Heleadethme

Don't really have to "say" anything.....just don't resist Him and harden your heart when He comes calling.....but yield to Him.

Amen. 'Recreational' drug use can't be considered to be anything but pagan. I didn't know there were Christian churches actually promoting the use of cannabis....just when you think you've heard everything, goodness. The western church is in dire straits. We're going to reap the same judgments and chastisements that befell Israel....it's already starting IMO.

Just discussing, but maybe we could consider that while it doesn't matter in one sense, it does matter in the sense of understanding HOW the Lord has fulfilled these prophecies of His. And WHY...God making the nations one with Israel in a literal sense...? could that be in order to demonstrate literally to the Jews and all of us that He is not just the God of the Jews but of the whole world...?

Also want to hopefully contribute a little something about covenant....that it's not just contractual, but relational. Being in covenant with someone is a relationship that is walked out together, the two parties together. It's not just the contractual details, but entering into a relationship together. 'Me being with you' and 'you being with me' over the course of a lifetime. God wasn't entering into a business arrangement but into a personal love relationship...which the bible likens to a spousal relationship. That is the wonderful amazing aspect of covenant with the Almighty God...what is man that He is mindful of us? Amazing LOVE.

Just offering this thought here. Thinking that the northern tribes became largely scattered, so their seed mingled with the seed of the Gentiles....still the physical seed of Israel even though mixed through intermarriage with Gentiles (and vice versa). Nations and kings from Abraham's line. Thus the prophecies are true. Abraham is the ancestor of both Israelites and Gentiles. But also equally true that we who are not Jewish/Judah are Gentiles....so the gospel being given to the Gentiles is true and not a lie. Just that many Gentiles over the centuries are partly descended from Israelites. Two sticks (Israel/Gentiles and Judah) becoming one through the gospel and having one King between us. Does that make sense?

Yes, the Lord can get angry, or He can be longsuffering depending on the reasons for different parts of His word being rejected. Could be stubbornness and pride, could be spiritual immaturity, could be d/t bad teaching, could be due to idolatry, it just depends....He knows and judges the heart. I want to post some scriptures and see if you'd share what your thoughts are on them. Heb 7:11-19 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (the Greek word for change here unequivocally means to transpose one thing for another...one thing put in place or exchanged for another...it doesn’t mean to add one thing in addition to another.) For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. (See that..? DISANNULLING of the old....it’s a new law now, as it were) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. Rom 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. (and as scripture establishes, no one can keep the law...the law proves all men to be unrighteous....if we offend in anything at all we have transgressed the whole law) Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. 1Co 7:17-20 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches. Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called. Gal 5:1-14 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. The priesthood has been changed from the tribe of Levi to a new priesthood from the tribe of Judah....the tribe Yeshua/Jesus was born into. And circumcision is one example where the Law was changed....no longer circumcision of the flesh but circumcision of the heart. So in order to obey the Law concerning circumcision one only needs to be circumcised in heart. Another example where the Law was changed is where Jesus spoke about lusting after a woman....the letter of the Law only says not to commit adultery....but the Law being changed to be a Law of the heart requires more than what the letter says. Keeping of Sabbaths is another example...Paul wrote to let it be according to one’s own conscience and to let no one judge us, ie, rule over us, in that matter....if it were still required by God to keep the Sabbath day in the literal sense Paul would of course have said so and taught it.....we actually keep the Sabbath Law when we keep it in heart by having entered the rest of God through faith, ceasing from our own works and walking in His rest every day. (“There remains therefore a sabbath rest to the people of God....”) These are all examples of the new way of the Spirit, in other words. The BIBLE says the dividing wall and enmity are due to the ordinances....and I believe it because I see and experience it, such as on this thread and attending services at some Messianic places of worship. We're supposed to be a NEW MAN, neither Jew nor Gentile, and not divided into two camps, but ONE.

The inaction has been frustrating. Even one of our retired Canadian Generals is frustrated and concerned by this and what it could lead to. Something rotten might be at the bottom of it. (Maybe Biden was willing to go this far to have his and his son's $$$ Ukranian dealings buried in the debris of war, who knows, God knows.) Yes, the lunatics are running the asylum right now....some seem to be as though in a cult-like dream state. Lord have mercy on us all. Heartbreaking what's going on over there....read that Putin has hired mercenary Chechnyan and Islamic fighters from the M.E. who are more willing to commit war crimes than many of the young Russian soldiers. Jesus have mercy.

It's always so sad to see archeological evidence of Israel's apostasy....goes to show how easy it is to fall....kind of the default position of fallen human nature. "Halting between two opinions"....trying to serve both God and Baal at the same time. Instead of serving God the way HE asks, HIS will. That is always why it's so deceitful......and also think it's why it is more preferable to the Lord that a worshiper be stone cold rather than lukewarm (mixture of hot and cold). Someone cold is more able to be restored than someone who is a mixture...because the mixture are deceived to think they are already ok with God since they are doing things in His name, while someone who is cold knows they have nothing to do with God. "Lord, Lord, didn't we do thus and such in your name.....away from me, I never knew you...only who does the WILL of the FATHER will enter the kingdom of heaven."

Spirit of stupor.....God's judgment on a sinful nation.

Well my friend, I see you've chosen to take my comment in whatever way suits you. If those passages I posted, which are so plainly stated, aren't enough to convince someone then I don't know what more can be said. Abolished means abolished. Elsewhere it says what is old and obsolete is passing away. Obsolete means obsolete. The flesh wants to do things its own way rather than God's way.... it seeks to establish its own righteousness rather than submitting to the righteousness of Christ. Is Torah our god? Or do we have a living relationship with the Living God through His Son?

Well to be honest, at 64 I’m too old for homework assignments. 😊 But I’ll just try to do my best in the way I am able, the Lord helping. Do we think Jesus was talking about the old way of the letter where He spoke about teaching the law and jots and tittles? I don't think so, no, because He went on in those passages to give us instruction as how we are to keep the law...in our hearts, through an inward change, not just outward behaviour....a righteousness greater than that of the Pharisees. I think it’s fine for Jewish believers to do what Paul and others did for the sake of expediency, and even just for the sake of getting together with family to celebrate feast days, etc, as a traditional thing if you want to and out of consideration for your family. But Paul wrote that the Law is not of faith......how we keep the Law by faith is not through the old way of a checklist of ordinances and sacrifices but simply in the new way of the Spirit. Jesus and the apostles came teaching the new way of the Spirit, not the old way. In Hebrews it says there has been a change of the law (which required a change of the priesthood). The old testament itself instructed Israel to forget the old and embrace the new thing that God was doing: Isa 43:15 I am the LORD, your Holy One, the creator of Israel, your King. Thus saith the LORD, which maketh a way in the sea, and a path in the mighty waters; Which bringeth forth the chariot and horse, the army and the power; they shall lie down together, they shall not rise: they are extinct, they are quenched as tow. Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a new thing; now it shall spring forth; shall ye not know it? I will even make a way in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert. Jer 3:16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. Moses initially came down the mountain with only ten commandments, but after the Israelites sinned against the Lord all the other requirements of the Law were added seeing that Israel needed to be instructed in righteousness by them. “ Law was added because of transgression”. But God no longer requires all those extraneous ordinances of the Law to be performed, though we may of course still learn and be instructed by reading them: Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances, Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (and as we know Yeshua brought that reformation through a new covenant.) Of course it’s understandable humanly speaking for Jewish people to have a nostalgia for the glory of the former house, and it’s a tragedy how things went for Israel, we all want to see her vindicated so to speak, but we know that can’t come through a new Temple of stone or even through having secure borders...it can only come through the gospel, the same way anyone can be vindicated. As believers we learn to distinguish between our own human emotions and spirit.

God does not accept blood sacrifice of animals any more.....that's like offering Him strange fire. So much for those ordinances...they were nailed to the cross. It is not what the Lord requires and commands now. On the contrary now He counts that as an abomination....because it is an offense against the sacrifice and blood of the Messiah, refusing to accept it and/or treating His sacrifice as insufficient. I truly fear for Israel restoring the Temple and trying to offer God the blood of animals now...it's like doubling down on their rejection of the true Messiah, Jesus Christ/Yeshua. Cain's offering as compared to the offering of righteous Abel. We need to serve God the way that HE asks, not the way WE might want or think. Isa 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. And there will be no more death in the new heavens/earth....hell and death itself will be annihilated in the lake of fire...cast in there by the One who conquered death through His resurrection, so how can there be the death of animals......when the creatures themselves will be liberated from mortal flesh in the new heavens/earth.

This is the scripture I was talking about: Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God. These as well, where Paul references "Israel of God" and "Israel after the flesh": Gal 6:14-16 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. 1Co 10:18 Behold Israel after the flesh: are not they which eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar? Heb 13:9-10 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein. We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.

Praise the Lord for spreading the gospel there brother and for what you endure for His sake. But we have to acknowledge there are extremes in all camps.....the devil is always trying to confuse and muddy the waters....people all too often take the things of God and wield them in their flesh, so to speak. My concern with Jewish roots is the extreme in that camp of idolizing Israel and all things Jewish, thinking that Jews are saved in the old covenant and don't need the gospel, and trying to Judaize the church into law-keeping. Those ones are opposing the sharing the gospel with Israel too. It's such a shame for so-called Christians to use any doctrine and twist it as an excuse for their own anti-semitism.

Gentiles are not Israelites after the flesh though....but the Israel of God. He is a Jew who is Jew inwardly. Our citizenship is in the heavenly, not an earthly nation state. Even Abraham who received the geographical land of promise considered himself a stranger there and kept looking for the Israel of God. Heb 11:8-10 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God. (looking for the Israel of God, heavenly Zion, New Jerusalem) Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city. God doesn't want us minding earthly things. It's all about the heavenly....it's the heavenly things that we are to be concerned with, which constitute the mystery of God from the foundation of the world.

I take it to mean Christ is the Israel of God....the Root and the Tree, which has both natural and unnatural branches.

Amen, a wonderful study. This reminds me of the principle of the unbelieving spouse being sanctified by the believing spouse, and the children being sanctified as well. Also Noah was the only one truly righteous but his household was saved with him.

This passage below is in context of the resurrection of the dead, and the end of the world, AT THE COMING OF CHRIST. It shows He is reigning now and will deliver the kingdom back to the Father at His coming, becoming once more subject to the Father: 1Co 15:22-29 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead? This below clearly says Christ will judge the living and the dead AT HIS APPEARING. When He comes it is judgment day for EVERY SOUL, so how can there be any "survivors" of God's individual judgment of every unsaved soul to "live on" into a future millennial kingdom? It's at His coming that He roots out of His kingdom all the wicked and casts them into the lake of fire. A quick work will the Lord make on the earth, not a protracted 1000 year work. 2 Tim 4:1...who shall JUDGE the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING and His kingdom. The 2 Peter 3 scriptures are all about the promise of His coming and what takes place then.....which agree with all the above as well. It is explicitly written that the "1000 years is as a day" is talking about the time of His longsuffering not willing that any should perish....the age of GRACE which we are in now, in which the door is still open for souls to be saved before the judgment at His coming.

Phl 2:8-11 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus is both King and High Priest. Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Luk 11:20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you. And here’s us ruling and reigning with Him: Luk 10:18-20 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. Behold, I give unto you power (authority) to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you. Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.

We might be seeing the double portion in type, in a figure once again, with Israel after the flesh. Just discussing here and reflecting on the double portion...... as you are saying it is for the firstborn....but the firstborn is really only those of the nation of Israel (& Gentile) who are born again. It might be that we can see what the double portion is all about in a figure (ensample) with the church in the wilderness.....as there were two outpourings of water from the rock.......as well as two bodies of water to get across (Red Sea and then the Jordan). I believe that is showing the personal journey of those who are born again/firstborn. Perhaps this same double portion might also be seen in the former and latter rains, personal for for the believer, but also adding up to and speaking to a corporate manifestation. The nation being circumcised "a second time" before crossing over the Jordan into the Land of Promise....ensample to the born again believer. Maybe we can think of it also that being brought "out of Egypt" is the first portion, then after a wilderness journey being "brought into the Promised Land" (Kingdom of God) is the second portion. As I think George mentioned (forget which thread) the Lord has brought us out in order to bring us in.

Christ is the firstborn among many brethren. And since Israel/Jews were the first to hear the gospel and be born again, those ones are the firstborn of the Israel of God. I take it that the church of the firstborn is speaking of the church/body of Christ, Christ being the firstborn. And that those verses in Hosea 1 and Exodus 4 references to the firstborn are alluding once again to Christ and the Israel of God, which Israel after the flesh is a figure for, which gave rise/birth to the Messiah/Christ and Israel of God. (Not that we disparage Israel after the flesh, no of course not, they are loved and their salvation is much desired and hoped for. When a baby is born most of the attention is given to that child, and rightly so, but it's fair to say there is a certain honour due to the mother as well, who paid a price for that child to come forth. How do we make sure we don't neglect her..........by washing her with the washing of the water of the word and placing her Child back in her arms. That through our mercy she may receive mercy.)

For my part I would say that types, patterns and ensamples of Israel are for sure applicable to the church, for our admonition, instruction and warning....so more important than applying them to the political situation I believe we need to apply them to ourselves, to the church first. What I'm seeing is that the church at large is "halting between two opinions" exactly like what Elijah called Israel out on, ie, Israel was trying to serve both God and mammon/Baal at the same time. The way that Jesus/Yeshua demonstrated to us was a way of simplicity, and He said we cannot serve two masters. The word says to buy the truth but sell it not, freely we have received so freely give.......and Jesus made himself of no reputation, fleeing the crowns that man likes to confer. The church has been adopting the ways of the world rather than Jesus' way.....many have been enriching themselves and making a name for themselves not realizing they have been following the way of the world and the flesh. We need to come back to the simplicity of Christ and be people of the Way again, HIS way, and in that there might be hope that society around us might be leavened with the gospel once again. (The kingdom of heaven being like leaven that a woman hid in three measures of meal.)

It's been frustrating all along that the west (led by USA) haven't done more to stop Putin. Seems like a strange duo in the White House right now.....weak leadership unfortunately, IMO. Lord have mercy.

A result of Godlessness.....the legacy of communism. Karl Marx's not so great idea...a way that seemeth right to man but leads to death. I just hope we in the west don't forget the lessons of history.