fixerupper

Mathew 24 has to do with the generation of people who witness the passing of the events Jesus spoke about. It's Jesus' response to the disciples question, 1. When will these things be. (not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.) 2. What will be the sign of thy coming. Jesus gave them dozens of signs in the chapter. He returns for every believer, not jus Israel NOT ONE Preterist has ever been able to explain how those thing have ever passed in 70 AD. And not one pretribulationist has ever proven it's all about Israel....without a whole lot of distorted fabrications. 3. What will be the sign of the end of the world. (consummation of the age) The chapter isn't specific to israel.

As of now, you're just saying so. Show me how you arrive at the conclusion that the false prophet will deceive the entire world. Like I said, Why would the prophecy of “seventy weeks indicate anything but 70 sequential weeks? Why would this biblical time period start, then stop at what the experts call a 'gap,' and then start up again some 2000 years later? If that's the case then the week following the 69th week really isn't the 70th week since there's a 2000 year gap! The passage doesn't mention anything about tribulation, an anti-Christ, or the rebuilding of a temple, or animal sacrifices. The passage in verse 25 and 26 speak about the Messiah. So grammatically speaking it makes no sense that verse 27 would suddenly completely change into speaking about the anti-Christ. The Messiah being “cut off" is referring to Christ’s death. It does? Where??? 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? If post trib is a fabrication, I wonder what Jesus thinks of you perverting his words... Immediately after the tribulation of those days ...And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:..And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

A beast with 7 heads and ten horns is just a bit different than a horse and rider. Horses and riders have been around for millenia. You're trying to compare something obviously symbolic to something tangible and usually literal. There are ways of determining whether a word is used literally or figuratively. But I've never know a pretribulationist to care much about good hermeneutics. These riders are literal people, the horses are symbolic of swiftness, and 'white' in Rev.6:2 is symbolic of a false purity. The riders are people, that's why we call them the four horseMEN. Personal pronouns are used to identify them. Most of the commentators you've quoted say Jesus Christ is the rider of the white horse in Revelation 6:2. The reason why people have gotten away from saying Jesus Christ is the rider in Rev. 6:2 is because that rider wears A DIFFERENT CROWN THAN JESUS CHRIST DOES IN REV. 19. SO LET ME RE-SPOON FEED THIS... CROWN IN 6:2 is 'stephanos' a victors crown and signifies triumph and authority. It's actually a "wreath or garland." Similar to a turban which developed from crowns anyway. The many CROWNS Christ wears in Rev. 19:12 are "DIADEMS." That represents 'universal dominion.' Look at what Vines says about this... Is never used as stephanos is, it is always the symbol of kingly or imperial dignity, and is translated "diadem" instead of "crown" in the RV... This horseman goes "out conquering and to conquer." This is two different tenses of the same verb nikao, "conquer," "subdue," "overcome," "prevail," "get the victory." I'm not sure that the word SUBDUE is ever used to describe the gospel being spread. One author said, _________________________________________________________________________ "John is telling us that the horseman begins and continues to conquer, and he will certainly conquer or will ultimately conquer (see A.T. Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament on this verse). The implication is that his entire purpose is to conquer, to dominate, to subjugate the peoples of the earth. The white horse and its rider represent religious deception." Overall, the white horse and its rider are vivid representations of a powerful, aggressive, victorious force running unrestrained over mankind. Like a knight in armor or a soldier in full dress uniform, the first horseman appears to the eye as glorious and noble, but its intent is to kill, destroy, and subdue its enemies. Its white façade is deceptive, concealing a deadly, unholy purpose." ___________________________________________________________________________ Let's see. The word 'conque'r is used extensively in the Koran. The rider of the second seal has a large literal sword. I'm convinced that the quote "conquering and to conquer" reflects Islam's conquest of domination by abomination, conquest of the world through demographics and terrorism. This is the "STRUGGLE" OF HOLY WAR." This is the logo of the Muslim Brotherhood. Islam often uses crossed swords as their logos. You've heard Muslim's speak of "the sword of Allah." CROSSED SWORDS SIGNIFY CONQUEST IN ISLAM. The Bow... This is a strang thing this word TOXON. The word is only used ONCE in the New Testament. If the rider were said to be going into battle or hunting, we could assume this is a weapon even if no arrows are mentioned. The bow in this passage may not be a weapon at all. It actually should be translated as 'bough' which it is in some manuscripts. τόξον tóxon, tox'-on; from the base of G5088; a bow (apparently as the simplest fabric):—bow. A bow, the weapon, is sometimes figurativly associated with evil, NOT THE GOSPEL! So you have a lot working against you so far. You refuse to admit there's a rider. And you believe the opinion of others. The only reason you're giving me for believing the first seal is the gospel is because other people believe it. And then you have the nerve to say by praying and meditating on it the holy spirit enlightens you into truth. It's OK the read commentaries, but that's just anothers opinion. You have to look at WHY they believe what they do. I do my best to show people WHY I believe WHAT I believe. To say this Whitehorse and rider of the first seal is the gospel makes the four horsemen a message of 'incoherent continuity.' Why would war, famine, and pestilence follow the gospel? You're mentors believe the rider is Christ, that's you're holy spirit. Why would Christ be the opening seal to a bunch of bad guys and bad stuff? That's the problem. You're letting them do your thinking for you. Most of those guys gave it their best shot. I don't believe them on this issue. The first seal is HOLY WAR." There are only two possible candidates for rider of this horse...Muhammad or Bin Laden. On one CNN special they said, "Osama bin laden has been crowned as the worldwide symbol of Holy War"!

Really good critical explanation of the text Lamad. Now that's deep Lamad..."you think these horses and riders represent other things." What do you mean, "If indeed you need a rider?!!" THERE IS A RIDER! And there's a horse too! The horse represents something, and the rider does too! The word HE is used twice, and Him used once...and that represents the church and the gospel??? With a hermeneutic like that, who needs truth!

The Holy Spirit isn't the only part of good interpretation. You can pray all you want but if your efforts are amiss, you'll never find truth. Everybody likes to say they have truth because they are enlightened by the holy spirit. Having the holy Spirit doesn't mean you just read and pray and read commentaries, and mediate and then bang, you have truth. There is a method to good exegesis. But you typically disregard good exegesis since you can't even accept the definition of the word ELECT Jesus used in Mathew 24 about the gathering happening AFTER THE TRIBULATION! Instead you resort to using extensive fabrications, create two raptures and two returns, change the definition of the Day of the Lord, the last trump, etc.

So who is the HE that sits upon this white horse? And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

Safety means "security from enemies and dangers." People say peace and safety at the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord is when Christ returns to do battle. He removes his own at a time when there is little peace and safety on the planet and He returns to destroy them who destroy the earth. So the Day of the Lord happens is a time harvest and destruction as the Lord returns to do battle.

RM, I'M IMPRESSED. I asked for SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE! That's a good one. The man of sin man doesn't believe in god but calls himself god?

I can probably help, I think. Look at what he bolded... "But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you." ________________________________________________________________________________________ Paul is saying it's NOT necessary for him to tell them the times and season OF... the Lord's descent at the trump of God where the dead rise first and all get caught up into a cloud with Christ. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. They know perfectly for the reasons he described. The resurrection of the dead, the rapture, the second coming, are "the Day of the Lord." and COMES as a thief. Everything happens at the end of tribulation when people are cying for "PEACE AND SAFETY." People wouldn't cry for peace and safety if they were removed from it! So the natural wording of this and all rapture text is that it all takes place at the end of tribulation, the time known as the day of the Lord.

Why is it you just can't give me a brief explanation of... Where you find a global dictator? Where you see the anti-Christ destroying ALL religions? And how one man going to accomplish such a thing?

So why is Jesus riding with a bunch of bad guys when he's the one opening the seals?

What you've described really aren't suppositions. They are the reason for the tribulation. It's kind of like a God ordained purification process. I may be wrong but as of now I don't accept Daniel's 70th week. I say the seals were meant for our benefit and we should recognize them as they open and pass. The opening of a seal is a disclosure of a secret. That's their purpose. They are "authenticated and no longer a secret" when they pass. They aren't something that opened thousands of years ago and progressed up to today. They are complete end-time symbols. SEAL... "literal, a "seal" on a book or roll, combining with the ideas of security and destination those of secrecy and postponement of disclosures," Just so you know... The first seal is HOLY WAR. The second seal is Saddam and Iraq. We're currently in the third seal which is ISIS. The fourth seal is next... And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth. I believe that fourth part of the earth is the Mid-east region. The words "to kill with sword, hunger, death and beast," are literal. I say they are all Islamic because Islam is the only religion capable of bringing this to pass. ISIL has been known to behead children in front of their parents who wouldn't convert. Honor killings are also an abomination. To kill with hunger... Starving people to death by withholding food is a old weapon. Today it's used by Muslims in several countries especially in Northern Africa. To kill with sword, The sword is Islam's favorite weapon and beheading is the preferred method of persecution in the book of Revelation. I've seen some horiffic videos through the Clarion Project. Muslim's cut the heads off of their own family in honor killings why should we be surprised that ISIS is doing it today? Even today there are stadiums full of people watching an honor killing in the Islamic world. To kill with beast... This is killing people by throwing them to wild animals like Daniel was. They will throw people to the lions and dogs and put it on video like they are custom to do. A video of wild animals in an amphitheater type setting will happen once again in our day. "Conquering the infidel" is already a televised Islamic form of 21st century entertainment. Maybe they'll just tie up someone in the middle of the wilderness and let the wild animals go at them. To kill with death... This is no doubt suicide bombings or maybe biological terrorism. Muslim's will sacrifice their own Children in holy war. ISIL has already blown up the baby of a woman who wouldn't convert ia a training video. In the devils religion of Islam, the father is often the one who throws the first stone in the honor killing of his own daughter.

I was mistaken. I know what RT believes and pretty much WHY he believes it. You on the other hand, haven't given the forum ONE reason why you believe what you believe. All you ever do is tell us WHAT you believe. So what I would like to see is how and where you support this scripture... Where do you see a global dictator? Where do you see the anti-Christ destroying ALL religions? And how is one man going to accomplish such a thing?

I have no problems with Catholicism. Whether you like it or not many of them are you're brothers and sisters in Christ. I have more problems with Protestants. I have more respect for Catholics, JW'S, Mormons, and SAD'S than I do you and your Protestant affiliates. Protestant's have done more to hurt the cause of Jesus Christ and you're proof! Protestants have divided into hundreds of different groups and claim they all have the truth, and few of them has anything good to say about others in the faith. So I suppose you're the one I should ask. Where do you find this, "global government and one global religion united by the Pope through the UN?" RM never answered my questions about The EU and Rome. He just rattles off what he believes and NEVER gives me scriptural reasons for it.

I said that because you're taking things that are, or are not, mentioned in the context of one rapture passage, and fabricating things out of it BECAUSE those things 'are or are not' mentioned between in other rapture passages. I said,, "It doesn't matter if there are differences. Those differences don't mean they are two different events. You need to realize that not every author recorded everyting the same way. They're not going to record the events exactly the same or mention the exact same things. It's not that they are different events, just that they are recorded by different people."

Two Head-fakes. I wish I could say "thanks for the detailed reply." What's really ironic is that you say there's going to be a global government and one global religion united by the Pope through the UN. So what happens? The false prophet unites the world's religions and then hates Catholicism and Islam and then destroyes Islam? Give me a break. Babylon the Great is written on the harlot's forehead, that means ISLAM gave birth to to the little harlot's of Islam's jihadist sects. The harlot promisses up to 72 virgins in paradise. Do you truly wonder why so many young Muslim men with their whole lives ahead of them, are willing to blow themselves up? Let me break this down for you. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. Two horns like a lamb? That means two Satanic sects similar to Christianity. Can you see the Islamic crescent moon in the shape of the horns on this, 'lamb?' ..."he speaks like a dragon." The word 'dragon' is defined in Strong's lexicon as, a dragon, a great serpent, a name for Satan. Lucifer, 'THE BRIGHT AND MORNING STAR,' is behind the religion of ISLAM! And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. The word 'LIKE' means...like, similar, resembling. So you can look at this a few ways. It's a religion similar to Christianity, which Islam is a prefect counterfeit of. Ever notice how sweet and soft spoken Muslim clerics are? Some say lambs don't have horns. But some actually do. Ever notice how some lamb horns look like crescent moons? Islam is the most counterfeit religion in the world compared to Christianity. It has a false god named Allah. A false prophet named Muhammad who Muslims believe is, "the prophet like unto Moses." A false returning jesus called, "the Muslim Jesus." A false book called the Koran and the hadith. A false returning messiah. And a false prophetic scenario very similar to Christianity's with 'jesus' also returning only to be the Mahdi's subordinate. Welcome to Babylon the Great! And to think. ISIS believes that Jesus will return to help them defeat the dajjal who is the Islamic antichrist! The zebiba is the mark of the beast. It's a patch of hardened skin that forms on the forehead of fanatical Muslims from repeatedly hitting the mat. A Muslim's forehead hits the mat at least 35 times a day in submission to Allah resulting in over a million prostrations in a lifetime. This could be what we call the mark of the beast as well as having to carry a Koran in your right or "clean" hand. It will not be worldwide but limited to Muslim dominated countries and possibly only within the 10/7 alliance of nations/kings within the Islamic Empire of the beast. That "number of a man" could be Muhammad, the author of the Koran. It has 6,666 verses in it. Islam is planning to create an Islamic world order through global jihad which begins with the conquering of Jerusalem, the city of seven mountains mentioned in Revelation 17. Muslim's are waiting for their messiah, the Mahdi and jesus to return to help convert Christians to Islam AND help them defeat the dajjal or Islamic anti-christ. You do know the Dome of the Rock "sits upon" God's "holy place," Riiiight? You do know John was instructed NOT to measure the outer court because it's in the hands on the 'gentiles' riiight? And you do know that.... Around the octagonal structure of the Dome of the Rock is a long classical Arabic inscription that says that God has no begotten son, thus denying that Jesus is the Son of God. Inscriptions on the octagonal structure of the Dome are anti-Christ. They say... - There is no God but Allah. - God has no son; He begetteth not. - God taketh not unto Himself a son. - God has no associate. - Muhammad is the messenger of God. - Allah will preside on Judgment Day. So what is this... "And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire." This is one sect of Islam burning the other. One caliphate destroying the other. It could be Mecca, Medina, or even Iran gets nuked. I tend to think it is Mecca or Iran. But that could change. Shiite's and some Sunni's are looking for the return of the Mahdi. That's one big argument between the two sects of Islam esp. now that ISIS is around. "WHO is going to welcome the Mahdi when he returns." Mahmoud Ahmidinajead and other Iranian prophetic nut cases believe it's up to them to bring the region into complete chaos in order to hasten the Mahdi's return. YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THE VERSE... The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: It may also be interesting to note that the very sin of Lucifer in this passage as defined by the phrase uttered in his heart; “I will ascend… I will be like the Most High.” The word for ascend or rising in Hebrew is “Alah,” (Strongs Hebrew Greek Ditionary H5927 A primitive root; to ascend, intransitively (be high) or active (mount). And of course its the name used by Muslims for God. Not that that means anything.... Revelation 9 tells us about the Arabs and suicide bombers and how many jihadist there are in the world when the prophecy passes! Revelation 9:16-17 "And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them." That would be 200 million. Verse 17 "And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone:" "And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name." The 'sweet to the taste' but bitter to the belly' LITTLE BOOK of Revelation 10 is all about the Koran. Did I ever tell you about the crescent moon and morning star?

Prophets were a 'position' in the New Testament church and I don't believe there are prophets today. All the prophecies have been given and there's no need for further revelation. Prophets pretty much became obsolete once the church was established. Now that we have the gifts of the spirit, we can prophesy, but that doesn't make one a prophet.

Oldcoot said, Taking an Old Testament word and passage to define a New Testament word is bad hermeneutics. You're completely mistaken. What you're doing is way out of line. First off. You disregard the meaning of the New Testament word, "EKLEKTOS." You can try to fabricate all you want with this word but it means Christians. you need to look how the word is used elsewhere in the New Testament. We know that the 'elect' always refers to Christians in the New Testament. The word elect is the same word as 'chosen' and in every verse I looked at it always referred to Christians and a few times to angels. It's the same word as chosen in the NT. The word elect is 'eklektos' which means... 1) picked out, chosen a) chosen by God, 1) to obtain salvation through Christ a) Christians are called "chosen or elect" of God 2) the Messiah in called "elect", as appointed by God to the most exalted office conceivable 3) choice, select, i.e. the best of its kind or class, excellence preeminent: applied to certain individual Christians https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/Lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1588&t=KJV The word elect, chosen-'eklektos,' is used in the following verses in the NT where it always refers to Christians... whether Jew or gentile! Here are a few examples how the word for 'elect' in Mathew 24 is used elsewhere. 1 Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Titus 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness; Romans 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. Check also... Matthew 20:16, John 13:18, 15:16, Acts 15:22, 15:25, Romans 8:33, 16:13, 1 Corinthians 1:27-28, Ephesians 1:4, Colossians 3:12, James 2:5, 2 Timothy 2:10, Titus 1:1, 1 Peter 1:2, 2:9, 5:13, Revelation 17:14. THE WORD ELECT OR CHOSEN ALWAYS INDICATES CHRISTIANS, JESUS, OR ANGELS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. If God wanted the 'elect' of Mathew 24 to mean Jews r Israel, He would have used a different Greek word. Probably this one... 1445. Hebraios heb-rah'-yos from 1443; a Hebræan (i.e. Hebrew) or Jew:--Hebrew.

You can make Hitler look like a saint too! I think people need to approach these things with an open mind, but sometimes that gets out of control. Believe it or not, and I know it's crazy, but the best possible candidate for anti-Christ is Saddam Hussein. I'll show you why later. Don't jump to conclusions until I show you the biblical evidence for this. It's actually quite compelling.

Since when is the USA associated with Babylon? And the big question is, "how do you arrive at the conclusion that Babylon is the USA? Babylon is Babylon. It's not Rome, Europe, the USA, Catholicism, or anything else! And just which city in the USA is "that great city?" Babylon can only be associated with the region of Babylonia, confusion, and false religion in the NT. So the anti-Christ will be a Muslim, and the USA is the great city of Revelation 14. I bet Obama was your cadidate!

Why don't you step up to the plate and instead of just "saying so" show me how you arrive at that conclusion! There's is no FALSE CHRISTIAN HERESY coming. I know the Church likes to demonize itself, but maybe you guys should do your homework before you condemn your own religion.

People have been saying that for decades. There's no global government or global dictator coming. You tell people the Pope will head up a global religion, but where's the evidence? I've asked people over a dozen times to show the scriptural evidence for this pipe dream. Nobody has ever quoted ONE verse! The UN and the Pope will have NOTHING to do with end-time prophecy. I hope your book is a flop because not one word is true in the above quote. Catholicism isn't the bad guys the Protestant's make them out to be. Islam is. Altar boys aren't flying jet planes into skyscrapers, or blowing themselves up in cafe's and market places, Muslim's are. Many Catholics are true believers and have their rightful place in the body of Christ regardless of what you think. You've been deceived by the many whose footsteps you're following in. There's no global religion coming. What in the world makes people think that all of the world's religions would unite? What makes you think that such a smorgasborg of religion would ever materialize on the planet and actually work out? I know! It's what you've been taught for decades and you just can't break away from it! Show me where this "one world religion" united by the Pope is found in your bible! Show people the verses you 'globalist' use to support it! That's not what Jesus said! Rev. 3: 15-16 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. That too is a pipe dream that began by dispensationalist that people have trouble getting away from. There's no seven year covenant that gets broken in the middle. I as a futurist reject Daniel's 70th week. There's no 7 year covenant. Why would the prophecy of “seventy weeks indicate anything but 70 sequential weeks? Why would this biblical time period of 70 weeks start, then stop at what the experts call a 'gap,' and then start up again some 2000 years later? If that's the case then the week following the 69th week really isn't the 70th week since there's a 2000 year gap! The passage doesn't mention anything about tribulation, an anti-Christ, or the rebuilding of a temple, or animal sacrifices. The passage in verse 25 and 26 speak about the Messiah. So grammatically speaking it makes no sense that verse 27 would suddenly completely change into speaking about the anti-Christ. The Messiah being “cut off" is referring to Christ’s death. I think you're misinterpreting the verse. ALL people would be killed, not just Christians, if it were not FOR THE SAKE OF CHRISTIANS. That's what I call perverting God's Word because in verse 27 the 'parousia' is mentioned...in verse 29.... Immediately after the tribulation of those days... And in verse 30 Jesus says, "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven:" And in verse 31, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds" It's all the same big guy! It all takes place at the end of tribulation. It doesn't matter if somethings are a few days apart. The rapture happens at the second coming. You guys add and complicate this way too much! So please, stop with the fabrications! What you need it a sensible hermeneutic. It's so easy to fabricate without one. It doesn't matter if there are differences. Those differences don't mean there are two different events. You need to realize that not every author recorded everyting the same way. They're not going to record the events exactly the same or mention the exact same things. It's not that they are different events, just that they are recorded by different people. You've been fooled. In the real world, everybody records witnessing the same event somewhat differently. You've missed the clue by adding artificial ingredients! That statement is all bad hermeneutics, and you've created your own stumbling block. "What does it matter if the wrath of God is, or isn't mentioned?" Why fabricate and differenciate between "the second coming" and "the sign of the Son of man/gathering of His elect" when the parousia is mentioned in the text!?" It doesn't give you the right to fabricate anything out of it. How do you come up with this stuff? Mathew 24 is about all the events culminating at the end of the age! What a bunch of green balony! I think you're confusing the gathering with the separation of the sheep and goats. I understand your mode of fabricating things is similar to the way pretribulationist do it. Your hermeneutic amounts to quoting scripture and then expressing your beliefs. On the surface, and to the typical Christian, it looks like good hermeneutics, but it's not. How do you come up with.... "The Pope of Rome working with the UN in establishing a one world government and religion." You've complicated things and all I see is a new and improved version of an old theory with your own added twist and turns.

There's more to cover about the harlot than I thought so I'll give you bits and pieces. The woman and Babylon the Great (mother of Harlots) are being used interchangably with a city. "Jerusalem had already been called: The great city, Sodom and Egypt (Rev11:8). Rev. 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. (Jerusalem) Rev. 17:18 states, "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." This is East Jesusalem. (I think!) Jerusalem is described as a harlot since only Jerusalem had been in a covenant relationship with God. But think about this. If the Saudi Sunni sect of Islam takes East Jerusalem, that means Mecca is running it and the Dome area! If the Shia sect of Iran takes it, that's a bit different but the same Babylon the Great, and it could happen either way. That makes East jerusalem a harlot. Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. (Mecca and/or Medina) Rev. 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. (Mecca and/or Medina) Rev. 17::18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (Jerusalem) Rev. 18:10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come. (Mecca and/or Medina) Rev. 18:16 And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls! (Mecca and/or Medina) Rev. 18:18 And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city! (Mecca and/or Medina) Rev. 18:19 And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas, that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate. (Mecca and/or Medina) Rev.18:21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all. (Mecca and/or Medina) Mecca has ten spires or minarets and seven entrances. Minarets have been described as the "gate from heaven and earth", in Arabic. The Dome of the Rock is at the geographically center of Jerusalem's seven MOUNTAINS. THIS IS THE ONLY PIECE OF GROUND GOD HAS CLAIMED AS HIS OWN IN THE BIBLE, and the reason why John wa instructed NOT to measure the outer court because it is "given over to the gentiles" i.e. occupied by an Islamic mosque. The harlot represents a large false religion, i.e.ISLAM, occupying God's "holy place" the Dome complex in the city of East Jerusalem The headquarteres for Islam's world capital operated from the Dome of the Rock or Al'aqsa mosque. That's the abomination of desolation.

Diaste, I don't have much time this morning but I will reply more later. I'm filling in for a farmer and there's plenty to do. People who have accepted this harlot to be Rome or some kind of worldwide unified religion, don't care about some of the simple things mentioned about the harlot, and they don't care that there's not one verse of end-time prophecy implicating Rome in any way. And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. John is taken by the Spirit into the wilderness which is better translated "the desert," to be shown the judgment of the great whore (Islam). The Desert is where Mecca and Medina reside. Rome doesn't reside in the desert. Islam has also been called "the desert religion." The birthplace of Babylon the Great and the Whore of Babylon is in the desert of Arabia a place called Mecca and Medina, called the Glory of Kedar in the OT. The great whore that 'sitteth on' (occupies) many waters ISN'T a global one world religion. (and the beast isn't a one world government/dictator). It's simply ONE large worldwide religion. The kings of the earth committing fornication with her means countries have allowed this evil religion to flourish in their country, likely for the favor of these countries buying cheap oil. The inhabitants being drunk with the wine of her fornication could mean a few different things. The whore of Babylon represents many things. She represents seven mountains. There are seven mountains around Jerusalem, and Mecca is a city of seven hills. Mecca, the dominate Sunni sect, could, OCCUPY East Jerusalem, turning that city into a harlot as Islam already occupies it in the Dome. This appears to be the place the man of sin authenticaes himself, right in the Dome or Al'aqsa mosque. The harlot who represents Islam and worldwide terrorism also 'occupies the beast' meaning Islam is the dominate religion of the 10/7 alliance of the beast. There are two slihtly different words for 'fornication' in Rev. 17. The word 'sittith' means to occupy. Babylon the Great is, "a large false religion." Mother of harlot's means Islam gave birth to jihadist, etc. etc. Islam, Babylon the Great, mother of jihadist and abominations of the earth. I'll be around tonight.

And you have zero doubt about yours. Now that you see your theory is seriously challenged, you're claiming divine revelation. Happens over and over again.... Divine revelation comes to people who believe they DON'T have this all figured out. God can't enlighten the mind of someone when it's all made up and unwilling to change. The only effort you've put into this is accept the entire debacled theory of pretribulationism. Maybe a quick review of the context would help. But I'm tired of spoonfeeding. Escape: "to flee out of a place" (ek, "out of," and No. 1), is said of the "escape" of prisoners, Act 16:27; of Sceva's sons, "fleeing" from the demoniac, Act 19:16; of Paul's escape from Damascus, 2Cr 11:33; elsewhere with reference to the judgments of God, Luk 21:36; Rom 2:3; Hbr 2:3; 12:25; 1Th 5:3. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.