Heb 13:8

CHRISTMAS - Many have suggested a connection between Hanukkah and Christmas since both celebrations fall on the 25th of the month (Kislev/December). Although the Bible records the birth of the Messiah, no biblical basis exists for the date or observance of the Messiah's birthday. In fact, for more than three centuries, the early Church viewed the celebration of birthdays as a heathen custom. Yet, the dates of Hanukkah and Christmas are connected. Zeus was seen as the incarnation of the sun. Together with his goddess-mother, Rhea (the Queen of Heaven), they formed the Greek version of the mother/child cult founded in Babylon. Antiochus chose the 25th of the month to desecrate the Temple with his pagan sacrifice because it was the birthday of Zeus. It was the winter solstice, when days began to lengthen. Sun-worshiping pagans, therefore, celebrated December 25 as the birthday of the new sun. To the sun-worshiping Romans, Zeus was known as Jupiter. He was the son of Saturn and Ops. He was the supreme Roman deity and the father of the other pagan gods. December 17-24 was called Saturnalia (in honor of Saturn) and celebrated with unrestrained license. The Romans celebrated December 25th (the birthday of Zeus/Jupiter) as Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, "the Day of the Nativity of the Unconquered Sun". In the fourth century A.D., the Roman Church chose December 25 as the day to celebrate "Christ's Mass," a special mass in honor of Christ's birth. It was part of a concerted effort to "Christianize" pagan Roman rites so that all peoples of the empire could be brought into the Roman Church. For centuries, many segments of Christianity condemned the observance of December 25 as sun worship. A.H. Newman writes: "Christian preachers of the West and the Nearer East protested against the unseemly frivolity with which Christ's birthday was celebrated, while Christians of Mesopotamia accused their Western brethren of idolatry and sun-worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival. Yet the festival rapidly gained acceptance and became, at last, so firmly established that even the Protestant revolution of the sixteenth century was not able to dislodge it" (The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, pg 48) From the book "The Feasts of the Lord" by Kevin Howard and Marvin Rosenthal Pg 172

Are you new to christian forums, lol.

2 John 1:2...56 pages later lol.

Underline: What I believe is that the 70 weeks have passed and the abomination of desolation spoken of in Dan 9:27 is about Titus the prince. If what others are saying is true, and fulfillment of Dan 9:24 comes to a close at the end of the 70th week, then why does scripture say the curse will be lifted after the millennium and not before.. Isa 65:20 "Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. Rev 22:3 No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.

I agree. But if pre-trib, mid-trib or pre-wrath doesn't exist then when does rapture occur is my question. On 9/23/17? There's a lot of similar language in Matt 24, Isa 13 and Rev 6. Scripture seems to point rapture to the Day of the Lord after six seal, but I'm studying past fulfillment now. I've studied future stuff for five years, and have only recently begun past fulfillment. I see Matt 24:3 as past only..http://theolivetdiscourse.com/explanation-of-the-olivet-discourse/ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Matthew 24:3 Messiah’s purpose in this discourse was not at all to give His people signs of His coming again, but to warn that generation of believers of the approaching destruction of Jerusalem, and to give to them a sure sign whereby they might, and whereby in fact His own people did, secure their safety by fleeing the land and city. (PM) “thy coming” refers to “these things”, the destruction of the temple; not Messiah. They were asking what is the sign of the things that he just proclaimed about the temple being desolated. The NIV/ESV/NKJ incorrectly say “what will be the sign of your coming”, making it seem like Messiah’s 2nd coming. The Greek word for coming is parousia; from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specially, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect:—coming, presence. Messiah was surely present during the desolation of the temple, city and Jews; not in the sense of His return to earth, but that He commanded it and oversaw it. Notice that the other two recordings of the Olivet Discourse do not include the question about the end of the world: Mark 13:4, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled? Luke 21:7, And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass? The word ‘world‘ should be translated as ‘age‘. The Greek word aiōn means: properly an age; by extension perpetuity (also past); by implication the world; specifically (Jewish) a Messianic period. The same word is used in Hebrews 9:26, which is referring to Messiah’s sacrifice occurring in the latter days of the Jewish age. “For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.” Matthew was asking about the end of the age, a time period, not the end of the world. Had that been the intent, the Greek word kosmos would have been used. Messiah had just declared in Matthew 23 that the Jewish leaders would be desolated, which would end the existence of the Jewish nation. The destruction of the Temple would have been considered the end of the world to the Jewish people, to whom Matthew was primarily writing. (FNL) The ‘former days‘ of the Jewish nation ended when the Jews were taken captive by the Babylonians. The ‘latter days‘ of the Jewish nation started when they were released from Babylonian captivity in the 5th century B.C., and they ended in 70 A.D. So it should read “of the end of the age“. The New King James gets the translation correct. Coke’s Commentary on the Holy Bible The sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world, are only different expressions to denote the same period with the destruction of Jerusalem; for they conceived, that when Jerusalem should be destroyed, then would be the coming of Christ; and when the coming of Christ, then the end of the world; or rather, as it should be rendered, the conclusion of the age. John Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Which two are put together, as what they supposed would be at the same time, and immediately follow the destruction of the temple. That he was come in the flesh, and was the true Messiah, they firmly believed: he was with them, and they expected he would continue with them, for they had no notion of his leaving them, and coming again. When he at any time spake of his dying and rising from the dead, they seemed not to understand it: wherefore this coming of his, the sign of which, they inquire, is not to be understood of his coming a second time to judge the world, at the last day; but of his coming in his kingdom and glory, which they had observed him some little time before to speak of; declaring that some present should not die, till they saw it: wherefore they wanted to be informed, by what sign they might know, when he would set up his temporal kingdom; for since the temple was to be destroyed, they might hope a new one would be built, much more magnificent than this, and which is a Jewish notion; and that a new state of things would commence; the present world, or age, would be at a period; and the world to come, they had so often heard of from the Jewish doctors, would take place; and therefore they ask also, of the sign of the end of the world, or present state of things in the Jewish economy: to this Christ answers, in the latter part of this chapter, though not to the sense in which they put the questions; yet in the true sense of the coming of the son of man, and the end of the world; and in such a manner, as might be very instructive to them, and is to us.

Gotcha.

Forums and the internet are of the flesh. There is no peace here.

1 Seal - 96 – 180 A.D / Crown is actually translated wreath in Greek. The white horse represents the conquering Roman Empire, from 96 – 180 A.D., as it was a time of its greatest expansion and their military conquests were celebrated by riding white horses in their victory parades. Cretan Roman Emperors Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius, each had a bow as their symbol. The crown represents the laurel wreathes of victory that were worn by the Caesars after their armies had won a military battle. 2 Seal - 180-284 A.D / The Red horse represents a bloody time in the Roman Empire from 180-284 A.D., as it went into a phase of revolution and civil war for 90 years, during which there were 32 emperors and 27 contenders for the throne. John uses the word ghay for earth, which means “a region.” 3 Seal - 222-235 A.D. / To hurt not the oil and the wine, means to be not unjust to them. In other words, let the taxation be fair as compared to the prices of wheat and barley, instead of raising the prices on oil and wine even more. In those days, oil and wine were not just luxuries, but they served many purposes in people’s lives. Paul told Timothy, “No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.” The agricultural industry was ruined under this heavy taxation, which lead to famine. People moved away from the farmlands into the cities, where they would suffer from the famine. 4 Seal - 250-300 A.D. / The Pale horse represents 1/4th of Romans dying from famine, plague, pestilence and violence, from 250-300 A.D. The word ‘earth‘ means land, not the whole Earth. The Roman Empire is the land/earth of prophecy. Remember that the Lord Jesus is judging the pagan Roman Empire because they killed millions of Christians. He is avenging justice for their deaths. The color of the horse represents the condition of the Roman people at that time, and the description of the rider represents the cause of their condition. The pale horse represents an era of death in the Roman Empire. Again, it’s not speaking of the whole Earth, just the Roman Earth. 5 Seal - 303-312 A.D. / It represents the millions of martyrs who were killed by the Roman Empire, especially the Smyrna church martyrs who Emperor Diocletian persecuted for 10 years, from 303-312 A.D. Their blood is crying out for the Lord to avenge their deaths. The reason that Jesus opened the first four seals was to avenge the blood of the 10 million martyrs who had been killed by the Roman Empire. There are two groups of martyrs spoken of in Revelation. The first was those who were killed by the Roman Empire. The second group were killed during the Dark Ages and the Inquisition came, when from 50-100 million martyrs were slain by Papal Rome and the countries that they controlled. 6 Seal - 324 A.D. / Earthquakes in the prophecy represent great political upheavals. Eastern Emperor Constantine defeated Diocletian’s army in 312 A.D., which ended the persecutions. Diocletian (the Sun) was so panic stricken, he died insane. Constantine defeated emperors Maxentius and Licinius to become sole ruler of both west and east by 324 A.D. The Roman leaders (stars) fell and their power receded as a scroll. The mountains and islands that were moved out of place, were the countries and people that were affected by this political change. The 6th seal of Revelation represents Jesus exacting justice against the Roman Empire, for shedding the blood of the saints. 7 Seal - It represents the Lord preparing to blow 7 trumpets of war against the pagan Roman Empire, when he sent army after army against them. So why did the Lord switch from Seals to Trumpets? In the Old Testament, the blowing of trumpets was often used to proclaim that God was about to pronounce judgment upon a wicked system, city, country or people. The seventh seal is divided into seven Trumpet judgments, as the Lord sent the Goths, Vandals, Huns, Heruli, Saracens and Turks, to invade and scourge the Roman territory.

What about a "believers bashing thread".

You defend religion, catholicis

RElgion doesn't save you.

My issue was fitting Matt 24 into a future seven years. Pre-wrath rapture just seems to fit into Dan 9:27, but I also see Matt 24 as past now.

ok. can you believe it took me five years to finally figure that out. 70 weeks past. why did it take me so long.

No not really, but that's ok. Let's depart here. This is exhausting. Goodbye.

It's all about how you see the Gospel, in the bigger sense. We see it from two different views. Do you beleieve God has the power to save. by all accounts on this forum the whole of mankind is doomed to death, no faith in God only in ones self.

Underline: Matt 7:21 is not speaking of born again christians. It's referring to false teachers. You must be born again to see the kingdom of God. Do you wanna be God to save your own life, or do you want to go to God to have life. I'm guessing you are striving to be God, no? Matt 16:25 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will find it. John 5:39-40 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

Underline: Belief did save him. Belief is what saves a person. Demons believe Jesus is God, but not their savior RP. Rom 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

God doesn't make exceptions RP. Either you are born again or not. Man makes exceptions with man made doctrines (baptism of desire?? lol). The thief on the cross believed that Jesus is God, that is what saves you. Belief.

Their not gonna listen to you. They know the truth, they just haven't believed it yet. Only God can change them. They work in a different kingdom than we do. They're just following orders. We belong to Christ and they belong to..John 8:44

John 5:39-40 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

n/a

Underline: Correcto. John 8:34-36 NIV Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. Rom 1:6 NIV And you also are among those who are called to belong to Jesus Christ. Rom 8:9-11 NIV You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies because of his Spirit who lives in you. Rom 14:8 NIV If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 2 Cor 10:7 NIV You are looking only on the surface of things. If anyone is confident that he belongs to Christ, he should consider again that we belong to Christ just as much as he. Gal 2:12 NIV Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. Gal 3:29 NIV If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Gal 5:24 NIV Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Gal 6:10 NIV Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. Heb 10:38-39 NIV And, “But my righteous one will live by faith. And I take no pleasure in the one who shrinks back.” 39But we do not belong to those who shrink back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved. 1 John 2:19 NIV They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

No, if we BELIEVE. John 3:16, 1 Pet 3:21. We all have the ability to kill, but do we do it? No. Why is that?