uvn477

I agree with everyone here that debating is good as long as personal attacks don't come from it. I've been the victim of personal attacks because I have a very liberal view for a Christian. You probably will too at one point or another if you haven't already. It would be nice if the person apologized if it was in the heat of the moment but most of the time we don't get that. We just have to forgive them and keep learning and responding.

First of all, I think people need to understand what the video is portraying. It does show exactly what some people think Jesus is. If you don't realize that you need to get out into the world and find out. Second, a lot of people see God as someone who has no sense of humor. Has anyone ever made a joke about you? I for one have been a target of jokes and I laugh alongside the people that make them. I don't get angry and condemn them. If God made me in His image and I can take a joke why can't He? In fact, I think our God should be a target for more of our jokes. He's our God, our Father, our friend and he tells us over and over how much he loves and cares for us. So why are we so afraid of laughing at Him or with Him?

One and only thing I'd ask is "when are you coming back?" If he answers that I'd live the rest of my life happy.

The Genesis account doesn't seem like a literal story about the creation. In fact, it seems more like a song or poem than anything else. From how all creation is arranged to it repeating certain lines over and over. I do believe it is an accurate blueprint for what really did occur. I don't think we can argue with science when science had proven it. I know there are some people who believe science is evil and should not be trusted. I don't think there's anyone like that here. At least I hope not. Anyway, science has proven that the universe is incredibly old and that the Earth itself is billions of years old. Most of that time the Earth was just a ball of fire before it had any life. The Bible could mean this as nothingness. So it really doesn't contradict the Bible to say the Earth is more than a couple thousand years old. In fact, its billions. Just my opinion.

Hi everyone! Wow I haven't been here for a while. Hope everyone is doing alright and I'm glad to be back. I've been through a lot while I was away. I was going to a lot of different churches and going to other countries. The majority of the places I've been have all been decent but there are some places that are so legalistic and dead. Which brings me to my topic. I'm sure many of you know about the Jesus videos which were made by Vintage 21. If you haven't seen them you can go to their website if they still have it up or go on youtube. It is a satire of what many people perceive Jesus as. I personally love them and laugh every time I see them. However, I went to this one church and it really ticked me off as to what happened. The pastor played the videos on the projector and my friend and I were like the only ones laughing in the entire congregation. Needless to say it was awkward when we got a couple of stares. What happened next though sent me over the edge. I've never been so angry during a service I thought I would stand up and challenge the pastor or something. He spent the next 30 minutes after the videos telling the congregation what sinners these people who made the video were and condemning the church that let it happen. He even looked right in our direction and told us that "whoever laughed would face the wrath of the Lord and should repent before his judgment fell on us". That's when I grabbed my friend and walked out the door. It took every effort not to flip that guy off for what he said and did. What's everyone else think about this?

I agree with you that this site is designed to glorify our Lord and savior. However, I also believe it to be a place of discussion, debate, and gaining a better understanding of the Bible. You can't live life pretending Christianity is the only religion out there. There are thousands which we must know about. How would you combat something like Islam when you know nothing about it. Ironically when Muslims engage in debates with Christians, they don't use the Koran, they use the Bible. You have to know the enemy to fight the enemy. Now let's discuss who the enemy is. Many Christians think the enemy is the Muslim. Yet the Muslim is only a victim of the true enemy which is the religion of Islam. This applies to all who deny Christ or follow other gods. I can see that you are a very faithful servant. However you can't defend Christ when you're not using the right weapons. Please take these words at heart and open your mind to what is out there.

I have to apologize to everyone because of my earlier post. I didn't mean to come out as so defensive. I just didn't expect the backlash I received from what I figured as a fun type of question. I had absolutely no problems discussing this topic with my other Christian friends and it was interesting to see what Christians would do if it weren't for Jesus. I just didn't expect to offend so many people with this question and have my own faith questioned. For the record, I am a Christian as many of you know and nothing can make me doubt my faith. I only mentioned the movie because it was what sparked this question with my friends. Maybe that was wrong on my part but I do a lot of dumb things. So once again I apologize to whoever I might have offended.

I am talking through my own experiences on the religion of Islam. American Muslims tend to say that real Islam is a religion of peace and tolerance. Now this confuses me because America tends to be the only place this type of Islam exists. Prevalent in the Middle East is what we in America have come to know as radical Islam. So I'm wondering which is the real Islam? Well after traveling to the Middle East, I can't help but believe the people who have practiced the same traditions for centuries and live in the birth place of this religion. I found that American Muslims believe in a liberl version of the true Muslim faith. It is kind of like Christians who hire homosexual clergy, promote abortion, practice premarital sex, and just do everything thats contradictory to the Bible and still claim to be Christians. One of my acquaintances in the Middle East told me that American Muslims were seen my the other Muslim communities around the world as the worst types of Muslims. After learning about the Koran and the religion itself, I found that American Muslims are very unreliable to speak about Islam to. It is a completely different religion to them. I know Muslims frequent this forum so I want to hear from you. What can you say to this?

"Can any of you so called Christians find anywhere in the Bible that Jesus said anything about trinity, just think about it and see that the trinity is false, your making God in to 3 things which is blasphamy." Jesus did not use the term trinity. In fact, the word "trinity" was derived later on however, to say that early church fathers never believed Jesus was God is illogical. During meetings of churches, the majority of churches always held the belief of the divinity of Jesus. The one or two churches which did not were seen as heretics. You can research it yourself if you do not believe me. In fact, I'll explain more of this if you wish. Also, Jesus himself did say that he indeed was God although not as ourtight as that. Some things in the Bible just do not make sense unless the belief that the "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one" exists. John 1:1-5 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. ...The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. Hebrews 1:1-9 This passage is a bit long so I'll let you look it up yourself. And for the sake of space I'll move onto smaller verses. John 10:30 I and the Father are one. John 12:44-45 Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me." Romans 9:5 Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen. Titus 2:13 While we wait for the blessed hope, the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Now let's turn our attention to the Holy Spirit. The trinity is not proven unless the Holy Spirit is said to be one with God. Acts 5:3-4 Then Peter said, "Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled you heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit... You have lied not to men but to God." Psalm 139:7-10 Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? If I go up to the heavens, you are there..." 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. Job 33:4 The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life. 2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. These Bible verses were provided with the help of Professor Larry Poston in Nyack College. As you can see, there is overwhelming evidence in the Bible that the trinity does indeed exist. There are things we just can't explain if it weren't true. I have heard arguments that Jesus saying "he and the Father are one" is nothing special. That belief makes us all one with God. But could you imagine me saying "If you look at me, you are seeing the Father." Or if I said, "I have made you and the Almighty has given you life." I would get stoned in record time. I hope this gives everyone an insight as to the validity of the trinity. The trinity is not blasphemous. The unbelief of it is. You are taking God and degrading him to the standard of man.

Alright I see I'm getting stoned here despite what I have proclaimed about my faith. First of all I know the movie is fiction but it does make you think. It brings up certain questions that Christians should think about. All I'm saying is that one of the more interesting ones I've come across is "what would you do if Christianity were false?" I'm glad that most Christians I've asked about this outside this forum could answer this honestly. Some said they would go off and try to find another religion which would bring them to the "true" God. Other said they'd abandon the notion of religion altogether. Others like me said they wouldn't change a thing. These were the types of answers I was seeking. Not a bunch of criticism about "even pondering this hypothetically" or "why I even went to see the movie if I were a Christian". All I wanted to know was what other Christians would do. It's not a sin so I'd appreciate people stop judging me. And I'd like to answer to answer some of the questions elkieDannsa' Air An Drochaid had asked. You say we need to counter things like this with "factual Historical Christ and true teaching." But how are we to do that when we are blind to the enemies tactics? Go see the movie and then know what the enemy is using. You can't really say that Christians shouldn't see the movie because it is blasphemous to Christ. If you watch 90 percent of the movies out there, its all blasphemous to Christ in one form or another. I think people are not seeing the word "hypothetical" or not getting it altogether in my question. Some people keep giving me answers like "even if Christianity was said to be a hoax it would be proven otherwise later." I'm asking a question "hypothetically". Which means it doesn't have to stay in the bounds of real things. So please stop answering my question like that.

This is another one of those topics that believers generally have to decide for themselves. It's kind of like the end times prophecies. It really doesn't have any relevance to salvation as long as you accept the sacrifice of the Lord. However, I tend to believe that Jesus did in fact die and remain in hell for three days. I'm conflicted on this matter however because of what Jesus said to the criminal next to him on the cross. He said on that day they'd be in paradise together. I guess its one of those things you'll just have to ask Jesus when you meet him.

Now this is just hypothetical. Everyone that knows me knows that I believe Christianity is true and that Jesus was our savior. But I just got done watching the DaVinci Code and my friend was like "what would you do if Christianity actually was proven to be a hoax without a doubt?" It kind of got me thinking as to what I'd do and what other people would do. I personally wouldn't change a thing. Human beings need a god and it shows all throughout history. Every culture has a god or gods because spiritually humans can't live without it. Even if it was proven that Jesus was not the savior I think I'd still worship him and consider him my God. That's just how my mind works. What about everyone else?

I've heard arguments going back and forth about this topic. Maybe its been brought up here before but I hope everyone can answer it for my sake anyway. So anyway I've heard about the different levels of hell for what the person did in their lives. Like a murderer would get a harsher punishment than a nonbeliever. I know this has some biblical reference and its not entirely made up. I just want to get the facts straight and I can't do it alone so I'm asking for some help in this. Can anyone explain in detail about this topic? Thanks in advance.

I'll make this quick and simple just as my pastor did for me. At a church barbecue I asked my pastor why I should go to church when it clearly says in the Bible to lock your door and pray in privacy. At the time, my pastor was setting up the grill. Instead of answering my question he took one of the red hot charcoals and tossed it onto the ground. I watched it go from amber red to cold and black. I didn't need him to say anything else. It doesn't matter where we stand with God currently. We are sinners and we will turn from God. If there is nothing heating us up then we fade and die. That is why church is necessary. Church is a responsibility, not a privelege.

Sorry if you thought I was coming out in a hostile or angry manner towards everyone. The thing is I truly have a hatred for legalism. I just can't stand it when someone does or says something legalistic. This doesn't just come out of thin air. I have personal experiences with this. For example, I try to spread the gospel using rap music to urban teens. Well at one of our shows someone outside was putting fliers on car windshields saying that any music with a beat can't be holy. Another time I was sitting in a youth group when the pastor started saying anyone watching or reading Harry Potter is sinning and better repent. Did I mention this was to a bunch of middle school kids? I just hate the fact that a lot of Christians even on these boards hate change. They think if its not done their way its the devil's way. I guess I just wanted to lash out at those legalists who've been giving me so much lip. Don't know if you've had any experience with this type of stuff personally but if it happens and most likely it will, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

LOL! It makes me laugh just to hear people talk about this. Pretty much my point is that people who preach that Harry Potter is evil are legalists. They're the same people who think any music with a beat is unholy or you have to spend so and so amount of time each day reading the Bible. Its a work of fiction and entertaining to people. I'm guessing some people are yelling out "witchcraft" right about now. Just because its based on an ungodly subject doesn't mean Christians should avoid it altogether. If you avoid that why not avoid the movies, TV, videogames, all secular books, the internet, music, you get my point. The fact is, on the day of judgment, God is not going to say, "You like Harry Potter! Go to hell!" It's just not going to happen. Same goes for shows like Spongebob. I'm sure Christians who have watched the show loved it and never even figured Spongebob was gay. Then the media says it and all of a sudden its evil. If you had no idea Spongebob was gay to begin with why do some of you think your children are being exposed to homosexuality. Well, I think I've said enough for tonight. I guess some of you might want to stone me right now so go ahead and let the stones fly. I'm sure I'm not alone in my opinions though.

Well its not my story either but I'm sure whoever did write it would want it to be circulated as much as possible. So go on ahead and email it to as many people as you can.

You have to remember first of all that Arabs and Muslims are two different things. Arabs are the people living in the Middle East. Muslims are those who have embraced a religious ideal. There are many Arabs who are Christians being persecuted in these Middle Eastern countries. There are many Arabs in America who are Christians also. You shouldn't have any anger towards them. As for Muslims, you have to remember that we are told to love our enemies. No matter what they do they must be loved and forgiven. If not, why should the Father forgive you? The problem is that Islam is an evil religion no matter what they say. Muslims in America say what the terrorists are doing is not real Islam. Well, I've been to the Middle East to discover what true Islam is like. The Islam of America and the Islam of the Middle East are two completely different things. The Islam of America is not Islam at all. They are a liberal version of the Koran. Its no wonder terrorists say the Muslims in America are the worst kind. Because they really are horrible Muslims if you actually read what the Koran says. The Koran tolerates violence and terrorism. Any means necessary to further the will of Allah. They also treat women like cattle in that region of the world. They kill Muslims who have abandoned their religion. They believe Christians and Jews are "dirty" and they are above us. As soon as I told some of these men I was a Christian, they looked at me like I was a disgusting piece of trash. When I asked my friend (who is a Muslim and my guide) why they do that, he said the Koran teaches it. I learned that they don't cover their girls until they reach the age of seven. Because that's the marriage age. Muhammed had a seven year old wife when he was 49. Funny how Muslims leave this kind of stuff out when talking about their religion. What I can't understand is how they believe Jesus, David, and all these people were prophets when they were clearly Jews. When I brought this up, they pretty much burst into anger. I was scared for my life at that moment. This is the type of religion Islam is. But we still have to understand one thing. Muslims themselves are victims to this religion. Especially women. I couldn't sleep for a while after I saw the way women were treated. I don't know if its true but I heard from my friend that if a woman is raped in that region she is executed for not being a virgin. I don't want to believe that and I pray to God its not true. I urge all of you to pray for these people. There's no reason to hate them because they're victims too.

A friend of mine gave me this story and I just wanted to share it with everyone. Forgive me if you've already heard this one. At the end of time, billions of people were seated on a great plain before God's throne. Most shrank back from the brilliant light before them. But some groups near the front talked heatedly, not cringing with cringing shame - but with belligerence. "Can God judge us? How can He know about suffering?", "snapped a pert young brunette. She ripped open a sleeve to reveal a tattooed number from a Nazi concentration camp. "We endured terror... beatings... torture... death!" In another group a Negro boy lowered his collar. "What about this?" he demanded, showing an ugly rope burn. "Lynched, for no crime but being black!" In another crowd there was a pregnant schoolgirl with sullen eyes: "Why should I suffer?" she murmured. "It wasn't my fault." Far out across the plain were hundreds of such groups. Each had a complaint against God for the evil and suffering He had permitted in His world. How lucky God was to live in Heaven, where all was sweetness and light. Where there was no weeping or fear, no hunger or hatred. What did God know of all that man had been forced to endure in this world? For God leads a pretty sheltered life, they said. So each of these groups sent forth their leader, chosen because he had suffered the most. A Jew, a negro, a person from Hiroshima, a horribly deformed arthritic, a thalidomide child. In the centre of the vast plain, they consulted with each other. At last they were ready to present their case. It was rather clever. Before God could be qualified to be their judge, He must endure what they had endured. Their decision was that God should be sentenced to live on earth as a man. Let him be born a Jew. Let the legitimacy of his birth be doubted. Give him a work so difficult that even his family will think him out of his mind. Let him be betrayed by his closest friends. Let him face false charges, be tried by a prejudiced jury and be convicted by a cowardly judge. Let him be tortured. At the last, let him see what it means to be terribly alone. Then let him die so there can be no doubt he died. Let there be a great host of witnesses to verify it. As each leader announced his portion of the sentence, loud murmurs of approval went up from the throng of people assembled. When the last had finished pronouncing sentence, there was a long silence. No one uttered a word. No one moved. For suddenly, all knew that God has already served His sentence. This story is called "The Long Silence". Maybe its been around for a while. I've never heard it and it helped me a lot when I was going through a tough time. Maybe it will help someone else.

I personally like the book. It is an act of fiction and should be treated as such. The thing that annoys me though is the author Dan Brown. This guy does more to turn people away from Christ in his interviews than he does in any of his books. He claims to have done so much research into this thing but if you actually read what he writes you see he just made stuff up. Being a scholar and historian myself I find this unbelieveable. Its clear he did little to no research at all. Even if he did he only stuck in things he wanted to believe and refused to put anything with real validity in his book. This last thing really annoys me. When he was asked if he was a Christian or not this is how he answsered. "Yes. Interestingly, if you ask three people what it means to be Christian, you will get three different answers. Some feel being baptized is sufficient. Others feel you must accept the Bible as absolute historical fact. Still others require a belief that all those who do not accept Christ as their personal savior are doomed to hell. Faith is a continuum, and we each fall on that line where we may. By attempting to rigidly classify ethereal concepts like faith, we end up debating semantics to the point where we entirely miss the obvious--that is, that we are all trying to decipher life's big mysteries, and we're each following our own paths of enlightenment. I consider myself a student of many religions. The more I learn, the more questions I have. For me, the spiritual quest will be a life-long work in progress." He's obviously redefining what being a Christian means. Just as he's trying to redefine history.

Whoa there! I agree with welcoming Christians who are fleeing Muslim persecution but to end Muslim immigration is just intolerant. Many people I know have come to the United States as Muslims and been converted. If they had stayed where they were, God only knows where they'd be. We should welcome all people to come and discover true Christianity in a land that does not kill you for being Christian. Persecution is a different story but its still not as bad as in some countries. Christians must first learn to respect and try to understand the views of others even if it is wrong. Only then can we truly make a difference in the lives of these people.

If you haven't already heard, our brother Abdul Rahman in Afghanistan, is facing the death sentence for only converting to Christianity from Islam. I don't have to go into detail about how I feel about this because we all have the same reaction to it. It's absolutely appalling that a country we helped to gain freedom from the Taliban is still killing people over stupid issues such as these. Rahman is seeking asylum outside of Afghanistan. Several Muslims have called for the execution of Rahman and he will not be safe until he gets out of there. Let's pray for the safety of our brother until he is safe. But above all else I urge you all to do something about this. Raise awareness of this issue with everyone you know. Even if they are not Christians tell them of the injustice going on. Make the free world stand up and defend what they preach. Make them bring our brother safely out of hostile territory. Do something! Let's not just sit there and act like this is not happening!

Hi everyone. Hope everyone is is alright. I'm looking for the verse that says God will forgive and forget as if the sin never happened. Key word here being "forget". Something along those lines. And please don't begin an argument over this issue by saying God doesn't forget anything. I'm well aware of that fact. But it also says God will treat a confessed sin as if it never happened. So if anyone can help me find that verse I'd be very thankful.

I think people are misinterpreting what I'm saying. I'm not saying that if you don't associate yourselves with non-Christians that you're intolerant. I used that as an example. I still can't believe people say I'm intolerant when I'm sitting at the same table as non-Christians. Its like going up to a white man sitting with a bunch of black people and calling him a racist. It seems ridiculous but I get it all the time. As for the Bible verse brought up by David, it means exactly what its saying. As soon as we accepted Christ we belong in the world of God. This world does hate us because of what we stand for. The world hated Jesus for what he was. Of course it will hate us too. What we need to do is learn to live with it and learn to fight back if necessary. And don't get the idea I mean in a violent way. People like Martin Luther King are good examples to fighting back in a world that hates us. Standing up for your beliefs even if it means death.