Joe@actsii

Hey T&O, long time no see... well is this considered seeing ... well I think you know what I mean . I know I don't post here as much as I would like to, but I do read alot. For those who don't know, I am a "Oneness" Pentecostal. I do not believe in the Trinity. Does that mean I am not saved? Does that mean that I am not a christian? Does that mean my relationship with Jesus Christ, my Lord, is not a real relationship? What about a Trinitarian Pentecostal, are they saved just because they believe in the Trinity? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Brother...If you are saved...you will come to confess the Triune God. God does not lie to believers about Who He is. I am not saying you aren't saved...perhaps you are misled or something...but if you are truly born again...the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. You must have the right God, the right Jesus, to be saved. And this, I am sure you agree with. God bless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "If you are saved...you will come to confess the Triune God." Which book of the Bible is this in? You do not have to understand the Godhead to be saved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would guide us into all truth. The Triune God is Truth. If you willfully and knowingly deny and reject the Trinity/Godhead...you are not saved. The Holy Spirit doesn't lead into all lies. And the "meat" comment was to all who are newly saved and journeying to know more of the fulness of Christ...which, of course, includes, among other doctrines, the Godhead. God bless you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well if this is what determines if you are saved, by your definition I am not saved. By the way, the same thing could be said about you from my prospective. In fact I hear this from "some" Oneness people about Trinitarians. I do not agree with them. Also I do not believe "The Triune God is Truth". I don't want to get into the whole Oneness/Trinity thing. I serve and worship the God of the Bible. My God and my saviour is Jesus Christ.

I am not sure if this was meant towards me? If so, I am not a new christian, and as someone else has touched on, being a christian is a process (hopefully with growth). I have to say that I have grown a lot over the years. I am not where I want to be, or where God wants to lead me, but I am light years away from where I was (Thank God). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I disagree that being a Christian is "a process." You're either a saint, or you ain't. It's that simple. However, there is a process that is called sanctification. That is where God is molding us more and more into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe I can say it better this way. Being a christian is like being born, it does not end there, if it does there is something wrong. Like a physical baby, we need to grow and develop in of spiritual life.

I am not sure if this was meant towards me? If so, I am not a new christian, and as someone else has touched on, being a christian is a process (hopefully with growth). I have to say that I have grown a lot over the years. I am not where I want to be, or where God wants to lead me, but I am light years away from where I was (Thank God).

Hey T&O, long time no see... well is this considered seeing ... well I think you know what I mean . I know I don't post here as much as I would like to, but I do read alot. For those who don't know, I am a "Oneness" Pentecostal. I do not believe in the Trinity. Does that mean I am not saved? Does that mean that I am not a christian? Does that mean my relationship with Jesus Christ, my Lord, is not a real relationship? What about a Trinitarian Pentecostal, are they saved just because they believe in the Trinity? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Brother...If you are saved...you will come to confess the Triune God. God does not lie to believers about Who He is. I am not saying you aren't saved...perhaps you are misled or something...but if you are truly born again...the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth. You must have the right God, the right Jesus, to be saved. And this, I am sure you agree with. God bless. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "If you are saved...you will come to confess the Triune God." Which book of the Bible is this in? You do not have to understand the Godhead to be saved.

I would also like to say that for the most part, people here have been very kind and polite to me, even though I believe things differently then some. I would just like to say thank you.

Hey T&O, long time no see... well is this considered seeing ... well I think you know what I mean . I know I don't post here as much as I would like to, but I do read alot. For those who don't know, I am a "Oneness" Pentecostal. I do not believe in the Trinity. Does that mean I am not saved? Does that mean that I am not a christian? Does that mean my relationship with Jesus Christ, my Lord, is not a real relationship? What about a Trinitarian Pentecostal, are they saved just because they believe in the Trinity?

Not by any chance! Why do you ask ? More than just the Catholics believe in the Trinity my friend! Be blessed, Tim <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I asked because your previous response made just about the same argument that the Catholic Church did in their council decrees of Nicea and Constantimople. That argument being basically, "If anyone confesses anything other than what this council has decreed (or dogmatically defined), let him be anathema (or cursed to hell, basically)." BTW: Maybe I should point out here that the term essential means something that it integral to the functioning of something. So when someone asks, "Is X essential," he or she is asking if it's an absolute requirement. For example, your heart is an essential part of your body. Without it you would die. I have not yet found a single verse or verses which explicitly state or imply that unless one believes in "the Trinity" that he will not be saved. Nor have I found anywhere that states or implies that a confession of "the Trinity" is a confession unto salvation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I really must get going...but quickly...you must believe in the "Trinity" to be saved...because the Bible says that God is a "Trinity". You must believe in God. If God is a Trinity, He is a Trinity. He can't and won't stop that. It's a fact. The tread doesn't say...DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY...which is a whole other topic. The question is...IS BELIEVE IN THE TRINITY ESSENTIAL TO SALVATION??? Obviously...if God IS IN FACT Triune...one would have to believe that for salvation. If God is not Triune...one would not have to believe that...make sense? Would you not agree that IF God is Triune...you would have to believe that for salvation. If not...falling short of this would be falling short of having the correct God for salvation. Anyway...God bless you all and talk to you later on tonight, Lord willing. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are many verses in the Bible that talk about salvation, baptism, the new birth, being born again, etc..., but I don't remember reading one that says you have to believe in and or understand God and/or the Godhead to be saved? I could be wrong, but I don't think that I am?

No.

Samson was under a Nazarite vow. He was under different circumstances. My wife has not cut her hair in about 23 years (she cut a little in the front when she was 4 years old). If I remember correctly, the part about a woman not speaking in church is because back in the NT times, when the Jews had "church", the men in the group would speak up and ask questions out load. The women where to be silent and ask there husbands at home. If I got that wrong in any way I am sorry, I am going from memory and don't remember where I learned that.

I found another site for you. http://www.reasons.org/

I don't think that is what happened, but in theory it could happen. I mean lets think about Adam. A week after he was created, he was a week old right? But how old did he look? I guessing in his twenties or thirties? I don't know what he looked like, but I know it was not a one week old baby.

Try this site also. http://www.creationseminar.net/ We had this gentleman come to our church for a seminar. It was great. He taught over 10 hours of info. I was only able to make it a couple of nights, but they where very informitive. Any one who is interested should have your pastor contact him to do a seminar. His testamony is interesting also. The things that evolutionist have done to him and his family just because he speaks the truth and shows you the rest of the story behind the evolutionary lies.

Jesus-lives, nice to meet you. My name is Joe. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I am learning a little at a time. I have listened to a lot of material from both sides on the subject. I don't recall all of the information that I have heard, but I know that there are a lot of holes in the Evolution theory. I am going to post some links and maybe some articles? I know that some people here don't like the whole cut and paste thing but why should I try to say something that has been said already. And said better to boot. http://www.coralridge.org/BroadcastArchives.asp Just type in "evolution" and you will find many free streaming audio files from there radio broadcasts to keep you busy for a while. http://www.str.org/free/commentaries/evolution/index.htm This site has great articles and you can also download there radio shows for free in mp3 format. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home.aspx I really haven't look at this site to much, but it comes highly recomended by friends on mine.

Well I was close. I don't think I could spell to save my life? I cut and pasted the corrected verse. Matt 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:" KJV

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance; but he that cometh after me is mighter then I; whoes shoes I am not worthy to bare; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. Matthew 3:11 I think I got it right?

Try going to www.str.org This is an organization called Stand To Reason. I think you will find it very helpful. Let me know what you think. Good luck and God bless.

Sounds like lying to me. If I say you are the best, and I don't know if you are, then I would be lying.

I did listen to 2 Peter today, thanks for the tip.

Thank you all very much for your input and advice. I am taking it all in. T & O thank you for the article, it is very helpful. I am doing ok so far. My approach so far is I have listened to it in the KJV dozens of times. I have read it over in the KJV a few times. I did this to let it sink in and become more familiar with it. I have a good feel for the basic flow of the book now. My next step is to start focusing in on the verses and braking it down into sections. I am also starting to read it in the following translations, King James, New King James, New American Standard, Amplified, Contemporary English, New International, New Living Translation and the Message. I think this will give me a good perspective on what the book is saying. I have a few commentaries that I want to look at, but I want to do some more studying on my own before I look into the commentaries to much. Again thank you all so much for your input. God Bless.

It is defiantly a blessing to see people hiding God's Word in there heart.

Hey everyone do you mind if I pick your minds a little? I am studying the book of Jude. It is actually an assignment from my pastor. I will be teaching a class on it with three other men in our churches leadership team. I have been listening to it on audio format (KJV) for a few months now. It is starting to sink in. I also have access to PC Study Bible to help me. I have a few questions if any one cares to answer. 1) Do you know of any sites where I can listen to the book in a different translation? 2) When you start studying a book like Jude, how do you do it? I mean beyond just reading it over multiple times. I am still kind of new at doing deep studies of the Word of God, and I am open to any words of wisdom. 3) I am thinking about doing the class in a power point presentation. Does anyone know of any good sites for pictures or animations to use? 4) My pastor told me he wants me to teach on the book and not to preach on it, if that helps to let you know where I am coming from. Thank you all in advance for any help.

The following is the article that you gave me as a link. CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY www.carm.org HOME PAGE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oneness and the word "person" Oneness theology denies the Trinity doctrine and claims that there is one person in the Godhead who has manifested himself in three different forms: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These "forms" are not three separate persons, but one person who occupied consecutive modes. The Trinity, on the other hand, is the teaching that there is one God who exists in three separate, simultaneous, persons. Please note, though, this is not saying there are three gods. In defending the doctrine of the Trinity and in examining the Oneness doctrine regarding the Godhead, it is first necessary to define the terms that are used. Since the Trinity doctrine states there are three persons in one God, and Oneness Pentecostal theology states there is only one person, we first need to know what a "person" is before we try to discover whether or not God is three persons or one. Therefore, what qualifies someone as having "personhood"? I offer the following analysis as an attempt to adequately define personhood. After the outline, I will attempt to show that the definition and/or characteristics of personhood can be applied to both the Father and the Son in a context that shows they both existed as persons at the same time, thereby proving Oneness theology is incorrect. What are the qualities and attributes of being a person? A person exists and has identity. A person is aware of his own existence and identity. This precludes the condition of being unconscious. A self aware person will use such a statement as "I am", "me", "mine", etc. A person can recognize the existence of other persons. This is true provided there were other persons around him or her. Such recognition would include the use of such statements as "you are", "you", "yours", etc. A person possesses a will. A will is the capability of conscious choice, decision, intention, desire, and or purpose. A single person cannot have two separate and distinct wills at the same time on the exact same subject. Regarding the exact same subject, a person can desire/will one thing at one moment and another at a different moment. Separate and simultaneous wills imply separate and simultaneous persons. A person has the ability to communicate -- under normal conditions. Persons do not need to have bodies. God the Father possesses personhood without a body, as do the angels. Biblically speaking, upon death we are "absent from the body and home with the Lord" (2 Cor. 5:8). God qualifies as having personhood in that He exists, is self aware, has identity, uses terms such as "Me", "I AM", "My", and possesses a will. The question now becomes whether or not there are more than one "persons" in the Godhead. "Let this cup pass from Me." "And he was withdrawn from them about a stone

Hey T&O, how have you been? Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I have been looking over the link that you posted. I just wanted to ask if the article on the meaning of person is considered mainstream for what trinitarians believe?

The following is a link to the bible colleges indorsed by the UPC. I hope you find something that helps. http://doe.upci.org/ME2/Audiences/dirsect....8B0FC37DFD19005

That's great as long as you're not being a prude amongst all those drunks. I was a bartender at the local legion for a couple of years and one of the most frequent comments I got was how I managed to dal with all those drunks. It was simple . They were like little kids misbehaving and I repremanded them like a parent when they got out of hand <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, just trying to give an analogy.