Biblican

The Nation of Israel - The Sign of the Fig Tree In 1947 the nation of Israel was established for the purpose of providing a homeland for the Jewish people. Since then Jews have been flocking to Israel, and in some cases many of them receive help from organizations that have been established for that purpose. While on the surface this may all seem wonderful, when we carefully examine the scriptures, an ominous scenario begins to emerge. In Jesus’ discourse on the Mount of Olives in Matthew 24, He prophesies of an attack on Jerusalem that will occur before His second coming. His prophecy is correlated with Zechariah 14:1-3, where we are told that the Jews will go through another captivity. Behold, the day of the LORD comes, and your spoil shall be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. This prophecy in turn correlates with Ezekiel 38. Jesus warns that those who are living in Judea at that time should flee. When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:) Then let them which are in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take anything out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe to them that are with child, and to them that nurse in those days! But you pray that your flight is not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened (Matthew 24:15-22). He also made it very clear that people should not go there from other countries. And when you shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is near. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter into it (Luke 21:20,21). This warning is obviously being ignored, even by many Christians who eagerly support the Jewish peoples’ return to the Holy land. The prophecies in the Old Testament that many Christians use to support the Jews’ return to Israel are taken out of context. In the context recorded in the prophecies of Jeremiah and Ezekiel, God tells the Jews that He will return them to the Holy Land after their 70 year captivity in Babylon is completed. He tells them that they will receive a new everlasting covenant (Jeremiah 31:31, 32:40), the temple will be rebuilt, the Messiah will come at that time (Micah 5:2) and He will be born in Bethlehem (Malachi 3:1). The purpose of God returning His people to Israel was to bring in the Messiah. They were also told in Daniel 9:26 that the Messiah would be killed and after that the city would be destroyed once again. Jesus came, and was killed as prophesied 40 years before the city was destroyed by Titus in 70AD. Jesus was rejected by His people resulting in His death because “They did not know the time of their visitation” (Luke 19:44). They did not recognize that Jesus was their Messiah even though the scriptures had painted such a precise and accurate map that detailed His coming. That rejection instigated the destruction of their city after a period of forty years during which the Jews had the opportunity to hear the gospel in their own land. The prophecies show us that the Jews will again be in their land before Jesus’ return. Ezekiel shows us in verse eight in the 38th chapter of his prophecy that in the “latter years” Gog the invader from the north, “shall come into the land that is brought back from the sword (a reference to their return after the destruction in 70AD) and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have always been waste: but is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.” The prophecy goes on to describe their invasion and God’s ultimate judgment upon their invaders. While it is quite obvious that the Jews that have been gathered from many countries will be living in Israel in the “latter Days,” the phrase “I will gather them” is conspicuously absent from the latter years’ references. Many orthodox Jews have refused to return to Israel because they have astutely recognized from the scriptures that it is the Messiah who will bring them back. Because they have rejected Jesus as the Messiah, they are still anticipating the coming of the Messiah, but that will be as the scriptures show after the second captivity. The modern nation of Israel was established before Jesus’ second coming. Zechariah shows us that the Lord returns after the second captivity and it is then that He gathers His people the second time (Isaiah 11:11). There are no references that show the Lord gathering them a third time, only after the first captivity and the second, when Jesus will establish His millennial reign of peace (Isaiah 11:6-9, Revelation 20:1-3). It is interesting to note that one of the major reasons the Jews reject Jesus as the Messiah is that when He was on earth He did not instigate that prophesied time of peace. But they neglected to consider the details in Daniel’s prophecy. Daniel prophesied that the Anointed One (Messiah) is killed before the destruction of Jerusalem, then he gives a historically accurate history of events that happen up to the judgment in chapter twelve. There is absolutely no mention of that time of peace, or the messiah coming, only destruction from the antichrist. It is obvious that the time of peace has to occur after the judgment when Jesus returns. This all prompts us to ask a couple of questions. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD because the people rejected the Messiah Jesus. Why would God return them when they still refused to accept Jesus as their Messiah? Secondly, after the captivity, God returned them to their land as a religious nation. When He returns and gathers them after the second captivity, He also establishes a religious nation. Then if God established the modern nation of Israel, why is it a secular nation? If one does some research, it will be discovered that the nation of modern Israel was established with the help of individuals who also believe that the establishment of a one world government is also a good idea. This evil last world empire is also graphically prophesied in Revelation 13 and Daniel’s prophecies. Because the people behind this movement are basically opposed to God and His Messiah, God’s laws are not foundational and the acceptance of a certain sexual sin that God has labeled as “Abomination” (Leviticus 18:22), is celebrated with a yearly parade in the streets of Jerusalem. We can also assume that possibly the “Abomination that makes desolate” mentioned in Daniel 9:27 and Matthew 24:15, that stands in the holy place, (“place” meaning a physical location in the Greek, and not necessarily the Holy of Holies) could be one of the sins that eventually triggers God’s judgment on that nation as prophesied in Ezekiel 38. Thus we can understand why Jerusalem is labeled as “Sodom and Egypt” in Revelation 11:8. Israel is also referred to as “Egypt,” a Gentile nation, which is a reproach upon the Jews’ own bigotry against Gentiles. God’s commandments to treat the “strangers,” the Gentiles, in their land as equals is blatantly ignored, (Leviticus 19:34) which is evident by the Jews’ brutal treatment of the Palestinians over the years. God has always used Israel’s enemies to be His chastening rod when His people consistently violated His commandments. Then when repentance has been achieved, God then deals with Israel’s enemies in like manner. No one can invade Israel until God allows it. In the meantime prayers for all nations to come to repentance should be made fervently because God has promised that when men repent, so He will also repent of the judgments He has proclaimed upon their sin. While the founding of the modern nation of Israel coincides with the plans to establish a one world government with possibly Jerusalem as its capital, it is obvious that God has permitted the establishment of Israel by man for two reasons. Israel is generally viewed as the fig tree in scripture. Jesus said, “Now learn a parable of the fig tree. When his branch is yet tender and puts forth leaves, you know summer is nigh. So likewise you, when you shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Truly I say to you, this generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled” (Matthew 24:32-34). The establishment of the nation of Israel is quite possibly ordained to be the sign that we are living in the last generation before Jesus returns. Israel has just celebrated her 75th year as a nation and is nearing the time for her appointed judgment, as are the rest of the nations that have rebelled against God by rejecting God’s moral laws and His Messiah Jesus. We must not ignore the signs Jesus said would precede the great time of trouble, Jacob’s trouble, the great tribulation that will have repercussions for all of mankind. It is time to prepare spiritually as well as physically for this event. Secondly, as Israel was given 40 years to hear the gospel in her own land before her destruction in 70AD, so God is also permitting her to hear the gospel before her second captivity. The evidence for this is contained in Micah’s “Bethlehem Prophecy” (Micah 5). After he tells us that the Messiah is to be born in Bethlehem, we are told that He will “give her up” until her travailing is finished. This is a reference to her destruction by Titus in 70AD. Her travailing continues until the latter days when she is returned to the Holy land. It is at this time when we are shown that that the remnant of His, (the Messiah’s) brethren return to minister to her. Once again the people of Israel are hearing the gospel on her own soil in the time allotted before God permits her enemies to attack. This man (the Messiah) will be the peace (verse 5) when the enemy invades. Those who have received the Messiah Jesus will have the peace that He gives, assuring them of their eternal life and their security in Him that lifts them above all the turmoil that will commence when the prophecies of this time begin to be fulfilled. This is a crucial time in Israel’s history and the history of the world. God is a God of righteousness and justice. He will only permit sin to continue for so long before our sins cause Him to withdraw His protection. God’s laws were always intended to separate His people from the practices of the lawless pagan nations around them. This principle still applies. God is calling His people, Jews and Christians alike out of Babylon, the compromise with secular ideologies that have polluted His people. He is calling us out of all apostate religious systems and into the arms of the Messiah who alone has been ordained by God to be our provision and safety. Someday Israel will hear His voice calling her out of the ashes of her second captivity when He returns as prophesied in absolute victory. We cherish the Jewish people because God has chosen them out of all the nations to be the womb through which He would birth salvation for all of mankind through the Messiah Jesus. Let us continue to show her His love by warning her of the wrath to come and give her the opportunity to not only “flee to the Mountains,” (Matthew 24:16), for her physical protection, but also to the much higher ground of the salvation that is found only in their Messiah Jesus; the Messiah they have rejected, who is so willing to have them return to Him and His promised land of eternal life.

The purpose of my post was to remove the stumblingblock of mis-interpretations of the Trinity so that Muslims can come to Jesus. Because of the wordings of the definitions that are used, they think that Christians are polytheists and you confirmed the same errors that perpetuate the Muslims conceptions. Part of that is because you are relying on what others have said and not what the scriptures actually teach. It was always believed that Jesus always existed within the Father as the "essence of His being" they also believed that there was a specific point in infinity when His soul was begotten. The term "eternally begotten" simply means that He was begotten from eternity, from a very long time ago. The word begotten means birthed. Any one who is birthed must come from a pre-existing substance. Jesus soul/person that was to be the offering for our sins was begotten or birthed from the Father's substance which is Spirit, then unified with the Father's Spirit which we see in Isaiah 42:1. In order to take our sins upon Himself, His soul had to have been a distinct begotten element from the Father. Jesus' soul was begotten, His Spirit is the Divine eternal Holy Spirit of the Father. That is why He is called God by Wesley, but they certainly did not see Jesus as God the Father. The very use of the word begotten means that there had to be a beginning or a birth at some point. The documentation I read was from the fifth council which stated specifically that Jesus was twice begotten., once prior to His incarnation and again from Mary and if you didn't believe that you were anathema. The quotes I have from Wesley, Calvin and Justin Martyr are as follows. In Wesley's commentary on the whole Bible on Colossians 1:5 he says,... "the image of the invisible God, the first born of every creature, begotten before every creature; subsisting before all worlds before all time, from all eternity." Justin Martyr from his Dialogue with Trypho- "God beget before all creatures a Beginning, a certain reasonable power from Himself." Calvin says in his commentary on Colossians 1:15 from the Geneva Bible - "A graphic description of the person of Christ, by which we understand, that in Him alone God shows Himself to be seen: who was begotten of the Father before anything was made, that is from everlasting. And by Him also all things are made without any exception, by Whom they continue to exist, and Whose glory they serve. Begotten before anything was made and therefore the everlasting Son of the Everlasting Father." Again, the word begotten means to be birthed, to proceed out from a preexisting substance. Wesley no way meant that Jesus was God the Father, He is God because God was in Him as the apostles taught. They are two distinct persons/souls, one Spirit which makes them one God, and unifies the persons, but we must always make it very clear that Jesus is the Son of God and He is not the Father. If we cannot explain how God, the Spirit and Jesus are unified from the scriptures then we are tritheists. Jesus is "God" because His begotten soul has been unified with God's Holy Spirit and that makes them one substance. Chrysostom would have to explain to me from the scriptures alone how he arrived at his explanation which is basically his personal philosophy.

Jesus did have a normal human body except His spirit or life force had to be the Holy Spirit and that is where His divinity is found and what distinguished Him from Adam. As the Apostle Paul said, Adam was made a living soul, Jesus was made a life giving Spirit. The Spirit is what gives life to the body. What made Jesus divine is that His Spirit, that which gave His human body life is the Holy Spirit. That is what made Him God manifest in Human flesh. Jesus is fully human because His soul/person was unified with His flesh, fully God because His Spirit is God's Spirit, the life in Himself John 5:26. If Jesus was given life by a human spirit inherited from Adam, then He could not be divine. The term He used "Into Your Hands I commend My Spirit" is a common saying and is just another way to say, I am dying now.

You are incorrect. By the fourth and fifth councils you had to believe that Jesus' was twice begotten once prior to His incarnation and then again through Mary. If you didn't believe that you were anathema, or cursed. I have quotes from Calvin and Wesley who also taught the same thing. However they believed that Jesus always existed within the Father. If Jesus' soul/person did not have a beginning at some point in infinity then we do not have a Father and Son but two coeternal gods and that is polytheism. Jesus' soul has to be a distinct begotten entity from the Father in order to take our sins upon Him.

Jesus did not have two spirits. As a man he had a body, a soul and a spirit. His Spirit is the Holy Spirit and that is where His divinity is found. His Spirit unified with His begotten soul/person makes Him fully God, His soul unified with His body makes Him fully man.

Again, we will have to agree to disagree.

Why don't you just study what the scriptures are actually saying instead of making up your own explanations?

Your entire interpretation of Revelation is off because you cannot acknowledge or understand prophetic symbolism which you have demonstrated consistently. One of the most damaging misinterpretations that is parroted by many including yourself is that the entire church is going to be raptured pre trib when the Lord very specifically tells Jezebel's followers that they will go through tribulation unless they repent. Therefore many Christians are being deceived and will not examine themselves to see if they are in the Philadelphian remnant category that is promised protection. I do not agree with your interpretation as it contradicts the prophetic clues that are crucial to a proper understanding of the visions, and as I have said before we will have to agree to disagree. Meanwhile go have a nap and a cookie it may help.

We will have to agree to disagree.

John was shown specifically from the Lord that Candlesticks represent churches in Revelation 1:20. You are ignoring the meaning and changing it because you did not understand the symbolism.

You understand the book of Revelation as you have interpreted it. It may or not be correct. I already explained what the seals represent and they are not active judgments which shows me you haven't been paying attention. The first four seals represent the persecutors of the church, the fifth seal the martyrs and the six seal their future vindication. The seventh seal is a picture of the church, the remnant 144,000 that are sealed for their protection and the overcoming church that goes through the tribulation. Again, because of the symbolism of Manasseh replacing Dan we are being told that the 144,000 are not only Jews. You can't ignore this symbolism because it is crucial to the interpretation. if it was meant to show us that they are all Jews, all twelve tribes would be represented and Dan would not be missing. The seven churches represent the spiritual conditions of the church in every age cumulating to the last generation before Jesus returns. All spiritual conditions can operate in one church. The great lesson from that is that only Philadelphia is promised to be protected. The rest of the church goes through the tribulation unless they repent of their errors. This is very important to understand this principle because many Christians will be left behind if they don't repent. Of course John is being shown a picture of the overcoming church in Rev. 4. Those before the thrown are the patriarchs and the founding apostles. John would be seeing himself among them.

We know that because they are described as Candlesticks, they have to be churches with possibly two literal representatives. Symbolically what we are being shown is there will be a time when the gospel will no longer be permitted to be preached especially in Israel. They have been proposing a ban on it in Israel for the past thirty years but it has never been passed. If it ever does that surely is sign we are on the edge of the fulfillment of this prophecy. The death of the witnesses represents the silencing of the gospel by the beast empire that has come into full control just prior to the rapture of the witnesses. While the two representatives may be literally killed, as there will be many martyrs at that time (as there are today) their deaths most likely are meant to show us that the gospel can no longer be preached openly. We know when that happens there will be a supernatural continuation of the gospels spread by the angel Rev. 14:6. This could be in dreams and angelic appearances. Many Muslims are coming to Christ now because they are having dreams. I hope this helps. Thanks for your interest.

You still do not understand how symbolism works in visions. You really can't unless you have had prophetic dreams yourself. The clues in Revelation are there for a reason and are very important. For example, if the two witnesses were just two individuals, then the word "Candlestick" would not be there. That designates them as churches or at least two representatives of churches according to the usage of the word in Revelation. Candlesticks are churches. From the dreams that the Lord has given to both myself and my husband, we have learned that if one of these clues is left out when relating the dream, the entire interpretation is affected. Revelation is no different as visions are like dreams and the same rules of interpretation apply. That is why there are so many misinterpretations of Revelation because unless one has been given the gift of interpreting dreams then it really cannot be interpreted accurately.

We will have to agree to disagree.

That is untrue as evidenced by Justin Martyr's statement which is the historical evidence that the early church saw them as Jews, spiritual Jews of course not by race. A true Jew is someone who is circumcised in heart as Paul taught. Jesus said that Elijah had come already and He is referring to John the Baptist. You keep missing the point. Because a Jew is not a Jew unless the mother is a Jew then Joseph's wife was considered a Jew just because she was married to Joseph who is a similitude of Jesus therefore setting the precedent for the symbolism in Rev, 7. Again you missed the point. Dan is replaced symbolically in the vision to show us that the Jews have been cut off because of their lack of faith. That tribe in the vision represents the Jews who say they are Jews and are not in Rev. 2:9, which also confirms what I said before that a true Jew is one that has received Jesus and is a spiritual Jew, circumcised in heart. Pride goes before a fall. You have misunderstood much of the prophetic symbolism we have discussed. According to the Old Testament scriptures God describes His unfaithful people as the whore. I gave you the scripture where God calls her a harlot. Combining that with the colors that are associated with Israel and the church, the whore is referring to God's people who have abandoned or compromised the faith. At the same time the whore represents the one world governments new one world religion that persecutes all true Christians who will not compromise. As history attests, Christians have been martyred by apostate Christians in the past. That's what the inquisition has shown us. Jesus said the enemies of His people would be from their own house. The whore Babylon represents the apostate religious system that has been introduced by the beast and the Lord warns His church to come out of that apostasy. The people who are behind the one world government are in the process of developing a new religion to go along with the government. it will incorporate elements of all the religions and of course anyone who claims that Jesus is the only way will be persecuted. The beast will use the apostate Christians and Jews to promote it and when they are not needed any longer the church will be persecuted and cut off from the government. The whore is also described as a city and this is the mystery of Babylon, she is at the same time an apostate religious system and also a physical representative city which is destroyed during the time of God's wrath. The remnant church is raptured before the tribulation in chapter 11. In chapter 17 we are being shown Mystery/spiritual Babylon which has been operating for years persecuting the true believers. In other words she does not show up after the rapture. And after the rapture there will still be many Christians on earth because the five churches that are in error and who have not repented will be left behind. The only time there will be no true Christians on earth is after the tribulation when Jesus sends His angels to take the overcomers out before the time of wrath. In order to understand Revelation's time frames properly you have to use Matthew 24 as a template. If you do not understand the principles that the Book of Revelation is trying to convey then you really don't understand the book at all. The whole scenario of the whore on the beast is a warning to God's people not to compromise with the world for the sake of retaining status wealth and security.

I think you have missed my point. I never said I believed that the tribes were lost. I said that the early Christians saw themselves as the true Jews. They have been grafted in and the Jews who have not accepted the New Covenant were cut off. They can be grafted in when they accept Christ and all Israel will be saved when Jesus returns. Christians do not replace the Jews we become Jews. What makes a true Jew is not their race but their relationship with God. No one can have a relationship with God unless they come to Him through Jesus in the New Covenant. The point I was making is that because the Jews do not consider someone a Jew unless their mother is a Jew (not the father, the father is the tribe); Joseph's wife was accepted as a Jew just because she was married to Joseph, a similitude of Jesus. This is the Biblical precedent for the Gentiles being grafted in through the Messiah and why the symbolism in Rev. 7 is so important, where Manasseh replaces Dan, "the Jews who say they are Jews and are not" because they have rejected Jesus' atonement. Again, unless you understand prophetic symbolism and how it works, any interpretation of Revelation is going to be inaccurate. The description of the woman Babylon begins by telling us she is a whore. That description matches apostate Israel in the Old Testament. Any apostate compromised Christian is seated on the beast being carried by the world and not the Holy Spirit. She formicates with the kings showing us she prefers to be one with the world and not Jesus. After she is used by the beast the apostate church is attacked by the beast. This carries a very potent message to those compromised Christians today who need to repent and "Come out of her" before it is too late. Again. if we ignore the prophetic details we are going to miss the point of what God is trying to tell us, the lessons that are so important for us to know now.

The two prophets are candlesticks. They have to represent churches for there is no other application for the word candlestick in Revelation. If the word candlestick was not there then that would mean they are just two individuals. In dreams these clues are extremely important. Most likely they represent the spiritual conditions of the two churches that receive no correction from the Lord. They represent the remnant. We are dealing with prophetic symbolism like dreams. The remnant does have the power to send the fire of God's corrective word (Jer. 5:14) against their enemies and have power by prayer to affect the environment, etc. I personally know people whom God has answered their prayers in a similar manner. The plagues they send by prayer are constructive not destructive.

Regarding the remainder of your post, we will have to agree to disagree. I have to say that you are demonstrating a basic lack of understanding of prophetic symbolism and how it works. Jesus shows John very clearly that candlesticks represent churches in Rev. 1:20, therefore the two witnesses have to be churches. In this example Jesus is showing us that objects in Revelation can represent other things and unless the Lord reveals them the interpretations will not be accurate. The seven churches represent spiritual conditions of the churches in every age and in the last generation before Jesus returns they will be all operating with the same errors. The only church that is promised protection from the tribulation is Philadelphia and that is the remnant that is raptured. God is not going to rapture Jezebel's children unless they repent or they go through tribulation. It is extremely important to understand that because those errors need to be corrected, or there will be many more left behind than necessary. When someone dies, like the martyrs, because their souls are unified with the Holy Spirit they go to heaven and that is why they are seen in heaven. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven, a disembodied soul is not flesh and blood. Paul understood this fact when he said to be absent from the body is to be with the Lord. If you are happy with what your interpretation, then that is fine. I think we each have to be settled with what we understand. Again, it's okay to agree to disagree.

Ruth was a Moabite and became part of Jesus' lineage and Joseph's wife was a Gentile so to say Jewish blood is Jewish blood is not quite accurate. To be a Jew the mother had to be a Jew. Jacob told Joseph that his children would be Jews even though their mother was a Gentile. Joseph is a similitude of Jesus so in Joseph's example we are shown the union of Jew and Gentile through the Messiah. That is why Manasseh is used to replace Dan in Revelation. I said that we have to understand prophetic symbolism in order to understand Revelation properly. The insertion of Manasseh is designed to show us that these are not the literal 12 tribes, they represent the remnant church that is sealed for their protection from the tribulation. They are the Philadelphians. As I also said, the early church saw themselves as the true Jews and Justin Marty's statement, which is found in his "Dialogue with Trypho" just confirms this fact. Paul was very clear when he said the Jews have been cut off and the Gentiles have been grafted in. That is what we are shown in Rev. the grafting in of the Gentiles and the cutting off of the unbelieving Jews (Romans 11:17-22) represented by Dan, the tribe that did not receive their inheritance. Likewise no one can receive their inheritance in God unless they receive Jesus.

They are received INTO heaven (11:12) and after that is the first earthquake of the Martyrs vindication. In chapter 14 we see the 144,oo0 in heaven before the throne protected. This is the remnant the two witnesses represent, the Philadelphians who are promised protection in Rev. 3:10. Keep in mind that the great tribulation is the attack and captivity of Jerusalem (Matthew 24:15-22, Zechariah 14:1,2). This is when the antichrist is revealed and the beast comes into its fullness and starts implementing the mark. We see that period of death at the end of 14. The believers who went through it in chapter 15. Then coordinating this with Matthew, after the tribulation Jesus sends His angels to gather the remaining believers which instigates the time of wrath, the bowl plagues on the beast empire. If you take the same two groups shown in Rev. 7, lift them up in your mind and carry them to chapter 14 and 15, we see the same two groups. One was sealed for protection, the other going through it and coming out of it victorious. The righteousness of the saints is the righteousness that is imparted to us through Jesus. The saints are rewarded with white robes because they have been faithful to Him and not denied His sacrifice. The wedding is seen in Jesus' parable of the wedding feast. Matthew 22:1-14. The wedding garment is the righteousness that we received through faith in Jesus' atonement. without it no one can enter heaven. During the tribulation many professing uncommitted Christians will have denied Him and taken the mark. That's right, we are being shown the martyrs from the beginning of the church age to the end. I don't understand your last comment about Satan. The martyrs remain in heaven until the end because they have died. In the seventh seal we are being shown the remnant that is ministering until the gospel is silenced when the beast takes control and they are taken up before the trib in 14. The other group are those who have come out of tribulation. (7:8). This is the same group that we see in Rev. 15 after the tribulation at the end of 14. Does this make sense to you? Then Jesus sends His angels to gather the ones that are still alive before the wrath is poured out in the bowl judgments.

Dan was the only tribe that did not get an inheritance. The name is removed because they represent the Jews who say they are Jews and are not because they have rejected their inheritance in the Messiah. Dan is replaced by Manasseh because Manasseh is the half tribe a mix of Gentile and Jews. This is prophetic symbolism telling us that this remnant is the church. I have a quote from Justin Martyr somewhere saying that believer's in Messiah were the true Jews. It was the belief of the early church because as Paul said, the Jews were cut off. They cannot be grafted in again until they receive Jesus. You are quoting Cyrus Schofield. While John represents the Bride, in 4 he is being elevated to another level of instruction. Prior to that he was receiving direct dictation, now he would be receiving his instructions in visions. If the church is raptured in four, then why is the church seen in John in chapter ten being instructed to preach the gospel. The angel is standing with one foot on the sea nd one on the land. The beast empire rises from the sea and the antichrist from the earth. We are being shown that both these beasts are being capped and restrained until the gospel is preached. It is shut down when the witnesses are silenced. Again, they are called candlesticks in 11:4. They have to be or represent churches, the spiritual conditions of Smyrna and Philadelphia the only two churches that receive no correction form the Lord. These are the 144,000 remnant believers who are raptured just before the tribulation in Rev. 14. I think it is a mistake to associate chapter eight with the 70th week the tribulation. This is a long period of time that comprises many years. You are associating the blessed union and reunion of Jesus with His people with a judgment on His enemies? That is a stretch and does not match the lovely scene in Jesus' parable of the wedding feast at all. The end of Rev. 14, is the blood bath and captivity of Jerusalem that is the great tribulation as Jesus' described in Matt. 24. It is after that when Jesus sends His angels to gather out His church then the wrath begins with the bowl judgments. While the wrath is being poured out the marriage supper is being celebrated in heaven. It has nothing to do with Armageddon. Jesus returns with His church and the wicked are slain. The symbolism in Rev. 14 shows us that people are dying. The Lord is not killing anyone, the symbolism shows us those that are being reaped are the ones that are dying in the Lord. The angels are reaping those who are dying without Christ. The martyrs of that time are shown in Rev. 15. Again, you can take the two groups in chapter seven lift them up and place them in 14 and 15 and you see the same two groups, the Philadelphian remnant that is protected in heaven before the trib and the ones who come through it victorious. I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Hi. Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. I think from looking at some of your previous answers you are saying that you believe that the time of God's wrath will begin after the witnesses/churches are taken up? They are taken up before the tribulation, then right after the tribulation, Jesus sends His angels to get His church off the planet and then the time of wrath begins with the bowl judgments. The signs in the sky and the last great earthquake happens just before Jesus returns and slays the wicked. That's how I see it. Here is an excerpt from the chapter on the six seals. It is expository so you get one verse then an explanation as you asked for. Hope it is not too long. God bless. And when He had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the Word of God, and for the testimony which they held (verse 9). Here we behold the victims of the stampede, the martyrs of the church who have been “slain for the Word of God.” These are the uncompromised ones who live by God’s Word. We see that they have also been martyred for their testimony, which is the Gospel of Jesus, the Messiah. They are true disciples who are willing to give their lives rather than deny their Savior who bought them with His own blood. The martyrs in this vision are seen hidden under the altar. The altar is symbolic of a place of sacrifice. Their lives were sacrificed upon the altar of their faith, now they are sheltered by it, protected for all eternity by their faithfulness to the Lamb who was sacrificed to save them. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, “How long, Oh Lord, holy and true, do you not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on earth?” (Verse 10). This cry is a prayer from the depths of the altar, the memorial of their sacrifices. They know that “the LORD God of recompenses shall surely requite” (Isaiah 51:56). This altar is seen again in Chapter Eight where we see the prayers of the saints being offered up with incense before God (8:3,4). Our God is a God who answers the prayers of His people in His perfect timing and for His purposes. He responds to His beloved ones in verse eleven. – And white robes were given to every one of them: and it was said to them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren that should be killed as they were should be fulfilled. The white robes represent the righteousness of the saints that is given to them through the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, the Messiah. The robes are not earned, they are a gift and it is the wedding garment that adorns them at the marriage feast of the Lamb (Rev. 19:7,9). The martyrs are told to rest for “a little season.” That season began in the first century when the church was birthed and will commence when the Lord returns. This is a season of harvest and we are shown in this verse, that there is a quota of martyrs that must be fulfilled, for these are among the ones who have been chosen to rule and reign with their Lord on earth (Rev. 5:10). Though the loss of loved ones through martyrdom is a grief beyond measure, the beauty of God’s Word reveals a divine purpose in their suffering. The perfume of their sacrifices ascends and adorns heaven’s halls with a radiant splendor that will remain a memorial throughout eternity to what they have endured for Jesus. In these verses we beheld their fervent prayer for justice and their vindication. Now God is about to show them a brief picture of their future avenging as the sixth seal is opened. – And I beheld when He had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake, and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (verse 12). The beginning of the martyr’s vindication is announced by a great earthquake. This event occurs in the future. There are two “great earthquakes.” The first signals the beginning of the great tribulation which is initiated in Chapter Eleven after the witnesses are raptured and the seventh trumpet sounds. The second great earthquake, the likes of which have never before been seen of men (Rev. 16:18), occurs as the judgments that have been released during the warning period of the trumpets (Chapters eight through eleven) have come to their fullness just prior to the Lord’s return. It is most likely that the earthquake referred to in in verse twelve in Chapter Six is referring to this earthquake. It is accompanied by a simultaneous eclipse of the sun and the moon that is a sign that precedes the second coming. – (Joel 2:10, 31, 3:15, Isaiah 13:10, Matthew 24:29). This astronomical phenomenon is associated with “The Day of the Lord” and God’s final judgment on the wicked. – And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and I will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible (Isaiah 13:11). Now therefore be not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the LORD God of hosts a consumption even determined upon the whole earth (Isaiah 28:22). There is much that will transpire between the opening of the sixth seal and the sounding of the final seventh trumpet. In the following verses we are being shown a vision into the future of the time that directly precedes the second coming. During this period of judgment we see stars of heaven fall to the earth. – And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind (verse 13). We have been shown in Revelation’s first chapter, verse twenty, that stars can represent angels. When God’s final judgments arrive on the wicked, His punishments will also descend upon the evil fallen angels, the demonic powers in high places that have been manipulating mankind and influencing them to operate in opposition to the Word of God. The fig tree loses its fruit before it is fully ripe, signifying that the devil’s plans will not come to fruition and will be intercepted in this finale of time. We continue to view this summery of the future that is detailed for us in chapters fourteen through eighteen. – And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places (verse 14). This cataclysmic earthquake that detaches mountains and islands (man-made kingdoms and their resorts) most likely is the result of a supernatural upheaval in the heavenly realm. The resounding clash between the demonic world and God’s descending kingdom has repercussions upon the earth. It is light and darkness warring for the last time as the brilliance of God’s Truth in His Son as He descends, bursts through the foul atmosphere men have created by their rebellion against the God who made them. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and the rocks of the mountains; (verse 15. See also Isaiah 2:19). When the Light of God descends in Jesus, the evil darkness in the souls of men will try to hide their captives in the earth; the ground that these demons powers have made men to worship in the place of God. But no one can hide from the all-seeing, omnipresent eyes of God. These men who worshipped the creation more than the Creator now pray to their idol to hide them from the Truth they have rejected. – And said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us, and hide us from the face of Him that sits on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:” (verse 16). They have at last recognized God’s authority over them, His throne; and even with this realization they will not repent. Great horror has fallen upon these men who have persecuted God’s church and rejected His salvation. For the great day of His wrath is come, and who shall be able to stand? (verse 17). That is a very good question. ‘Who shall be able to stand?’ – Only those who have built their house on the solid foundation of the Lamb of God. I wonder if John viewed this portrait of the future he was witnessing in slow motion? Was he allowed to study the terror he saw on the faces of the wicked as they vainly try to escape from their coming judgment? And did this vision of the reward of the wicked, cause John to praise the Lord even more in gratitude for his own salvation? As we stand with the apostle in this moment, we should also offer God much praise for His love and kindness to those who He has called to salvation through the sacrifice of His Son. The martyrs resting beneath the golden altar at the foot of God’s throne, also are witnessing the fulfillment of their prayers, as the wicked at last, are removed from the earth as Jesus prophesied. – For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come (Matthew 24:38-42). These evil ones who have created their own hell by rebelling against God’s Word, are seen reaping what they have sown and harvesting the reward they deserve. We watch the earth tremble as its soil is tilled and prepared for the return of Jesus, the Messiah. The ground that has been polluted by sin, is now cultivated for a new harvest of righteousness. In Chapter Six we have witnessed a prophetic preparation for the days ahead. We have been shown the persecutors, the persecuted and a promise that in the end God’s justice will prevail and the wicked will be overcome. We are being prepared for a great journey into the future that may just be tomorrow. With this in mind, we prepare for our roles in this drama and we wait with anticipation as the next vision is about to be revealed in Chapter Seven.

You are not far off. Most of the misinterpretations come from people following Cyrus Scofield. He made many mistakes. A little digging into his background reveals that he was supported by the people who wanted to establish Israel to be the place from which they want the antichirst to rule from, the people who are trying to form the one world government beast system. The Lord showed me also that Babylon being carried, or moved by the beast is the apostate religious system. People mistook it as the Catholic church because of the colors, but these are also the colors associated with the Jews (Proverbs 31:21,22). Any apostate religious system will be willing to join Babylon and take the mark. The Lord showed me that in His parable of the ten virgins half could buy and sell. Because of the timing, just before Jesus' return we are shown that half the church had taken the mark. That's why I believe understanding Revelation properly is important, it was written to encourage God's people and to warn. Mystery Babylon is the spiritual Babylon, there is a physical representative city that will be literally destroyed just before the Lord returns. It is possibly the "city of terrible nations" (Isaiah 25:3). One city with many nations, sounds like New York's United nations to me. According to a former illuninati member who became a Christian, they have divided the earth into ten regions each related to a crowned head of Europe which matches Rev. ten crowns. They are coming from the seven heads. The heads are referred to as mountains in Rev. 17:9. Mountains are sometimes used to represent empires. Heads represent the intelligences behind those empires. The same demonic powers that were operating to control the previous 7 world empires represented by the heads, will be operating in the last generation through an elite group of "Heads" that are orchestrating the beast empire. Also, a pastor I know was visiting his son who worked for the department of transportation in Washington, D.C., so he was allowed into one of the buildings that is not open to the public. He told me that there is a 666 in the logo on the floor. Babylon is represented by a winged lion in Daniel. Before I learned that I had a dream where I saw a winged lion standing behind the stature of liberty. Like you, I let the Lord teach me. The first thing He taught me was don't listen to Cyrus Scofield!

There are a zillion different interpretations of Revelation and I have to stick with what I was shown. The Lord gave my husband and I the gift to interpret prophetic dreams, we have had many of them, and an understanding of prophetic symbolism is really necessary to understand it because it is mostly comprised of visions. Details are extremely important. For example, Manasseh replaces Dan in Rev. 7. Because Dan is missing, that tells us that these are not the literal twelve tribes of Israel. They are a mix of Gentile and Jews, Just what Manasseh, Joseph's Gentile/Jew son represents. The early church saw themselves as the true Jews so they would have interpreted the 144,000 as the church. Because they are taken up in chapter 7, they represent the remnant. Also in fourteen they are seen on Mount Zion which represents a place of intimacy with the Lord and they are also seen worshipping before the throne. The throne is always in heaven in Rev. so we are being shown the raptured remnant that is protected from the tribulation, the Philadelphians. I saw the marriage supper of the Lamb taking place in the period of time when the Lord 's sign appears in the sky, and while the wrath is being poured out on the beast's kingdom. Then the bride returns to rule with Jesus and He judges what's left. The seven year period, if indeed it is literal and it may not be, happening from the end of 11 to the end of 14. Like I said, there are a multitude of interpretations and we have to be comfortable with what we are shown. The important message of the book is that God sees the suffering of His church, she will be vindicated and Jesus is triumphant.

I did an expository study of Revelation that took six years. One thing we have to understand is that the majority of the book is comprised of visions which are like dreams and they have to be interpreted as such. In other words, you can't interpret it like an ordinary book, it has to be revealed. I can only show you how it was revealed to me. We also need to understand that some of the visions are progressive and cover long periods of time, while others are details that are happening as the other visions are unfolding. For example when John is shown the beast rising out of the sea, this is a process that evolves over many years before the Empire has full control. It all just does not happen within a three year or seven year period. The Book was originally written to encourage the persecuted church. That is the significance of Chapter six. God is assuring His martyrs that they will be vindicated. The first seven chapters deal with the church which is the preparation for the rest of the visions. Chapter eight begins the warning period of the trumpets and is not the tribulation as many have been taught. Trumpets are used in scripture to call religious assemblies and before a war. In Revelation's context it is war. The symbolism is telling us that this is a time of preparation and warning. The plagues are released in this chapter and they match the ones in chapter 16. They evolve over a long period of time. During this time John, who represents the church is seen being commissioned to preach the gospel in chapter ten. In eleven which may begin the first three years of the trib there is evangelism in Israel which is stopped just as the beast comes into full power and the witnesses are silenced. While there may be two literal witnesses, they are candlesticks which means they have to be or represent churches. There is no other application for the word candlestick in Revelation. It means church. Their death shows the martyrdom of God's people, but symbolically it is showing us that the church can no longer evangelize and that is when the rapture happens. The witnesses are called up, and are possibly ministering in the first three years of the trib and the beast is in full control in the second half and the actual blood bath of that time is shown to us in the last part of chapter fourteen which is the tribulation the attack on Israel. After that begins the time of wrath before Jesus returns. This is the period of the bowls. So basically to break it down for you - Chapters 1-7 The introductory chapters that deal with preparing the church. Chapters 8- 11 - the Warning period of the Trumpets, and the woes which have to do with physical and spiritual warfare, "The Beginning of Sorrows." Chapter 12 - is what I call a bridge chapter. It signifies that there is going to be a change in the narrative and gives a condensed history of the spiritual principles behind the conflict. It connects us to - Chapter 13 which is a description of the Beast empire and the antichrist as they are coming into power at this time. Chapter fourteen shows us the remnant that has been raptured in heaven just before the tribulation at the end of that chapter. Chapter 15, is a picture of the overcoming church that has gone through the tribulation and is seen victorious in heaven. If you take the two groups in chapter seven and transport them in your mind to chapters 14 and 15, we see the same two groups. One has been sealed to be protected from it the others go through it. Chapter 16 begins the bowl judgments, the time of wrath when the church is no longer on earth just before the Lord returns. Chapters 17 and 18 - details of this period and Babylon's fall. Chapter 19 - 22 Jesus returns, He reigns for 1000 years and then God wraps everything up. There, I have just condensed a three hundred page book in a few paragraphs it's the best I can do.