regarding the 10 virgins prophecy, I'll admit that this could be a partial rapture verse, so thanks for bringing it up.
20 minutes ago, RdJ said:And Matthew 24
But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming ["Parousia"] of the Son of Man be. 38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
This can't be about when He comes back, because this is Laodicea and that church who lets Jezebel be before the trib. During the trib you can't even buy food without the mark of the beast, so then they can't be self absorbed marrying and eating and not noticing anything.
This is about the Lord's Parousia, right there in verse 37; the same Parousia mentioned in 24:3, 27, and 1 Thes. 4:15, all referring to the time of the rapture. Well before the Beast ever arrives on the scene.
24 minutes ago, RdJ said:And you can just count the days until Jesus comes back from the point of the peace treaty or when the ac sits in the temple...
You, like many, have been woefully misled about the meaning of Daniel 9:27, which has nothing to do with the End Times.
-
9 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:
Interesting, and thanks for directly addressing this! So I believe I have scriptures for each of these things (a condensed, simpler version of events quoted from an earlier post): "Give a little background on Israel becoming a nation again, and that things there will reach a potentially very catastrophic level, but a charismatic leader will arise to make a 7 year treaty. And even though peace and good times appear to rule the day after the treaty, the lid will seriously come off in 3.5 years, and then before too long, the Lord will return to subdue the dire situation and set up His kingdom --> therefore sinner, turn to Him and be saved!"
Sorry, but I believe that everything above, after the words "things there will reach a potentially very catastrophic level," is pure spec that will never come to pass. So I repeat what I said in my previous post: avoid such speculative interpretations of the prophecies.
-
8 minutes ago, Vine Abider said:
So what about the promise to the church in Philly, where the Lord tells them "if" (a conditional standard being placed), then He will keep them from the hour of trial (tribulation) - is that not a possible partial? (Of course, one may not think the vehicle for keeping this promise is a rapture . . .)
Rev. 3:10 “Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth."
This verse is too vague to pin a partial rapture on. As you call it; I would call it one of multiple raptures, if that is what it is referring to.
However, itt may simply mean these people will be taken, or led, to a safe place to sit out the trib. Because they have been more faithful than more lukewarm believers won't be so protected.
-
1
-
-
On 4/23/2024 at 11:59 AM, Vine Abider said:
Below is something I've been playing with (and mentioned it in another thread). I see an opportunity to share with unsaved about things occurring toward the end of this age, so that there might be an opening for the Good News. For believers, the end of the age is about His Kingdom being manifested, but to unsaved, this is "the end of the world." To us the apocalypse means the wonderful, full unveiling of Christ and the sons of God; but to unbelievers it is something full of dreadful fear. The Lord can use that fear for the entrance of His Word!
So the 10 steps below are a very basic conveying of my thoughts on what is, and will soon occur, concerning Jerusalem and the middle east. It is, of course, according to my own theology and my understanding of prophesy. For nonbelievers I would want to keep it real simple, and might just share points #1 and #2, and perhaps #4, 6-7. For instance, I probably wouldn't get much into matters concerning the raptures (I believe in multiple, partial raptures).
And I know that believers might have varying views and opinions about some of these events (especially the raptures & manchild), but my purpose in conveying these is in hope that we may see a clear way to present simple, end of the age prophesies to the unsaved, as a means for the gospel.
My basic Understanding of Prophetic Last Week (7 years) of this Age as an Abbreviated Outline:
1. The background - Israel returned in 1948 to become a nation again, after 2,000 years of dispersal throughout the world. This is unprecedented in history.
2. Soon, serious conflict in the middle east/Israel will have the whole world greatly disturbed. A charismatic leader arises to power who makes a grand 7 year treaty with Israel and her enemies – great peace and prosperity takes place in the world (but also many disturbing/destructive natural calamities occur). This is the beginning of the final 7 years.
3. First-fruits (early rapture) are taken directly to God’s throne somewhere in first 3.5 years of the treaty.
Next items happen in rapid succession mid-way through the final week (3.5 years from treaty enactment):
4. Charismatic leader dealt death blow
5. Manchild taken to heaven - Satan is cast down to earth
6. Dead leader comes back to life supernaturally
7. Leader breaks treaty 3.5 years after signing it & desecrates the Jerusalem temple, setting himself up as God there
8. Final 3.5 years start – supernatural calamities upon the whole earth - two witnesses appear
Toward the end of last 3.5 years (end of 7 year week):
9. Large armies gather to middle east – battle of Armageddon
10. Christ returns to defeat armies and antichrist, and to set up His kingdom on the earth
The problem I see with this list is that is mostly a personal interpretation of Bible prophecy, not Biblical prophecy itself. And when events take a different course, and they will, then any potential converts will likely be turned away from the faith.
Best to stick with the literal prophecies themselves, what they actually say, not what you think they mean. There are plenty of quite specific ones that need no elaboration or explanation, my favorite being Daniel 11:40 - 12:3, which covers most of the essentials of "the time of the end."
-
2 hours ago, RdJ said:
I can see why they say mid trib when I read revelation, so it wouldn't surprise me if it's pretrib and midtrib. At least there are 2 raptures, because the 2 witnesses get raptured as a seperate event.
There is a big difference between a partial rapture and multiple raptures.
A partial rapture means some Christians -- or should I clarify and say some professing Christians -- will not be found worthy to be raptured along with the "worthy" ones; e.g.
Luke 21:36 “Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
-- although that passage may simply mean 'worthy to stay alive through the trib.'
Other than this passage, I don't know of any that even hints at a partial rapture.
However, there is another passage that hints that some people may be raptured, and then kicked out:
Matthew 22:2 “The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, ... 11 “But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment. 12 “So he said to him, ‘Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?’ And he was speechless. 13 “Then the king said to the servants, ‘Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’
This garment, according to Revelation 19, represents one's good works:
Rev. 19:7 “Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.” 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
Regarding multiple raptures in the End Times, that is undeniable, because the Two Witnesses have one rapture all by themselves.
-
1
-
-
On 4/24/2024 at 6:49 PM, Jayne said:
Biden is losing voters by the scores. Black people, Latino people, and women.
But he will be gaining millions of votes from registered-to-vote unlawful immigrants...
On 4/23/2024 at 12:27 PM, TrueFollowerOfChrist said:If the true followers of Jesus vote however, Trump will win by a landslide. At least in my very very humble ( LOL ) opinion.
...not to mention millions more votes from fake ballots. (Deja vu all over again.)
-
" (April 15) The FBI announced it is conducting an investigation of the Francis Scott Key Bridge collapse in Baltimore, and that it had boarded the cargo ship Dali: “The FBI is present aboard the cargo ship Dali conducting court authorized law enforcement activity.”
https://thenewamerican.com/news/fbi-announces-criminal-investigation-of-baltimore-bridge-collapse/
So nearly three full weeks after "the accident," the FBI finally is getting around to discover if it really was an accident. (Or so they say.) Might have something to do with the fact that before this newfound FBI interest, "Baltimore Mayor Brandon Scott said the city of Baltimore was pursuing legal action, and that it would 'hold responsible all entities accountable for the Key Bridge tragedy, including the owner, charterer, manager/operator, and the manufacturer of the M/V Dali, as well as any other potentially liable third parties.'" Ibid.
The FBI investigation quite likely will impede the city's legal action. The delay of the FBI to act immediately after the incident also means that any coverup of the facts would have had plenty of time to take place.
The whole thing smells really bad. In other words, situation normal with the Biden administration.
-
On 4/15/2024 at 7:01 PM, BlindSeeker said:
I don't believe there will be a USA when the 2 witnesses are killed, that is why the other nations are emboldened.
Not a world-functional USA, certainly, because the land will be in too much chaos to be a player in international affairs. But the nation will come through its 3rd and worst crisis:
Three great perils will come upon the Republic. The most fearful is the third, but in this greatest conflict the whole world united shall not prevail against her. ... Then once more, I beheld the villages, towns, and cities springing up where I'd seen them before, while the bright angel, planting the azure standard he had brought in the midst of them, cried with a loud voice: While the stars remain, and the heavens send down dew upon the earth, so long shall the Union last. -- George Washington's Valley Forge vision
-
36 minutes ago, BlindSeeker said:
Simple, what is your scriptural support for the SEVEN YEARS of tribulation?
None, because there isn't any.
But that doesn't stop people from inserting the idea into various scriptures.
-
On 4/20/2024 at 12:37 AM, dad2 said:
The first time was the captivity in Babylon. This seems to make it clear that any other gatherings are not of God. For example they are gathered there today.
Isa 11:11 The verse tells of a second time God will gather Jewish people.
Ezekiel 20:33 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you: 34And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out. 35And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face. 36Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD. 37And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant: 38And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
39As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord GOD; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but pollute ye my holy name no more with your gifts, and with your idols. 40For in mine holy mountain, in the mountain of the height of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, there shall all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, serve me: there will I accept them, and there will I require your offerings, and the firstfruits of your oblations, with all your holy things. 41I will accept you with your sweet savour, when I bring you out from the people, and gather you out of the countries wherein ye have been scattered; and I will be sanctified in you before the heathen. 42And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I shall bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for the which I lifted up mine hand to give it to your fathers. 43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled; and ye shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed. 44And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
-
On 4/15/2024 at 2:03 PM, Figure of eighty said:
My brain is broken and I feel like a failure as a mom and in general.
My very last hope is medication. If this doesn't work then I'm truly a lost cause.
From what you wrote in your first two posts, you have the classic symptoms of bipolar disorder. (Common these days.) Right now you are in the depressive phase, the other phase being the manic, where one feels like they can do everything.
The primary medication for this is lithium carbonate, an inorganic compound; common dose around 50 milligrams, by prescription. But one can purchase lithium orotate online without a prescription in much smaller doses, 5 - 10 mg., and it is an organic substance, and cheap. Some research says it promotes brain health in general. A web search will bring up many articles about it. It can be purchased on ebay and other such sites.
Hope this helps. Pray about it, of course.
Israel & Palestinian Situation - Significantly Driven by Extremists
in General Discussion
Posted
Many nations did just that after the US bombed the smithereens out of Iraq.