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David the Prince

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  1. There seems to be a lot of confusion about Jeremiah 8:8 which says in some English translations: "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?" (NIV) Out of the all the verses in the Bible which are usually misunderstood this would definitely be in the top five. Some read this and get the immediate impression that this is saying that the Torah has been corrupted and frankly if one reads the NIV translation of this verse or if someone has not read the whole book of Jeremiah I could see how someone could get that impression. Now we will see here in a second that the NIV translation as well as the Good News Translation (and some others) translate this verse very poorly. There are actually two explanations of this verse and they are based off of two valid translations of this verse. First I would like to present how this verse is translated in multiple modern translations that most people are familiar with(besides the NIV and GNT): English Standard Version “How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. New American Standard Bible "How can you say, 'We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us'? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. King James Bible How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Lo, certainly in vain made he it; the pen of the scribes is in vain. JPS Tanakh 1917 How do ye say: 'We are wise, And the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought The vain pen of the scribes. New American Standard 1977 “How can you say, ‘We are wise, And the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying pen of the scribes Has made it into a lie. Jubilee Bible 2000 How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us? Behold, certainly in vain did he make the pen; the scribes were in vain. American Standard Version How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes hath wrought falsely. Darby Bible Translation How do ye say, We are wise, and the law of Jehovah is with us? Behold, certainly the lying pen of the scribes hath made it falsehood. So we see here that there are about two different translations of this verse which would be considered valid and proper. I will be presenting the two explanations based off of both these translations. But before I present the two explanations you need to know the context of the book of Jeremiah. It's important to know that the primary purpose of most of the OT prophets was to bring the children of Israel back to submission to God and His Torah. Jeremiah was no different. The context of the book of Jeremiah is that God is about to send the children of Israel into the Babylonian captivity for theirs wickedness. So that is what the book of Jeremiah is mostly about and based on. The secondary purpose of the prophets was future prophecies. God would give revelation to the prophets that He is about to send Israel into captivity but then He would also give comforting revelation to the children of Israel about how He was going to bring them back and other future prophecies as well. EXPLANATION #1 This explanation will be based off of the translation presented in versions such as the JPS Tanakh and the KJV which say something like: "How do ye say: 'We are wise, And the Law of the LORD is with us'? Lo, certainly in vain hath wrought The vain pen of the scribes." The Hebrew word "sheqer" in this verse, which can mean "false" or "falsehood," can also mean "vain" or "for nothing" or "for nought." We see this for example in 1 Samuel 25:21 which says: "Now David had said, 'It was in vain (sheqer) that I guarded all of this man's possessions in the wilderness...". Meaning it was useless that he did it. And that's what the word "sheqer" means in Jeremiah chapter 8 verse 8. He's saying that although the people argue that they are wise and that God's Torah is with them, that knowledge is useless because they are rebellious and they don't follow what the Torah says. The scribes were making the writing of the Torah vain by not observing it. So a more proper translation in modern English of Jeremiah 8:8 would be: "How can you say we are wise and that God's Torah is with us? Indeed, the pen has labored in vain and the scribes labor in vain." It's in vain in the sense that the people aren't following the teachings and Torah scrolls that the scribes are recording. The scribes were copying and preserving the Torah yet no one was following the commandments therein therefore making the scribes' labor of copying the Torah in vain. EXPLANATION #2 This explanation will be based off of the translation presented in versions such as the ESV, NASB, NAS 1977, JB 2000, ASV, and the DRT which say something like: "How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But behold, the lying (or vain) pen of the scribes has made it into a lie." Of course as I previously stated the words "lying" and "vain" could mean the same thing in this context. So you could translate it as "...But behold, the vain pen of the scribes has made it into a lie" and it would mean the same thing as saying "lying." And even in English the word "vain" can mean "lying" or "for nothing." As previously stated, this verse can be misleading if you haven't read the whole book of Jeremiah. First, we need to know what the verse means when it says that the vain pen of the scribes has made the Torah (the Law) of God into a lie. How have the scribes made the Torah into a lie? Now obviously when anyone reads this they think a scribe is someone who just copies manuscripts. And so when they read this they see the word "scribe" and they see the phrase that the scribes make the Torah into a lie so they naturally think that the scribes purposely miscopied the Torah. But a scribe was not just someone who copied manuscripts although that is something that they did. Usually anything that had to do with written documents were associated with the scribes. Because they were well versed in Scripture, they did many things such as teaching the Torah and giving interpretations. Like Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. The reason is because the scribes had authority. These were wise men...or...regarded as such. One of the things they often did was write down the revelation that the prophets were receiving while the prophets were dictating to their scribes the revelation. But scribes could also be prophets themselves. Jeremiah could be considered a scribe because God told him “Take a scroll and write on it all the words that I have spoken to you against Israel and Judah and all the nations, from the day I spoke to you, from the days of Josiah until today. It may be that the house of Judah will hear all the disaster that I intend to do to them, so that every one may turn from his evil way, and that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin” (Jer 36:2) but sometimes the authors of the Old Testament had their own scribes as in the case of Jeremiah where it was written, “Then Jeremiah took another scroll and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah, who wrote on it at the dictation of Jeremiah all the words of the scroll that Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire. And many similar words were added to them” (Jer 36:32). As I already stated, what was going on during the time of Jeremiah is that the children of Israel had been wicked for multiple generations after King Solomon and God is telling the prophets that He is about to send the children of Israel into captivity for their wickedness as He promised in the Torah. But while the true prophets of God were trying to warn the children of Israel, there were also false prophets who were telling the children of Israel that God was not going to send them into captivity for their wickedness and that everything was going to be fine. This is recorded in Jeremiah 14:11-16... "And the LORD said unto me: ‘Pray not for this people for their good. When they fast, I will not hear their cry; and when they offer burnt-offering and meal-offering, I will not accept them; but I will consume them by the sword, and by the famine, and by the pestilence.’ Then said I: ‘Ah, Lord GOD! behold, the prophets say unto them: 'Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.'’ Then the LORD said unto me: ‘The prophets prophesy lies in My name; I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spoke I unto them; they prophesy unto you a lying vision, and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their own heart. Therefore thus saith the LORD: As for the prophets that prophesy in My name, and I sent them not, yet they say: 'Sword and famine shall not be in this land,' by sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed; and the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters; for I will pour their evil upon them.’" These false prophets are also talked about in other places in Jeremiah such as Jeremiah 27 as well as in Jeremiah 23:17 which states: "They say continually unto them that despise Me: ‘The LORD hath said: Ye shall have peace’; And unto every one that walketh in the stubbornness of his own heart they say: ‘No evil shall come upon you’;" (*cough *cough pope Francis) So it's obvious how the "vain pen of the scribes" played a role in this since they were giving these false prophecies to the children of Israel that they were going to be okay and that God wasn't going to punish them. What does it mean that they made the Torah of God into a lie by doing this? Well God told the children of Israel in the Torah that if they didn't follow His commandments that He would bring His wrath upon them and bring nations against them to take them away into captivity. So when these scribes, these "wise men," were giving "revelation" they were making the judgment that God promised in His Torah into a lie by saying that God wasn't going to do what He promised to do to the children of Israel if they became wicked. So the scribes who were themselves false prophets and who were writing their false revelation and teachings were the making the Torah of God into a lie by denying the righteous judgement that God has promised. The scribes were also well versed in the Torah and often taught the Torah and interpreted it which didn't help in this situation. Now that I've covered the explanations, we must realize how ridiculous the notion is that this is saying the Torah has been corrupted. Why would Jeremiah say in chapter 8 that the Torah has been corrupted and then in chapter 26 tell the children of Israel to follow God's Torah? Doesn't make much sense does it? But anyway I hope this cleared up any confusion people might have regarding Jeremiah 8:8. Let me know which explanation you think is better although both are good and make sense in the overall context.
  2. David the Prince

    Question to theists regarding their motivation

    There is a definite advantage to being a theist and a Christian in particular in this current age. Christianity revolves around law, order, and authority. There is a blessing to following the commandments of God. Not only to the person keeping the commandments but to everyone around them. It's important to know that almost 100% of sin has to do with matters concerning other people. When someone sins, there is about a 99.9% chance that they are going to effect someone else either directly or indirectly. And sin almost always has a butterfly effect. How following God's Torah benefits you is that there will always be a direct and indirect blessing. When you follow God's Torah it maintains your well-being and everyone else's. To give you a quick example, if you raise your children in the fear and admiration of God, you're benefiting both them and you. You're benefiting them because you're ensuring that they will live a righteous and peaceful life and on top of that you're benefiting your children's children and so on and so forth. You're also benefiting yourself because you'll be happy knowing that your children are living a righteous and peaceful life. And if your children are righteous it might save you a little bit of trouble in the future for whatever reason. But that's just one example. I could go on and on with the benefits and repercussions of following God's Torah and as well as the repercussions and the various "butterfly effects" of not following God's Torah.
  3. David the Prince

    Is it moral if it isn't true?

    The context of the verse is that in Church the assembly shouldn't all be speaking in tongues at the same time. In that case one must restrain themselves from speaking in tongues. What I meant by uncontrollable experience is that it just kind of happend randomly. Meaning I wasn't planning on doing it. It just kind of happend. And the Apostle Paul tells us in those verses that we are to control it.
  4. David the Prince

    Is it moral if it isn't true?

    Did you even read 1 Corinthians 14? "Follow after love; yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts , but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth him; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
  5. David the Prince

    Is it moral if it isn't true?

    Oh hey I didn't even notice you responded. But anyway I'm assuming you're looking for something that's...what's the word I'm looking for...abnormal or spiritual in nature. Correct? Well lucky for you the Father Almighty made provisions that in the New Covenant (which we are currently under) He would give us the ability of spiritual gifts. There are many things which could be considered spiritual gifts but what I would like to talk about is the spiritual gift of speaking in tongues. Now this is not something one can simply do on command nor is it something that can be taught. In fact if you ever hear it, you'll notice that it usually sounds like complete gibberish. It's described in two places in Scripture. It's described in Acts 2 and 1 Corinthians 14. But both describe different aspects of it. Here are the two passages: Acts 2:1‭-‬21 "And when the day of Pentecost was now come, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound as of the rushing of a mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them tongues parting asunder, like as of fire; and it sat upon each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven. And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language. And they were all amazed and marveled, saying, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? And how hear we, every man in our own language, wherein we were born? Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia, in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians, we do hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God. And they were all amazed, and were perplexed, saying one to another, What meaneth this? But others mocking said, They are filled with new wine. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and spake forth unto them, saying , Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and give ear unto my words. For these are not drunken, as ye suppose; seeing it is but the third hour of the day; but this is that which hath been spoken by the prophet Joel; 'And it shall be in the last days, saith God, I will pour forth of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: Yea and on my servants and on my handmaidens in those days Will I pour forth of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy. And I will shew wonders in the heaven above, And signs on the earth beneath; Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the day of the Lord come, That great and notable day : And it shall be, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'" The phrase "in the last days" in this passage has both an immediate and future context. "The last days" in the context of this passage insinuates the time of the New Covenant which we have been in for about 2,000 years. Now when the prophecies of the New Covenant is near to fulfillment that's when the prophecies about "Blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood" shall come to pass. In contrast to Acts 2 which describes tongues as the ability to speak in other languages seemingly at the same time, 1 Corithians 14:1‭-‬5 gives us a different picture: "Follow after love; yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts , but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth him; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men edification, and comfort, and consolation. He that speaketh in a tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the Church. Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying." The Apostle Paul then regulates this gift in the rest of the chapter: 1 Corinthians 14:6‭-‬‬33 "But now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, unless I speak to you either by way of revelation, or of knowledge, or of prophesying, or of teaching? Even things without life, giving a voice, whether pipe or harp, if they give not a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? For if the trumpet give an uncertain voice, who shall prepare himself for war? So also ye, unless ye utter by the tongue speech easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye will be speaking into the air. There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and no kind is without signification. If then I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be to him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh will be a barbarian unto me. So also ye, since ye are zealous of spiritual gifts , seek that ye may abound unto the edifying of the Church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in a tongue pray that he may interpret. For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. Else if thou bless with the spirit, how shall he that filleth the place of the unlearned say the Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he knoweth not what thou sayest? For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. I thank God, I speak with tongues more than you all: howbeit in the Church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that I might instruct others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue. Brethren, be not children in mind: howbeit in malice be ye babes, but in mind be men. In the law it is written, 'By men of strange tongues and by the lips of strangers will I speak unto this people; and not even thus will they hear me, saith the Lord.' Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to the unbelieving: but prophesying is for a sign , not to the unbelieving, but to them that believe. If therefore the whole Church be assembled together, and all speak with tongues, and there come in men unlearned or unbelieving, will they not say that ye are mad? But if all prophesy, and there come in one unbelieving or unlearned, he is reproved by all, he is judged by all; the secrets of his heart are made manifest; and so he will fall down on his face and worship God, declaring that God is among you indeed. What is it then, brethren? When ye come together, each one hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying. If any man speaketh in a tongue, let it be by two, or at the most three, and that in turn; and let one interpret: but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the Church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. And let the prophets speak by two or three, and let the others discern. But if a revelation be made to another sitting by, let the first keep silence. For ye all can prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted; and the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets; for God is not a God of confusion, but of peace; as in all the Churches of the saints." So you have two aspects of the same gift. One is speaking in other languages and the other is more like an angelic tongue if you will that no man can understand. And since you probably want to know I have spoken in tongues a few times but it was an uncontrollable experience. The places you can hear this gift would probably be in an Apostlic or Pentecostal Church. I believe the Catholic Church also recognizes this gift but you probably won't hear it there. Many Churches have different opinions or interpretations of what speaking tongues is. Most dismiss it as just speaking in other real languages but that can't be because 1 Corinthians 14 clearly describes it as, "For he that speaketh in a tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God; for no man understandeth him; but in the spirit he speaketh mysteries." And remember even in Acts 2 it was not just simply speaking in other languages. They were speaking in other languages simultaneously where everyone present from many nations could here their languages being spoken at the same time.
  6. David the Prince

    Is it moral if it isn't true?

    What kind of evidence are you looking for? No, I didn't do it. I got tagged. Someone else did it and for exactly the reason you suggested lol. That's why I can only post in the outer court. But it's fine with me.
  7. David the Prince

    Is it moral if it isn't true?

    You're assertion is based off of your first premise that Christianity is false. But in regards to your question, I thinks it's rather proper to present the populace with Christianity and let them make their own decision to accept it. Since presumably you're an agnostic I hope you wouldn't mind me switching your scenario around to say that if, hypothetically, the God presented in the Bible is the One true God and God is real, would it not be extremely immoral and damaging to society and the human psyche to keep perpetuating the thought that this is not true? And to answer my own question, I would say that since I take the position that Christianity is the only true faith then naturally in my opinion I would say that it is damaging to society to teach against it. But I do not agree with suppressing all other ideals. Debate is a very good thing. It is best to test all things like 1 Thessalonians 5:21 says. So I hold to position that's it's best to present the populace with Christianity and with the Gospel of the Kingdom while not suppressing other ideologies so that people can make a decision for themselves.
  8. Here are some descriptions of the coming Messianic Age and the Messiah when Yeshua HaMashiach returns to establish the Kingdom of God on earth. It is coming very soon as the prophet Hosea predicted: "For the children of Israel shall sit solitary many days without a king, and without a prince, and without sacrifice, and without pillar, and without ephod or teraphim; afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall come trembling unto the LORD and to His goodness in the end of days." (Hosea 3:4-5) Isaiah 11 (1) And there shall come forth a shoot out of the stock of Jesse, And a twig shall grow forth out of his roots. (2) And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, The spirit of wisdom and understanding, The spirit of counsel and might, The spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD. (3) And his delight shall be in the fear of the LORD; And he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, Neither decide after the hearing of his ears; (4) But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, And decide with equity for the meek of the land; And he shall smite the land with the rod of his mouth, And with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. (5) And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, And faithfulness the girdle of his reins. (6) And the wolf shall dwell with the lamb, And the leopard shall lie down with the kid; And the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; And a little child shall lead them. (7) And the cow and the bear feed; Their young ones shall lie down together; And the lion shall eat straw like the ox. (8) And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, And the weaned child shall put his hand on the basilisk’s den. (9) They shall not hurt nor destroy In all My holy mountain; For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, As the waters cover the sea. (10) And it shall come to pass in that day, That the root of Jesse, that standeth for an ensign of the peoples, Unto him shall the nations seek; And his resting-place shall be glorious. (11) And it shall come to pass in that day, That the Lord will set His hand again the second time To recover the remnant of His people, That shall remain from Assyria, and from Egypt, And from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, And from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. (12) And He will set up an ensign for the nations, And will assemble the dispersed of Israel, And gather together the scattered of Judah From the four corners of the earth. (13) The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, And they that harass Judah shall be cut off; Ephraim shall not envy Judah, And Judah shall not vex Ephraim. (14) And they shall fly down upon the shoulder of the Philistines on the west; Together shall they spoil the children of the east; They shall put forth their hand upon Edom and Moab; And the children of Ammon shall obey them. (15) And the LORD will utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; And with His scorching wind will He shake His hand over the River, And will smite it into seven streams, And cause men to march over dry-shod. (16) And there shall be a highway for the remnant of His people, That shall remain from Assyria, Like as there was for Israel In the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt. Isaiah 9 (1) The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light; they that dwelt in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. (2) Thou hast multiplied the nation, Thou hast increased their joy; they joy before Thee according to the joy in harvest, as men rejoice when they divide the spoil. (3) For the yoke of his burden, and the staff of his shoulder, the rod of his oppressor, Thou hast broken as in the day of Midian. (4) For every boot stamped with fierceness, and every cloak rolled in blood, shall even be for burning, for fuel of fire. (5) For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace. (6) That the government may be increased, and of peace there be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it through justice and through righteousness From henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts doth perform this. (7) The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel. (8) And all the people shall know, even Ephraim and the inhabitant of Samaria, that say in pride and in arrogancy of heart: (9) ‘The bricks are fallen, but we will build with hewn stones; the sycamores are cut down, but cedars will we put in their place.’ (10) Therefore the LORD doth set upon high the adversaries of Rezin against him, and spur his enemies; (11) The Arameans on the east, and the Philistines on the west; and they devour Israel with open mouth. For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still. (12) Yet the people turneth not unto Him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts. (13) Therefore the LORD doth cut off from Israel head and tail, palm-branch and rush, in one day. (14) The elder and the man of rank, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. (15) For they that lead this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed. (16) Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall He have compassion on their fatherless and widows; For every one is ungodly and an evil-doer, And every mouth speaketh wantonness. For all this His anger is not turned away, but His hand is stretched out still. (17) For wickedness burneth as the fire; it devoureth the briers and thorns; yea, it kindleth in the thickets of the forest, And they roll upward in thick clouds of smoke. (18) Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land burnt up; the people also are as the fuel of fire; No man spareth his brother. (19) And one snatcheth on the right hand, and is hungry; and he eateth on the left hand, and is not satisfied; they eat every man the flesh of his own arm: (20) Manasseh, Ephraim; and Ephraim, Manasseh; and they together are against Judah. For all this His anger is not turned away, But His hand is stretched out still. Zechariah 14 (1) Behold, a day of the LORD cometh, When thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. (2) For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; And the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, And the women ravished; And half of the city shall go forth into captivity, But the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. (3) Then shall the LORD go forth, And fight against those nations, As when He fighteth in the day of battle. (4) And His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, Which is before Jerusalem on the east, And the mount of Olives shall cleft in the midst thereof Toward the east and toward the west, So that there shall be a very great valley; And half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, And half of it toward the south. (5) And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; For the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azel; Yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake In the days of Uzziah king of Judah; And the LORD my God shall come, And all the holy ones with Thee. (6) And it shall come to pass in that day, that there shall not be light, But heavy clouds and thick; (7) And there shall be one day Which shall be known as the LORD’S, Not day, and not night; But it shall come to pass, that at evening time there shall be light. (8) And it shall come to pass in that day, That living waters shall go out from Jerusalem: Half of them toward the eastern sea, And half of them toward the western sea; In summer and in winter shall it be. (9) And the LORD shall be King over all the earth; In that day shall the LORD be One, and His name one. (10) All the land shall be turned as the Arabah, from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem; and she shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananel unto the king’s winepresses. (11) And men shall dwell therein, And there shall be no more extermination; But Jerusalem shall dwell safely. (12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite All the peoples that have warred against Jerusalem: Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, And their eyes shall consume away in their sockets, And their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. (13) And it shall come to pass in that day, That a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; And they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, And his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour. (14) And Judah also shall fight against Jerusalem; And the wealth of all the nations round about shall be gathered together, Gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance. (15) And so shall be the plague of the horse, Of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, And of all the beasts that shall be in those camps, as this plague. (16) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. (17) And it shall be, that whoso of the families of the earth goeth not up unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, upon them there shall be no rain. (18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, they shall have no overflow; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the nations that go not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all the nations that go not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. (20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses: HOLY UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD’S house shall be like the basins before the altar. (21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holy unto the LORD of hosts; and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein; and in that day there shall be no more a trafficker in the house of the LORD of hosts. Jeremiah 23:1-8 (1) Woe unto the shepherds that destroy and scatter the sheep of My pasture! saith the LORD. (2) Therefore thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel, against the shepherds that feed My people: Ye have scattered My flock, and driven them away, and have not taken care of them; behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD. (3) And I will gather the remnant of My flock out of all the countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them back to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and multiply. (4) And I will set up shepherds over them, who shall feed them; and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall any be lacking, saith the LORD. (5) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous shoot, and he shall reign as king and prosper, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. (6) In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely; and this is his name whereby he shall be called, the LORD is our righteousness. (7) Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that they shall no more say: ‘As the LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt’; (8) but: ‘As the LORD liveth, that brought up and that led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all the countries whither I had driven them’; and they shall dwell in their own land. Isaiah 42 (1) Behold My servant, whom I uphold; Mine elect, in whom My soul delighteth; I have put My spirit upon him, He shall make the right to go forth to the nations. (2) He shall not cry, nor lift up, Nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. (3) A bruised reed shall he not break, And the dimly burning wick shall he not quench; He shall make the right to go forth according to the truth. (4) He shall not fail nor be crushed, Till he have set the right in the earth; And the isles shall wait for his teaching. (5) Thus saith God the LORD, He that created the heavens, and stretched them forth, He that spread forth the earth and that which cometh out of it, He that giveth breath unto the people upon it, And spirit to them that walk therein: (6) I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, And have taken hold of thy hand, And kept thee, and set thee for a covenant of the people, For a light of the nations; (7) To open the blind eyes, To bring out the prisoners from the dungeon, And them that sit in darkness out of the prison-house. . (8) I am the LORD, that is My name; And My glory will I not give to another, Neither My praise to graven images. (9) Behold, the former things are come to pass, And new things do I declare; Before they spring forth I tell you of them. (10) Sing unto the LORD a new song, And His praise from the end of the earth; Ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein, The isles, and the inhabitants thereof. (11) Let the wilderness and the cities thereof lift up their voice, The villages that Kedar doth inhabit; Let the inhabitants of Sela exult, Let them shout from the top of the mountains. (12) Let them give glory unto the LORD, And declare His praise in the islands. (13) The LORD will go forth as a mighty man, He will stir up jealousy like a man of war; He will cry, yea, He will shout aloud, He will prove Himself mighty against His enemies. (14) I have long time held My peace, I have been still, and refrained Myself; Now will I cry like a travailing woman, Gasping and panting at once. (15) I will make waste mountains and hills, And dry up all their herbs; And I will make the rivers islands, And will dry up the pools. (16) And I will bring the blind by a way that they knew not, In paths that they knew not will I lead them; I will make darkness light before them, and rugged places plain. These things will I do, And I will not leave them undone. (17) They shall be turned back, greatly ashamed, That trust in graven images, That say unto molten images: ‘Ye are our gods.’ (18) Hear, ye deaf, And look, ye blind, that ye may see. (19) Who is blind, but My servant? Or deaf, as My messenger that I send? Who is blind as he that is wholehearted, And blind as the LORD’S servant? (20) Seeing many things, thou observest not; Opening the ears, he heareth not. (21) The LORD was pleased, for His righteousness’sake, To make the teaching great and glorious. (22) But this is a people robbed and spoiled, They are all of them snared in holes, And they are hid in prison-houses; They are for a prey, and none delivereth, For a spoil, and none saith: ‘Restore.’ (23) Who among you will give ear to this? Who will hearken and hear for the time to come? (24) Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? Did not the LORD? He against whom we have sinned, And in whose ways they would not walk, Neither were they obedient unto His law. (25) Therefore He poured upon him the fury of His anger, And the strength of battle; And it set him on fire round about, yet he knew not, And it burned him, yet he laid it not to heart. Isaiah 2 (1) The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. (2) And it shall come to pass in the end of days, That the mountain of the LORD’S house Shall be established as the top of the mountains, And shall be exalted above the hills; And all nations shall flow unto it. (3) And many peoples shall go and say: ‘Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, To the house of the God of Jacob; And He will teach us of His ways, And we will walk in His paths.’ For out of Zion shall go forth the law, And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. (4) And He shall judge between the nations, And shall decide for many peoples; And they shall beat their swords into plowshares, And their spears into pruninghooks; Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, Neither shall they learn war any more. (5) O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk In the light of the LORD. (6) For Thou hast forsaken Thy people the house of Jacob; For they are replenished from the east, And with soothsayers like the Philistines, And they please themselves in the brood of aliens. (7) Their land also is full of silver and gold, Neither is there any end of their treasures; Their land also is full of horses, Neither is there any end of their chariots. (8) Their land also is full of idols; Every one worshippeth the work of his own hands, That which his own fingers have made. (9) And man boweth down, And man lowereth himself; And Thou canst not bear with them. (10) Enter into the rock, And hide thee in the dust, From before the terror of the LORD, And from the glory of His majesty. (11) The lofty looks of man shall be brought low, And the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. (12) For the LORD of hosts hath a day Upon all that is proud and lofty, And upon all that is lifted up, and it shall be brought low; (13) And upon all the cedars of Lebanon That are high and lifted up, And upon all the oaks of Bashan; (14) And upon all the high mountains, And upon all the hills that are lifted up; (15) And upon every lofty tower, And upon every fortified wall; (16) And upon all the ships of Tarshish, And upon all delightful imagery. (17) And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, And the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; And the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day. (18) And the idols shall utterly pass away. (19) And men shall go into the caves of the rocks, And into the holes of the earth, From before the terror of the LORD, And from the glory of His majesty, When He ariseth to shake mightily the earth. (20) In that day a man shall cast away His idols of silver, and his idols of gold, Which they made for themselves to worship, To the moles and to the bats; (21) To go into the clefts of the rocks, And into the crevices of the crags, From before the terror of the LORD, And from the glory of His majesty, When he ariseth to shake mightily the earth. (22) Cease ye from man, in whose nostrils is a breath; For how little is he to be accounted! Daniel 2:44 (44) And in the days of those kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed; nor shall the kingdom be left to another people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, but it shall stand for ever. Daniel 7:18 (18) But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.’ Daniel 7:14 (14) And there was given him dominion, And glory, and a kingdom, That all the peoples, nations, and languages Should serve him; His dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, And his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
  9. David the Prince

    Can't wait to have discussions/debates

    Will I need to post in the "Worthy Welcome" section three more times in order for my profile to be approved?
  10. David the Prince

    Can't wait to have discussions/debates

    I'm excited to begin making post on this site in order to have civilized discussions/debates.