KiwiChristian

YOUNG EARTH EVIDENCE Astronomical Records. Because of the rarity of solar eclipses at any given location, and because astronomers can date every solar eclipse going back thousands of years, when an ancient tablet or manuscript mentions a solar eclipse, we can accurately date that record, and other events associated with it in other countries. Before 2250 BC, we have no records of any solar eclipse being seen by man. “The earliest Chinese date which can be assigned with any probability is 2250 BC, based on an astronomical reference in the Book of History”. (Ralph Linten, The Tree of Culture (1955), p 520). Writing. The oldest writing is a Sumerian pictograph written on clay tablets dated about 3500 BC. Iron Pot in Coal. Professor W. Rusch has reported an iron pot encased in coal dated by evolutionary standards at 300 million years old. (Creation Research Quarterly (March, 1971) p.201). The pictured affidavit reads as follows: Sulphur Springs, Arkansas, November 27, 1948. While I was working in the Municipal Electric Plant in Thomas, Okla. in 1912, I came upon a solid chunk of coal which was too large to use. I broke it with a sledge hammer. This iron pot fell from the center, leaving the impression or mold of the pot in the piece of coal. Jim Stall (an employee of the company) witnessed the breaking of the coal, and saw the pot fall out. I traced the source of the coal, and found that it came from the Wilburton, Oklahoma Mines. Frank J. Kenwood Sworn to before me, in Sulphur Springs, Arkansas this 27th day of November, 1948. Julia L (?) Metal Bowl. An intricately carved metal bowl was blasted out of solid pudding stone. (Scientific American, June 5, 1852). The Nampa Image is a baked clay figure obtained from a well being bored in 1889 at Nampa, Idaho. It was pumped from rocks 300 feet deep under a “Tertiary” lava sheet (12 million years old.) The problem for evolutionists is how can a man made clay figure 12 million years old (supposedly) have been laid down before man evolved 3 million years ago (supposedly)? Source: American Geologist, F.Wright, 23 (1899), p.267. Pollen in Pre-Cambrian Strata. Pollen from Angiosperm and Gymnosperm trees (woody plants supposedly 260 million years old have been found in Pre Cambrian Hakati shale in the Grand Canyon (supposedly 570 million years old). The problem here for evolutionists is conifer pollen existing 300 million years before it appeared on earth. Some spores are stained with red oxide from surrounding rocks, thus proving that the spores are not from present day contamination. Source: Nature, R. Stainforth, 210 (1966) p.292. Turkmenia. Notice this report in the Sydney Morning Herald, 21 Nov. 1983, “A report from the Soviet news agency, Tass, says that about 1500 tracks made by dinosaurs have been found in Turkmenia – but among those prints are those resembling the footprints of a man. According to Professor Amanniyazov, director of Turkmenia’s Institute of Geology: “If further analysis proves that the prints have been left by anthropoids, the history of mankind will be extended to 150 million, not 5 millionyears.”” Why did Professor Amanniyazov assume dinosaur extinction 150 million years ago as absolutely certainty? Why did he not consider the alternative position of dinosaurs living with man recently? The fact that dinosaur and human footprints have been found in the same rock strata proves that man and dinosaurs lived at the same time. This is a great problem to evolutionists who believe that dinosaurs became extinct 70 million years ago. Evolutionists claim that dinosaurs died out 67 million years before man appeared. These footprints prove that: a) Man and dinosaur lived at the same time, and b) The evolutionary geological column is completely wrong in its dating of rocks. The evidence for these tracks being genuine are: i) The tracks of man and dinosaur are widely distributed from Turkestan to Texas. ii) The tracks are mostly exposed by bulldozers or erosion. iii) Two Palaeontologists have pronounced them genuine: - Dr. Camp of the University of California, and - Dr. G. Westcott of Ypsilanti, Michigan. iv) The associated dinosaur tracks are accepted as valid. v) Some prints have ridges of mud pushed up around them. vi) Upon sawing through the footprints, the rock particles underneath are more compressed than particles surrounding the prints. Source: “Scientific American”, A.G. Ingalls: “The Carboniferous Mystery” 162 (1940), page 14. See R.L. Wysong “The Creation-Evolution Controversy”, p.373 Polystrate Trees. Crossing several rock strata are trees preserved as well at their tops as at their bottoms. These fossil trees bridge an evolutionary imagined time span of millions of years, that would preclude their “in place” growth and fossilisation. Galaxy star clusters (spirals with billions of stars) move so rapidly that they would not stay together if the universe were very old. Large Stars. Some stars are so large that they radiate energy 10,000 to 1 million times more rapidly than our sun. They could not have contained enough hydrogen to radiate this fast for millions of years, because their initial mass would have been too big. These O and B class stars, and P Cygni stars could not continue atomic fusion longer than 50,000 to 300,000 years. Abundant Hydrogen in stars. Hydrogen in stars is continually being converted into Helium. Hydrogen cannot be made from other elements. Fred Hoyle states that, if the universe were as old as Big Bang theorists think, then there would be little hydrogen left, as it would be converted to Helium by now. Spectra from stars reveal abundant hydrogen in stars.This implies a young universe. Solar shrinking. Since 1836, over 100 different observers at the Greenwich Observatory and US Naval Observatory have measured the sun’s diameter to shrink at 0.1% per century or 5 feet per hour. At this rate, 50,000 years ago the sun would have been so large as to boil earth’s oceans, making life on earth impossible. 100,000 years ago our sun would have been twice as large. Comets elliptically orbit the sun and are thought to be as old as the sun. As comets orbit the sun, they lose some of their water and gases from the sun’s heat, gravity and tail formation. The tail consists of material driven away from its head by solar energy. Some comets regularly seen in the 19th Century have broken up and vanished, or plunged into the sun. All comets should self-destruct in a short ime, less than 10,000 years. There should be no comets left. Evolution cannot explain comets in an old solar system. Comets are young objects created in a young solar system. Meteoroids bombarding Saturn’s rings would have destroyed them in less than 10,000 years. (W T Brown, In the Beginning, p 18). Jupiter’s Moons. If they evolved, they should be physically alike, having the same amount of volcanoes and impact craters, but this is not so. Evolution claims that all planets were molten 5 billion years ago and volcanic activity stopped 4 billion years ago as they cooled. The moons Ganymede and Callisto have no volcanoes and many impact craters. Europa has no volcanoes and no impact craters. Io has 7 active volcanoes and no impact craters. Titan has volcanoes. Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune (4) have rings, which could not survive 4 billion years. Jupiter’s intense magnetic field radiation would sweep out its rings. (Bradford Smith, a Voyager Scientist). Venus’ high temperature and little erosion, imply a young age for Venus. If Venus was 4 billion years old, its dense atmosphere should have worn away its craters. Mars has little erosion and some water. Mars has many sharp edged craters and volcanoes, as well as month-long dust storms. Several thousand years of this weather would have seriously eroded these edges and its strong colour differences. Powerful solar UV radiation would have long ago broken down the small amount of water, releasing the oxygen into the atmosphere and hydrogen into space. Evolution predicts no surface water and much atmospheric oxygen, but measurements show the opposite being some surface water and very little atmospheric oxygen. Lunar Recession. Due to tidal friction, the moon is moving away from earth at about 4 cm per year (1 ½ inches). At this rate, 5 billion years ago the moon would have been 200,000km. closer. Meteorite Craters only occur on the earth’s surface, never being found in the rock strata. If earth were 5 billion years old, we would find many meteorite craters in the sedimentary rock strata, but we don’t. Thus all meteorites which have struck the earth, have hit it in the last 5000 years. Oil Well Pressure. When oil drillers first penetrate oil wells, oil gushes out because the oil and gas are under great pressure from surrounding rocks. Sedimentary rocks surrounding the oil wells are porous. Studies of these show that the oil would seep out before 100,000 years, but this has not happened. This great oil pressure argues strongly against millions of years age for oil wells, and implies an age for oil of around 10,000 years. Oil, coal and gas were formed during the Great Flood 4,400 years ago (in 2418BC). Earth’s Molten Interior. Deep within the earth, the rocks are molten. The earth is slowly cooling from the surface inwards according to Stefan’s Law of Radiation. Lord Kelvin in 1889 calculated that the earth could not be billions of years old because of earth’s known rate of cooling, the existing temperature gradient in the earth, and the assumption that the earth could not have been hotter than “white hot” initially.“Popular Lectures and Addresses”(London: MacMillan, 1889, p.415). If earth were billions of years old, it would have cooled far more than it now has, even if we assume a radioactively generated heating mechanism. (W T Brown, In the Beginning, p 17). Radiohaloes are colour rings around microscopic radioactive minerals in rock crystals. “Squashed” Polonium-210 radiohaloes indicate that Jurassic, Triassic and Eocene formations in the Colorado Plateau were deposited within months of one another, not from 225-255 million years apart, as evolution claims. “Orphan” Polonium-218 radiohaloes, having no evidence of their mother elements,imply either instant creation, or drastic changes in radioactive decay rates Ocean sediment. There is not enough sediment on the sea floors for earth to be 5 billion years old. Rivers add about 28 billion tons of sediment to the oceans each year. If this had occurred for 1 billion years, the continents would have eroded away many times. There would be a layer of sediment on the ocean floor at least 60 miles thick. However, the average depth of sediment on the ocean floor is about 800 metres, and the continents have not eroded once yet. The Tasman Sea off Australia is not part of a subduction zone of ocean floor being pushed deep into the earth. Subduction zones could not dispose of 10% of incoming sediment. Hence, sea floors seem young. Tree Rings. The oldest living things are Bristlecone pines growing in Eastern Nevada, aged about 4,600 years old (sometimes producing 2 growth rings per year, so their age would be less), and Sequoia Gigantea in the Sierra Nevada Mountains, which are never older than about 4,000 years. These giant redwoods have no known enemies, and never have any dead trees among them. Unless man cuts them down, they never seem to die. 17 Bristlecone pines are dated about 4,000 years old. Since the Flood occurred about 2,418 BC, this implies that: a) all the pre-Flood Sequoias and Bristlecones were wiped out by the Flood, and b) there is no record of any living tree older than the Flood. Man’s Recorded History.If man has lived on earth for 1 million years, why do we only find human records going back to about 3500 BC? This cuneiform tablet is the oldest human writing from Sumeria. When human records first appear, they show man to be highly developed with a sophisticated civilisation. This agrees better with a creation date of 4074 BC than with evolution’s 1 million year history of man. Why did man do nothing for 1 million years? Because he has only been here for 6,000 years. 

Appearances of Jehovah in the Old Testament as the Son of God John 6:46 1. To Adam in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 3:8. ‘They heard the voice of the LORD God walking in…’ 2. To the Tower of Babel. Genesis 11:5,7. ‘The LORD came down to see the city and the tower..’ 3. To Abram. Genesis 12:7.‘The LORD appeared unto Abram & said, Unto thy seed will I give this land’ 4. To Abram to make a covenant with him. Genesis 15:17. ‘a smoking furnace & a burning lamp passed’ 5. To Hagar as the Angel of Jehovah. Genesis 16:7,9,10,11,13 6. To Abraham and Sarah to announce the conception of Isaac. Genesis 17:1 7. To Abraham to discuss the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 18:1,2,21,33 and 19:24. 8. To Sarah to conceive Isaac. Genesis 21:1-4. ‘The LORD visited Sarah as he had said…’ 9. To Hagar and Ishmael when cast out by Sarah in the desert. Genesis 21:9-21,17. 10. To Abraham when sacrificing Isaac. Genesis 22:10-18,11,15,16. 11. To Abraham’s servant getting a wife for Isaac at Haran. Genesis 24:40 12. To Isaac forbidding him going to Egypt. Genesis 26:1-6. 13. To Isaac at Beersheba after digging wells. Genesis 26:24. 14. To Jacob at the top of a ladder from earth to heaven. Genesis 28:13 15. To wrestle with Jacob and change his name to Israel. Genesis 32:24-30. 16. To Jacob to change his name to Israel. Genesis 35:9. Jacob recounts to Joseph how God Almighty appeared to him at Luz (Gen 35:6) to bless him. (Gen 48:3) 17. To Moses at the burning bush as the angel of Jehovah, as Jehovah God, to go to Pharaoh (Ex. 3:1-18) 18. To Moses to give him signs to prove to Israel that God has appeared to him. (Exodus 4:1-5) 19. To kill Moses in the inn, because Moses neglected to circumcise his son. (Exodus 4:24-26). 20. Recounted to Moses how He appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty. (Ex. 6:3) 21. To Israel leaving Egypt in a pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night. (Exodus 13:21,22). 22. To Israel at the Red Sea as the angel of God to separate them from Pharaoh’s armies. (Exod 14:19,20) 23. To Pharaoh’s armies pursuing Israel in the Red Sea to take off their chariot wheels. (Exod 14:24,25) 24. To Israel, standing on the rock in Horeb, when Moses smote the rock to give water. (Exodus 17:5-7 25. To Israel at Mount Sinai, to give Moses the ten commandments. (Exodus 19:11,17-20). 26. To Israel in the wilderness as an Angel to lead Israel into Canaan. (Exodus 23:20,21,23). 27. To Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, 70 elders at Mt Sinai to give the 10 Commandments. (24:10,11,17) 28. To Moses in the clift of a rock to see God’s back parts. (‘Thou shalt see my back parts’ Exodus 33:23) 29. To Moses at Mt Sinai to get the 10 Commandments. (‘LORD descended in a cloud & stood’ Ex. 34:5) 30. To Moses & Israel in the tabernacle. ‘the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.’ (Exodus 40:34,38). 31. To Moses from the tabernacle to instruct on offerings. (LORD called unto Moses and spake’ Lev.1:1) 32. To all Israel. (‘the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the people. There came a fire out..’ Lev 9:23) 33. To Moses after the death of Nadab and Abihu. (I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat. Lev 16:2 34. To Moses in the tabernacle to number Israel. (LORD spake unto Moses..in the tabernacle. Numbers 1:1 35. To Moses in the tabernacle.‘he heard the voice of one speaking to him from off the mercy seat. Num7:89 36. To Israel in the wilderness. So it was alway: the cloud covered it by day, & the appearance of fire by night.9:16 37. To put Moses spirit on 70 elders. ‘The LORD came down in a cloud and spake unto him..’ Num 11:25 38. To rebuke Miriam for criticizing Moses. ‘The LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.’ Numbers 12:5 39. To all the congregation when Korah led a rebellion against Moses. Numbers 16:19,42 40. To Balaam as the angel of the LORD when visiting Balak to curse Israel. Numbers 22:9,20-35. 41. To Moses before His death in the door of the tabernacle. Deut. 31:14,15. ‘the LORD appeared in tab’ 42. To Joshua as the Captain of the host of the LORD. Joshua 5:13-15. 43. To Joshua and Israel at Bochim. Judges 2:1-4. (‘the similitude of the LORD shall he behold’ Num 12:8 44. To Gideon to deliver Israel from Midian. Judges 6:12,14,16,20,21. 45. To Manoah and his wife to declare the birth of Samson. Judges 13:3,9,13,16-18,20-22. 46. To Samuel as a boy. ‘The LORD came and stood and called as at other times, Samuel.’ I Sam. 3:9-14 47. To Solomon and Israel at Temple dedication in 1004BC. I Kings 8:10,11. ‘glory of the LORD filled.’ 48. To destroy 185,000 Assyrian soldiers surrounding Jerusalem in 710 BC. 2 Kings 19:35; Isaiah 37:36. 49. To Shadrach, Meshach, Abed-nego in a furnace. ‘form of the fourth is like the Son of God’Daniel 3:25

If i were in heaven, i would be worshipping God. We are not and will not be able to hear peoples' prayers.

"anti-catholic junk" ? Decret. Par Distinct 96 Ch. 7 Edit Lugd. is "anti-Catholic"? The New York Catechism is "anti-Catholic"? Now, unless you can refute what i posted, stop harassing me.

Appearances of Jehovah in the Old Testament as the Son of God John 6:46 1. To Adam in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 3:8. ‘They heard the voice of the LORD God walking in…’ 2. To the Tower of Babel. Genesis 11:5,7. ‘The LORD came down to see the city and the tower..’ 3. To Abram. Genesis 12:7.‘The LORD appeared unto Abram & said, Unto thy seed will I give this land’ 4. To Abram to make a covenant with him. Genesis 15:17. ‘a smoking furnace & a burning lamp passed’ 5. To Hagar as the Angel of Jehovah. Genesis 16:7,9,10,11,13 6. To Abraham and Sarah to announce the conception of Isaac. Genesis 17:1 7. To Abraham to discuss the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. Genesis 18:1,2,21,33 and 19:24. 8. To Sarah to conceive Isaac. Genesis 21:1-4. ‘The LORD visited Sarah as he had said…’ 9. To Hagar and Ishmael when cast out by Sarah in the desert. Genesis 21:9-21,17. 10. To Abraham when sacrificing Isaac. Genesis 22:10-18,11,15,16. 11. To Abraham’s servant getting a wife for Isaac at Haran. Genesis 24:40 12. To Isaac forbidding him going to Egypt. Genesis 26:1-6. 13. To Isaac at Beersheba after digging wells. Genesis 26:24. 14. To Jacob at the top of a ladder from earth to heaven. Genesis 28:13 15. To wrestle with Jacob and change his name to Israel. Genesis 32:24-30. 16. To Jacob to change his name to Israel. Genesis 35:9. Jacob recounts to Joseph how God Almighty appeared to him at Luz (Gen 35:6) to bless him. (Gen 48:3) 17. To Moses at the burning bush as the angel of Jehovah, as Jehovah God, to go to Pharaoh (Ex. 3:1-18) 18. To Moses to give him signs to prove to Israel that God has appeared to him. (Exodus 4:1-5) 19. To kill Moses in the inn, because Moses neglected to circumcise his son. (Exodus 4:24-26). 20. Recounted to Moses how He appeared to Abraham, to Isaac and to Jacob as God Almighty. (Ex. 6:3) 21. To Israel leaving Egypt in a pillar of cloud by day, and a pillar of fire by night. (Exodus 13:21,22). 22. To Israel at the Red Sea as the angel of God to separate them from Pharaoh’s armies. (Exod 14:19,20) 23. To Pharaoh’s armies pursuing Israel in the Red Sea to take off their chariot wheels. (Exod 14:24,25) 24. To Israel, standing on the rock in Horeb, when Moses smote the rock to give water. (Exodus 17:5-7 25. To Israel at Mount Sinai, to give Moses the ten commandments. (Exodus 19:11,17-20). 26. To Israel in the wilderness as an Angel to lead Israel into Canaan. (Exodus 23:20,21,23). 27. To Moses, Aaron, Nadab, Abihu, 70 elders at Mt Sinai to give the 10 Commandments. (24:10,11,17) 28. To Moses in the clift of a rock to see God’s back parts. (‘Thou shalt see my back parts’ Exodus 33:23) 29. To Moses at Mt Sinai to get the 10 Commandments. (‘LORD descended in a cloud & stood’ Ex. 34:5) 30. To Moses & Israel in the tabernacle. ‘the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.’ (Exodus 40:34,38). 31. To Moses from the tabernacle to instruct on offerings. (LORD called unto Moses and spake’ Lev.1:1) 32. To all Israel. (‘the glory of the LORD appeared unto all the people. There came a fire out..’ Lev 9:23) 33. To Moses after the death of Nadab and Abihu. (I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat. Lev 16:2 34. To Moses in the tabernacle to number Israel. (LORD spake unto Moses..in the tabernacle. Numbers 1:1 35. To Moses in the tabernacle.‘he heard the voice of one speaking to him from off the mercy seat. Num7:89 36. To Israel in the wilderness. So it was alway: the cloud covered it by day, & the appearance of fire by night.9:16 37. To put Moses spirit on 70 elders. ‘The LORD came down in a cloud and spake unto him..’ Num 11:25 38. To rebuke Miriam for criticizing Moses. ‘The LORD came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.’ Numbers 12:5 39. To all the congregation when Korah led a rebellion against Moses. Numbers 16:19,42 40. To Balaam as the angel of the LORD when visiting Balak to curse Israel. Numbers 22:9,20-35. 41. To Moses before His death in the door of the tabernacle. Deut. 31:14,15. ‘the LORD appeared in tab’ 42. To Joshua as the Captain of the host of the LORD. Joshua 5:13-15. 43. To Joshua and Israel at Bochim. Judges 2:1-4. (‘the similitude of the LORD shall he behold’ Num 12:8 44. To Gideon to deliver Israel from Midian. Judges 6:12,14,16,20,21. 45. To Manoah and his wife to declare the birth of Samson. Judges 13:3,9,13,16-18,20-22. 46. To Samuel as a boy. ‘The LORD came and stood and called as at other times, Samuel.’ I Sam. 3:9-14 47. To Solomon and Israel at Temple dedication in 1004BC. I Kings 8:10,11. ‘glory of the LORD filled.’ 48. To destroy 185,000 Assyrian soldiers surrounding Jerusalem in 710 BC. 2 Kings 19:35; Isaiah 37:36. 49. To Shadrach, Meshach, Abed-nego in a furnace. ‘form of the fourth is like the Son of God’Daniel 3:25

Just saying the words mean NOTHING. By their fruits ye shall know them. You are totally IGNORING all these proofs that catholicism is anti-Christian and are simply repeated ONE verse. Soften your heart, my friend.

I was going to post that! Thanks for saving me the trouble. This proves these "traditions " were introduced by MEN over MANY YEARS.

Then how can you say my quotes are wrong? But, WHICH Jesus? That has been historically proven to be a LIE. If the Bible is a Catholic book, how can Catholics account for the passage, "A bishop then, must be blameless, married but once, reserved, prudent, of good conduct, hospitable, a teacher...He should rule well his own household, keeping his children under control and perfectly respectful. For if a man cannot rule his own household, how is he to take care of the church of God?" (1 Tim. 3:2, 4-5). The Catholic Church does not allow a bishop to marry, while the Bible says "he must be married." Furthermore, if the Bible is a Catholic book, why did they write the Bible as it is, and feel the necessity of putting footnotes at the bottom of the page in effort to keep their subject from believing what is in the text? It cannot be proven that the Catholic Church is solely responsible for the gathering and selection of the New Testament books. In fact, it can be shown that the New Testament books were gathered into one volume and were in circulation long before the Catholic Church claims to have taken its action in 390 at the council of Hippo. God did not give councils the authority to select His sacred books, nor does He expect men to receive His sacred books only because of councils or on the basis of councils. It takes no vote or sanction of a council to make the books of the Bible authoritative. Men were able to rightly discern which books were inspired before the existence of ecclesiastical councils and men can do so today. A council of men in 390 with no divine authority whatever, supposedly took upon itself the right to state which books were inspired, and Catholics argue, "We can accept the Bible only on the authority of the Catholic Church." Can we follow such reasoning? No, it was the catholic church. not ROMAN catholic. The Roman Catholic "Church" was not really in effect as an organization in the first couple hundred years of the Christian Church. The Christian church was under persecution and official church gatherings were risky business in the Roman Empire. Catholicism as an organization with a central figure located in Rome did not occur for quite some time, in spite of its false claim they can trace the papacy back to Peter. The early church as described in the NT did the following: shared all things in common, relationships, support missionaries/ministers, teaching & preaching, praying, worshiping, reading of scripture, evangelism, fostering spiritual gifts. No where does the NT dictate fancy buildings, robes, repetitive prayer, a priesthood, Mary worship, sectarianism, or any order of service, etc.. all these are MAN MADE traditions ADDED ON. LOL. the 12 commandments are reiterated in the New Testamant Second Commandment: Acts 15:20; 17:16; 29; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:9; 10:7, 14, 19; 12:2; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15. Oh, the Bible calls catholicism/papacy as the whore. No offense, you seem quite ignorant and are only repeating things someone told you. It doesnt seem like YOU have studied.

How are you saved?

But there is ONE intercessor and mary aint Him! “Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.” Doesn’t this sound like worship? Can we pray to Mary or other saints as we do to God? Can some person who is at the other end of the universe hear our prayers? Isn't this something that is exclusively reserved to God? How can a saint hear hundreds or thousands of prayers at one time? No matter how great a saint they were, they are not omniscient nor can they answer our prayers (it is a known fact there are more prayers offered to Mary than to God by Catholics). This is seen by the statement by Bishop Liqouri “We often more quickly obtain what we ask by calling on the name of Mary than by invoking that of Jesus. She...is our Salvation, our Life, our Hope, our Counsel, our Refuge, our Help” (The Glories of Mary by Bishop Alphonse de Ligouri (Brooklyn: Redemptorist Fathers, pp. 254, 257). We may affirm that by the will of God, nothing is given to us without Mary's mediation, in such a way that just as no one can approach the Almighty Father but through His Son, so no one, so to speak, can approach Christ but through His Mother.Pope Leo XIII, Adjutricem populi, 5 September 1895: http://www.rosarychurch.net/mary/mediatrix.html Pope Leo XIII, Adjutricem populi, 5 September 1895: O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee. None, O Mother of God, obtains salvation except through thee. None receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee. From Bishop Liguoris' "The Glories of Mary", APPROVED by the vatican! "She (Mary) is . . . the ONLY hope of sinners: (p. 69),"We will be heard and saved sooner by going to Mary, and invoking her holy name, than that of Jesus our Savior. We will find salvation sooner going to the mother than going to the Son" (p. 82),"Many things asked of God and not received are asked and received from Mary (p. 82). All obey the precepts of Mary, even God" (p. 115). For to be right and good, worship of the Mother of God ought to spring from the heart; acts of the body have here neither utility nor value if the acts of the soul have no part in them. Now these latter can only have one object, which is that we should fully carry out what the divine Son of Mary commands. For if true love alone has the power to unite the wills of men, it is of the first necessity that we should have one will with Mary to serve Jesus our Lord. What this most prudent Virgin said to the servants at the marriage feast of Cana she addresses also to us: "Whatsoever he shall say to you, do ye" (John ii., 5). http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10imcon.htm ALL CATHOLIC LIES! The Gospel of Jesus Christ has absolutely nothing to do with Mary. None of the Apostles ever mentioned Mary in their Epistles. Jesus never directed us to recognize Mary. In fact, the Bible clearly states in Matthew 11:11 that there has never been a child born amongst women greater than John the Baptist. Anyhow, this thread is NOT about mary, so PLEASE stay on topic.

So you would condemn Jesus for calling people snakes, vipers, sons of satan, that they were going to hell, etc.? This has NOTHING to do with "interpreting" the Bible!~ You are, of course assuming that catholics are "Christian" LOL. Please quote the WHOLE passage, please, not just a little part of it.

Oh, there is more than one anti-Christ. And, i dont recall Paul ever saying he was God!

What’s Wrong with the Watchtower and Jehovah’s Witnesses? 1. They forbid blood transfusions which leads to many deaths. Would you let the WT kill your children? 2. They falsely prophesied Armageddon in 1975, Oct.1914, 1925, 3. They preach a false gospel of works rather than Christ for salvation.Gal.2:16,21; 3:10-14,22-26; Eph.2:8-10 4. They deny the Trinity as taught in Matthew 28:19; Isaiah 48:12,13,16; I John 5:7; II Cor.13:14. 5. They deny Jesus Christ is “God manifest in the flesh”. (I Timothy 3:16). 6. They deny believers go to heaven except for 144,000 JWs. (Rev.19:1 great crowd in heaven; II Cor.5:1,8) 7. They deny hell, but Jesus taught it in Mark 9:44,46,48; “Ev punishment” Mt25:46; torment Luke 16:19-31 8. They deny Jesus Christ’s future visible return to earth. Rev.1:7; Zech 14:1-5; Acts 1:11. 9. They deny the personality of the Holy Spirit. (Answers 929 for 23 personal attributes of HS). 10. They deny Jesus died on a cross, but on a stake. (“nails” John 20:25; “over his head” Matthew 27:37. 11. They deny Christ died for our personal sins. Rom.5:8; I Cor.15:3; I John 2:2; 3:5; I Peter 2:24; 3:18. 12. They deny Jesus rose bodily from the dead, but only as a spirit. Luke 24:37,39; John 2:19-21;Acts 20:31 13. They deny soul consciousness after death. (Rev 6:9,10; Isaiah 14:9,10; Ezekiel 32:21,30,31;Phil 1:23 14. They deny present tense salvation. John 3:36; Rom.8:16; I John 3:2; 5:12,13; I Cor.1:18; II Cor.2:15; Eph 2:8 15. They deny that Jesus keeps believers saved. John 10:28; Rom.8:29,38,39; I Peter 1:4,5; I John 2:25; 5:13. 16. They change verses to deny Jesus is God. John 1:1; 8:58; Heb 1:6,8; Zech 12:10; Acts 20:28;Col 1:16,17 17. They forbid members from reading anti WT material, or proofs of the trinity or deity of Christ.

This lesson is just as much for me as it is you. I struggle. Boy, do i struggle. Pray for me, please. Habits: Control your Habits or Your Habits will Control You Bible Reading: Luke 4:16-30 Aim: To see the power of habits in directing our future life. Introduction: One of the devil’s greatest tools to destroy us is to get us to tolerate, accept and form bad habits early in life. He knows that when a person forms a bad habit, it is very hard to break. ‘His own iniquities shall take the wicked himself, and he shall be holden with the cords of his sins.’ (Proverbs 5:22). The world, peers and the devil tell us to try some sin once, so that we will form a wrong habit. Once we have done an action, it is easier to continue it again, until it becomes a regular habit. Definition of Habit: A settled tendency or practice that guides our behaviour. It is some action that we do regularly as our custom. It is our automatic reaction to a specific situation. I. Illustrations of the need to form good habits (Luke 4:16). Question: What is a habit? 1) Have you ever seen men laying concrete footpaths in a street? They place boards across the wet concrete to prevent people from walking on it until it is thoroughly dry. They keep people off the footpath while it is soft, because if anyone steps on it, their footprints will harden into the footpath as it dries, and the imprint will always remain there. People’s minds are just like those cement footpaths when they are wet and soft. If you do something over and over again, you will make such a deep mark in your brains that when you get older you will not get the habit out. You keep on doing it, whether you want to or not. 2) When you do a thing once, it is easier to do it again. Even cloth and paper finds it easier to do a thing a second time than the first. The sleeves of your dresses and coats fall into the same wrinkles and creases every time you put them on. That is what we call the ‘hang’ of a dress or coat. If you fold a piece of paper once, it quickly forms the habit of folding along the same crease again. It is very important for us to form good habits early in life, because first you make the habits, and then the habits make you. 3) You have seen a little stream running between its banks and over its pebbly bed. Once there was no stream bed there, but many years ago, a little stream began to trickle through, and finally it wore out a bed for itself. Now it cannot leave the bed if it wishes to. This is what you do when you start a habit. You make a course which you will follow later in life. 4) First you take the train, and then the train takes you. First the stream makes the bed, then the bed guides the stream. After we are thirty years of age we are little more than a bundle of habits. You are deciding now by the habits you make what sort of person you will be. If you want to be a good, honourable, strong person, then be sure you form good habits now. II. Bible characters who formed good habits 1) Jesus (Luke 4:16). It was Jesus’ custom to go to the synagogue on the Sabbath day. Jesus’ mother and Joseph taught him by example to go to the Synagogue every Sabbath & feast day. Here the Scriptures were read and explained, and prayers were offered to God. This teaches us that it is our duty regularly to attend public worship of God. It is our duty to maintain public worship and to help others to do it. We must show by our example that we love it and we must encourage others to love it. Q: Do you have a habit of honouring God’s house and teaching others to honour and love it? 2) Daniel. Daniel knelt and prayed three times a day ‘and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime’ (Daniel 6:10), even though the King had passed a law against such actions. 3) The ‘House of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints.’ (I Corinthians 16:15). III. How and Where do we form bad habits? 1) By mixing with ungodly people, you adopt their thinking. (Psalms 1:1). 2) By taking cigarettes, alcohol, drugs. ‘I will not be brought under the power of any.’ I Cor 6:12 1336 3) By watching bad things. ‘I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes’ (Psalms 101:3). Pornography addicts start by looking at pornography occasionally. Soon it controls them. 4) By going to an ungodly school. ‘He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.’ (Proverbs 13:20). 5) By saying bad words. If you mix with people who swear, you will learn to swear. ‘Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.’ (Ephesians 4:29). 6) By mixing with angry people. ‘Make no friendship with an angry man . . . Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul.’ (Proverbs 22:24,25). IV. What bad habits can we form? 1) Lying 2) Anger, temper, rage 3) Laziness 4) Alcohol, drug addiction, cigarettes 5) Late for church 6) Rejecting Jesus Christ speaking to your mind 7) Fornication 8) Pornography 9) False doctrines 10) Not putting things away after using them 11) Disrespect for parents 12) Procrastination 13) Accepting weak excuses for not serving God or doing right 14) Eating too much food or junk food 15) Complaining, having a critical spirit 16) Easily offended 17) Not reading the Bible or praying; putting off family devotions 18) Worry 19) Self justification 20) Pessimism 21) Hypocrisy 22) Addiction to shopping 23) Being unprepared, untidy or disorganized 24) Selfishness 25) Disobedient to parents or pastor 26) Interrupting 27) Swearing and cursing. V. What good habits should we form? See Answers book, page 1134 Daily dozen. VI. How can we form good habits? 1) Know that bad habits will destroy our usefulness and productivity 2) Bad habits may get passed on to our children 3) Bad habits make people resent us 4) Look to Jesus Christ to help us form good habits 5) Ask God to give you good habits 6) Start forming good habits as children early in life 7) Memorize Scripture 8) Ask your wife and parents what bad habits you have and how to fix them 9) Look carefully at yourself and ask God to cleanse your heart from bad habits. Conclusion: What bad habits have you formed? How will you change them? By replacing them with good habits and asking Jesus Christ for victory over them. Do immediately what you are supposed to do.

Praying, my friend. I know its hard sometimes when it appears God does not fulfill what He has apparently promised. I struggle a lot so i can sympathize with you. You are not alone, my friend.

MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY PROFESSOR EMAIL Very interesting -- the University is standing by their professor and not bowing down to special interest groups! http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/wichman.asp Professor Wichman E-mail Claim: A Michigan professor sent an e-mail telling Muslim students to leave the country. Status: True. The story begins at Michigan State University with a mechanical engineering professor named Indred Wichman. Wichman sent an e-mail to the Muslim Student's Association. The e-mail was in response to the students' protest of the Danish cartoons that portrayed the Prophet Muhammad as a terrorist. The group had complained the cartoons were 'hate speech.' ============ In Professor Wichman’s e-mail, he said the following: =============================== Dear Muslim Association, As a professor of Mechanical Engineering here at MSU I intend to protest your protest. I am offended not by cartoons, but by more mundane things like beheadings of civilians, cowardly attacks on public buildings, suicide murders, murders of Catholic priests (the latest in Turkey), burnings of Christian churches, the continued persecution of Coptic Christians in Egypt, the imposition of Sharia law on non-Muslims, the rapes of Scandinavian girls and women (called 'whores' in your culture), the murder of film directors in Holland, and the rioting and looting in Paris France. This is what offends me, a soft-spoken person and academic, and many, many of my colleagues. I counsel you dissatisfied, aggressive, brutal, and uncivilized slave-trading Muslims to be very aware of this as you proceed with your infantile 'protests.' If you do not like the values of the West - see the First Amendment - you are free to leave. I hope that most of you choose that option. Please return to your ancestral homelands and build them up yourselves instead of troubling Americans. Cordially, I. S. Wichman Professor of Mechanical Engineering ============================= As you can imagine, the Muslim group at the university didn't like this too well. They're demanding that Wichman be reprimanded, that the university impose mandatory diversity training for faculty, and mandate a seminar on hate and discrimination for all freshmen. Now, the local chapter of CAIR has jumped into the fray. CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, apparently doesn't believe that the good professor had the right to express his opinion. ========== For its part, the university is standing its ground in support of Professor Wichman, We are in a war. This political correctness rubbish is getting old.

Tongues was a warning to Israel and ceased in 70AD with the destruction of Jerusalem. The modern tongues movement is not of God and should be rejected as unbiblical. “Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not.” I Corinthians 4:22. Therefore, tongues are a sign for unbelievers, NOT for believers. 'When that (Greek: To Teleion) which is perfect is come”. The pronoun “THAT” in Greek, describing the perfect, is neuter. The Bible is neuter. This fits the context perfectly. Christ is masculine, not neuter, so “that which is perfect’ cannot refer to Christ

Some Christians want a shortcut to power with God by speaking in tongues, slaying in the spirit or healing, but they lose Bible based authority for an experience based authority. They get mixed up with shallow churches, false doctrines and worldly entertainment.

No, it is not real. it is jibber jabber. If tongues are necessary, why did none of the 5,000 who believed and received the Holy Spirit in Acts 2-4, also speak in tongues? Answer: Because tongues are not an evidence of Baptism of the Holy Spirit. For something to be normal for everybody, it must happen to everyone. And it did not happen to everybody. Consider that of all the 16 salvation events described in Acts, only 2 groups spoke in tongues: 1. Acts 2........................... 3,000 at Pentecost................................. no tongues 2. Acts 3, 4....................... 5,000 at the Beautiful gate.................... no tongues 3. Acts 5:14...................... Multitudes saved................................... no tongues 4. Acts 8:17...................... Samaritan believers............................... no tongues 5. Acts 8:37-39................. Ethiopian eunuch.................................. no tongues 6. Acts 9........................... Saul on Damascus road........................ no tongues 7. Acts 10:46.................... Cornelius' household......................... tongues 8. Acts 11:19-24……….... Greeks saved at Antioch………………. no tongues 9. Acts 16:14, 15.............. Lydia.................................................... no tongues 10. Acts 16:16-19............... Demonised damsel................................ no tongues 11. Acts 16:25-34............... Philippian jailer and his household....... no tongues 12. Acts 17:1-4................... Thessalonian believers.......................... no tongues 13. Acts 17:10-12............... Berean believers.................................... no tongues 14. Acts 17:15-34............... Athenian believers................................ no tongues 15. Acts 18:8...................... Crispus and Corinthians at salvation..... no tongues 16. Acts 19:1-12................. 12 disciples of John at Ephesus.... tongues 17. Acts 19:18-20............... Ephesian believers................................ no tongues 18. Acts 28:23,24............... Roman believers.................................... no tongues

I am VERY sorry if i offended anyone with my reply. I need to try to be not as harsh or upfront. I pray for your forgiveness.

Oh, i DO fear the Lord. Yes, of course i could be wrong. As could YOU. Maybe i should of said "It COULD be satan". the problem _I_ see with pentecostals is that anyone who does NOT jibber jabber or does not believe in it is not as "spiritual" as those that do. I can only speak for myself. I prefer to KNOW what i am praying about.

They are not, and have never been, in the Jewish canon. Josephus explicitly excluded them from his list. Philo (20 B.C.-50 A.D.) neither mentions or quotes them. They were never quoted or alluded to by Jesus Christ or any of the apostles. The sermapocryphal events. Jewish scholars meeting at the Council of Jabneh did not recognize them. Most Church Fathers in fact rejected them. None of the Apocrypha claim inspiration or divine authority. Many of the Apocryphal books contain historical, geographical, and chronological errors. Many of the Apocryphal books teach heresy, contrary to the Word of God. Their literary style is legendary and fantasy. Some stories are grotesque and demonic. They lack the power and distinctive elements of the Word of God. The sermons in the Book of Acts, which outline Jewish history, do not included apocryphal events. According to the Catholic Encyclopedia, St. Jerome was hesitant to include most of the apocryphal books in the canon, due to numerous errors. Even after he did concede to include them (in the fourth century), they were not decreed to be inspired scripture until April 8, 1546 at the Council of Trent. So for 1100 years, they were part of the canon, but not officially scripture. The reason for this is again, because of the numerous errors.... ...It appears they were ultimately accepted at Trent, because without doing so, the Catholic Church had no scripture upon which to base the doctrine of purgatory, invocation and intercession of the saints, the worship of angels, the redemption of souls after death, etc. In fact, if you'll look at the Catholic Encyclopedia, you'll find discussion of "problems" or "errors" with most of the apocryphal books. Judith falsely states that Nebuchadnezzar reigns over the Assyrians,whereas he ruled Babylon instead.Torbit could not have witnessed the division of Israel into the northern and southern kingdoms in 931BC(Tor1:4),and have been deported 200 years later in 734BC(Tor1:10). Tobit 4:11 and Tobit 12:9 state that giving money forgives sins. This contradicts Christs' work on the cross. Jesus and the apostles quote 260 times from the 35 out of 39 OT books, yet they NEVER quoted the apocrypha. Jerome rejected the Deuterocanonical books when he was translating the Bible into Latin circa 450 CE, (see the Vulgate). This was because no Hebrew version of these texts could be found, even though they were present in the Greek Old Testament (the Septuagint). However, they eventually were accepted by the Church, and most of them remained part of the Bible. Protestants rejected these books during the Reformation as lacking divine authority. They either excised them completely or placed them in a third section of the Bible. The Roman Catholic Council of Trent, on the other hand, declared in 1546 that the Deuterocanonical books were indeed divine. Neither their authors nor the circumstances of their writings are known.The Jews nor the early Christians accepted them as inspired scripture.The books themselves dont claim inspiration.There's no"Thus saith the Lord"'s .Although the N.T has 263 direct quotes from and 370 allusions to the O.T,there's not a single reference to the books of the apocrypha.It was at Trent,Ap.8th1546,that the pope declared tradition+the apocrypha to be canonical and authoritative. Though these books were considered non-canonical, slowly over the years they came to be regarded by the Roman Catholic Church as part of the Bible, and were finally officially labeled as such. But the Historical Hebrew Religion, and the Historical Christian Religion growing from it, understood that these writings were non-canonical. 1. Sirach 3:3-“He who honors his father atones for sins:” Galatians 2:16,21-“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness came by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.” Galatians 3:11-“But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, the just shall live by faith.” 2. Tobit 12:8,9-“Prayer and fasting are good, but better than either is almsgiving accompanied by righteousness. A little with righteousness is better than abundance with wickedness. It is better to give alms than store up gold for almsgiving saves one from death and expiates sin.” I John 1:7-“But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.” Hebrews 9:22-“And almost all things are by the law purged by blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.”

Yes, FAITH, if it does not result in good works is a dead faith

27 REASONS WHY CHRISTIANS SHOULD NEITHER SEEK NOR DESIRE TONGUES. The Charismatic Movement contends that: i) The New Testament gift of tongues should be sought and spoken by ALL Christians today. They seek to revive all gifts, but none are given so great importance as tongues. ii) The tongues gift is the true Biblical sign of the "Baptism in the Spirit." iii) Those receiving tongues receive a second blessing after salvation, enabling them to live more sanctified, powerful and joyful witnessing lives. iv) The tongues movement is claimed to be the "latter rain" revival foretold in Joel 2:23. We must test all religious movements on the basis of: a) Their doctrines. 2 Timothy 4:2,3 b) Their fruits. Matthew 7:15,16 c) Their spirits or powers behind a movement. “Test the spirits.” 1 John 4:1-4.. Note the following reasons why tongues are not needed for Christians today: 1. Tongues were classed as one of the lowest gifts. In 1 Corinthians 12:28 tongues are mentioned last in a list of 8 gifts. These are ranked in order of importance because we have "first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues." 2. God gives the gifts "according to his own will," not according to our seeking. "Gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will." Hebrews 2:4. 1 Corinthians 12:8-11 lists 9 gifts, the last being tongues and interpretation of tongues: "For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gift of healing by the same spirit,…. But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will." Note: Tongues were spoken on 3 occasions in Acts (2:4; 10:46; 19:6), but on none of these occasions are the recipients seeking, waiting or expecting to speak in tongues. At Pentecost, only the Apostles (12) spoke in tongues, but all who were saved (3000) received the Holy Spirit (2:38,39). a) "Covet earnestly the best gifts”(12:31); tongues are not the best gifts, but one of the least gifts.14:1 b) Spiritual gifts could be desired (14:1) but not claimed in faith as a birthright. There is no command to seek them. 3. Most modern tongues are a learned behaviour. People are told to blank out their mind and say whatever comes out; then go home and practice it. This is foreign to the New Testament. 4. Tongues speakers may be deceived. Because a person speaks unintelligible sounds, it is not proof that he has the N.T. gift of tongues. Few Charismatics are prepared to examine tongues. We must “prove all things” (1 Thess. 5:21). How do you prove that tongues are genuine languages? In 1 Corinthians 14:27-29, Paul discusses wrong tongues which are not interpreted in the church, and wrong prophecy, thus teaching that others need to judge a prophecy. Tongues have been spoken by heathen religions, Mormons, etc.. 5. Tongues were a sign of God's wrath, displeasure and judgment on unbelieving Israel, never a sign of His blessing and approval on Christians. "Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe,but to them that believe not"1 Cor.14:22 a) Acts 10:44-47; 11:16-18. Tongues used by Cornelius' household was a sign to unbelieving Peter and unbelieving Jewish Christians, that Gentiles were to be received into the family of God. In Acts 11:15 the phrase "as on us at the beginning" means that tongues had not been spoken since Pentecost which was 10 years earlier. b) "Forbid not to speak in tongues" (1 Corinthians 14:39) was always on the understanding that tongues was a valid sign to warn Jewish unbelievers, until judgment came in 70AD. You don’t warn people after judgment has come. c) In meetings where there were no unbelieving Jews, all teaching, praying etc. was to be in the language of those present (1 Corinthians 14:23-28). 1 Corinthians 14:19 states that in the church, 5 words understood are better than 10,000 words in tongues that are not understood. d) Israel wanted signs, but the church must live by faith. “An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign.” (Matthew 12:39). e) The Corinthians were using tongues as a mark of spirituality, for personal gratification, and to gain attention. Paul rebukes this childish, selfish practice. 6. Tongues is one of several temporary gifts. i) Apostles. "are built upon the foundation of the apostles ii) Prophets, …and prophets." Ephesians 2:20. Neither they nor the Lord appointed any successors to their office. "12 apostles of the Lamb." (Revelation 21:14). There are no Apostles or prophets alive today. iii) Knowledge. This was intuitive, revealed knowledge of doctrine before the Bible was completed. A completed, perfect Bible ended this gift along with prophecy in 96AD.1 Corinthians 13:8-13. Today we must study to gain Bible knowledge. 2 Timothy 2:15. (1 Corinthians 14:21,22. iv) Tongues. With the setting aside of Israel in 70 AD, tongues and other sign gifts ceased. v) Interpretation of tongues - ceased in 70 AD when tongues ceased. iv) Gifts of healing. Paul lost this gift, as he could not heal Epaphroditus in 64AD (Phil. 2:26,27), Timothy's stomach in 65AD (1 Timothy 5:23) nor Trophimus in 66AD (2 Timothy 4:20). In Acts 5:12-16, Peter healed every one in 33 AD. vii) Gift of miracles -no one can work miracles today at their will as could the first century apostles. viii) Discerning of spirits - no one today has this gift because discernment comes through Bible knowledge of strong meat, full age Christians who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil (Hebrews 5:14). No one today would claim infallible judgment always in every issue of life, which is what this gift demands (1 Corinthians 12:10). 7. Historically, tongues ceased after 63-70 AD. Tongues were withdrawn when Israel deliberately rejected the apostles testimony of Christ, as seen in Acts 28:22-28 where Paul pronounces God's judgment on Israel (63AD). Judgment fell in 70AD. In all New Testament epistles written after this pronouncement in 63AD (Romans; Ephesians; Philippians; Colossians; 1 & 2 Timothy; Titus; Philemon; Hebrews; 1&2 Peter; John; 1,2 & 3 John; Jude and Revelation) there is no mention of tongues. Why? Because with the setting aside of Israel, and the confirming of the word of God, sign gifts were no longer necessary. These facts of the gospel and the apostles message of the Bible having been established, confirmed, and authenticated for all time, it is now an act of unbelief to seek for signs today. Early church writers such as Polycarp, Papias, Cyprian, Chrysostom, Augustine, Origen, Clement of Rome, Justin Martyr etc. never mentioned tongues. Why? Because they had been withdrawn. Chrysostom says: "tongues....used to occur, but now no longer take place." 8. Modern tongues and Charismatic Movement is not another Pentecost or "latter rain" of Joel 2:23. Joel's prophecy discusses Israel's restoration to their land in the Millennium. When this happens, and not before, the Holy Spirit will be poured out on all flesh. What happened at Pentecost was only an illustration, a small sample of what will happen in the Millennium. At Pentecost, there were no signs in the sun, moon etc, thus indicating that Joel's prophecy is to be fulfilled in the future Millennium. Joel said nothing about tongues being a sign of renewal. This age will end in apostasy and departure from the Faith, not in Joel's revival. KEY: “Afterward” in Joel 2:28 means that the Spirit will be poured on all flesh after Christ’s second coming, and not before. 9. Tongues is not a sign of the Baptism in the Holy Spirit. "For by one Spirit are we all baptised into one body." 1 Corinthians 12:13. i) All believers have the Holy Spirit Baptism. "If any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Romans 8:9. ii) All believers have the Holy Spirit, but few believers spoke in tongues. If we have received Jesus Christ as Saviour, we also have the Holy Spirit in us, because we cannot separate members of the Godhead. 10. Tongues were never intended to edify the speaker himself or the church. 1) "He that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort," 1 Corinthians 14:3. "For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." 1 Corinthians 14:31. The edification, exhortation, learning and comfort of the local church was always the responsibility of the one who prophesied (gave instruction in an understandable language). ii) "He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself," (1 Corinthians 14:4) does not teach that personal holiness is found in tongues speaking. On the contrary it describes the Corinthians selfishness who used tongues for personal pleasure and public display. Tongues speaking in a church does not instruct, edify, warn or strengthen believers. Holiness through tongues will always be shallow because it is based on feelings, not on Biblical edification. iii) Of all the tongues spoken today, new prophesies, new revelations and visions, not one iota of truth have been added to the inspired scriptures. 11. Tongues were never intended for prayer, praise or worship of God. "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the Spirit he speaketh mysteries." 1 Corinthians 14:2. God does not need to be spoken to in a foreign language. This verse teaches that the Corinthians were using the gift of tongues out of place. Tongues were meant to be spoken to men, that is to JEWS. A person praying or singing in tongues simply spoke "mysteries" in his own spirit. He received no real benefit, the hearers were not helped, and God was not glorified. Prayer and praise must be with understanding in the common language. "What is it then? I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also.....Else.....how shall.....the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks?" 1 Corinthians 14:15,16. This is not two different kinds of prayer, but two conditions of all prayer, praying in the leading of the Holy Spirit and with an understanding mind. If understanding is not present, hearers cannot say "Amen" to your prayer. 12. Tongues is not a sign of salvation. Assurance of salvation comes from faith in God’s Bible promises, not from any feelings of tongues. 13. Tongues is not a condition of keeping us saved. Pentecostalism, as a movement, does not believe in the eternal security of the believer who trusts in Christ alone for salvation. Many Charismatics think that their future preservation depends on continuing in the Charismatic experience. Many fear of grieving the Spirit and losing the power, and hence losing salvation. Some Charismatics do believe in the security of a believer in Christ. 14. Tongues are not a means of attaining holiness. The nine fruit of the Spirit in Galatians 5:22,23 have no relation to tongues. The Corinthians came behind in no gift (I Corinthians 1:7), yet Paul called them carnal and babes (1 Corinthians 3:1). True spirituality is not determined by one's experience, gift or feelings, but by inner godly character (e.g. 1 Peter 3:4, "a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price", for ladies.) It is right to be happy, joyful and to praise the Lord, but valuable character is better seen in times of testing, persecution, misunderstanding and suffering. 15. All spiritual gifts should exalt Christ, not the Holy Spirit. Many Charismatics exalt the Holy Spirit above Christ. The Holy Spirit seeks to exalt Christ (John 15:26; 16:14). Hence the mark of a Spirit filled believer is that in life and speech, he glorifies Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:3). “Christ shall be magnified in my body." Philippians 1:20; 3:8. All gifts are given so that we may grow to the "fullness of Christ." Ephesians 4:13. Charismatics use the earthly, human title "Jesus", as did demons. No disciple ever addressed the Lord as "Jesus", but as Lord, Christ or Master, or Lord Jesus Christ. Let us give Christ His full honour as the Lord Jesus Christ. 16. All gifts were given to produce church unity and harmony. All gifts were given that there be no schism in the body (1 Corinthians 12:25). Truth unites, error divides. The continual search for tongues, healing, prophecy, gifts etc., has split many churches, broken friendships and divided homes. The Charismatic Movement claims a new kind of unity not based on Bible doctrine, but on having the tongues experience. One can be a "spirit-filled" tongues speaker and believe almost anything. Many Christians who a few years ago opposed the heretical World Council of Churches, now cheerfully unite with Catholic Charismatic renewal, hence compromising essential Bible truths. 17. Tongues and all spiritual gifts were to promote order and peace. "God is not the author of confusion but of peace." 1 Corinthians 14:33. "Let all things be done decently and in order." 1 Corinthians 14:40. Church services should have one person speaking or praying at a time. In today's Charismatic meetings, there is much unrestrained noise, singing, clapping, shouting, tongues and dancing. 18. No Christian should surrender control of his mind and will. Paul insisted that tongues and prophecy speakers should retain control of their mind and understanding: "If there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church." 1 Corinthians 14:28. "The spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." 1 Corinthians 14:32. Famous Charismatic leader, Oral Roberts, instructs tongues speakers as follows: "We have to by-pass our mind and make it inactive for the moment. The mind slips into the background when we are praying in tongues and remains in a state of neutrality." [“Baptism With The Holy Spirit,” 1966, p. 42.] New Age occult seminars similarly tell people to blank out their minds to yield control to some higher force, which in reality is to demons. The New Testament never asks us to lay aside our sound mind, our self-control, our judgment or our reason, but to exercise these faculties in accordance with God's Word. Charismatics are told to overcome their inhibitions by by-passing their minds. People are brainwashed in cults like Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and the Charismatic Movement by surrendering their minds and wills to the group or leader. The danger for a believer who submits his mind without resistance to outside influences to receive tongues, is: a) He opens himself up to psychic and demonic deception and control. b) He can place himself beyond the protection of the Holy Spirit, by asking for things contrary to God's will. 19. The last days will be characterised by deception, signs, lying wonders and more demon activity Satan has always opposed believers and God's work. Satan opposes us as an angel of light (2 Cor. 11:14). The Corinthian believers were open to Satanic deception of another Jesus, another spirit, and another gospel (11:4) as Satan’s ministers come as ministers of righteousness (11:15). "There shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." (Matthew 24:24). In Old Testament times God permitted false prophets to work miracles in order to test His people. Two tests of false prophets are: a) If he performs signs to turn you away from the Lord. (Deuteronomy 13:1-5). b) If he speaks in the name of the Lord, but the prophecy does not come to pass. (Deut.18:20-22). Isaiah 8:19 describes familiar spirits that "peep and mutter", like tongues. Israel rejected the Word of God for more sensational dealings with the spirit world. Many see the Charismatic Movement as a Satanic deception permitted by God to test Christendom, and to pave the way for the Antichrist and the one world united Babylon religion of the last days. "Even him (Antichrist) whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness....." 2 Thessalonians 2: 9,10. "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:22,23). 20. Charismatics confuse Baptism in the Spirit (a once only experience at salvation -1 Cor. 12:13) with the filling of the Spirit (a continual daily experience for service obtained by confessing sin, prayer, and yielding to Christ. (Ephesians 5:18). 21. Doctrinal compromise. Ministers who deny fundamental Bible truths such as the virgin birth, verbal inspiration, creation, etc. are often warmly welcomed and accepted if they claim a Charismatic experience. Charismatics warmly accept Roman Catholic priests and people who continue to seek salvation through the sacraments, who still pray to Mary, and still celebrate the mass. Doctrinal errors are ignored to keep Charismatic unity. 22. Most Charismatics are not diligent students of Scripture. One can remain comfortable in his false beliefs as long as he refuses to face Biblical evidence to the contrary. One Australian Charismatic pastor could not find the book of Daniel in his Bible. He had to look up the table of contents. He thought Daniel was near Exodus. 23. Emphasis on Experience. Personal experience is a great enemy of truth. When confronted with a mass of Biblical evidence, most Charismatics typically reply: "I know I am right. I have experienced tongues or healing myself. I have seen a prophet make correct predictions. I have seen people healed. The Bible teachings must have another explanation." Tongues is mostly a learned behaviour. If you blank out your mind, anyone can say gibberish. Most healings are temporary and are achieved by hypnotherapy. What about the false predictions? These make him a false prophet. Studies show that most Charismatic healings revert back to the illness. Hypnotise a person, tell them they feel better, and they will feel better, for a time, but later they revert back to the illness. 24. New Revelations. Charismatics continually claim to receive extra-Biblical revelations from God by tongues, prophecy, visions and dreams. Cults and Catholicism also claim revelations outside the Bible. 25. Damage to the local church. Many Charismatics use a local church as a base for propaganda purposes to invite people to a home Bible study and prayer group governed by self-appointed spiritual leaders who instruct in tongues and try to heal people. A local church seems too confined, compared with many people from many churches coming together for a Charismatic rally. 26. Laxity and moral danger. Some Charismatics think that they have "arrived" spiritually. They often lack motivation to press on further. The goal has been attained. Time for relaxation has come. Such carelessness explains much worldliness, sin and a rock music party atmosphere among Charismatics. Some receive "revelations" to divorce their spouse and remarry another person. Truth and reason then take a back seat. 27. Move back to Rome. The Charismatic Movement reversed the decline of the Ecumenical Movement from 1960. It is not a threat to Rome. Both emphasise emotionalism, miracles, healing, and the lack of final Bible authority. Charismaticism is not true Protestantism because it is not solely based on the Bible.