Charlie744

Luigi, I understand you are comfortable with your interpretation that Chapters 7-12 are all end time events, but I would like to ask if you are willing to discuss what verses in Daniel - whether we start in 7 or 8, offer you that understanding. I think it is safe to say that your understanding of Daniel (where most of the Hebrew chapters are presenting end time events), ARE “today’s accepted interpretations,” but I don’t think so! But there is no reason to discuss a different interpretation unless you are truly willing to consider them. Let me know, thanks.

If you do not mind, I would like to add a very important point regarding the “confirmation of the Covenant (New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34). There is a mistranslation in these important MESSIANIC verses: Verses 9:24-27 speak of the restoration of His people and His city. It discusses the physical and literal elements that are to restored after the Jews return to Jerusalem. This is what the 70 weeks of years prophecy is all about. Before the end of the 69th week, all the elements would be fully restored in Jerusalem except for ONE item- the Ark of the Covenant. The Jews were tasked to complete all the physical elements in this restoration process but they had no ability to restore the Ark. Only God could do this! So, on the very first day of the 70th week of the prophecy, Jesus arrived and would be baptized and anointed. This began HIS SEVEN YEAR MINISTRY (the last 7 years were set aside by God for Him to complete / fulfill His parts in the restoration process. It was Jesus who came to confirm the New Covenant and He would and did fulfill that DURING / WITHIN this last 7 year period. There is NO 7 year agreement but an agreement or covenant that HE confirmed DURING THOSE LAST SEVEN YEARS OF THE PROPHECY. There is NO “FOR” in this verse. The true interpretation / meaning is that HE (9:27), the Messiah will confirm the New Covenant in (within) this final prophetic week.

Okay and thank you for your responses!

I agree with your comment that the Jews still reject that Jesus was not their Messiah and that is exactly why they want to reconstruct the Temple and reinstate the Levitical ceremonies. But that is exactly why God turned away from them for the past 2000 years-!they rejected Him and still do! They can do whatever they want to do… so can the Muslims or the Hindu’s, etc. But the Temple, the Levitical ceremonies, the animal sacrifices have BEEN DONE AWAY WITH . Jesus FULFILLED THEM ALL.

Okay and thanks.

I was going to respond to these comments from you but I don’t think I will (at least not at this time). It is clear you are really not putting any effort in this most difficult interpretations. “Falling off a cliff,” “means nothing,” “don’t see anything…” - you want Daniel to tell you exactly how to build the watch! God does not write any of His Word that way. All I would ask is for you and others to put these interpretations together to form a complete, consistent and most importantly, a set of prophecies that focus on the Messiah and His plan of salvation found THROUGHOUT Daniel.

No, the 7 and 62 timed sections are found in the “restorative” two verses. And it is not UNTIL these are completed do we see the arrival of the Messiah. However, you are entitled to your own interpretation.

Yes, AFTER the 7 and the 62 weeks then the Messiah will arrive. Meaning, 70 comes after 69. Jesus will arrive on the first day of the 70th week. AND HE DID! Yes it does but I don’t believe you are looking at these 4 verses correctly to pull out the interpretation. 1) the purpose of the 70 weeks of years prophecy was to reveal the “complete” period for the “restoration” of the city and the Sanctuary after the Babylonian destruction. 2) God would give Daniel two sets of verses. In 9:24-25, he is given the “restorative” verses. These only address the physical and spiritual elements that will be restored once they return to Jerusalem. 2) God separates this “plan of restoration” into 3 specific sections: the first period or section is for 49 years. This represents the physical elements (Temple, city, walls and streets, etc.). These elements are to be restored by the Jews. This is their responsibility. Then, there is the middle section - the largest timed period of 434 literal years. However, Hod does not identify ANY elements that will be completed during this time frame. Its purpose seems to ensure that by framing the “arrival and destruction” of the Messiah can only be interpreted by using this section the way He does. He ensures we can calculate His arrival by recognizing both the completion of the first AND second time sections of 69 weeks. This is only found in the “restorative” verse of 25. But He will only use the second time section of 62 weeks to identify His destruction in 26. He is telling us in the “Restorative” 2 verses His plan to restore everything that was either destroyed or taken away by the Babylonians. 3) His “plan” was to restore His city and the Sanctuary and the way of life as it was before the destruction. 4) But His people rejected Him. Consequently, it was because of THEIR rejection that He would give us the two verses that reveal the “destruction” of everything He set up to be restored after the Jews returned. 5) Getting back to the “Restorative” verses, God would also identify what would take place in the last week of the prophecy - the 70th week. During this week, Jesus would arrive to begin his ministry and, symbolically, He would be or represent the FINAL piece of furniture that MUST be restored in the Sanctuary- He would represent the restoration of the Ark of the Covenant. It was the first element that was taken away (Jeremiah), and it would be the last thing restored. Everything was exactly restored in the reverse order they were taken or destroyed. Thus, the reason Jesus arrived AFTER the 69 weeks. God had set aside this final 7 years for His Messiah to restore / complete His mission. 6) Now, if we move on to the 2 “destructive” verses, this is where we find the exact same elements that WERE restored in 24-25, will now be revealed to be destroyed. Once again, we have 2 types of elements to consider: those physical elements that WERE restored will be destroyed by the PEOPLE of the prince who is to come. The physical elements were indeed destroyed by Titus in 70 AD. Thus, the remaining element of course is the Messiah, who will be “cut off” (crucified) exactly 3.5 WITHIN the last week of the prophecy, or, “in the midst of the week.” 7) the “prince who is to come” is very purposeful. This prophecies the coming of the Little horn. He will succeed pagan Rome (the people) after pagan Rome is slain (7:11). These same people that were within pagan Rome will now be under the little horn of papal Rome. And this is exactly what happened! No, again, we have the same elements being restored in 24-25 that are now being discussed as being destroyed. If you create a “chiastic structure for these 4 verses, the mirror each other. Two sides of the mountain if you will. The people of the prince will destroy the physical elements, and the Messiah (he) will be destroyed by the rejection and crucifixion by His people. These verses, whether in Daniel or other books of the Bible were not given to follow the English rules of grammar. If you look into the Hebrew language, you will find a very order of things: where the verb precedes the noun. Yes, the Messiah is the Lamb of God who took away the sin of the world. Because He is the perfect sacrifice, He has down away with the need for any further animal sacrifices, offerings, etc. Also, there is no further need for a Temple, the Sanctuary, the Levitical ceremonies, etc. Jesus had replaced or fulfilled them all. No. I would ask you to consider my previous comments on this… thanks.

a) Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week; First, if you do not find this entire chapter is messianic and speaks to the God given mssion to the Messiah, then you can stop reading now. Daniel is not written for the people some 2600 years in the future. It is mentioned no less than twice by Gabriel that these visions are for your people and your city (Daniel's). Secondly, EVERYONE attempts to match the actors and events within Daniel to our history books as though that was God's intention - to tell us what is going to happen to these conflicts, nations that come and go and NO bearing on the reason He came to the earth.. Daniel is not simply meant to recount our history. God is giving us these 4 kingdoms so we can place His prophetic messages in the right place in the right time. And, He is having us walk along side His people through each of the 4 kingdoms as they travel from Jerusalem (when they would not repent), to Babyon where He would punish them, then to their return to Jerusalem and the COMPLETE RESTORATION OF THEIR CITY AND THE SANCTUARY / TEMPLE. This is all captured and prophecised by God in the 70 weeks of years prophecy. In verses 24 and 25, God gives us the two "restorative" verses that provides what will be restored, when they will be restored and who is given the responsibility to restore them. Thus, evBrything would be restored from the Babylonian exile BY THE END OF THE 69TH WEEK OF THE 70 WEEKS. The ONLY piece of furniture, the missing woud be the Ark of the Covenant which was taken away by Jeremiah so the Babylonians could not obtain it. In verse 25, Daniel writes it will be at the end of the 7 and 62 weeks UNTIL THE MESSIAH. This has one and only one meaning... the Messiah will arrive AFTER THE COMPLETION OF THE 69 WEEKS. There is only one week left of the 70 and this is the week that God would "set aside" for the coming Messiah to: fulfill all elements in 9:24, set up His kingom on earth, and He would symbolically represent the restoration of the Ark of the Covenant - the restorationj of the Presence of God once again in the Sanctuary. The Jews were not given this responsibility to restore it because only God can do it. Juesus was also sent to "confirm" the New Covenant that was prophecized in Jeremiah. Now, He would place His Word, His commandments in our hearts.... and He would send His Holy Spirit to us on Pentecost. Now, did these things happen exactly as above? I hope you can say yes to that. That is my proof! b)But in the middle of the week What does this term mean? It can only mean one thing. In keeping with the messianic messages in Chapter 9, we find in the two "destructive" verses that the Messiah will be "cut off" or crucified. Now, Jesus was baptized in the Jordan by John and anointed by His Father on the very first day of the 70th week. There is only these last 7 years of the prophecy left. Jesus would begin His ministry 40 days after being baptized since He went into the desert to be tempted by the devil. Then, He would go throughout Israel preaching the Good News. In exactly 3.5 years, He would be rejected by His people and He would be crucified. Now, this 3.5 years is exactly in "the midst of the week." The only week the Messiah would be on the earth and the last week of the prophecy. Coincidence? Can you see just how accurate these prophecies are? c) He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. Now, this should also be another easy one. Jesus was / is the Lamb of God. He came to offer Himself as a sacrifice for OUR sins. He willingly went to the cross for each one of us. And by doing this, He also put an end to any further need of the animal sacrifices within the Levitical ceremonies. Further, He became our High Priest, our Temple, our Sanctuary. He did away with all of the Leviticcal ceremonies and practices that were designed to remove their (Jews) sin. Now, they would only have to accept His sacrifice as the Lamb of God and their sins would be forgiven. The Temple, the Sanctuary, the animals, Passover, etc., had now fulfilled their God givien mission that was recorded by Moses in Leviticus. There is absoluely no righteousness, holiness, purpose for the Temple, the Sanctuary, the animal sacrifices, the holy vessels, the ceremonies ever again. They have now become "common" and will never house the presence of God again. So, the Jews can construct 10 new Temples and reinstate all the Levitical sacrifices and ceremonies as they like --- they will never have any value in God's eyes again. d) And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, This is one of the most difficult verses to interpret. There are two major issues to define here. The first is the definitiion of just what does this term "abomination" refer to. Well, it certainly cannot refer to a building, a structure, a city, etc., because those things were no longer "holy" or their destruction could not be considered to be able to "CAUSE" a terrible result or consequences if they were destroyed. Above, I mentioned that after the cross , these physical structures and events were no longer of value - God had replaced them all. So if they were destroyed, it would be a purely "secular" event (doesn't matter that the Jews continued to carry on the same ceremonies for another 70 years - if they had accepted Jesus, they would not have done so). Thus, their important and their destrution was no important because their mission within God's plan of salvation was fulfilled. So, what could possibly rise to a level that would CAUSE God to do something to His people? One and only one thing. Because they rejected and crucified their Messiah, this would be the most "abominable" act in man's history. nothing could equal this act. And on another view, even though the Messiah would never sin or be found impure, He would also become "an abomination" in the eyes of His Father. When Jesus went to the cross, He would willingly take on the sin of the world. At that time, He would be seen as an "abomination" and impure thing, in God's eyes. But this was what He was sent to do -- to take on our filthy sin. If you look into the Levitcus laws regarding the Passover ceremonies, you will find that everything - the Temple, the Sanctuary, the High Priest, the animals to be sacrificed, MUST ALL BE PURE AND CLEANSED - NO BLEMISH, ETC. Jesus would indeed fulfill each and everyone of those laws, but when He accepted all of our sins, He would no longer be pure / clean in the eyes of His Father and He would be deemed an "abomination." The other side of this phrase is the termm "desolation." Since the Temple, the Sanctuary, the sacred vessels, the city and the walls, etc., were now "common" and were replaced by the Messiah, their destruction had no value. The only thing that had value to God were His people who rejected Him and thus, God would make Himself "desolate" to them for the next 2000 years. He would turn His face and not give them access to Him for the entire "time of the Gentiles." Take a look at Leviticus 26:18-19. Here God is telling His people what would befall them should they fail to harken to Him or obey Him, etc. Then He will make your heaven like "iron" and the earth like "brass." The symbolism of the iron means He would cut them off from Him. They would no longer have accesse to Him.... e) Even until the consummation, which is determined, Well, if you understand part d) above, then this part of the phrase is quite easy. God will made Himself "desolate" to His people UNTIL the consumation - until it is finished. But what must be finished? Because of their rejection of their Messiah, He would turn away from them. He would send out His people (pottery clay in Daniel 2) who would accept Him as their Messiah and preach the Good News to the world - both Jew and Gentile. Thus, God would make available salvation to the Gentiles. So the "consumation" will be equal to the "time of the Gentiles." Only God knows the end of this period. Is poured out on the [l]desolate.” Once again, this is a continuation of one of the most difficult phrases in all the Bible. God will and has poured out His wrath on His people for their rejection of Him. Tbey will indeed become "desolate" TO THEIR GOD. This term has nothing to do with brick and mortar. So, that is my proof. And you are free to Google Father Ribera of the Jesuits (RCC), who in the late `16th century created the 7 year tribulation theory largely by corrupting these MESSIANIC VERSES and completed /fulfilled God's 70 weeks of years prophecy. If you could see just how evil they zre where they have taken the most important event in the history of mankind and sent them into the future and attributed them to some mythical figure that cannot be found in Daniel or the NT.

Thank you for your reply! I will certainly provide my "proof" soon, but I am very surprised to see your "proof." I apologize in advance, but there is no proof on your side. These comments, which are quite similar to those that contend these verses are end times events, cannot be supported.... I have found in my studies, that those that have placed these, and other verses in Daniel far into the future, have done so for two reasons: 1) they were unable to match the actors or events in our history books to the actors or events within these difficult verses in Daniel. Because there is no matching actors or events to match up, 2) and regardless of whether you accept it, the 7 year tribulation is absolutely a made up theory by the Jesuits in the late 16th century where they took these selected verses and threw them some 500 years into the future. Yet, you on more than one occassion have asked me for "proof." In fact, my previous answers did provide the pro0f you requested but you rejected it ... I do not understand why you fail to see how the actual events and actors regarding 9:27 speak to the Messiah - especially when the entire Chapter 9 is about God's forgiveness that leads to having Grabriel give Daniel His detailed plan of restoration for his people and his city from Babylon. In any event, I will soon respond with my thoughts on these five verses and ask you to consider them to His plan of salvation and His first coming, His cruciixion, and the punishment He will bestow on His people and His city. This book is all about the Messiah and His plan of salvation for mankind... there is nothing in Daniel that is concerned with some mythical anti-Christ figure. In fact, while I am preparing my response, I would kindly ask if you have ANY proof that a literal anti-Christ figure will be taught in Daniel or the NT. And the little horn is the little horn... he is not some anti-Christ person.... Chapter 7 alone provides the necessary characteristics, actions, and the timing of his coming to properly identify him.....

Thank you. Ok, I would like to discuss some things and since we are on the subject of the 70th week, we might begin with this. You mentioned above that you do not concern yourself with others interpretations - fine. And to be candid, this is how I decided to study Daniel because the many scholars, academics and theologians that have produced "today's accepted interpretations," cannot agree with each other and their interpretations can be miles apart. Consequently, I learned their interpretations (many different ones) and, after 5 years, I completed my study which did not look at all like thier interpretations. Now, based on your comment above, you look to the scriptures and then you determine your own interpretations - how they speak to you. Therefore, in a sense, we have / are doing the same thing. So, since we both have access to the same set of verses, theoretically, should comwe out with the same or similar interpretations. But we don't. Now, according to your last sentence, you would be happy to look at anything that I think can provide PROOF. So, I think it is fair to hold you to the same standard. If we focus ONLY on 9:27, I would ask if you might take each of the five parts of the verse (a -e), and offer your interpretation for the separate part along with YOUR proof: 27 a) Then he shall confirm a [k]covenant with many for one week; b)But in the middle of the week c) He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. d) And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, e) Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the [l]desolate.” I will be doing the same for my interpretations.

If you do not mind, is there a verse or an interpretation found within "today's accepted interpretations," that you might be having some difficulty accepting? This could be related to the 70 weeks of years prophecy or another issue within Daniel? Thanks.

Very kind of you to say that! Best wishes!!

Would you mind giving the verse that says there will be a literal “anti-Christ” figure? Thanks.

Thanks for your responses...

Yes, it specifically mentions "it is for Daniel's city and people," not God's city and people because the Book of Daniel is written to the Jews who will be returning to Jerusalem after the exile. It can only be relevant to them since after the cross, God would disperse all of His people, allow the Romans to destroy the city, the Temple, etc. Only Daniel's people are given these prophecies since it speaks directly to the "restoration" of the city and the Sanctuary and their way of life as it was prior to the Babylonian exile. But of course, God does provide some very important prophecies that will take place AFTER the cross. Yes, in two places within Daniel it is mentioned that these prophecies will be sealed or shut up, etc. And each of them have very different meanings. In the verse 8:26, there are two mentions of the English word "visions." The first mention of vision in Hebrew is the word "mareh." This specifically speaks to the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy found in 8:14. This type of "vision" is a short term type of vision that speaks to an "appearance" or "sight" type vision. Meaning, this specifically refers to the appearance of the coming Messiah - it is He that refers to the 2300 days prophecy. But in the second mention of "vision," in verse 26, we find it is translated from the Hebrew word "chazon." This is quite different than the "mareh" vision. The "chazon" vision is a long term vision given by Gabriel. It covers the entire prophetic vision beginning with the 70 weeks of years to the end of time when the Messiah will return. Here is how this works: 1) the long term vision (chazon) that Gabriel will give to Daniel covers everything from 457 BC to His return, 2) the 70 weeks of years prophecy in Chapter 9 covers everything from 457 BC to 33/34 AD - the end of the 490 years, 3) the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy (mareh vision) is found within the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy and speaks to the Messiah. In this Chapter 8, Daniel is instructed to "seal up" the vision. This is not because it is to be kept quiet or secret until the end of time, but because it is written ONLY for the Jews when they return to Jerusalem. God is not giving His Messianic prophecies to the Gentiles but to His people. Remember, at that time of Chapters 6, 7, 8 and 9, Daniel is still in Babylon. Only Chapter 9 of the 4 is given to Daniel after Babylon was conquered. These prophecies, unlike the dream in Chapter 2 or the vision in Chapter 7 are written in Aramaic. In 8:16, Gabriel is instructed by God to make him understand the "mareh" vision - the short term vision. This reflects the time of the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. In 8:17, Gabriel tells Daniel the "vision" (chazon or long term vision) refers to the time of the end (truly end times). So, one "vision" speaks to the Messiah within the Chapter 9 prophecy, while the other "vision" speaks to all of the prophecies up till the end of time. In Chapter 12, Daniel is told to "seal up the book." Again, this does not mean to keep it secret or that we are not permitted to understand what it is saying, rather, God is telling us that this is the last prophecies He will give to Daniel until His second coming. They are complete and we have all the prophetic information He has deemed to give us prior to His coming in the first century. God is revealing His prophecies not trying to hide them from us. I certainly agree with you completely. And that is indeed also prophesized. EVERY interpretation I have read contends the AOD, or the "abomination that causes desolation" refers to one of three possible events: 1) the destruction caused by AE about 200 years before the arrival of the Messiah,or, 2) it reflects the destruction that took place in 70 AD, or, 3) it reflects the destruction that will take place in the future when a 3rd Temple will be constructed. But this AOD does not refer to any one of these. It specifically refers to the cross. This most "abominable act" that was perpetrated against the Messiah by His people is indeed the "abomination that will CAUSE desolation" Not only are we to consider this term as referring to the "abominable act," but also if we look into Leviticus, we will find this term "abomination" defined as it relates to the Levitical ceremonies - certainly the Passover ceremony where any "unclean or impure" thing corrupts the Temple, the High Priest of the sacrifical Lamb, etc., is an "abomination" in the site of the Lord. Now, Jesus is indeed pure and never sinned, however, when He took on the sin of the world, He indeed becams "impure / unclean / an abomination" in the eyes of God. Thus, according to the laws in Leviticus, this unclean thing would be taken outside the city gates and thrown away. Jesus, was indeed taken and crucified outside the city walls. And it is because of this that God would punish His people for rejecting and crucifying their Messiah. God would "make desolate" Him from His people for over 2000 years. He would "turn His face from them" until the "Times of the Gentiles" is complete. This is the "consequences to His people for rejecting their Messiah. Agreed. I agree with much of what you are saying but, if I assume what you are saying about a "gap" in Chapter 9, I would like to mention there is absolutely no "gap" in Chapter 9. Everything that was to be restored after the Jews returned to Jerusalem was completed. Everything the Messiah (Ark of the Covenant or Presence of God in the Holy of Holies) was also completed. There was nothing left to complete that needed to be completed for the "restoration of the city and the Sanctuary." And that would bring us to the last week of the prophecy. Everything was restored, the last piece of furniture in the Sanctuary was restored by the coming Messiah. He arrived on the very first day of the 70th week and He was given this last week to fulfill His God given mission - the Jews had completed theirs by the end of the 69th week. Now it is Jesus's turn. And despite that He was crucified exactly 3.5 years WITHIN the last 7 years of the prophecy, He would indeed fulfill all that God had given Him to complete. Consequently, there is nothing left to complete or fulfill even though He was "cut off" in the "midst of the week." You are correct, God had given all the prophecies in Daniel that were necessary for them to expect and recognize their Messiah. They were expecting Him to come when He did, but they were looking for a King not a suffering servant. There is absolutely no way they could conceive their God would come as a mortal man. And for this man to claim He is God... was simply too much for them to bear. Again, thank you for your comments. Please respond to me and let me know your thoughts - pro or con and also tell me what you mean in the last paragraph when you mention the 1260 days.... I don't know where that comes from. Thanks again.

Yes, it specifically mentions "it is for Daniel's city and people," not God's city and people because the Book of Daniel is written to the Jews who will be returning to Jerusalem after the exile. It can only be relevant to them since after the cross, God would disperse all of His people, allow the Romans to destroy the city, the Temple, etc. Only Daniel's people are given these prophecies since it speaks directly to the "restoration" of the city and the Sanctuary and their way of life as it was prior to the Babylonian exile. But of course, God does provide some very important prophecies that will take place AFTER the cross. Yes, in two places within Daniel it is mentioned that these prophecies will be sealed or shut up, etc. And each of them have very different meanings. In the verse 8:26, there are two mentions of the English word "visions." The first mention of vision in Hebrew is the word "mareh." This specifically speaks to the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy found in 8:14. This type of "vision" is a short term type of vision that speaks to an "appearance" or "sight" type vision. Meaning, this specifically refers to the appearance of the coming Messiah - it is He that refers to the 2300 days prophecy. But in the second mention of "vision," in verse 26, we find it is translated from the Hebrew word "chazon." This is quite different than the "mareh" vision. The "chazon" vision is a long term vision given by Gabriel. It covers the entire prophetic vision beginning with the 70 weeks of years to the end of time when the Messiah will return. Here is how this works: 1) the long term vision (chazon) that Gabriel will give to Daniel covers everything from 457 BC to His return, 2) the 70 weeks of years prophecy in Chapter 9 covers everything from 457 BC to 33/34 AD - the end of the 490 years, 3) the 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy (mareh vision) is found within the last week of the 70 weeks of years prophecy and speaks to the Messiah. In this Chapter 8, Daniel is instructed to "seal up" the vision. This is not because it is to be kept quiet or secret until the end of time, but because it is written ONLY for the Jews when they return to Jerusalem. God is not giving His Messianic prophecies to the Gentiles but to His people. Remember, at that time of Chapters 6, 7, 8 and 9, Daniel is still in Babylon. Only Chapter 9 of the 4 is given to Daniel after Babylon was conquered. These prophecies, unlike the dream in Chapter 2 or the vision in Chapter 7 are written in Aramaic. In 8:16, Gabriel is instructed by God to make him understand the "mareh" vision - the short term vision. This reflects the time of the end of the 70 weeks of years prophecy. In 8:17, Gabriel tells Daniel the "vision" (chazon or long term vision) refers to the time of the end (truly end times). So, one "vision" speaks to the Messiah within the Chapter 9 prophecy, while the other "vision" speaks to all of the prophecies up till the end of time. In Chapter 12, Daniel is told to "seal up the book." Again, this does not mean to keep it secret or that we are not permitted to understand what it is saying, rather, God is telling us that this is the last prophecies He will give to Daniel until His second coming. They are complete and we have all the prophetic information He has deemed to give us prior to His coming in the first century. God is revealing His prophecies not trying to hide them from us. I certainly agree with you completely. And that is indeed also prophesized. EVERY interpretation I have read contends the AOD, or the "abomination that causes desolation" refers to one of three possible events: 1) the destruction caused by AE about 200 years before the arrival of the Messiah,or, 2) it reflects the destruction that took place in 70 AD, or, 3) it reflects the destruction that will take place in the future when a 3rd Temple will be constructed. But this AOD does not refer to any one of these. It specifically refers to the cross. This most "abominable act" that was perpetrated against the Messiah by His people is indeed the "abomination that will CAUSE desolation" Not only are we to consider this term as referring to the "abominable act," but also if we look into Leviticus, we will find this term "abomination" defined as it relates to the Levitical ceremonies - certainly the Passover ceremony where any "unclean or impure" thing corrupts the Temple, the High Priest of the sacrifical Lamb, etc., is an "abomination" in the site of the Lord. Now, Jesus is indeed pure and never sinned, however, when He took on the sin of the world, He indeed becams "impure / unclean / an abomination" in the eyes of God. Thus, according to the laws in Leviticus, this unclean thing would be taken outside the city gates and thrown away. Jesus, was indeed taken and crucified outside the city walls. And it is because of this that God would punish His people for rejecting and crucifying their Messiah. God would "make desolate" Him from His people for over 2000 years. He would "turn His face from them" until the "Times of the Gentiles" is complete. This is the "consequences to His people for rejecting their Messiah. Agreed. I agree with much of what you are saying but, if I assume what you are saying about a "gap" in Chapter 9, I would like to mention there is absolutely no "gap" in Chapter 9. Everything that was to be restored after the Jews returned to Jerusalem was completed. Everything the Messiah (Ark of the Covenant or Presence of God in the Holy of Holies) was also completed. There was nothing left to complete that needed to be completed for the "restoration of the city and the Sanctuary." And that would bring us to the last week of the prophecy. Everything was restored, the last piece of furniture in the Sanctuary was restored by the coming Messiah. He arrived on the very first day of the 70th week and He was given this last week to fulfill His God given mission - the Jews had completed theirs by the end of the 69th week. Now it is Jesus's turn. And despite that He was crucified exactly 3.5 years WITHIN the last 7 years of the prophecy, He would indeed fulfill all that God had given Him to complete. Consequently, there is nothing left to complete or fulfill even though He was "cut off" in the "midst of the week." You are correct, God had given all the prophecies in Daniel that were necessary for them to expect and recognize their Messiah. They were expecting Him to come when He did, but they were looking for a King not a suffering servant. There is absolutely no way they could conceive their God would come as a mortal man. And for this man to claim He is God... was simply too much for them to bear. Again, thank you for your comments. Please respond to me and let me know your thoughts - pro or con and also tell me what you mean in the last paragraph when you mention the 1260 days.... I don't know where that comes from. Thanks again.

Yes, I agree. But I do not think this is one of them. This is a conviction of the "ceramic clay," those Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah. But I do not believe this is found in any one of the many verses about the little horn in Daniel 7 and 8. And sorry for repeating myself, but there is absolutely no mention of an anti-Christ figure in Daniel or ANY book of the NT. There is only the mention of the "anti-Christ" spirit which is anything that is "against the teachings of Jesus." Again, no literal "anti-Christ" person.... I would respectfully ask that you might consider the prophecies in Daniel 7 and 8 where God reveals the coming of the little horn (out of pagan Rome, the 4th beast kingdom. And what you might also want to consider is verse 7:11, where God reveals this same 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body is destroyed. Indeed this came true around the late 400 AD period. Pagan Rome had declined and would soon come to its end. The Christian church would have grown tremendously in power and might during this same period, and the Christian church, headed by the Roman bishop would succeed pagan Rome. Of course, the Roman bishop would be come to be known (given to himself) as the Vicar of Christ - the Pope. - the little horn who would come to sit atop the 4th kingdom beast that would now be identified as papal Rome. He is not the anti-Christ - but he is the little horn. No, they certainly call Jesus their God, but in name only.... they do not do the will of God. If they claim the papacy is God on earth, and equal to God, and if we ignore ALL the other false teachings and practices of the RCC, all the millions of people they murdered, etc., do you think that is enough evidence to demonstrate how they have placed themselves equal to or above Jesus?

Yes, I agree. But I do not think this is one of them. This is a conviction of the "ceramic clay," those Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah. But I do not believe this is found in any one of the many verses about the little horn in Daniel 7 and 8. And sorry for repeating myself, but there is absolutely no mention of an anti-Christ figure in Daniel or ANY book of the NT. There is only the mention of the "anti-Christ" spirit which is anything that is "against the teachings of Jesus." Again, no literal "anti-Christ" person.... I would respectfully ask that you might consider the prophecies in Daniel 7 and 8 where God reveals the coming of the little horn (out of pagan Rome, the 4th beast kingdom. And what you might also want to consider is verse 7:11, where God reveals this same 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome) will be slain and its body is destroyed. Indeed this came true around the late 400 AD period. Pagan Rome had declined and would soon come to its end. The Christian church would have grown tremendously in power and might during this same period, and the Christian church, headed by the Roman bishop would succeed pagan Rome. Of course, the Roman bishop would be come to be known (given to himself) as the Vicar of Christ - the Pope. - the little horn who would come to sit atop the 4th kingdom beast that would now be identified as papal Rome. He is not the anti-Christ - but he is the little horn. No, they certainly call Jesus their God, but in name only.... they do not do the will of God. If they claim the papacy is God on earth, and equal to God, and if we ignore ALL the other false teachings and practices of the RCC, all the millions of people they murdered, etc., do you think that is enough evidence to demonstrate how they have placed themselves equal to or above Jesus?

Thank you very much for your thoughts and if you do not mind, I will respond to your comments later on. Best wishes always.

I do understand and agree with you. But the RCC is guilty of disobeying the first three commandments (and also changing the 4th). Meaning, they claim divinity- breaking the first, they worship idols- breaking the 2nd commandment, they take God name in vain, meaning they profess Jesus in name ONLY. They do not obey the teachings of Jesus. There are many other religious organizations that claim the name of Jesus…. But how many of them have done so AND corrupted the Gospel of Jesus? ABSOLUTELY NO other church has made the claim that their leader is divine and equal to God. I am not too familiar with the Mormons or the Jehovah Witnesses but I do believe these and many others have no problem claiming they are followers of Christ … Look at what they do and profess and teach … everything they do is contrary to what Jesus tells us to do.

Thanks for your response! It is very difficult to try and present a full / complete picture of these interpretations. Yes, they all must speak the same story and cannot conflict with the verses adjacent to them OR any other verse within the 12 chapters. So when we discuss only one or two at a time, it is impossible for you or others reading these new interpretations to see them. Within these Messianic prophecies (9:24 - 27), God is giving us two very different sets of verses. Verses 9:24 and 25, are ONLY the two “restorative” verses of the four. They confirm and reveal exactly what will be restored after the Babylonian exile, who is being given the responsibility to restore each element, and the specific timing each element will be restored. That is the purpose of the 70 weeks of years prophecy - it is God revealing His plan to restore His people and His city back the way it was before the Babylonians destroyed everything (but of course there would be much more within His prophecy). So, 24 and 25 tells us all of this … everything has been fully restored by the end of 9:25. Unfortunately, His people would reject Him and this will cause the need to reveal the prophecies found in 9:26-27. These are identified as the two “destructive” verses within these 4. These reveal the “results or consequences” of their rejecting their Messiah. The exact elements that were restored (24-25), would now be shown to be destroyed. And once again, God reveals what will be destroyed, who will destroy them and the timing of their destruction. You mentioned the destruction of the city / Temple, etc., above. Well, this certainly took place in 70 AD when Titus and his army destroyed EVERYTHING. But please notice that it was the PEOPLE of the prince who is to come that will destroy the city and everything. The “people” are indeed those within pagan Rome. But these same people will become subordinate and peoples of the coming prince - the little horn who will rule over the 4th kingdom beast after pagan Rome is slain (7:11). It is Jesus who established the New Covenant DURING (NOT FOR- incorrect translation), the last week of the prophecy. This was His mission! Within these two different set of verses we have the physical elements that will be restored and we have the physical elements that will be destroyed. We also have the “spiritual” elements that must be restored and the “spiritual” elements that will be destroyed. I am sorry to disagree! He is indeed the little horn. He is not some mythical “anti-Christ” figure that comes at the end times to enter into some 7 year covenant with Israel! Absolutely NO ONE WOULD EVER EXPECT ISRAEL TO RETURN AND BECOME A NATION AGAIN. Prior to the Reformation, the consensus WAS the papacy was the little horn of Daniel. And this is exactly why and when the 7 year tribulation theory was created! The papacy needed to refute they were the little horn of Daniel. Consequently, it was they (Father Ribera of the Jesuits) that was given the assignment to construct a new interpretation that ensured they could not be labeled as the little horn. They specifically targeted these verse in Chapter 9 and claimed the (he) in 27 was not the Messiah but some evil anti/Christ figure that will come at the end time and enter into a 7 year covenant but in the “midst of the 7 years” he would renege on it. They attributed these Messianic prophecies away from the Messiah. All one has to to is to EASILY match the events in these verses to the Messiah that literally took place to see that they speak of Him. I agree. That is meant to reveal how his people and his city will be restored over / during the 70 weeks of years or 490 literal years. But as I mentioned earlier, this is a complete restoration! EVERYTHING had to be completed just as it was prior to the Babylonian invasion. What was the very first piece of furniture taken away? It was the Ark of the Covenant by Jeremiah so it would not be taken to Babylon. After that, the Babylonians would come and destroy / take everything. So, within God’s plan of restoration (Chapter 9 prophecy), He would have each item / element restored in the exact reverse order they were taken or destroyed. Meaning, the Jews would be responsible for rebuilding the city and the Temple, restoring the sacred vessels, the Levitical ceremonies and the 7 feast days, the Sabbath keeping’s. ALL of these things were / must be fully by the end of the 69th week - and they were! The only item they were incapable of restoring was the “Presence of God” (Ark of the Covenant) within the Sanctuary. Only God could provide this! This is why He “set aside” the last week of the prophecy. Jesus would come on the very first day of the 70th week to begin His ministry. He would be baptized in the Jordan and Anointed by His Father. Once again, this is all about Him not some mythical evil being created by the little boy. So, Jesus would represent final piece of furniture to be restored in the Sanctuary. Verses 9:24 - 27 are ALL about the restoration of his city and his sanctuary, and unfortunately, their destruction. In this verse in Luke, Jesus is predicting the complete destruction that will take place in 70 AD. No, this does indeed mean the destruction in 70 AD. If you don’t find the Temple / Sancyto have been completely destroyed…. Of course Jesus did not destroy Jerusalem. But it was the reboot His people that would be the consequences of its destruction. No, the PEOPLE of the prince who is to come shall destroy them. Can not speak to this. I can speak to Daniel. Look forward to your thoughts.

I agree with you on so many of your comments!!! But I would ask you to consider the following: 1) there is absolutely NO person as the “anti-Christ.” There is definitely the “spirit” of anti-Christ, but that term speaks to anyone preaching a different Gospel. However, Daniel is mostly speaking of the period up to the cross when He will be rejected by His people. He will establish His church after the cross. It will grow exponentially despite all the many groups / peoples trying to kill His followers. His church will become dominated by Gentiles and around the 4th to 5th century AD, it will become the official religion of the 4th kingdom beast (pagan Rome). Then, we see the decline of pagan Rome and the rise and succession of papal Rome. The Christian church, headed by the papacy (little horn) will come to power and continue as the 4th beast kingdom (the “divided” kingdom), until His return. It is this “little horn” who will appropriate His church and be guilty of all the things you have mentioned. He is the one in Daniel 7 and 8 who will speak pompous things against God, go against His people and His saints, change times and laws, claim to be God on earth, declare salvation comes only through the church (RCC)… on and on! God specifically identified this “evil” one in these chapters. He also identified his coming and succession after the 4th beast kingdom (pagan Rome) was slain (7:11). There were only 4 kingdoms that were brought out of the sea in God’s metal man image, and papal Rome was not one of them. Papal Rome came out of pagan Rome - they were not of the 4, nor was the papacy given to come out of the 4. But God certainly knew what would happen within His church, and purposely had given us everything we needed to recognize the identity of this little horn. Could there possibly be ANYONE that comes upon the earth that has done more than this little horn AGAINST the kingdom of God? Satan had nothing on them! Over the past 1500 years, they have murdered and tortured over 50 MILLION people (pagans and Christians) that did not follow and worship under the RCC teachings. They claim to represent God on earth, that the pope is equal to God, they can forgive sin, change His commands and worship idols. Declare salvation is only through keeping their sacraments, and salvation only through the RCC. Can ANYINE possibly come up with a person / group that is more “anti-Christ” than this church? What more do they have to do to meet the definition of an “anti-Christ” spirit? The little horn of Daniel 7 and 8 has been preaching a very different and murderous gospel- one that places them above God Himself. This is not a Catholic beating set of comments. These are simply mentioning what they have been practicing for over 1500 years. How many billions of people have followed their teachings that will not see the kingdom of God? They have followed a false god!

Thanks for your thoughts! Yes, Israel was and will always be “His chosen people.” Because of their rejection of Him, He has “made them desolate” to Him. This will continue until He decides the “time of the Gentiles” is over. At that time (soon in my opinion), He will remove the blindness from their eyes and restore His relationship with them once again. They still have one important mission to complete for Him. Agree. Not sure I understand this point. It was Jesus who fulfilled His God given mission from His Father during His 3.5 year ministry. He fulfilled all of 9:24. Agree. I don’t know if I would put it that way. After the cross, it would be His apostles and other Jews who were chosen by God (pottery clay) to go out and preach the Good News. They went to the Jews and to the Gentiles. Prior to the cross? Israel did not go and preach the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to the Gentiles, but kept Him to themselves. It would still be through “the Jews” the Gentiles would be saved - through their command by Jesus to go out into the world preaching the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus. I think we might be saying or thinking along the same lines— not sure because I would need a little more from you on this comment. Daniel is dealing with the Kingdom of God. He is revealing His plan of salvation for mankind through this storyline within Daniel. God had given Israel the mission to teach / reveal the One true God to the world. They were to learn and obey His commands and worship Him only. Not only did they disobey Him and turn to idolatry, but they failed in their priestly mission to evangelize the Gentiles. They were punished, and because they refused to repent, God brought the Babylonians to completely destroy everything and murder many. They took many captive for a 70 year punishment. But God would use this for good and design a plan to completely restore His people and His city as it was before the destruction. Everything was restored as He decreed in the 70 weeks of years prophecy. But, in the last week of the prophecy, His people would reject Him. But within His plan of restoration, He would ensure and choose those Jews would accept Him as their Messiah (pottery clay) from those that would reject Him (ceramic clay), so they would preach the Gospel to both the Jews and the Gentiles. The Gospel is bringing His Kingdom to the world - the only way to salvation. I understand what you are saying, but I believe it might be better to say the Gentile kingdom, at that time it was the most powerful kingdom to come upon the earth, was no match for God. Despite the small number of Jews that were sent out into a world dominated by paganism, Roman secularism, and the Jewish leadership desperately trying to kill them for preaching Jesus the Messiah, His church would succeed. Everyone was against them for the first 300 years after the Cross, and this was a very violent type of aggression against them. I have to strongly disagree here. His church has been “set up” at the cross. His apostles were not commanded to go out and build a bunch of new buildings, establish a formal church hierarchy, etc., and develop what we commonly refer to today as the “church.” His “church” is every individual who accepts He our Lord and Savior. They went out into the world to preach “the Gospel.” His church will be found within the heart of each individual as we are responsible for our own salvation. In 2:44, God tells us “no longer will the “kingdom” be left to another people. Meaning, the Jews were given the mission to preach salvation through the One true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. They refused to go out into the Gentiles but kept Him for themselves. Now, God would establish a better covenant- one that would see His Holy Spirit willing and able to preach His Word to every individual should they choose to. Now, unlike the RCC who declares their own way to salvation, every person has the opportunity to be saved. He would no longer allow any people, group or “church organization” to have the ability to decide if they will be saved or not. No more of man’s “fences” or requirements they developed to determine who will be saved and / or how or if they will be saved. True, only God could restore a nation after 2000 years. And, of course, He has a very special purpose for His people to complete before His return. First the physical, then the spiritual! Yes. EVERYONE has declared that both 2:34 and 2:35 take place at the same time- both are end time events. However, during my study of Daniel it was impossible to interpret the most important verses in the Hebrew chapters under this interpretation. The Stone represents the Messiah at His first coming, not at the end of time. He came to fulfill 9:24 and “set up” His kingdom. The Jews failed to preach the One true God to the world, consequently, God would design a plan to offer salvation to ALL peoples. Now, anyone who accepts Jesus and the cross would be saved. The Jews would no longer be the “gatekeepers.” For this to happen, He would symbolically break apart the clay (His people) from the iron (pagan Rome). God would then determine and select those pieces of clay He would use that would preach His Word and the Testimony of Jesus to the world (Jeremiah 18:1-6). The Jews expected the Messiah would come around the time He did, but they were expecting Him to destroy the Romans and set up His Kingdom on the earth. Instead, God would symbolically break into pieces the clay from the iron and then choose those of His people He would mold. This was His plan to save ANY of His creation that would accept Jesus as their Messiah. Now, salvation is available for ALL and He did not have to fire a shot! He did not come to destroy but to divide! Now, the “time of the Gentiles” would begin and as punishment for rejecting their Messiah, God would make Himself “desolate” to His people. Verse 2:35 is truly an end time event. And it is why within 2:35 we see the parable of the harvest and the threshing floor. There is 2000 years between 2:34 and 2:35. The Gospel will be preached for 2000 years, then, the end. The verses in 2:41-44 describe what will take place AFTER the cross (after 2:34). His chosen people (pottery clay) will start His church. It will mix with the iron (pagan Rome). But you will notice the 4th beast kingdom will be identified as being “partly clay and partly iron,” IN THAT ORDER. Before the cross (2:34) the 4th kingdom was identified as “partly iron and partly clay,” IN THAT ORDER. Meaning, His church would eventually have more “clay than iron.” The church would have taken superiority over pagan Rome. And that is exactly what happened at the time of Constantine. However, within these same verses, we find the Jews who accepted Jesus (seed of men) would “mingle” with this new church but would not “adhere” to it. This also occurred when the “Christian church” would be successful in removing any sign of its Jewish roots, and remove all Jews from the church. Also, those Jews would not adhere to the church because the church would bring in many pagan practices that corrupted His teachings. I don’t believe this at all. Different interpretations does not constitute “negative.” I can understand how different these (and so many more than build off of them in the latter Hebrew chapters) are or will be received. They depart from “today’s accepted interpretations,” whether the “accepted interpretations” are of a “preterist or futurist” view. And this is exact why I began my study on Daniel- the scholars, academics, theologians who have given us “today’s accepted interpretations,” are quite far apart in their interpretations. Absolutely no consensus among them. And after years of study, it was found their “approach” was terribly wrong. Daniel is not a history book where we attempt to match the actors and events within OUR HISTORY BOOKS to those we believe are in the verses of Daniel. If we look for how these verses speak to the coming Messiah and His plan of restoration and salvation THROUGH these 4 kingdoms, we will find a very different set of interpretations. Daniel is about our coming Messiah in the last week of the Chapter 9 prophecy and His plan of salvation for all of mankind. I am sure you are well aware just how much God uses symbolism and metaphors, parables, etc., to convey His message. I have indeed provided the source of these interpretations. Verses 2:33 to 2:45 are given. These are used to unpack their meaning. And, they are indeed supported by what literally took place within the 4th kingdom period when the Messiah arrived, AND after the cross when He”set up” His church. In the other hand, you have idenythe “clay” as being “democracy.” Further, if I read it correctly, you too have placed these interpretations in the end times as opposed to the time of the Messiah. So, I believe we are both using the same verses in Chapter 2 but interpreting them quite differently. I really don’t think God is writing about what form of government that man will design at the end times. Remember, He purposely has given us the “structure” of the 4 kingdoms where He will present His plan of salvation in. He has selected these 4 and only 4 kingdoms that will come out of the sea for a reason. He wants us to concentrate and focus our efforts on interpreting His prophetic verses WITHIN these 4 kingdoms- these are His guidelines and restrictions to keep our interpreting them. Almost all of Daniel covers from 606 BC (time of exile) to the cross (3.5 years before the end of the prophecy) and then He gives us the consequences of the cross - the establishment of His church through the preaching of the Good News (by the potter clay) to the appropriation of His church by the little horn (papacy). I agree with your comment on consistency. But once again, the focus should not be on the 4 kingdoms. The 4 kingdoms are WHERE AND WHEN His prophecies will take place. He establishes the type of metals and body parts of a man to ensure we recognize that each kings is separate and unique. The actors and events within each kingdom stay within that particular kingdom. There is no “bleeding” between the kingdoms. Each kingdom will be given a specific mission to fulfill as they relate to His people. The metals do provide us with the identification of each kingdom. The specific body parts provide us with an understanding of their God given mission. But they are not the story! These verses are not about end times or man’s choices of secular governments. It is all about the coming of the Messiah (first coming) and His plan of salvation for mankind. You do not have to accept my interpretations! But I would ask that you consist God is giving us His prophetic verses for His first coming and what He was given to fulfill by His Father at His first coming. Nothing is more important than the cross. Look forward to your tho! Best wishes.

Thanks for your response. The "covenant" is the "New Covenant"identified in Jeremiah 31:31-34. This New Covenant was indeed fulfilled when, after the cross, God would send His Holy Spirit on Pentecost. That certainly happened and it is available to anyone, Jew or Greek who places their faith in the Messiah. This is the same covenant that was given to Mo. He has ses on Mt. Sinai, but better! Now, His covenant is not written on the scrolls, they are no longer within the Levitical ceremonial system. Now, God will and has put HIs Word / His commandments / His Testimony WITHIN the hearts of anyone accepting Him as their Lord and Savior. So, you can see just how complete / important / necessary His New Covenant means for our salvation - it is now the ONLY way to salvation. He has moved His covenant from the external to the internal, from the corporate to the individual level. Now, no man is requried to look to any other group / man / church / organziation, etc., to be saved. No more external mediator. Now, we have a "one on one" with our God and Savior for each to succeed in getting to His kingdom. This is the only covenant one should be focusing on.... Secondly, I would ask you to consider how the verse in 9:27 has been "tapered with." If you take a step back and look at the 70 weeks of years prophecy, God provides all the elements, responsibilities, and timing when the many items of the "restoration" will occur. They are all layed out in these 70 weeks. Therefore, this "New covenant" made between Jesus and His people would be confirmed / fulfilled / completed WITHIN THE LAST 7 YEARS OF THE PROPHECY. It is not a covenant FOR 7 YEARS... God does not make such covenants with His people. Also, as mentioned above, this entire prophecy is about His plan of restoration and salvation for His people and His city AND ALL OF MANKIND. It was not until the late 16th century AD when the RCC, through their Jesuit brothers were tasked to develop of new interpretation where they (papacy) was not the little horn of Daniel 7 and 8. Consequently, they developed the 7 year tribulation theory which took these same verses in Chapter 9 and attributed many to a mythical "anti-Christ" figure who will come in the future and establish a 7 YEAR covenant with Israel.... this guaranteed that the pope / papacy could not be the little horn of Daniel. Now, no one would be discussing who this "little horn" was, and they would now look to the future awaiting this "mythical" anti-Christ figure - and they would attribute these important verses that only the Messiah could fulfill in Chapter 9 to this evil one yet to come. Chapter 9 is about the Messiah and His plan for our salvation. Nowhere is there a menti0n, implied, hinted at, expressed about some "anti-Christ" figure. These prophecies occurred in the last WEEK and the results of those that were completed / fulfilled WITHIN the last week would be with us until the end. Daniel is all about our salvation revealed through these 4 kingdoms and through the travels of His people all the way through the 70 weeks.