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Acadia

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Acadia last won the day on June 25 2018

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About Acadia

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  1. Agreed. Unfortunately many are being taught that personal experience and emotions are more important than sound doctrine and “rightly dividing the word of God.” There is so much man-centred doctrine being promoted and sought after today.
  2. You have no idea who may or may not read this thread or others like it. Bethel’s reach is indeed broad and its growing. And just because you don’t believe it’s loving to warn of deception doesn’t mean it isn’t. Scripture is clear. Actually, massive deception is one of the key characteristics written about in regard to the “last days.” I for one am immensely encouraged that a significant number of my brothers and sisters in Christ are “earnestly contending for the faith once delivered to the saints.” Dismiss that all you like. I won’t.
  3. He won't reply. And even if he did once or twice, you have already said it will take "many hours" of conversation to make a difference. Who here is going to get such an opportunity with a celebrity pastor like Bill Johnson? Also, you presume he hasn't heard these Biblical objections to his teachings before; that is most certainly false. He has been doing this for many many years. Meanwhile, Bethel has influenced thousands, and thanks to their "Supernatural School of Ministry" and their band "Jesus Culture", they are having a profound effect on the youth. (And this impact is spreading) Why should we stay silent? How can we say we truly love people if we don't warn them?
  4. Actually, I don’t desire that anyone would go to Hell. It’s strange that you would think that, especially of believers who are trying to warn others about false and deceiving doctrines and practices. Have you forgotten that we’re in a spiritual battle and that the enemy is very real and seeks to destroy?
  5. He was stating a fact. They were “very religious”. How is that Paul giving them praise? Also, most of the people Paul was speaking to were “everyday people.” They were not “prophets” or “apostles” leading thousands astray. Sorry, that scripture does not support your claim.
  6. I think you need to go have a careful read of just what Jesus said about the religious leaders who were leading the people astray during His earthly ministry. Was He wrong to speak to them and about them the way He did?
  7. No Godly person every praised false prophets. That is false.
  8. You mischaracterize and misrepresent what fellow believers are doing here. No one is “shaking their finger” at anyone or calling them “everything negative they can think of to say.” It is truly sad that you so completely dismiss Biblical discernment.
  9. Do you honestly think that we are going to be given the opportunity to sit down for “many hours” to “rationally” talk with them? In some cases they have had close friends try to warn them, and they haven’t even listened to the people they know and (hopefully) care about. Please tell me how I, or anyone else here, is going to be given the opportunity to spend so much time discussing Scripture with Bill Johnson or any other “celebrity” teacher or preacher. It’s not going to happen. In the meantime they continue to lead hundreds, if not thousands, astray. And you would suggest we say nothing.
  10. Should we warn others about such practices? Yes or no?
  11. Discernment and sound Biblical doctrine is never "a waste of time", contrary to what you would claim. It is unfortunate that you believe such things about Biblical warnings regarding false prophets and false apostles. You think Jesus would fail to warn of such? And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. - Jesus (Matthew 24:11-12) For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. - Jesus (Matthew 24:24) And how exactly did Jesus "treat" the religious leaders who were leading many astray? Did He defend them?
  12. The primary “fruit” of any professed prophet would be the teaching. (The same would go for any pastor or apostle or anyone who stands in the name of God). Let’s examine some of Bill Johnson’s teachings which go errant on so many levels that it is hard to decide where to begin. For the sake of brevity, I will address four areas of concern: a) The Word of Faith Movement; b) Johnson’s teachings on the Incarnation; c) the anointing (Holy Ghost); and d) his theology of experience. I urge you to be the judge according to the test in Deuteronomy 13. I. The Word of Faith Movement It doesn’t take long to see by reading his books that Johnson is a proponent of the Word of Faith teaching, popularized by Kenneth Hagin and Kenneth Copeland. Therefore, it is necessary to give a brief overview of WOF teaching to be able to see where Johnson is coming from. In a nutshell, the WOF teaching is based on a gnostic interpretation of the Fall and of redemption. The following is my paraphrase of their explanation: When God created Adam, He gave him all dominion over the earth, to rule and reign as God’s regent. However, when Adam fell, by obeying Satan, he handed that God-given dominion over to Satan, who became the “god of this world.” God, the Father, couldn’t just come in and take the dominion back—Adam had given it away. God had to find a way for a man to come in, as a man, and undo the folly of Adam, gaining back the authority given to Satan by Adam. Jesus is that man. (The WOF teachers do acknowledge that Jesus is God but believe that He “laid aside His own Divinity” in the Incarnation). As a man, Jesus came into the world, resisted all of the temptation that Adam and Eve and the human race succumbed to, and died on the Cross as a sacrifice for our sins. But there is a twist, for the WOF teachers insist that salvation wasn’t secured for man in Jesus’ death on the Cross as a substitute for our sins. Rather, Jesus first had to descend into hell and suffer the torment of Satan and his minions until God was satisfied that it was enough and could legally raise Him from the dead. Of course, the Word of God says that Jesus’ death on the Cross was sufficient, and that when He said, “Telestai!” (It is done), it really was done. But Copeland and Hagin teach that it wasn’t finished until Jesus had literally “become sin” and endured demonic torment in hell. The Fall, according to WOF, was as much about the loss of power and authority as it was about sin and alienation from God. Therefore, salvation is about restoration of power and authority, as well as forgiveness of sins. We get the power back and can now exercise dominion over this life and take authority over evil. Because of this skewed view, WOF is a power religion. This is why WOF Christians frequently speak in terms of authority; they “bind and/or loose” angels and demons; they decree, rebuke, and otherwise speak in terms of “releasing” peace, grace, or mercy into this situation or that. The essence of this theology is the restoration and practical use of the “authority to the believer.” The ideal in WOF circles is that of the born again man of power and authority, the miracle man who has come in to the “revelation knowledge” of “who he is in Christ,” and demonstrates the power of “the anointing” to a lost world. There have developed extensive mythologies around truly historical figures such as John Alexander Dowie, John G. Lake, and William Branham. These are the men who really “took authority,” they say, and showed us all what any believer could do if he had but the faith and “anointing” to do so! The WOF is an offshoot of an earlier expression of these very ideals, the Manifested Sons of God (MSG), once repudiated by the Assemblies of God in the 1940s but now widely embraced in this new form. MSG is based upon an erroneous interpretation of Romans 8:19, “For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.” Traditional Christianity has held that this verse refers to what happens at the bodily coming of the Lord. When Jesus returns, the curse on Creation will finally be removed, and the true children of God will be manifested. But the MSG teach that this verse means that the Creation is waiting for the church to attain to the knowledge of the power and authority, in order to “manifest” our Sonship to the world, through signs and wonders. All of this must occur before Jesus can come back! This is the context in which to understand where Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture, and the Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry are coming from, as they seek to bring the church into the power and anointing of their “mystical revival.” II. Incarnation In his teaching on the Incarnation, Bill Johnson states, and rightly so, that Jesus Christ is God. But Johnson also emphasizes to an unbiblical extreme that Jesus completely laid aside His deity: There are several problems with this teaching of Johnson’s. For example, it is theologically inaccurate to say that “Jesus had no ability . . .” and that Jesus “set aside His Divinity.” It is dangerously close to being a denial of the deity of Christ, for divinity by definition cannot be “set aside” nor could God ever be said to lack ability in any sense. In the Incarnation, the eternal God became a man, though He never ceased being God. He always had all power, but restrained Himself, declining the prerogatives of power and majesty, which are inherent to Him, that He might live and die for us as true man. Another problem with this is that Johnson asserts that Jesus performed miracles to “set forth a model for us . . . to show us that we could do it (the miracles) too . . .” This is at the very heart of the Word of Faith teaching from which Johnson has emerged. Supposedly, we as individual believers can and should be doing all of the miracles of Jesus, in the power of the Spirit. To Johnson, Jesus came in the flesh, partly to show us that we too could do what He did! This quest for miracle power is misguided and has led many into deception. Jesus didn’t do His miracles to “show us that we can do it.” The miracles of Jesus are manifestations of the merciful God, whether they be the ones in the Gospels, or in the Book of Acts, or those done in His name throughout the world today. “These signs will follow those that believe.” We are not to seek them. It is only a “wicked and adulterous generation (which) seeks after signs.” Johnson actually posits that any believer has the potential to experience most of what Jesus experienced in the Gospels, even the Transfiguration! He states: Johnson seems to fail to appreciate that though Jesus became “as one of us” in the Incarnation, His uniqueness cannot be safely diminished. Imagine a spirituality spent seeking to attain a transfiguration! No wonder Johnson’s students go to such lengths seeking “glory” experiences. III. The “Anointing” The second aspect of Johnson’s teaching that is dangerous and has led to the reckless mysticism in which so many associated with Bethel are involved is what he teaches about the Holy Spirit, particularly “the anointing.” Johnson states: First of all, here is an example of a teacher setting forth an unbiblical separation between the person “Jesus” and the word “Christ.” This is a very dangerous thing to do; it is similar to what the New Age movement claims, and it is being done towards a similar end. New Agers want to establish the (false) idea that Jesus was merely an enlightened person, one who was anointed (Christed) at thirty years old, very similar to other remarkable human beings such as Gandhi and Zoroaster. This “anointing” is a self-realizing experience. Johnson seems to be trying to establish that just as the man Jesus had to be anointed with the Holy Ghost in order (as a man) to do the miracles He did, we too can have the same experience to do the same thing, for Jesus is our model. The Bible doesn’t do this with the word “Christ.” The apostles never relegated Christ as being a title, nor as being an experience. Christ is a designation of Jesus’ deity. Scripture insists that Jesus is the Christ, and it refers to Jesus as Christ, “God was in Christ reconciling the world unto himself . . .” Christ is an eternal person, the second person of the godhead, chosen of the Father, and thus anointed with the Holy Ghost. When Jesus came into the world, He already was Christ; he never had to become Christ, nor can anyone become Christ unless he is a false Christ (i.e., antichrist). On the same subject—the “anointing”—Johnson continues: Do you see the problems Johnson’s teachings on “the anointing” raise? For example, did Jesus become the Christ at His baptism? If “Christ” is only valid upon an experience, what was Jesus before the Holy Ghost came upon Him in the Jordan? Was He merely an unqualified “man with a title” up until then? Johnson’s view on the Christ is strikingly reminiscent of an error which emerged early in the history of the church and was repudiated as heresy. It is called adoptionism. It holds that Jesus was a devout man who did not become “Christed” until He was thirty years old when He was anointed of the Holy Ghost. It was by the Holy Ghost that He did His miracles, but the “anointing” left Him when He died on the Cross. If Jesus could do these things (through revelation knowledge and the anointing), so could any other believer. There is a passage in 1 John 5 that refutes this very error about the Christ: The heretics were teaching that Jesus was not Christ until He was baptized in water and anointed with the Spirit. He remained Christ until He shed His blood. But the apostle insists that “He came by water and blood;” that is, He was already Christ when He was baptized and remained so on the Cross, and through His resurrection. The designation, “Christ,” was and is more than an experience; it is inherent to Jesus, the Divine God/man. IV. The Emphasis on Experience, De-Emphasis on Doctrine Finally, Bethel (and Bill Johnson) is actually dangerous in its approach to doctrine and experience and has exposed its followers to the following practices: In addition to “normal” prophetic words, those who attended Bethel’s “Power and Love Conference” in February 2014 received readings based on their tattoos and piercings. Doug Addison can interpret the hidden messages on your body and even train you to do the same. You don’t even have to fly to where he is; for the reasonable fee of $150, he can tickle your ears over the phone for thirty minutes.6 Believe me when I say I have just scratched the surface of the irrational, unbiblical, and even anti-biblical practices of Bill Johnson’s influential ministry. How do confessing Christians become so undiscerning? There is one aspect of Bethel that is perhaps the most dangerous. Johnson, like so many Pentecostals and evangelicals who have preceded him, has a strong anti-doctrinal emphasis. To the neo-mystics of the New Apostolic Reformation, doctrine has a deadening effect and is valid only to the extent that it induces experience. Doctrine is “the letter which kills” and leads to “head knowledge” as opposed to the personal experience of God, based upon individual revelation. Those who insist on adherence to true doctrine are caricatured as Pharisees. There are familiar clichés in these circles such as “God is offending the mind to reach the heart,” and “a man with an experience is never at the mercy of a man with a doctrine.” These kinds of preachers often delight in saying, “I am going to upend your theology now . . .” as they unveil the latest nugget of their own revelation. Bill Johnson, in illustrating this, stated: Johnson is deconstructing those who seek scriptural knowledge as being in danger of “spiritual pride,” increasing in knowledge in order to “feel good about their standing with God,” and to be better able to win arguments with those who disagree with them! What a pastor! It is almost as if he would discourage the desire to grow in scriptural knowledge! But on the other hand, it is the ones seeking “deeper knowledge” (than that which Scripture reveals?) and a deeper “encounter” with God (experience) whom Johnson considers to be blessed. Imagine a young person sitting under a steady diet of this, and you will see why Bethel, Jesus Culture, and the School of Supernatural Ministry are given over to the most sensual mysticism! To order copies of Beware of Bethel: A Brief Summary of Bill Johnson’s Unbiblical Teachings, click here. (See related booklets.) I really appreciate Lighthouse Trails and their research team. They always take the time to carefully document their resources.
  13. How do you know whether or not anyone on this forum ever listens to Bill Johnson? How do you know that no one who listens to Bill Johnson will ever read the warnings written here? And as to the assumption that those warning about the false teachings of Bill Johnson have not listened to him, you are incorrect. I have. I have watched/listened/read a significant amount of his sermons and teachings. So, your "confidence" that I have not is quite misplaced. Nor should anyone "sit under" or submit themselves to false teaching just to prove it is false. We must be careful to "test" all things, but not to subject ourselves (or encourage others to do so) in a way in which they give these false teachers authority and submit to them. That is how many are led astray. Do you think a Christian should go to a Islamic mosque and submit to Islamic teachings before they can warn that those teachings are false and dangerous?
  14. I am not "trashing" anyone or "running him (Bill Johnson) down". Perhaps you believe Paul was doing so when he named names and publicly exposed and reproved false teachers and deceivers. Perhaps you would have told him not to bother warning believers of "wolves in sheep's clothing", false prophets and false apostles.
  15. I have addressed his wife on her Facebook page. She blocked me, as she does all others who disagree with her. It’s her right to do so, of course, but the point is that these leaders will not listen to anyone who tries to correct or ask honest questions of them. Again, we don’t need to speak with them to publicly address their very public “ministries.” We are to “mark and avoid” those who teach contrary to the doctrine we have received.
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