Quasar93

Negative! Review the Scriptural facts about the, "Seventy Weeks Are Determined Upon Thy People," below: The following is a complete analysis Of the amazing prophecy found in the book of Daniel. We will begin in Dan.9:24 where the angel Gabriel is giving this prophecy to Daniel, the prophet. "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." 1. Referrence here is to what God has decreed upon Daniel's people, Israel. [It has nothing at all to do with the church!] 2. See Gen.29:27 to explain that this biblical term of "one week" equals seven years. So the 70 weeks here, represents a total of 490 years, or 7 X 70.] Vs.25. "Know, therefore, and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah, the Prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks; [49 + 420 + 14 = 483 years, covering 69 of the 70 weeks,] the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times." [See Neh.2:1-8.] According to Sir Robert Armstrong, of the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England, the exact date of King Artaxerxes, of Persia, gave the decree for some of the Israeli exiles to return to Jerusalem on March 14, 446 BC. [From 446 B.C. to Messiah the Prince, in Dan.9:25, equates into 69 Weeks, or 483 years, leaving the 70th and final Week of 7 years yet to be fulfilled]. From the 69 weeks [Of years] from above, or 483 years, multiplied by the 360 days of the Hebrew year, equals 173,880 days. Vs.26. "And after threescore and two weeks..."[Which followed the first 7 weeks, or 49 years of vs 25, referring to the dedication of the completed building of the city and walls of Jerusalem, in the 32nd year of the Persian king, Artaxerxes, in the 7th month, [Neh.5:14 and 8:1] leaving 62 more weeks, or 434 more years [For a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years] to the triumphant entry of Jesus into Jerusalem]. Culminating in a total of 69 weeks, or 483 years from the Persian King, Artaxerxes Decree on March 14th, 446 BC. and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary, and the end of it shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined." After Jesus was crucified, the Roman [prince] Titus comes with his legions and destroyed Jerusalem and the second temple in 70 AD, after bitter fighting, scattering Israel and the Jewish people into their diaspora. To establish the time Jesus began His ministry, and approximate age, we find the evidence in Luke 3:1 and 3:23. Lk.3:1. "Now in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilot being governor of Judaea, and Herod being tetrarch of Galilee, and his brother Philip, tetrarch of Ituraea and of the region of Thrachonitis and Lysanias, the tetrarch of Abilene, Annas and Caiaphas being the high priests, the word of God came unto John, the son of Zacharias, in the wilderness." Which brings us to 29 AD and Jesus is about 30 years of age. Lk.3:23. "And Jesus Himself began to be about 30 years of age, [When all Jewish priests begin their priesthood.]being [as was supposed] the son of Joseph, who was the son of Heli," Back to Daniel's prophecy of 70 weeks of years decreed upon his people, for a moment. We have determined as we fast close on all of the 69 weeks, 483 years, and 173,880 days in the Hebrew 360 day year as to exactly where it will take us. Jn.12:12-13. "On the next day many people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees and and went forth to meet Him, and cried Hosanna! Blessed is the King of Israel, that cometh in the name of the Lord." April 6th 32 AD. [According to the Royal Observatory, Greenwich, England.] Exactly 173,880 days from King Artaxerxes of Persia, decree of March 14,446 BC. [From Neh.2:1-8. Based on the 360 day Hebrew year. Which makes no difference whatever from a 365.2425 day year, when all the necessary corrections are made]. 360 X 483 = 173,880 days. 1. 32 years [AD] X 365 days in our year = 11,680 days. 2. 445 years [BC] X 365 days in our year = 162,425 days. 3. Total 174,105 days divided by 365 = 477 years. 4. Plus 24 days between the date of the decree in 445 BC and Jesus cut-off in 32 AD = 477 years, 24 days 5. Subtract one year because there is no year zero between 1 BC and 1 AD. = 476 years, 24 days. 6. 476 years X 365 days = 173,740 days +24 = 173,764 Days 7. Add days of the leap years over 476 years. Divided by 4 = 119 days = 173,883 days 8. Subtract 1/128 Calendar year day for every solar year: Leap year omitted every 128 years.= -3 days = 173,880 days! Which reveals the 360 day prophetic year of Israel is the very same as our present 365.2425 day year when all the corrections have been made to the latter. The 70th week of Daniel's prophecy, of the final 7 years, is the Tribulation, or Jacob's Trouble [Jer.30:7.] which will conclude the 490 year prophecy decreed upon his people, with a 2,000 year parenthetic in between, that covers the entire church age! That there is a gap of time between verses 26 and 27 is amplified and confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15, in His reference to the abomination of desolation in Dan.9:27, and of His second coming in verse 30, in His response to the disciples questions as to the signs of His return and of the end of the age. Dan.9:27. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate." Quasar93

Bulls eye! Amen to that! Quasar93

Comes now Views from Scriptural facts that refute some of the above post: Yes, quite right, "he" who confirms a covenant with many, in Dan.927, is indeed the Antichrist as follows below: (1) ANTICHRIST: Applying the accepted rule of interpretation and observing the text for the nearest antecedent of the pronoun he (without bias or influence by other "experts"), this he most closely parallels the prince who is to comein the previous passage (Daniel 9:26). This is the conclusion reached by most conservative evangelical commentaries, who go on to identify him as the Little Horn (Antichrist) who "came up among the (10) horns" of the fourth beast (fourth kingdom ~ "Revived Rome") chapter 7 of Daniel (Da 7:8,11-note Da 7:20, 21-note). It is interesting that both Christ and Antichrist are referred to as "prince" (synonymous with "king"), for the prefix "anti-" means the regal imposter is not only opposed to or against Christ, but "instead of" or a substitute for the real Christ. We know that the prince's people (Rome) destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and can deduce that this coming princehas his ancestral roots in the ancient Roman Empire and is thus part of what is often referred to as "the revived Roman Empire", the final Gentile world government described in Romans 7 (see Da 7:7-note, Da 7:19-note). In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, John records this vision... And he stood on the sand of the seashore. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems ("ten king stage" of the beast in Da 7), and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion (Ed: Note how this is the reverse of the sequence of same beasts in Da 7:1, 2,3, 4, 5, 6-note - John is looking back in time and sees the leopard first = Greece, bear = Medo-Persia, Lion = Babylon). And the dragon (Satan) gave him (Antichrist) his power and his throne and great authority. (Notice how the term "beast" merges subtlety from a beastly kingdom to the king of that kingdom in the latter part of the verse) (Re 13:1-note; Re 13:2-note; see also study of The Beast; and Beasts, Heads, and Horns) (2) CHRIST: Some such as Edward Young and Phillip Mauro interpret the "He" as a reference to the Messiah primarily because the entire prophecy is about the Messiah and the premise that there is no (to use their words) "future 'prince' making a covenant with" Israel. This interpretation makes little sense because the new covenant in His blood is an everlasting covenant, not a seven year covenant and not a covenant which He will ever break. God is a covenant keeping God! How can the reference be to Christ when we have just been introduced to the prince who is to come which describes one out of the Roman empire? Christ did not come from the Roman Empire but from Israel. Furthermore, when did Christ make a firm covenant with many Jews for one week (seven year period)? And how can it be said of Christ that “in the midst of the week” He caused the sacrifices to cease? Sacrifices continued in the Temple some 40 years after Messiah was cut off, well past the 7 years of the 70th Week. Clearly, the "he" is not Christ. Harry Ironside agrees that "He" is not the Messiah writing... Ere closing I briefly notice a rather peculiar interpretation which is frequently given to the 27th verse. It is said that the Lord Jesus is Himself to be the prince that shall come who confirms the covenant for one week. His own crucifixion is supposed to be the event which caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. But neither chronologically nor doctrinally will this stand for a moment, if examined in the light of other scriptures. With whom did the Lord Jesus ever confirm a covenant for seven years? His precious blood is called ”the blood of the everlasting covenant;” not a covenant for one week of years. We may rest assured it is not Messiah at all, but the blasphemous prince who is yet to come, who will fulfil what is predicted in this verse. How near this world may be to the actual entering upon all these things no man can say, but it is the part of wisdom to learn from the prophetic Scriptures, and to turn now to Him who alone can save; to own Him as Redeemer and Lord, and thus be certain of being caught up to meet Him when He comes in the clouds, ere the time comes for His righteous judgment to be poured out upon this poor world. (Daniel - H A Ironside) (Logos) (Wordsearch) Ray adds... In deciding between the Messiah or the “prince to come” as the antecedent, Barnes contends “it is not reasonable to suppose that the latter is referred to, because it is said (Da 9:26) that the effect and the purpose of his coming would be to ‘destroy the city and the sanctuary.’ In other words Barnes is saying the prince is coming to make peace. He is wrong on two accounts. Da 9:26 says it is the people of the prince, not the prince himself, who execute the destruction. Too, he is implying it is reasonable to suppose the Messiah would bring about the devastation. To assume Da 9:27 deals with Christ is presumptuous, for that is the very question for which interpreters are seeking an answer. Lastly, it is not unthinkable a future leader would bring about such an agreement with Israel; people will do almost anything to have peace in the Middle East....Leupold and Keil are some of the few non-pre-millenarians who admit the “he” is the antichrist. (A Study of Daniel 9:24 - 27, Part III) (3) ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES: (See related discussion on Antiochus Epiphanes - Da 8:9-note, Da 8:17-note, Da 8:19-note; see also Daniel notes and additional discussion) The liberal commentator Montgomery (who to my utter amazement does not even interpret Da 9:25, 26 as a prophecy of Christ's first coming - See list of other Non-Christological Interpreters) identifies the "He" as Antiochus Epiphanes. Montgomery feels that this prophecy was fulfilled in the second century before Christ noting how apostate Jews cooperated with Antiochus (see 1Mac 1:11, 12,13, 14, 15). (4) A WEEK: The pronoun He has even been interpreted as a week by some who take he as neuter (not masculine), but such an interpretation of makes absolutely no sense in context. It does emphasize how far some commentators are willing to go in an attempt to "jettison" a literal, futuristic interpretation. In summary, even applying the elementary grammatical rule of examination of the context for the nearest antecedent noun ("prince" in Da 9:26), there is little question that the pronoun He in Da 9:27 is the future Antichrist, the evil end times anti-Semitic leader who is known by many names in Scripture (see table). And as you review the list of the names of the Antichrist, remember that in Scripture one's name speaks of one's character. For the complete article: http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_927.htm Quasar93

I posted the following in another thread, that is pertinent to one if the issue in the above post. To ID the "prince of the people to come," in Dan.9:26, as follows: >>>As a point of Scriptural fact about the "prince of the people to come," in Dan.9 Dan.9:26 "After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.g The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed" Many well known Christian expositors refer to the prince of the people to come, in verse 26, as the "he" who confirms a covenant for many, in verse 27. However, the prince of the people to come, translates into the historical fact, was General Titus, and the people, the Roman army. The Scriptures do not support this prince to be the "he," i.e., the Antichrist of verse 27. 69 of the 70 weeks of Daniel, 483 years, were fulfilled at the end of verse 26, in 70 A.D. Followed by the interval we are no living in, consisting of the entire Church age. Terminating with the rapture of the Church, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. Followed by Dan.9:27, the revealing of the "he/Antichrist who triggers the the 7 year tribulation; the Day of the Lord; terminating with the second coming of Jesus, WITH His Church following Him; dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, on Rev.19:14: when Jesus ends the tribulation at the battle of Armageddon, recorded in Rev.10:11-21.<<< Qyasar93

The very first paragraph of the OP refutes any idea of there not being the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, according to the Scriptures. As postd below, for your review: >>> The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options!<<< Quasar93

This is the first key to understanding all scripture. The fundamental issue to settle is the correct rules of interpreting Bible Prophecy. Different prophetic viewpoints mostly come from differing approaches to interpretation. Literal or Plain Interpretation means we must interpret prophecy like all other scripture - in its plain meaning according to the laws of language, as the author intended it and as the original hearers would have understood it. This has far-reaching consequences. Literal interpretation requires us to read any passage in context, so that our understanding of it must fit with what comes before and after it. Moreover since we believe the whole Bible together forms the Word of God, our interpretation must also fit (agree) with the rest of Scripture. Opposing the LITERAL approach is an ALLEGORICAL (spiritualising) approach to prophecy, which allows people to change (twist) the obvious meaning of a verse, to fit their preconceived ideas. The literal approach is to take all scripture in its plain meaning, unless it does not make sense and is obviously meant to be interpreted symbolically. However, the other approach often rejects the literal meaning of a scripture and tries to replace it by a ‘spiritual’ interpretation, even when its plain meaning makes perfect sense. Literal interpretation does not mean we cannot see spiritual parallels to the literal fulfilment or make spiritual applications of it, but first of all, it upholds the literal fulfilment of the prophecy. Now prophetic literature (like the Book of Revelation) contains much language that is obviously symbolic and pictorial, to help us understand and visualise unfamiliar spiritual realities by comparing them to familiar things around us. Literal interpretation means we interpret obvious symbolic language accordingly. Three examples to test if you read prophecy literally: (1) Isaiah 11:6-9: ‘the wolf will lie down with the lamb’. The transformation of the animal kingdom or harmony of all kinds of people in the Church? (2) Revelation 7:1-8: Will there literally be 144,000 evangelists from Israel, 12,000 from each tribe, or is this a symbolic of the Church? (3) Revelation 20:1-7 Will there be a literal 1,000 years as described here,or is it simply symbolic of a long time-period? We can still bring forth spiritual types, analogies and allegories from a literal understanding as long as we don't deny their primary and plain meaning. In fact, it is essential to grasp their plain meaning before making spiritual application from them. Moreover we can apply to the Church, God’s promises to Israel concerning the New Covenant (see Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:7-13), because although the New Covenant belongs first of all to Israel, we have been baptised into Christ (Abraham’s seed), and thus we qualify to participate fully in the spiritual blessings of the New Covenant. The main reason that there are so many views and interpretations on Bible prophecy causing much confusion, is the failure to take the Bible literally in this area. (While there are, of course, differences among those who take it literally, these are relatively minor). The ultimate root of this failure to believe the prophetic scriptures according to their plain meaning is of course unbelief. We are further encouraged to interpret Prophecy plainly because: 1. Bible Believers use literal interpretation to interpret all other areas of scripture doctrine. But many spiritualise prophecy. Why should prophecy be the exception? This leads to inconsistencies. For example some prophecies to Israel (the negative ones) are taken literally, while the positive ones are spiritualised and applied to the Church. 2. Without literal interpretation, there is no way to know the real meaning and no control over how to interpret scripture. It leaves the door open for wild uncontrolled interpretation. It means that we are free to supply whatever meaning we want. Literal interpretation is the only way to be in submission to God's Word (spiritualising allows us to make it mean whatever we want). Otherwise we are in danger of tampering with the word of God which can have serious consequences as Revelation 22:18,19 warns us strongly. We are not to add to it meanings that are not there, or take away from what it is saying, but simply to discover what it is saying in plain language and submit to it. 3. Some 20% of Bible prophecy has already been fulfilled. HOW? Literally (e.g Jesus was born in literal Bethlehem - Micah 5:2). Will not the rest be fulfilled likewise? 4. If prophecy is not fulfilled literally how will you know if it has been fulfilled or not? If someone predicts you will get a job in Nottingham next month but you instead you get a job in Oxford, is the prophecy fulfilled? What would you say to someone who says ‘it is fulfilled, for Oxford is spiritual Nottingham’? Or what if a prophecy said you would get a million pounds tomorrow, but nothing arrived and then you were told the prophecy really meant that you would just feel like a million pounds! Would you consider it fulfilled? 5. If prophecy to Israel is not fulfilled literally to Israel, then God is a deceiver. What if God has made promises to you, only to be told later: ‘I did not mean you, Tom, I was giving the promise to someone else - ‘spiritual Tom’! If God is not faithful to His promises to Israel but breaks His Word to them, then we could have no assurance that He will be faithful to His promises to us! 6. The reward of reading prophecy literally means the Bible comes alive. It makes sense and it all fits together as a masterpiece, as I hope to show. Much truth is lost in denying the obvious meaning. In previous times it was harder to believe that prophecy would be fulfilled literally. The idea of Israel coming back to the land and of various events of the Book of Revelation taking place may have seemed impossible. But today, as we see the world change scientifically and politically it seems to be right up to date. Now, Bible- believers have no excuse not to believe that it will all be literally fulfilled. 7. Jesus understood and interpreted prophecy literally (compare Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15). Moreover, as we have already pointed out, His final words of warning (Rev 22:18-20) require us to interpret prophecy in its plain meaning. 8. The national rebirth of the nation of Israel in 1948, against all odds, in fulfilment of Bible Prophecy, is a sure proof that God is fulfillling prophecy literally. When certain courageous believers in the 19th Century pointed out that Israel must be restored to her land they they laughed at by those who did not take prophecy literally, because it seemed so impossible. How could a nation be reborn after 2000 years? Such a thing had never been heard of.Yet through the fires of the Holocaust Israel came to birth just as the Bible said it would, and it took its place as the major sign that we are now in the end-times. For the full article: http://www.oxfordbiblechurch.co.uk/p...ex/literal.php Quasa93

First of all, have you ever wondered how the elect, Jesus angels gather from one end of the heavens to the other got there at Jesus second coming to the earth, on Mt.24:31? We know the elect they gather from the four winds refer to Israel. So how did those elec get into heaven? Beginning with Jn.14:2-4 and 28:"In my Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you [See Jn.20:17]. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. You know the way to the place where I am going." [Jn.14:2-4]. "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." [Jn.14:28]. A look at 1 Thes.4:13-17: "We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him [Died physically]. Vs 14. "According to the Lord's own word [Scriptural truth as to the fact that Jesus taught there was to be a pre-trib rapture of the Church, as recorded in Jn.14:2-4 and 28], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left to the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep." Vs 15. "For the Lord Himself will come down from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." Vs 16. "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the sky. And so we will be with the Lord forever." Vs 17. Where we proceed with Jesus to our Father in heaven as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. The precise timing of the rapture of the Church: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine]. In vs 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below. Jerome translated the Greek "apostasia," to the Latin "discessio" in vs 3, which means "departure" also. The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed: In vs 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he is taken out of the way." The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," the rapture of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that: In vs 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21]. Notice where you find the raptured Church returning with Jesus from the wedding in heaven, in Rev.19:7-8, in His second coming in Zech,14:4-5; Jude 14 and Rev.19:14. Also notice how Jesus angels are gathering His elect from the four winds [Israel] and from the one end of the heavens to the other [Church]. Would you care to hazard a guess as to how the Church got into heaven at Jesus second coming and why they are seen returning with Him in His armies from heaven in Rev.19:14? Quasar93

As a point of Scriptural fact about the "prince of the people to come," in Dan.9 Dan.9:26 "After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be put to death and will have nothing.g The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed" Many well known Christian expositors refer to the prince of the people to come, in verse 26, as the "he" who confirms a covenant for many, in verse 27. However, the prince of the people to come, translates into the historical fact, was General Titus, and the people, the Roman army. The Scriptures do not support this prince to be the "he," i.e., the Antichrist of verse 27. 69 of the 70 weeks of Daniel, 483 years, were fulfilled at the end of verse 26, in 70 A.D. Followed by the interval we are no living in, consisting of the entire Church age. Terminating with the rapture of the Church, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28; 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. Followed by Dan.9:27, the revealing of the "he/Antichrist who triggers the the 7 year tribulation; the Day of the Lord; terminating with the second coming of Jesus, WITH His Church following Him; dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, on Rev.19:14: when Jesus ends the tribulation at the battle of Armageddon, recorded in Rev.10:11-21. Qyasar93

Yes, quite right, "he" who confirms a covenant with many, in Dan.927, is indeed the Antichrist as follows below: (1) ANTICHRIST: Applying the accepted rule of interpretation and observing the text for the nearest antecedent of the pronoun he (without bias or influence by other "experts"), this he most closely parallels the prince who is to comein the previous passage (Daniel 9:26). This is the conclusion reached by most conservative evangelical commentaries, who go on to identify him as the Little Horn (Antichrist) who "came up among the (10) horns" of the fourth beast (fourth kingdom ~ "Revived Rome") chapter 7 of Daniel (Da 7:8,11-note Da 7:20, 21-note). It is interesting that both Christ and Antichrist are referred to as "prince" (synonymous with "king"), for the prefix "anti-" means the regal imposter is not only opposed to or against Christ, but "instead of" or a substitute for the real Christ. We know that the prince's people (Rome) destroyed Jerusalem in 70 A.D., and can deduce that this coming princehas his ancestral roots in the ancient Roman Empire and is thus part of what is often referred to as "the revived Roman Empire", the final Gentile world government described in Romans 7 (see Da 7:7-note, Da 7:19-note). In the Revelation of Jesus Christ, John records this vision... And he stood on the sand of the seashore. And I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems ("ten king stage" of the beast in Da 7), and on his heads were blasphemous names. 2 And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion (Ed: Note how this is the reverse of the sequence of same beasts in Da 7:1, 2,3, 4, 5, 6-note - John is looking back in time and sees the leopard first = Greece, bear = Medo-Persia, Lion = Babylon). And the dragon (Satan) gave him (Antichrist) his power and his throne and great authority. (Notice how the term "beast" merges subtlety from a beastly kingdom to the king of that kingdom in the latter part of the verse) (Re 13:1-note; Re 13:2-note; see also study of The Beast; and Beasts, Heads, and Horns) (2) CHRIST: Some such as Edward Young and Phillip Mauro interpret the "He" as a reference to the Messiah primarily because the entire prophecy is about the Messiah and the premise that there is no (to use their words) "future 'prince' making a covenant with" Israel. This interpretation makes little sense because the new covenant in His blood is an everlasting covenant, not a seven year covenant and not a covenant which He will ever break. God is a covenant keeping God! How can the reference be to Christ when we have just been introduced to the prince who is to come which describes one out of the Roman empire? Christ did not come from the Roman Empire but from Israel. Furthermore, when did Christ make a firm covenant with many Jews for one week (seven year period)? And how can it be said of Christ that “in the midst of the week” He caused the sacrifices to cease? Sacrifices continued in the Temple some 40 years after Messiah was cut off, well past the 7 years of the 70th Week. Clearly, the "he" is not Christ. Harry Ironside agrees that "He" is not the Messiah writing... Ere closing I briefly notice a rather peculiar interpretation which is frequently given to the 27th verse. It is said that the Lord Jesus is Himself to be the prince that shall come who confirms the covenant for one week. His own crucifixion is supposed to be the event which caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. But neither chronologically nor doctrinally will this stand for a moment, if examined in the light of other scriptures. With whom did the Lord Jesus ever confirm a covenant for seven years? His precious blood is called ”the blood of the everlasting covenant;” not a covenant for one week of years. We may rest assured it is not Messiah at all, but the blasphemous prince who is yet to come, who will fulfil what is predicted in this verse. How near this world may be to the actual entering upon all these things no man can say, but it is the part of wisdom to learn from the prophetic Scriptures, and to turn now to Him who alone can save; to own Him as Redeemer and Lord, and thus be certain of being caught up to meet Him when He comes in the clouds, ere the time comes for His righteous judgment to be poured out upon this poor world. (Daniel - H A Ironside) (Logos) (Wordsearch) Ray adds... In deciding between the Messiah or the “prince to come” as the antecedent, Barnes contends “it is not reasonable to suppose that the latter is referred to, because it is said (Da 9:26) that the effect and the purpose of his coming would be to ‘destroy the city and the sanctuary.’ In other words Barnes is saying the prince is coming to make peace. He is wrong on two accounts. Da 9:26 says it is the people of the prince, not the prince himself, who execute the destruction. Too, he is implying it is reasonable to suppose the Messiah would bring about the devastation. To assume Da 9:27 deals with Christ is presumptuous, for that is the very question for which interpreters are seeking an answer. Lastly, it is not unthinkable a future leader would bring about such an agreement with Israel; people will do almost anything to have peace in the Middle East....Leupold and Keil are some of the few non-pre-millenarians who admit the “he” is the antichrist. (A Study of Daniel 9:24 - 27, Part III) (3) ANTIOCHUS EPIPHANES: (See related discussion on Antiochus Epiphanes - Da 8:9-note, Da 8:17-note, Da 8:19-note; see also Daniel notes and additional discussion) The liberal commentator Montgomery (who to my utter amazement does not even interpret Da 9:25, 26 as a prophecy of Christ's first coming - See list of other Non-Christological Interpreters) identifies the "He" as Antiochus Epiphanes. Montgomery feels that this prophecy was fulfilled in the second century before Christ noting how apostate Jews cooperated with Antiochus (see 1Mac 1:11, 12,13, 14, 15). (4) A WEEK: The pronoun He has even been interpreted as a week by some who take he as neuter (not masculine), but such an interpretation of makes absolutely no sense in context. It does emphasize how far some commentators are willing to go in an attempt to "jettison" a literal, futuristic interpretation. In summary, even applying the elementary grammatical rule of examination of the context for the nearest antecedent noun ("prince" in Da 9:26), there is little question that the pronoun He in Da 9:27 is the future Antichrist, the evil end times anti-Semitic leader who is known by many names in Scripture (see table). And as you review the list of the names of the Antichrist, remember that in Scripture one's name speaks of one's character. For the complete article: http://www.preceptaustin.org/daniel_927.htm Quasar93

<SNIP> Quasar93 Diaste quoted you in a topic: Skeleton Rapture Crew 5 minutes ago

You would serve yourself well, to review the last post I addressed to you pertaining to the Scriptures that PROVE the pre-trib rapture pf the Church that destroy your preconceived views that contradict them. Let the Holy Spirit teach you and kick the errors you hold to, out. Quasar93

Once again you shoot yourself in the foot, because you fail to understand who is being addressed in prophecy nor when the prophecies were made. You said "you don't care," making you unteachable to the truth of Scriptural eschatology. Jesus ministry in His first advent, was EXCLUSIVELY to Israel. The Church DID NOT exist then, because the Holy Spirit had not yet arrived, according to Jn.7:39. until at Pentecost, ten days after Jesus ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3. You allude to apostasia, the Greek term that has several meanings: One of them is DEPARTURE, which is the one clearly used by Paul, in the 2 Thes.2_1-8 text. The other one is the root word for the English word, apostasy, or falling away, obviously having nothing whatever to do with what Paul was talking about in that passage. You also try to tie Mt.24 together with 2 Thess.2 which are two very separate events events 7 years apart. That culminate in Mt.24:30, with Jesus return in His second coming WITH HIS CHURCH He CAUGHT UP to meet Him in the air, 7 years before, according to 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. Confirming Rev.19:14 and Zech.14:4-5. You also permeate your views with opinion that is non-Scriptural and way off the mark, from what the Scriptures I posted in my previous post clearly reveal, refuting you. Give it up, you have no viable interpretation of eschatology that meets the intended proper interpretation it is revealing. Quasar93

The above views are thoroughly refuted in the following Scriptural facts from which there are no options: The original written text of 2 Thess.2:3 by the Apostle Paul. in the 1st century; to the Septuagint; to Jerome, who translated it into the Latin Vulgate, in the 4th century: through the first seven English translated Bibles, into the 17th century: Was written as follows: 2 Thess.2:3 "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the DEPARTURE occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction." VERSE 3 REINFORCED BY VERSE 7: 2 Thess.2:7 "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one [The One Body of Christ, His Church] who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way." THE CHURCH DEPARTS IN VERSE 3, AND IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY, IN VERSE 7 2 Thess.2:1-8: The precise timing of the rapture of the Church: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to Him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the Day of the Lord [The 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation of Dan.9:27] has already come." 2 Thes.2:1-2. Which is a direct reference to 1 Thes.4:17 and the theme of Paul's entire pre-trib rapture message in 2 Thes.2:1-8. When we will be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. [Parenthetics mine]. As the above Scriptures clearly reveal. the DEPARTURE of the Church will occur BEFORE the man of lawlessness, the Antichrist, who triggers the Day of the Lord. in Dan.9:27, takes place. The "Day of the Lord" Paul refers to in vs 2, alludes to Dan.9:27, when God will intervene into the affairs of man for the last time, culminating in the second coming of Jesus to the earth. In that passage of Scripture, the Day of the Lord is triggered by the "he" who "confirms a covenant [An agreement] for one Week" [The Day of the Lord/ 70th and final Week/seven year tribulation], who is the antichrist. The second, and same "he," who stops Israel from the offerings and sacrificing in the temple of God, and the third, and same "he," who breaks his covenant in the middle of the Week [After 3.5 of the 7 year total], and sets up the abomination of desolation Jesus referred to in Mt.24:15, in His Olivet Discourse, about the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the age. In verse 3: "Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that Day [The Day of the Lord, the 70th and final Week, the seven year tribulation] will not come, until the "apostasia" [Greek term in which the original translation was "to depart," or "departure," meaning, the rapture of the Church] occurs and the man of lawlessness [The antichrist, and all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27] is revealed [Who triggers the Day of the Lord/ the 70th and final Week/ the seven year tribulation], the man doomed to destruction." Which reveals the "apostasia" [Departure] will take place before the antichrist is revealed, who triggers the 70th Week/seven year tribulation. Confirmed in verses 7 and 8 below. Translation History of apostasia and discessio: By Thomas Ice, PhD. The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either " departure" or " departing." They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608) . This supports the notion that the word truly means " departure." In fact, Jerome' s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of 325 A.D. renders apostasia with the " word discessio, meaning ' departure.' Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of "departure" in 1611 A.D.? [It is more than likely due to overzealous RCC scribes who altered the original wording of vs 3. to accommodate their teachings of Amillenialism, which rejects both the pre-trib rapture of the Church as well as Jesus Millennial reign her on earth]. Theodore Beza, the Swiss reformer was the first to transliterate apostasia and create a new word, rather than translate it as others had done. The translators of the King James Version were the first to introduce the new rendering of apostasia as " falling away." Most English translators have followed the KJV and Beza in departing from translating apostasia as " departure." No reason was ever given. "He [The Antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." Vs 4. [The abomination of desolation, confirming Dan.9:27 and Mt.24:15]. See also 2 Thes.2:4. The rapture of the Church and verse 3 confirmed: In verse 7: "For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so until he [The saints - Church] is taken out of the way." The "he" who will be taken out of the way, is the one body of Christ, who bear the Holy Spirit within each of us [Eph.1:13-14], the Church of Jesus Christ. The very same as those who will participate in the "apostasia," the "departure," [the rapture] of the Church, in vs 3. Immediately following that: In verse 8: "And then the lawless one [The antichrist] will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming." Vs 8. [See Rev.19:17-21]. The Antichrist is found in all three of the "he's" in Dan. 9:27, confirmed by Jesus in Mt.24:15; Mk.13:14 and by Paul, in 2 Thes.2:3, 4 and 8. From the above Scriptural facts, there can be only one proper interpretation for the timing of the rapture of the Church, which will be immediately preceding the 70th and final/7 year tribulation, triggered by the antichrist, all three of the "he's" in Dan.9:27. Seen also as the first of the four horsemen of the apocalypse, riding the white horse, in the first of the seven seals, in Rev.6:2. There is no "pre-wrath" or post-trib rapture taught in the Scriptures. Other verses pertaining to the rapture of the Church: 1 Thes.1:10; 1 Thes.5:9; Rev.3:10 and Rev.4:1-2. Of the saints [Church] returning with Christ from their marriage in heaven, in Rev.19:7, 8 and 14; Jude 14 and Zech.14:4-5! The pre-trib rapture of the Church views posted above fully endorsed by the following esteemed men of God from every Christian teaching: 1. Frank L. Gaebelein, A.M., Litt.D., Headmaster Emiritus, The Stoney Brook School; 2. William Culbertson, D.D., L.L.D., President, Moody Bible Institute; 3. Charles L. Feinberg, ThD., PhD., Dean, Talbot Theological Seminary; 4. Allan A. Mac Rae, A.M., PhD., President, Biblical School of Theology; 5. Clarence E. Mason, Jr., Th.M., D.D., Dean, Philadelphia College of Bible; 6. Alva J. Mc Clain, Th.M., D.D., President Emeritus, Grace Theological Seminary; 7. Wilbur M. Smith, D.D., Editor, Peloubet's Select Notes; 8. John F. Walvoord, A.M., Th.D., President, Dallas Theological Seminary; 9. C.I. Scofield, D.D., Editor, Scofield Bible; 10. Editorial Committee Chairman, J. E. Schuyler English, Litt.D. Chuck Missler, Koinonia House, Charles Stanley, Baptist minister, Zola Levitt, Levitt's Ministries, Miles Weiss, Zola Levitt's Ministries, Moishe Rosen, Jew's For Jesus Org., David Bickner, Jew's For Jesus Org., Mitch Glaser, His Chosen People Minisries Dwight Pentecost, Dean at Dallas Theological Seminary, Harold Wilmington, Dean at Liberty Seminary, Arno Froese, Editor and CEO of Midnight Call Ministries, Thomas Ice, PhD., Author, Jack Van Impe, TV Ministry, Tim Le Haye, Author, Jerry Fallwell, Baptist minister, Billie Graham, TV ministry, Franklin Graham, TV ministry, Dr. Ron Carlson, Dr. Wilfred Hahn, Dave Hunt, Ed Decker and Dr. Norbert Lieth. Quasar93

One of the most misunderstood and misinterpreted time periods to be found in scripture is the time, times and half a time which is mentioned in Daniel and Revelation: Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished. Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. The word time in this context refers to a period of a year. In the story of King Nebuchadnezzar, because of his pride, he went crazy for seven years and ate grass as an ox- Dan 4:32 And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will. So on a literal level, time, times and half a time means time (1 year), times (2 years) and half a time (1/2 year) or 3 1/2 years. Most people who study Bible prophecy stop at this point and accept the 3 1/2 years only at face value. The period that this is generally attributed to by most people, is the last half of the 70th week of Daniel and the reign of the AntiChrist, which is proposed to be fulfilled at some time in the future. A Day Equals One Year The 70 week prophecy of Daniel 9:24, however, establishes a principle related to prophetic time that few completely understand. Virtually everyone acknowledges that the 70 weeks are not literally 70 weeks, but rather 70 weeks of years, or 490 years. The principle is that in Bible prophecy, you must substitute a period of a year in place of a day. This is the day=year principle. This equation is clearly established in scripture- Num 14:34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise. In this verse, a relationship between day and year is clear, each day will equate to a literal year. For the forty days that Israel spied in Canaan in unbelief, they would be punished by wandering forty years in the desert. Ezek 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. Here again, the equation is stated quite openly, a prophetic day represents a literal year. So to return to the 70 weeks of Daniel, you must first determine the number of days represented. Seventy weeks is 70 x 7 or 490 days, which will then equate to a literal 490 years in the fulfillment of the prophecy. The Lunar Calendar So now to apply this formula to the 3 1/2 times we must first establish just exactly how many days this represents. The Jews did not use a solar calendar as we do today, they used instead a lunar calendar, as indicated in Psalms- Psa 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down. The length of the lunar month can be determined from Genesis- Gen 7:11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. Gen 7:24 And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days. Gen 8:4 And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. Note that the there were exactly 5 months from the point where the flood began and the ark came to rest on Ararat, and that this was a period of 150 days. This demonstrates that the lunar calendar set forth in the Bible has a 30 day month, therefore the year is counted as 360 days. (This 360 day lunar year also accounts for the reason that there are 360 degrees in the compass). For the rest of the article go to: http://biblelight.net/times.htm Quasar93

Hi sis, It is the final 3.5 years of the tribulation, called the Great Tribulation, consisting of the wrath of God. Which begins about Rev.8, with the beginning of the seven trumpet judgments. Quasar93

In all intelligent discussions of end-time events and the coming snatching away of believers (the rapture), the student of Bible prophecy faces the central question of : What is meant by the term, the Day of the Lord? This article is meant as an introductory discourse on that topic, to view the Day of the Lord from all sides and arrive at a conclusion based solely on the evidence presented in the Word of God, the Bible. Many have proposed that the Day of the Lord is the entire 70th week of Daniel or the final 7 years until Shiloh (the Messiah) comes to establish the kingdom of God on the earth. Others have posited that the Day of the Lord is the millennial period or reign of the Messiah in Jerusalem. Outstanding teachers such as Hal Lindsey, have stated that although they believe that the Day of the Lord is the 7 year period, there is ample evidence that it is something else, and thus he concludes that they don't yet have sufficient understanding from God to know exactly the full meaning of the term. Finally, there are other noted teachers like Marvin Rosenthal, Robert Van Kampen and this author who have spent years studying the subject and believe that the Bible does show clearly that the Day of the Lord is a specified period of time within the 7 year end-times period, called the Wrath of God. Let us examine the evidence. The Day of the Lord is tied together with the changing of believers in the rapture in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 to 5:1-10. Notice that those alive when Christ comes (4:13-18) shall be changed instantly into their immortal bodies when they are caught up to the clouds to meet the Lord in the air (also 1 Corinthians 15:51-55). The text goes on in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-10, to say that believers are not to worry that the Day of the Lord has come like a thief and overtaken us, because believers are not in darkness, that the Day of the Lord should come upon us; and goes on to say that, "God has not destined us for wrath in the Day of the Lord, but for salvation." Is the Day of the Lord the time of the wrath of God on the earth? It certainly is clear in Zephaniah 1:14-15 Near is the great Day of the Lord, near and coming quickly; listen, the Day of the Lord! In it the warrior cries out bitterly. A day of wrath is that day, a day of trouble and distress, a day of destruction and desolation, a day of darkness and gloom, a day of clouds and thick darkness, a day of trumpet and battle cry .... Zephaniah 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to deliver them on the Day of the Lord's wrath; and all the earth will be devoured in the fire of His jealousy, for He will make a complete end, indeed a terrifying one, of all the inhabitants of the earth. The text from Zephaniah verifies that our understanding from 1 Thessalonians 4:13 to 5:10 is correct, namely, that the Day of the Lord is the period of God's wrath against the people of the earth. The text in Zephaniah disproves that the Day of the Lord is the millennium, since the millennial reign of Shiloh, the Messiah, will be a time of peace and prosperity for all the people of the earth, and the Zephaniah text states that the Day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath. Also note, that nothing in our study up until now prevents the pre-trib view from being correct, since the rapture precedes the time of wrath. However, is the Day of the Lord the entire 7 year period? Let's take a look at another rapture text in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4, where the Epistle was written again to warn the church not to believe that the Day of the Lord had come. Verse 1 states that the topic is the rapture or gathering of believers to Jesus at His coming. Verse 2 warns them not to be disturbed or deceived that the Day of the Lord had come. Verse 3 states, "Let no one deceive you for it (the Day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness is revealed." Verse 4 states that, "the man of lawlessness will be revealed by taking his seat in the Temple of God in Jerusalem and displaying himself as being God" (the abomination of desolation). 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him, that you may not be quickly shaken or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the Day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Note that now we are getting further understanding with regards to the Day of the Lord. In both 1st and 2nd Thessalonians, the church is told specifically that the snatching away of the church in the rapture is before the Day of the Lord begins. Additionally, in 2 Thessalonians, we observe that two signs must take place before the Day of the Lord begins; the apostasy or falling away, and the revealing of the antichrist in the abomination of desolation in the Temple in Jerusalem. We also have that piece of the puzzle from Zephaniah which states that the Day of the Lord is the time of God's wrath. Therefore, it is absolutely impossible according to the Word of God for the Day of the Lord to be the entire 7 year period, since it cannot begin, and we are warned not to be deceived about it beginning, until after the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 year period. Those who are teaching that the Day of the Lord is the entire 7 year period are wrong! We also know that the Day of the Lord cannot be the millennium, because that period is not the time of wrath, but the time when God spreads the tabernacle of peace over the earth and spears are beaten into plowshares and swords into pruning hooks. When does the Day of the Lord begin and are there any signs? In the book of Joel, which is about the Great Tribulation period when the sacrifices and grain offerings are stopped in the Temple, we have the answer. Joel 2:31 states: The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and awesome Day of the Lord comes. The same statement reversed, is in Joel 3:14-15 For the Day of the Lord is near in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon grow dark, and the stars lose their brightness. What is this sign that the sun is turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the Day of the Lord comes? It is clearly enunciated in Revelation 6 as the 6th seal signs. Rev 6:12-13 And I looked when He broke the 6th seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood; and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. So the sign that the Day of the Lord is to begin, is after the abomination of desolation in the middle of the 7 year period, and after the 6th seal signs when the sun becomes black and the moon like blood. But is that the time when the wrath of God begins as we concluded earlier? Yes it is. Take a look a few verses down in Revelation 6:16-17 ...and they said to the mountains and to the rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the presence of Him who sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb; for the great day of their wrath has come; and who is able to stand?" The obvious conclusion of those who accept the Bible as the Word of God is that the Day of the Lord starts in the latter half of the 7 year period, after the abomination of desolation; and that the Day of the Lord starts after an end-times apostasy. Also, the Day of the Lord starts after the 6th seal signs of the sun being turned into blackness and the moon into blood; and the Day of the Lord is the period of the wrath of God. These conclusions are incontrovertible, as long as you accept the Bible as truth. Therefore, all those teachings by others mentioned about the Day of the Lord, are in error, except as in agreement with our conclusions reached here. OK you say, but if the Day of the Lord is the period of God's wrath that begins at the 6th seal signs, what do you call the period prior to the Day of the Lord? Good question. The first half of the 7 year period is shown to be called the Tribulation period in Matthew 24, while the 2nd half of the 7 year period up to the 6th seal signs is called in Matthew 24, the Great Tribulation. The Tribulation and Great Tribulation periods are the time of the wrath of man, where nations and governments will persecute the people. A time when Babylon the Great headed by the antichrist will gain control over the economy of the earth. Again, the Tribulation and Great Tribulation problems are caused by man against man and as a consequence of the actions of people, it is not the unique time of punishment from God called the wrath of God. These results lead to many other conclusions. For instance, if the wrath of God starts after the 6th seal signs of the sun becoming black and the moon like blood, then the follow-on events called the 7 trumpet judgments and the 7 bowl judgments are the judgments of God. They are the means that He uses to pour out His wrath on the earth. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to recognize that if the 7th seal were the wrath of God, then the 7 seals would be called the seal judgments (which they are not). by Roy A. Reinhold Source{ http://ad2004.com/prophecytruths/Articles/Prophecy/DayofLord.htm Quasar93

As you can see, your assessment is exactly what I have been posting all along. It would be delightful to stop arguing with people who are unable to concede the scriptural facts I post about the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church that refutes their false views. Quasar93

The chronological order of end time events: 1. The very next prophetic event to take place will be the rapture of the Church, consisting of everyone who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord, regardless of denomination, or no denomination at all, as taught by both Jesus as well as the apostle Paul. In Jn.14:2-4, 28; 1 Thes.4:13-18; 2 Thes.2:1-8; Rev.3:10 and 4:1-2. All those who died in Christ, to all those who are still alive at His coming in the clouds of the sky, for His Church, where we will all meet Jesus, from where He will take us to our Father in heaven, as He promised us in Jn.14:2-4 and 28. 2. The rapture of the Christian Church of Jesus Christ preceeds the revealing of the man of lawlessness/beast/antichrist, according to 2 Thes.2:3-4 and 7-8. Which then immediately sets off the seven years of tribulation, as recorded in Mt.24:4-31, Jesus amplification of Dan.9:27. Where the person who is all three of the "he's" in that verse, and the rider of the white horse in Rev.6:2, is revealed. All of whom are the antichrist. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70th Week of Dan.9:27 will begin. 3. The tribulation is revealed in Jer.30:4-7, referred to as "Jacob's Trouble," and in Dan.9:27, the 70th and final week of God's decree upon the destiny of Israel. In God's revelation to the prophet Daniel, through the angel Gabriel, the 70 "Weeks" [7 years each] of years He has decreed upon the entire destiny of Israel. From the end of their 70 year exile, through the coming seven year tribulation. The person who will set it of is the antichrist, the "he" who will establish a seven year covenant/agreement with them. Dan.9:27. Jesus amplified and confirmed Daniel's 70th and final "Week," consisting of the abomination that causes desolation, in Mt.24:15 and 21, and in the counterparts of Mk.13 and in Lk.21. 4. The fig trees have sprouted leaves, we can see for ourselves and know that summer is near. Lk.21:29. Which began with the new nation of Israel, when it was reestablished on May 14, 1948. 5. The Christian Church of Jesus Christ is called up into heaven, symbolically illustrated by the apostle John in Rev.4:1-2, confirming 2 Thes.2:3 and 7-8. As prophecied in Jn.14:2-4, 28 and 1 Thes.4:16-17, while Israel and all non-believers will go through the seven year tribulation. The Church is seen again at their marriage of the Lamb [Jesus Christ] to His Bride [The Church] in heaven, recorded in Rev.19:7-9, while the tribulation is taking place on earth. 6. Jesus will return, seven ears later, with His Church, following Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, which stands for the righteous acts of the saints [Verse 8 NIV]. In His Second Coming to the earth, with His angels, in His armies from heaven, in Zech.14:4-5, Mt.24:31, Jude 14, and Rev.19:14. 7. Jesus will fight the battle of Armageddon, with His armies from heaven and end it, recorded in Rev.19:11-21. And save the remnant of Israel, who then recognize Him as their Messiah, recorded in Zech.12:10, and "all Israel will be saved," recorded in Rom.11:26... 8. The antichrist and the false prophet will be thrown into the lake of fire, and the armies of the ten horns [nations] are destroyed. Rev19:17-21. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold [Israel and His Church] and one Shepherd. It is at this stage of end times chronology the 70 Weeks prophecy in Dan.9:27 will end. 9..Satan is caught and thrown into the Abyss for the same 1,000 years that Jesus will reign, in His kingdom here on the earth. Rev.20:6, confirming Mt.6:9-13; Zech.6:12-13, described in Ez.40-47; Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. 10. The first resurrection takes place which consists of all those brought to the Lord during the tribulation by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists. They will be martyred during the tribulation, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them. Those who are brought to Christ by the 144,000 Israelite evangelists, in the absence of the departed Church during the tribulation, do not belong to the Christian Church [who will be raptured before the seven year tribulation begins, as addressed above]. They will be made priests of God and of Christ, and rule with Him for 1,000 years, after their resurrection, according to Rev.20:4 and 6. They will be beheaded and pay with their lives for their testimony of Jesus, by the two beasts, the antichrist, the false prophet and the ten horns [nations] allied to them.. 11. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ will consist of the one body of Christ, His Church, all those who survived the tribulation, besides the resurrected martyrs, and the remnant of Israel. In numbers alone, from an estimated original 7 billion people, there will only be 2.3 billion remaining , of those who had to go through the tribulation, recorded in Zech.13:8. Life expectancy will be greatly increased. Isa.65:20 and 11:6-9. 12. Jesus 1,000 year kingdom will begin at this point, according to Rev.20:6, here on the earth, on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, confirming Acts 1:6; 2:29-30 and 15:16. At the same time the 1,000 years Satan will be in the Abyss, according to Rev.20:1-3. Jesus prophecy in Jn.10:16 will then be fulfilled, when there will be one fold, Israel and the Church, with one Shepherd. When Jesus Millennial kingdom has ended, 1,000 years later, at the Great White Throne judgment, recorded in Rev.20:11-15. Satan will be released and go out to deceive the people and nations again in his last rebellion against God and gather a huge army who come against God's people, surrounding Jerusalem. But God will send fire and sulfur down from heaven, as He did at Sodom and Gomorrah, destroying them all, and throwing Satan into the lake of fire, forever, in Rev.20:7-10. 13. The second resurrection takes place according to Rev.20:5, that consists of all those who will be saved during the Millennial reign of Jesus here on the earth, as well as the Godless and wicked, at the Great White Throne Judgment, set up to judge them, right here on earth. The sea, death and Hades all give up their dead and will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Meaning, that all who were in the 'temporal holding tanks' of Sheol, Hades and Hell will be removed to face judgment, along with death itself, disposed of forever. For all those who participate in the second resurrection, if their name is not found in the book of life, will be thrown into the lake of fire forever. Rev.20:11-15, and Dan.12:2 and Mt.25:46 will be fulfilled. 14. The old heaven and earth will pass away, recorded in Rev.21:1 [Destroyed by fire according to 2 Pet.3:7] and God will provide an all new heaven and earth, and the new eternal city of Jerusalem will descend from heaven, 1,500 miles long and as wide as it is long and as high as it is wide, Rev.21:1-16. 15. The rest of chapters 21 and 22 allude to a description of the coming eternal city and life of all believers who will be with the Lord forever. Quasar Last edited by quasar.deeperwalk on 13 Dec 2016 10:42, edited 3 times in total.

Negative! Jesus Olivet Discourse in Mt.24, and counter gospels of Mark 13 and Luke 21 are EXCLUSIVELY to Israel, that He made abundantly clear in Mt.15:24 and in 10:5-6.. The Church DID NOT exist them, because the Holy Spirit had not come yet, according to Jn.7:39, until at Pentecost, tem days after Jesus had ascended into heaven, according to Acts 1:9 and 2:1-3. Your attempt to take the teachings of Paul, in Thess.4:13-18 to the Church, and attach it to Jesus Olivet Discourse, addressed to Israel, is completely exegetical error! You deliberately reject the Scriptures that refute what you attempt to interpret them as saying. in the following: Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options! The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts: 1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11. 2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!. 3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. 4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1. Reviews the Scriptural chronological order of end time events in the following post, to correct the record. Quasar93

Try reading what you quoted me again, that refute you. Yes, Jesus only comes to the earth one more time, WITH HIS CHURCH He CAUGHT UP to meet Him in the sky seven years before, as the Scriptures have documented below: Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options! The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts: 1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11. 2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!. 3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. 4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1. Quasar93

Let me see your argument with Scriptural proof supporting your "own conclusions," to the following documentation of the pre-trib rapture of the Church you deny and have so far done nothing but misinterpret Scripture you use. And DO NOT do so by editing what I have posted with your reply! I will tell you now, there is no way you can deny the teachings of Jesus and Paul's teachings on the coming pre-trib rapture of the Church, whom you are calling liars for doing so. The following refute your views: Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options! The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts: 1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11. 2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!. 3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. 4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1. Quasar93 HOW DO i STOP THESE ATTATCHMENTS FROM BEING CONTINUALLY OPOSTD?

Negative. The Scriptures clearly define the end times sequence of events as documented in the following: Scriptural proof for the pre-trib rapture of the Church The Scriptures are crystal clear where Jesus will meet His Church, in 1 Thess.4:17: "After that, we who are still alive and are left, WILL BE CAUGHT UP TOGETHER with them in the clouds TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR. And so we will be with the Lord forever." In the FIRST of His TWO comings, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16, yet to take place, confirming Jn.14:2-3, 28! From where the Church is seen in heaven BEFORE the tribulation begins, in Rev.4:1-2. Where Jesus used John to symbolically represent the Church. Confirming 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8! Where the Church is seen in heaven later, at the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus. While the tribulation is taking place on earth, recorded in Rev.19:7-8. From where Jesus will return to the earth in the SECOND, of His TWO comings, yet to take place, WITH HIS CHURCH, riding white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean, in His armies from heaven, recorded in 19:14, confirming Zech.14:4-5 and Acts 1:6; 1:11; 2:29-30 and 15:16! From which the above Scriptures leave no other options! The difference between the pre-trib rapture of the Church, as delineated above, and the SECOND coming of Jesus are the following facts: 1. Jesus returns to the earth in His second coming, recorded in Zech.14:4-5 and in Acts 1:11. 2. No one meets Jesus in the sky when He returns in His second coming, recorded in Rev.19:14, as they will when He returns for the first time, recorded in 1 Thess.4:16!. 3. Jesus will return from the marriage of the Bride/Church to the Lamb/Jesus, in heaven, in His second coming, to the earth, with His Church, recorded in Rev.19:14, He came for in His first coming, in the clouds of the sky, seven years before, recorded in Jn.14:2-3, 28, 1 Thess.4:16-17 and 2 Thess.2:3 and 7-8. 4. No one returns to the present heaven at Jesus second coming to the earth, because He has come to establish His 1,000 year reign on the throne of David, in the restored kingdom of Israel, as recorded in Acts 1:6; 2:29-30; 15:16; Zech.6:12-13 described in Ez.40-47 and Rev.20:6. In addition to the present heaven and earth being destroyed and will pass away, as recorded in 2 Pet.3:7 and in Rev.21:1. Quasar93

I am not judging you! But rather that which is unsupported opinion. For you to identify your qualifications to assume authority to teach the Bible! Quasar93

What, may I ask is your point? You have quoted and addressed me personally. FYI, O am not a "Junior Member," that has recently been giben me as a title. I am no Junior member of anything, but rather as a 94 year old WWII Vet, more than likely the Senior Member of you all. In addition to having been a student of the Bible over the past 80 years, I have held memberships in the Presbyterian; Brethren: Methodist, Lutheran and Baptist Churches, depending on where I was living at the time. I have never had any affiliation with the RCC at any time in my entire life. I have spent the better part of 20 years on Christian discussion forums as well s being the founder of my own. This was in th post just above yours, that had been quoted: >>> FYI, I am a qualified Bible teacher I earned from three different Bible Seminaries. With 80 years of Bible study together with the better part of 20 years of participation on Christian discussion forums, together with my own. And where, may I ask, did you earn your qualifications to teach the Bible? <<< Quasar93

Posting my qualifications to teach the Bible was to inform you the contents of what I post are in exegetical and in proper hermeneutics that harmonize with the intended interpretation of the prophetic Scriptures. Which do not come from opinionated assumptions propagated by those who think themselves qualified to teach the Bible. You have not responded to my question as to where you obtained your qualifications to teach the Bible,as yet. Response to you here, is because of your interest in denigrating me, rather than on the subject of the thread. Quasar93