KiwiChristian

Dec. 23rd - Westcott: "My faith is still wavering. I cannot determine how much we must believe; how much, in fact, is necessarily required of a member of the Church." (Life, Vol.I, p.46). 1847 Jan., 2nd Sunday after Epiphany - Westcott: "After leaving the monastery we shaped our course to a little oratory...It is very small, with one kneeling-place; and behind a screen was a 'Pieta' the size of life (i.e. a Virgin and dead Christ)...I could not help thinking on the grandeur of the Romish Church, on her zeal even in error, on her earnestness and self-devotion, which we might, with nobler views and a purer end, strive to imitate. Had I been alone I could have knelt there for hours." (Life, Vol.I, p.81). 1848 July 6th - Hort: "One of the things, I think, which shows the falsity of the Evangelical notion of this subject (baptism), is that it is so trim and precise...no deep spiritual truths of the Reason are thus logically harmonious and systematic...the pure Romish view seems to me nearer, and more likely to lead to, the truth than the Evangelical...the fanaticism of the bibliolaters, among whom reading so many 'chapters' seems exactly to correspond to the Romish superstition of telling so many dozen beads on a rosary...still we dare not forsake the Sacraments, or God will forsake us...I am inclined to think that no such state as 'Eden' (I mean the popular notion) ever existed, and that Adam's fall in no degree differed from the fall of each of his descendants" (Life, Vol.I, pp.76-78). 1860 Apr. 3rd - Hort: "But the book which has most engaged me is Darwin. Whatever may be thought of it, it is a book that one is proud to be contemporary with. I must work out and examine the argument in more detail, but at present my feeling is strong that the theory is unanswerable." (Life, Vol.I, p.416). 1865 Sept. 27th - Westcott: "I have been trying to recall my impressions of La Salette (a marian shrine). I wish I could see to what forgotten truth Mariolatry bears witness; and how we can practically set forth the teaching of the miracles". Nov. 17th - Westcott: "As far as I could judge, the 'idea' of La Salette was that of God revealing Himself now, and not in one form but in many." (Life, Vol.I. pp.251,252). Oct. 17th - Hort: "I have been persuaded for many years that Mary-worship and 'Jesus'-worship have very much in common in their causes and their results." (Life, Vol.II, p.50). 1867 Oct. 17th - Hort: "I wish we were more agreed on the doctrinal part; but you know I am a staunch sacerdotalist, and there is not much profit in arguing about first principles." (Life, Vol.II, p.86). 1890 Mar. 4th - Westcott: "No one now, I suppose, holds that the first three chapters of Genesis, for example, give a literal history - I could never understand how any one reading them with open eyes could think they did - yet they disclose to us a Gospel. So it is probably elsewhere."

HELL In the New Testament, 162 passages speak about unrepentant people going to hell, and 70 of these were described by Jesus, as he warned people to avoid it. When the unsaved die, they go immediately to hell. Later, at the end of Christ's 1,000 year reign on earth, the unsaved will leave hell, receive their resurrected bodies, go to the Great White Throne Judgment and will then be cast into the Lake of Fire, where they remain forever (Revelation 20:11-15). I. FOUR BIBLE WORDS THAT DESCRIBE HELL: 1. GEHENNA1067 referred to the continually burning rubbish dump on the south west side of Jerusalem, known as the valley of the sons of Hinnom (or Tophet). Jesus used the word "Gehenna" to describe the place of everlasting punishment because hell is a place of filth and stink, a place of smoke and pain, a place of everlasting fire and suffering. This garbage dump was likened to hell. It is used as a name for the place of everlasting punishment of the lost. It occurs twelve times in the New Testament. It is the ultimate hell of fire. It is the same as the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14,15). Matthew 5:22 “whosoever shall say, “Thou fool”, shall be in danger of hell fire” (gehenna of the fire). Matthew 5:29 “And if thy right eye offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna). Matthew 5:30 “And if thy right hand offend thee ... and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell” (gehenna). Matthew 10:28 “...fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell” (gehenna). Matthew 18:9 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (gehenna). Matthew 23:15 “Pharisees, ... ye make him twofold more the child of hell (gehenna) than yourselves.” Matthew 23:33 “Ye serpents,... how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (gehenna). Mark 9:43 “And if thy hand offend thee, ... two hands to go into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:45 “And if thy foot offend thee, ... two feet to be cast into hell (gehenna), into the fire that never shall be quenched.” Mark 9:47 “And if thine eye offend thee, ... two eyes to be cast into hell fire” (gehenna of fire). Luke 12:5 “Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell” (gehenna). James 3:6 “the tongue is ... set on fire of hell” (set on fire by gehenna). 2. HADES86 is the intermediate state between death and the ultimate hell (gehenna), the Lake of Fire. It is where unsaved departed spirits reside. Luke 16:23. Hades never denotes the physical grave, nor is it the permanent region of the lost. Hades occurs 10 times in the New Testament, and Sheol, the Old Testament equivalent occurs 59 times. Hades is associated with privation, detention and just punishment of the unsaved dead. Matthew 11:23 “Thou, Capernaum...shalt be brought down to hell” (hades). Luke 10:15 Hades here expresses Capernaum's absolute overthrow, from pride to humiliation. Matthew 16:18 “The gates of hell (hades) shall not prevail against it” (the churches’ attack). Luke 16:19-31 “And in hell (hades) he lifted up his eyes, being in torments931 (punishment)” v.23. Hades here has two compartments, close to each other, yet different. Acts 2:27 “Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell (hades).” Acts 2:31 “That his (Christ's) soul was not left in hell (hades).” Christ here descended into the underworld of the departed (Ephesians 4:9,10), to take the believers in it (eg: thief on the cross) up to heaven. Believers now go to heaven at death, while unbelievers still go to hades at death, a place of punishment. Revelation 1:18 “I (Christ) ... have the keys of hell (hades) and of death.” Revelation 6:8 “a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and hell (hades) followed with him.” Hades here is personified as the temporary destiny of the unsaved. Revelation 20:13 “death and hell (hades) delivered up the dead which were in them.” Revelation 20:14 “death and hell (hades) were cast into the lake of fire.” Note: Fire is used 27 times in the New Testament to describe the after-death punishment of unbelievers and of demons. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 “In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Matthew 13:42, 50 “And shall cast them into a furnace of fire.” Matthew 5:22; 18:9; Mark 9:43,45,47 “cast into fire unquenchable, hell fire.” Isaiah 66:24 “... look upon the carcasses of the men that have transgressed against me, for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched.” Mark9:44,46,48. Isaiah 33:14 “Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? Who among us shall dwell with the everlasting burnings?” Matthew 18:8 “Two hands or two feet be cast into everlasting fire.” Matthew 25:41 “Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Jude 7 “Sodom and Gomorrha ... an example suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.” (Literally: of fire eternal, the penalty undergoing). Revelation 19:20 “Beast, .. false prophet, ... and them that worshipped his image. These were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.” Revelation 20:10 “the devil ... shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever” (for the ages of the ages). Revelation 20:14,15 and Rev. 21:8 “death and hell were cast into the lake of fire.” Revelation 14:10,11 “tormented with fire and brimstone ... the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever (for ages of ages), and they have no rest (respite) day nor night...” 3. SHEOL7585 is hades of the Old Testament. In Hebrew, it means the depth, abyss, pit, world of the dead, underworld. It occurs 66 times in the Old Testament (grave 31 times, hell 30 times, pit 3 times). Though all Old Testament people went to the grave, the souls of some will receive punishment in sheol. Numbers 16:30 “Korah, Dathan and Abiram went down into the pit.” Psalm 9:17 “The wicked shall be turned into hell (sheol).” 4. TARTARUS5020 is the deepest abyss of Hades; a place where evil angels are imprisoned in torment, awaiting judgment and everlasting punishment. 2 Peter 2:4 is its only reference in the Bible. “If God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell (tartarus), and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment.” II. WHAT IS HELL (GEHENNA and HADES) LIKE? 1. UNQUENCHABLE FIRE: “He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” Matthew 3:12. Hell “fire” is real “fire” because the same Greek word (pur) for fire is used for both. “It rained fire and brimstone...” Matthew 17:15 and Luke 17:29. The rich man in hades said: “I am tormented in this flame.” Luke 16:24. 2. MEMORY AND REGRET. Abraham said to the rich man in hades “remember” in Luke 16:25. Lost people will remember their sins and the times that they rejected the Holy Spirit convicting them of their sins and their need for Jesus Christ to be their Saviour. They will remember how Christians told them the plan of salvation. 3. THIRST. The rich man in hell begged Abraham to “send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue” (Luke 16:24), yet this was refused. Imagine going without water for one day, let alone for eternity without water. Jesus Christ offers in John 7:37, “If any man thirst, let him come unto me and drink.” 4. SEPARATION. People in hell will experience a “great gulf” (Luke 16:26) between them and God. They took all the good things of life for granted when they were on earth. They will be forever separated from all the good gifts of God. Many unbelievers joke that “I won't be lonely in hell, as all my friends will be there.” Friendship means nothing under everlasting torment. 5. INJUSTICE AND FILTHINESS OF SIN are in hell. Revelation 22:11. “He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy let him be filthy still.” No one likes people treating them unjustly, nor do people like being abused in a filthy manner. The unsaved will experience these conditions forever in hell. 6. HOPELESSNESS FOR ALL ETERNITY. Hell is the everlasting dwelling place of the unsaved. Sooner or later they will realise that they are in hell to stay there forever, with no escape. In Luke 16:26, Abraham told the rich man in hell: “They which would pass from here to you cannot; neither can they pass to us.” 7. STINK OF SULPHUR. “But the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone (sulphur); which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8. 8. EYESIGHT, HEARING, TOUCH, TASTE AND SMELL are senses that people possess in hell. The rich man in Luke 16:19-31 could “see” Abraham, “hear” his voice, “touch” the flames, desire to “taste” water, and “smell” the sulphur. Revelation 21:8. 9. THE DEVIL and DEMON ANGELS will accompany the Christ rejecters forever. 10. UNSATISFIED DESIRES. Both of the rich man's requests were denied in Luke 16:19-31. He requested a drop of water to cool his tongue, and for Lazarus to return to tell his five unsaved brothers how to be saved and avoid hell. Both requests were denied. How many times a day do you want something and get it? In hell, no one ever gets what they want. 11. PLACE OF WORMS. “Where their worm dieth not...” Mark 9:44,46,48. Worm means maggot. If the maggots do not die, and the people own the maggots, then neither do the people die or get annihilated in hell. 12. TORMENT and PUNISHMENT. “In hell, he lift up his eyes being in torments.” Luke 16:23. 13. SHAME and HATRED. “Many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” Daniel 12:2. People suffering in hell will get a resurrection body. They will be judged, and sent to the lake of fire in shame at their sins. They will experience everlasting contempt, hating their situation forever. 14. DEGREES OF PUNISHMENT IN HELL. “It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgement, than for that city.” Mark 6:11. Those who reject Christ most often, will receive greater punishment. Matthew 10:15. 15. WEEPING, WAILING, GNASHING OF TEETH. “So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 8:12 and 13:49,50. People who today are arrogant, proud Christ-rejecters will be wailing and gnashing their teeth in hell. 16. HADES IS IN THE EARTH. Amos 9:2 “though they dig into hell ...”, Isaiah 14:9 “hell from beneath”, Ephesians 4:9 “descended into lower parts of earth”, Numbers 16:33 “they went down alive into the pit”, Psalm 63:9 “those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.” 17. HELL IS ORIGINALLY PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS “Depart from me, ye cursed into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels.” Matthew 25:41. How does one get to hell? By neglecting to receive Christ as Saviour. Hebrews 2:3 “How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation?” How does one avoid hell? By receiving Christ as their Saviour. John 1:12. Christians should work harder to rescue people from hell, and seek to build their church to better achieve this task, both at home and overseas. Question 1: Does “hell” mean “grave” where good and bad must go? Answer: No, because in Luke 16:19-31 both men went to the grave, but the soul of Lazarus was comforted, and the soul of the rich man was tormented. Question 2: How can a loving God send people to hell? Answer: People send themselves to hell by rejecting Christ. God is loving in sending Christ to die for our sins, but God is just in punishing sin. III. JESUS' STORY OF THE RICH MAN AND LAZARUS in Luke 16:19-31. An unbelieving rich man who had abundant material possessions and food in this life, died and went to hell. A believing poor man named Lazarus who had nothing in this life but sickness and poverty, died and was carried by the angels into the comfort of paradise. The suffering rich man in hell made two requests of Abraham in paradise: i) To send Lazarus to put one drop of water on his tongue to relieve his suffering. The rich man, who refused to show mercy to Lazarus in need, now begged that Lazarus might show mercy to him in his need (v.24). The rich man declares the greatness of his torment saying: “I am in torment (agony) in this fire (or flame).” v.24. Lesson: Material things have only temporary, not eternal value. Luke 16:25. Abraham responded by calling him “son”. This means that he was a son of Abraham by flesh, not by faith. The rich man trusted his wealth and his physical descent from Abraham for his salvation. Christ showed that neither reason was sufficient for salvation. At death, one's eternal destiny is settled. "Between us and you there is a great gulf fixed" (v.26). The rich man could remember his false confidence in wealth, and his wrong devotion to it. This story refutes "soul-sleep", because the rich man and Lazarus were conscious, one enjoying comfort, and the other suffering torment. Note: Hades had two sections: paradise and hell punishment. Jesus emptied the paradise section when He rose from the dead and took the Old Testament believers’ souls to heaven. Eph. 4:8-10; John 20:17. “Torment” is used four times and means sorrow and grief. Abraham gave two reasons why Lazarus could not comfort the rich man: a) The rich man had received his reward (Matthew 6:2,5,16), and he had left God out of his life. b)The great gulf separated them. ii) To send Lazarus back to warn his five brothers. Luke 16:27-31. The rich man did not say: “I'm glad my brothers will come here, we'll have a wonderful time together.” People sometimes say: "I want to go to hell. All my friends will be there." Answer: There is no friendship in hell. Hell is a place of torment and loneliness. Lesson: People in hell have a concern for the lost, but they cannot do anything about it, BUT WE CAN! What are you doing? v.29-31: Abraham said that the only thing that could prevent his five brothers from coming to hell was: Hearing the Word of God, and responding to it by faith in Christ as Saviour. A man named Lazarus did come back from the dead, and some of the Pharisees wanted to kill him (John 11:43-57; 12:10). God had spoken many times to the rich man while on earth: 1. God permitted him to have riches, but not attributing his riches to God’s goodness, he did not repent. “The goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance.” Romans 2:4-5. 2. Lazarus would have witnessed to him, but his pride rejected Lazarus’ message. 3. Old Testament scriptures spoke to him. 4. Lazarus dying first, should have reminded him how he would also die. In hell he was still self-centred, praying for his comfort and for the safety of his family. He was not concerned about other lost sinners. C.S. Lewis says: “The safest road to hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts.” Lessons from the rich man and Lazarus: 1. The souls of men do not die with their bodies. 2. The souls of men are conscious after death, not asleep until resurrected. 3. The righteous at death are taken immediately to a place of happiness and the wicked are sent to a place of misery and torment. 4. Wealth does not protect us from death. 5. We should not envy the rich, as riches can blind us to the reality of eternity. 6. We should seek a better inheritance than this life can give. 7. The sufferings of the wicked in hell will be indescribably great of torment, burning flame, and insatiable thirst, forever. 8. Hell is a place of suffering beyond the grave. If not, this story has no meaning. 9. There will never be any escape from hell. The gulf is fixed. 10. God warns us to prepare for death through: His Word. His Holy Spirit pleading with sinners. His servants. His goodness leading us to repentance. Pleadings of friends. Heaven. If all that would not move sinners, then what would? He threatens hell. 11. God will give us nothing more to warn us. No dead man will return to tell us what he has seen. If he did, no one would believe him. If you will not hear Christ or the Bible, there is nothing you will hear. You will never be persuaded, and you will never escape the place of torment. 12. We see the amazing folly of those wanting to go to hell. They have been deceived. IV. THE IMPLICATIONS OF HELL FOR US TODAY 1. Soul winning is important. When people get angry at a preacher preaching on soul winning, they are doing the devil's work. 2. We need to become fishers of men. Matthew 4:19. 3. If we are busy pulling souls out of the fire, we will not waste our time fighting other Christians. We will seek to maintain unity in our church. 4. We see our Church as of great importance in rescuing people from hell. Rescuing people from hell is a major purpose of churches. 5. Hell focuses our attention on eternity, taking our attention off petty present things like latest worldly fashions which pale into insignificance in the light of lost people going to an eternal hell. 6. Hell makes us train workers to be soul winners. 7. It gives us a love for people to win to Christ and to train in the Bible. 8. It makes us use our time wisely so that all we do helps in some way to rescue people from hell. 9. Hell makes us mission minded so that we try to win lost people to Christ overseas. For example, Roman Catholics in Africa grew from 52 million in 1980 to 92 million in 1993. 10. Hell and eternal judgment is the sixth principle of the Doctrine of Christ, so it must be emphasised in our doctrinal teaching. “the foundation of ……eternal judgment.” Hebrews 6:1,2. 11. Hell will give us a better testimony as Christians. If we sin, people will go to hell. 12. Hell will stop us backsliding because we will realise that our job is important to accomplish in rescuing people from hell. “For what shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and lose his own soul?” Mark 8:36. What is your answer to this question? Conclusion Are you really saved? Have you received Jesus Christ as your Saviour, trusting Him alone to save you, not your religion or your good works? If you are saved, then what are you doing to tell people how Jesus Christ can save them from hell?

Then you are calling Jesus a liar and are limiting God. Rubbish. It IS shown in the Bible. According to YOUR understanding of many verses. http://www.bugman123.com/Bible/JesusIsGod.html Whoa. Hang on a minute. I dont think ANY Christian bases anything upon ONE verses. See the above link. Saves me typing them out myself. Wrong. He already HAD the power. He did not need to be GIVEN this power. I think ALL have their detractors and "anti" people, but like i said, you have to chew the meat and spit out the bones. James White is great debating catholics and muslims, Bob Morey is great on islam, catholicism and mormonism. Gail Riplinger is great on Bible versions. Larry Wessels is a good all-rounder, Kent Hovind is great on the evolution lie/religion. The words are there for a reason. For the very few "archaic" words, google is your friend. I think people use the language as an excuse to reject the KJV. I cannot really use other translations and compare or check with the KJV since they were not translated from the same source. Yes, God did raise Jesus. God is Jesus. God is the Holy Spirit. God is God the father. All three raised Jesus. 1 Cor. 6:14 "And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power." John 2:19,20 "Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days." The Jews replied, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?" But the temple he had spoken of was his body."" 1 Peter 3:18 "For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit." There is ZERO scriptural evidence for this, though. False presupposition in the first few words. For want of a better phrase, the TRINITY raised Jesus. Old testament saints may indeed have been in the ground until Jesus entered heaven. Actually, come to think of it, they were in a place called "Abraham's Bosom" or "paradise" i believe. It sounds as you are a "soul sleep" advocate. This is not Biblical when studied properly. I will attach a pdf that explains it better than i can. 97. THE ERROR OF SOUL SLEEP.pdf

Hello, my friend. True. I also cannot understand it. Like i said to four mormons in my living room once, if we could understand HOW God IS God, we would BE God. Their response? "well, we hope to be one day". Good on you. Like i said, either Jesus WAS God and DID indeed raise Himself up, or He lied or was delusional. I prefer to take what the text says. The text says all three people of the "Trinity" raised Jesus. That's fine. You can believe what you want. I believe it was to show Jesus is God and has power/control over life and death. I also enjoy studying from many different sources. I enjoy a wide range of people. I wouldn't say i "follow" any particular person, as no person is right on everything. You have to eat the meat and spit out the bones. People i like are Kent Hovind, Robert Morey, Larry Wessels, James White, Jack Hyles, Gail Riplinger, Sandra Tanner, etc. Sorry, you are right. i was a hypocrite. I think it is obvious i am one of those horrible, KJV people and i think the modern versions are good translations, but of the wrong and corrupted text. Where do you get this from the Bible? Book, chapter and verse, please. Sure, His BODY was dead. Remember, WE are a trinity in a way. We are body, spirit and soul. Check out the "triple point of water". Now, if God can make something as simple as H2O exist as water, solid AND vapor AT THE SAME TIME, surely He can do the same to/for Himself.

No problems.

If you mean that sometimes God is the father, other times He is the son, etc. then absolutely not. I believe that the Bible says that God the father is God, the Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference Revelation 1:17 and that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11. The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15, NEHEMIAH 9:6, PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ), PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5. Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God. We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us thats the way it is.

He was fully man and fully God. So, are you saying Jesus lied in John 2:19 when He said "Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." ? Unless of course that Jesus is God. Your false presupposition that Jesus is NOT God handicaps you. Again, Jesus said He would raise Himself. So either He did raise Himself or He lied. Of course Jesus was a man. He was also God. Just because you cant understand it, does not negate the fact that Jesus was fully God and fully man. According to your interpretation. Some people simply cannot be satisfied. Just because they do not understand something, does not negate anything. It's very easy to get sucked into a closed-minded type of attitude. The JW and mormon cults are not allowed to read ANYTHING that doesn't come from their own organisation. I havent fully read this article, but initial glances look sound. https://www.blueletterbible.org/faq/don_stewart/don_stewart_1350.cfm

I use this passage on JW's. Jesus raised Himself up because He is God.

Didnt think so. Dont confuse me with the facts, my mind is already made up, huh.

do you really want me to answer your questions?

Again: The Bible is not a book but a collection of 66 books, written over a span of 1600 years across 3 continents, by over 40 writers inspired by God in 3 languages yet it has ONE primary theme ( The Glory of God and salvation of mankind ) and zero errors or contradictions. Ignore the word "trinity". its not important. God is everlasting, eternal, without beginning or end. God is unchanging, infinite, omnipresence, omniscient , self-existent, self-sufficient, immaterial and omnipotent There is only ONE God. God Himself says He knows of NO OTHER GOD and if He is all-knowing, He would know if there was any other Gods. The Bible says that God the father is God. The Bible says that Jesus is God. John 8:58, John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8, Isaiah 44:6 ( crossreference Revelation 1:17 ) The Bible says that the Holy Spirit is God. Acts 5:3,4. Romans 8:11 The Bible also says there is ONE God. DEUTERONOMY 6:4, DEUTERONOMY 4:35,39, DEUTERONOMY 32:39, 2 SAMUEL 7:22, 1 KINGS 8:60, 2 KINGS 5:15 , 2 KINGS 19:15, NEHEMIAH 9:6, PSALM 18:31 ( Which also states Jesus is God ), PSALM 86:1, ISAIAH 37:16,20, ISAIAH 43:10,11, ISAIAH 44:6,8, ISAIAH 45:21, ISAIAH 46:9, HOSEA 13:4, MARK 12:29-34, ROMANS 3:30, 1 CORINTHIANS 8:4-6, 1 TIMOTHY 2:5. Therefore, somehow, these three entities constitute the one, eternal, everlasting God. We are not told HOW God is God, that is not important. God just tells us thats the way it is.

Amen. These people that deny that Jesus is the I AM will die in their sins and end up in hell.

What texts or manuscripts did tyndale use? ego eimi is I AM

Trinitarian bias? Then ALL transators of ALL Bibles are trinitarians. Tell me, what translation do YOU use? Ignore the word "trinity". its not important. The Bible clearly shows that there are three "beings" that are referred to as "God" ( deity ). Thats good enough for me.

Than you for your reply, trevor. And for being polite. With all due respect, you are wrong. John 10:30-36 shows that the jews knew full well what Jesus was claiming. Timothy cried out "My Lord and my God" Yes, other people ARE referred to as "god" meaning judges, but never "God" as in deity.

Thank you.

Did Jesus really say He was God? That’s exactly how Jesus’ original audience seemed to take it when He said, “I and the Father are one.” In fact, the Jews were ready to kill Him right there! Why? “Because you,” they said, “a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). On another occasion, He used the personal name of Israel’s God–the name revealed to Moses (Exodus 3:14)–to refer to Himself. And He even used the Torah for context, so no one would misunderstand Him: “Before Abraham was, I AM” (John 8:58). This would be about wild as telling a Muslim, “I am your God, Allah.” Don’t try that in Saudi Arabia! It’s no wonder the Jews tried to stone Him to death. That was the exact penalty for blasphemy under the Jewish legal system. It was pretty clear to everyone there that He was saying, “I am Israel’s God.” Why Jesus is God? The Apostle Thomas called Jesus God.John 20:27-29: 2. The Apostle Peter called Jesus God.2 Peter 1:1: 3.The Apostle John called Jesus God.John 1:1-3, 4.God the Father called Jesus God.Hebrews 1:8: 5. God the Father called Jesus God. 6.Isaiah the Prophet said the Messiah would be God.Isaiah 9:67. The Jews who crucified Jesus understood Him to be saying that He was equal with God.John 5:18: 8.Jesus called Himself "I AM", the Old Testament name for God (Exodus 3:14).John 8:58-59. 9.Jesus calls Himself "the Alpha and Omega," the title of Almighty God.Revelation 22:12-13. 10. Like God (Gen. 1:1) Jesus created. Colossians 1:16-1711. Like God, Jesus forgives sin.Mark 2:5-7, 10-11:12. Like God, Jesus gives eternal life.John 10:27-28: 13. Like God, Jesus received, receives and will receive worship.Matthew 14:32-33. 14. Jesus said that only God was good; and Jesus was good. John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."John 10:11: "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep."Jesus was as good as they come. He was "sinless," "holy," "righteous," "innocent," "undefiled," and "separate from sinners." (Hebrews 7:26) That's pretty good! 15. Like God, Jesus can be present in more than one place at the same time.Matthew 18:20: 16. One of Jesus' titles is "God with us."Matthew 1:23. 17. Jesus' blood is called God's blood.Acts 20:28: 18. Jesus has the same nature as God.Hebrews 1:3a: 19. Jesus spoke as God.Jesus did not speak as one of God's prophets: "thus says the Lord," but as God: "I say to you."Matthew 5:27-29. 20. Like God (Psalm 136:3), Jesus is called the Lord of Lords and King of kings.Revelation 17:14. And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. ( WHEN WAS GOD PIERCED? ). And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel (means God Among Us). John 1:1 "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος ", "En archē ēn ho Logos kai ho Logos ēn pros ton Theon kai Theos ēn ho Logos", "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word" John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 8:58 "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am." Crossreference with Exodus 3:14 "And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you." John 10:33 "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God." Collossians 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: " Matthew 4:10 "Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve." Crossreference with Matthew 2:2, Matthew 2:11, Matthew 28:9. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Crossreference with Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he." and Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."

Yes, the KJV added the word "he". Your explanation for this is just your assumption or your opinion.The KJV translated CERTAINLY knew and believed that Jesus is God. The phrase "I will be" is the ridiculous JW claim which is totally false. The correct original is "μὴ πιστεύσητε ὅτι egō ἐγώ" which shows that divine name. No, it does not mean that. Also, you forget the many other passages like John 20:28, Zechariah 12:10 ( when was God pierced? ),

Is Jesus the I AM?

Who is the Son of God? Bible Reading: John 1:1-14; Exodus 19:1-20; “Not that any man has seen the Father” John 6:46. Aim: To know Who the Son of God is. If no man has seen the Father, Who did OT saints see as Jehovah? Introduction: One of the most interesting subjects in the Bible is the Son of God. The New Testament teaches us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God (100% God) and the Son of man (100% man). The Old Testament describes Jehovah God going out from heaven (Micah 5:2), coming down to earth (Exodus 3:8) and visiting people (Exodus 3:16) to comfort, instruct, protect and judge evil. The Son of God is the part of God that interacts with the physical universe (as a screen monitor interfaces between a hard drive and man) (Micah 5:2). The Son of God is not a sexual Son (Gk: Teknon), but a same nature Son (Gk: Huios). I. How is the Son of God (Who became Jesus Christ) Described in the Bible? 1. The Finger of God, in miracle power. “If I with the finger of God cast out devils,” Luke 11:20; Ex 8:19 2. The Arm of Jehovah, strong in power. “to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?” Isaiah 53:1; Jo 12:38 3. The Hand of Jehovah. ‘the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?’ Job 12:9; Ezek 37:1; Prov. 21:1; Dan.5:5 4. The Face of God & the Name of God. ‘they shall see his face; his name shall be in their foreheads’Rev22:4 5. The Feet of Jehovah at His return. “his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives” Zech 14:4 6. The Lamb of God, our Saviour. ‘Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world’1: 29 7. The Word of God. “the word of the LORD came unto Abram” (Gen. 15:1). “the Word was God” Jo 1:1 “The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” John 1:14. 8. The Son of God, the full nature of God. “I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.” John 1:34 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. Jo1:49 They that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. Mat 14:33 When the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. Matthew 27:54. Nebuchadnezzar saw the Son of God in the fire. ‘the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.’ Daniel 3:25 The angel said to her “that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”Lk. 1:35 9. Creator. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.John 1:3 10. The Image of the invisible God. Colossians1:15. Image is profile, exact representation (Gk:1504). 11. All the Fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9. 12. The Life giver. “In him was life; and the life was the light of men.” John 1:4 13. The True Light which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. John 1:9 14. The likeness of a man on the throne (Ezekiel 1:26) was the God of Israel (Ezekiel 10:20). 15. The One whose Goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Micah 5:2. The Goer out. 16. The Angel of Jehovah. Exodus 3:1-4. ‘The angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire.’ 17. The Son of God appeared in the Old Testament as a man, as the Angel of Jehovah, as a fire and cloud. 18. The Fire of God. The Son of God appeared as a fire to: i) Abraham “When the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram” Gen.15:17,18 ii) Moses “the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush” Ex 3:2 iii) Israel leaving Egypt. “The LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night.” Exodus 13:21 iv) A wall of fire to protect Israel from Pharaoh’s army. “the LORD looked unto the host of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and of the cloud, and troubled the host of the Egyptians.” Exodus 14:19,20,24 v) Israel at Mt Sinai before giving them the ten commandments. Exodus 19:16-20 “mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.” (Ex 19:18). vi) Israel on the Tabernacle. “sight of the glory of LORD was like devouring fire..” Exodus 24:9-17-18. vii) Consuming the Burnt offering. Leviticus 9:23,24. (Numbers 16:1-3,30-35 viii) To consume 250 famous men who supported Korah, Dathan and Abiram to rebel against Moses. ix) God promised to speak to Israel not by fire, but by Prophet Jesus Christ. Deut. 18:15-18. John 5:46. Conclusion: ‘He that believeth on the Son has everlasting life: he that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abides on him.’ John 3:36. The Huios appearing in OT was conceived as Jesus.

No Man Cared For My Soul (Psalm 142:4) Bible Reading: Psalm 142; 145 Aim: To know that God always cares for us and that we should care for others by our actions. Introduction: Have you ever said or thought that no one cares about you? David said this when he was fleeing from Saul and hiding in a cave. If we have felt the pain of nobody caring for us, then we should show others that we really care for them, love them and make sacrifices to help solve their problems. Question: How much do you really care for others? Do you ask others how you can help them? I. Who in the Bible really cared for others and helped others? 1. Nehemiah. ‘When Sanballat the Horonite, and Tobiah the servant, the Ammonite, heard of it, it grieved them exceedingly that there was come a man to seek the welfare of the children of Israel.’ Nehemiah 2:10. 2. Timothy. ‘For I have no man likeminded, who will naturally care for your state. For all seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ’s.’ Philippians 2:19-21. 3. The Good Samaritan. Luke 10:25-37. 4. Jesus Christ. ‘who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil’ Acts 10:38 5. God as shown by His many great character qualities. These are examples for us to follow. II. Who did Jesus Christ Show Care For? Nicodemus, Woman at well, Woman taken in adultery, thief on cross, bleeding woman, children, nations. III. How Does God Show His Care for us? Do we show these qualities to others? God is: 1. Gentle. ‘thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.’ Psalm 18:35. 2. Our Keeper and Preserver. ‘The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand. The LORD shall preserve thy going out & thy coming in from this time forth, & even for evermore.’ Ps 121:5,8 3. Around us. ‘the LORD is round about his people from henceforth even for ever.’ Psalm 125:2. 4. Builds our house. ‘Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it.’ Psalm 127:2. 5. Perfects that which concerns me. ‘The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me.’ Psalm 138:8. 6. Knows all about me. ‘Thou knowest my downsitting & mine uprising, art acquainted with all my ways.’ 139:2,3 7. Shows Bounty (treat well, repay toil, reward, ripen). ‘thou shalt deal bountifully with me.’ Psalm 142:7 8. My goodness, deliverer. ‘My goodness, my fortress; my high tower, my deliverer; my shield.’ Ps.144:2 9. Full of compassion (deep feeling of pity for the suffering of another, help, support, show mercy). ‘The LORD is gracious, and full of compassion; slow to anger, and of great mercy.’ Psalm 145:8. 10. Slow to anger. 11. Tender mercy. ‘The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.’ Psalm 145:9 12. Upholds the fallen. ‘The LORD upholdeth all that fall, & raiseth up all those that be bowed down.’ 14 13. Satisfies us. ‘Thou openest thine hand, and satisfiest the desire of every living thing.’ Psalm 145:16. 14. Righteous and holy. ‘The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.’ Psalm 145:17 15. Near us. ‘The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth.’ 145:18 16. Fulfils our desires. ‘He will fulfil the desire of them that fear him:’ Psalm 145:19 17. Hears our cry and saves us. ‘he also will hear their cry, and will save them.’ Psalm 145:19. 18. Preserves us. ‘The LORD preserveth all them that love him:’ Ps 145:20. ‘preserveth strangers’ 146:9 19. Frees prisoners. ‘The LORD looseth the prisoners.’ 146:7 20. Loves the righteous. ‘the LORD loveth the righteous.’ Psalm 146:8. 21. Heals the brokenhearted. ‘He healeth the broken in heart, and bindeth up their wounds.’ Psalm 147:3 22. Lifts up the meek. ‘The LORD lifteth up the meek:’ Psalm 147:6. 23. Makes peace. ‘He maketh peace in thy borders, & filleth thee with the finest of the wheat.’ Ps 147:14 IV. How can we Show Care for Others? 1. Learn how to lead them to Christ. ‘Follow me, and I will make you fishers of men.’ Matthew 4:19. 2. Come to church. ‘let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.’ Hebrews 10:24,25. 3. Learn how to speak encouraging words. ‘The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary:’ Isaiah 50:4. 4. Help solve problems. ‘Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.’ Galatians 6:2. 5. Giving to Church and missions. Conclusion: Let us show others that someone cares for their soul, such as Jesus Christ and Christians.

Eleven Old Testament Prophets teach that Jesus Christ is Jehovah God on 16 Occasions 1. Moses: The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob Who appeared to Moses at the burning bush revealed His Name as ‘I AM’ (Exodus 3:14,15). Jesus revealed that He was the true God by stating that ‘Before Abraham was, I AM’, and ‘If ye believe not that I am, ye shall die in your sins.’ (John 8:58,24). 2. David: God told David that David’s son would be David’s God. ‘The LORD (Jehovah) said unto my Lord (Adonai), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.’ (Psalm 110:1). Jesus applied this to Himself in Matthew 22:41-45 as a question: ‘If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?’ This shows that Jesus Christ would be both a man descended from David and David’s God. 3. Solomon: God has a son. ‘What is his name, and what is his son’s name?’ (Proverbs 30:4). 4. Isaiah: a) The Mighty God would be both man and God the Son. ‘For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: ..And his name shall be called …the Mighty God…’ (Isaiah 9:6). b) God the Son who created the heavens and the earth, would be sent to earth by Jehovah the Father and by God the Holy Spirit to save man. (Isaiah 48:12,13,16). c) Isaiah saw the King, Jehovah of hosts on the throne in heaven, who asked Isaiah ‘who will go for us?’ (Isaiah 6:1-8,5). (‘us’=trinity). In John 12:37-41, John said of Jesus, ‘These things said Esaias when he saw his (Jesus) glory, and spake of him (Jesus).’ Jesus was the King, Jehovah of hosts that Isaiah saw. 5. Jeremiah: ‘Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch (Jesus’ humanity), and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth. In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD (Jehovah) OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS (Jesus’ Deity).’ (Jeremiah 23:5,6). 6. Ezekiel: Ezekiel prophesied that the east gate of Jerusalem will be shut, as it is today, ‘because the LORD (Jehovah), the God of Israel, has entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.’ (Ezekiel 44:1,2). Question: When did Jehovah, the God of Israel enter the east gate of Jerusalem? It was when Jesus Christ entered it on Palm Sunday before His crucifixion in Luke 19:28-48. He rode a donkey from the Mount of Olives through the east gate into the temple situated just behind it. This proves that Jesus is God. 7. Daniel: a) When King Nebuchadnezzar threw the 3 Hebrew men into the furnace, he saw a fourth person walking in the furnace and protecting them, who was identified as the Son of God (Daniel 3:25). b) The Son of man (Christ) came to the Ancient of days (God the Father) to receive the kingdom (7:9-14). 8. Hosea: Jehovah will return to ‘my place’ (heaven), till the Jews admit their offence of killing Jesus. ‘Hear the word of the LORD (Jehovah) (4:1),.I will go and return to my place (heaven), till they (Jews) acknowledge their offence (of killing Jesus), and seek my face: in their affliction (7 year tribulation) they (Jews) will seek me early.’ Jehovah the Son came from heaven to be born of Mary as a man, he was rejected and crucified by the Jews. The resurrected Lord Jesus returned to heaven. Jesus will only return when the Jews acknowledge their offence of killing Jesus. This occurs after the 7 year tribulation. 9. Micah: Micah prophesied that the eternal second member of the trinity would be born as a human baby in Bethlehem in Micah 5:2, ‘But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he (Jesus Christ, God the Son) come forth unto me (God the Father) that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting’. 10. Zechariah: a) ‘Thus saith the LORD (Jehovah) my God; (v.4). If ye think good, give me my price; So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver (v.12)….I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD’ (Zechariah 11:4,12,13). These three prophecies were fulfilled in Judas betraying Jesus Christ in Matthew 26:14-16 and 27:3-10. b) When Jesus Christ returns to earth, He is identified as Jehovah God whom Israel pierced on the cross. ‘I (Jehovah) will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem,...they (Israel) shall look upon me (Jehovah) whom they have pierced’ (Zechariah 12:9-10). Jesus fulfilled this in John 19:37. c) When Jesus Christ returns to earth on the Mount of Olives, He is identified as Jehovah God (Zech 14). ‘Then shall the LORD (Jehovah) go forth and fight against those nations,…And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives (v.3-4)....the LORD (Jehovah) my God shall come, and all the saints with thee (v.5)….the LORD (Jehovah) shall be king over all the earth …’ (Zechariah 14:3,4,5,9). When Jesus ascended to heaven from the Mount of Olives, two angels told those witnesses present that ‘this same Jesus shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.’ (Acts 1:10-11). 11. Malachi: Malachi wrote of ‘the Lord (Adonai, God) whom you seek shall suddenly come to his temple (in Jerusalem).’ (Malachi 3:1). Jesus fulfilled this in John 2:13-21 at the start of His ministry.