Buddy D. Mouse

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. Tools 1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. Tools 1Co 14:29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge. Tools 1Co 14:30 If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.

Unlearned or unbelievers will think those MAD who are all speaking in tongues... Hmmm... I wouldn't want to be either unlearned or unbeliever - and I wouldn't want to be out of order either - so it might be a slippery slope to be totally in order and by the book as far as speaking in tongues. Here I will digress to a period in my past when I attended a charismatic Episcopal church. I was usually in Methodist churches. I mean they went BY THE BOOK - no tongues without interpretation, ever. I usually sat up front at the right, one sunday we sat on the left, way in the back. Someone gave a message in tongues at the upper right of the sanctuary, in the area where I normally sat. And we waited for an interpretation. And we waited. And we waited. Then a CELL PHONE rang. Someone answered their cell phone, then quite close by FINALLY came the interpretation. It was just a coincidence, but I died laughing - it was as if the interpretation had come in by phone! OK - back to the New Testament.

1Co 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Well, those are the verses for THE FORBIDDEN SUBJECT to this thread - the CEASING of tongues, the failing of prophecies, the vanishing away of knowledge - might it be specifically WORD OF KNOWLEDGE? But as said, this thread will not get into cessationism vs continuationism. We will look at tongues as mentioned in the New Testament, without trying to define THAT WHICH IS PERFECT - TELEIOS - complete, mature... The ceasing, failing, vanishing away applies to three specific gifts.

1Co 13:8 ¶ Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. Tools 1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. Tools 1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

In 1 Corinthians 13 is our great AGAPE love chapter; the superiority of AGAPE to any of the gifts is the theme. "Although I speak with the tongues of men AND OF ANGELS" and here we go... Is Paul being hyperbolic here? Was Jesus being hyperbolic about casting mountains into the sea? Well, hyperbole is a figure of speech that the Bible uses. In any case, Paul writes that tongues of angels are a thing that could exist. Way back in the INITIAL OUTPOURING to the 120 believers, there was no cause to speak in human languages only among the local believers - 120 in upper room - though very quickly there WAS a need to communicate with Parthians, Cretans and whoever - in their actual human languages. We cannot dismiss out of hand that Paul might speak in the tongues of angels - he wouldn't know what he was saying, he contrasted praying in the spirit with "praying with understanding" - said he would do both... But a part of our ELEPHANT is the man that speaketh in the spirit to God - that this is something different than a message to the church that needs to be interpreted is significant.

There are many references to tongues in Paul's letters. It will be slower-go to get to all of them, whether tongues are a sign to unbelievers/believers, what was the "abuse" of tongues in Corinth, etc. Rules for giving interpretations - how many can speak - we can still look at much and not have the thread be about cessationism vs continuationism. I have pretty much covered tongues in Acts and can turn to Paul's letters.

In Acts 19, 12 men who "had not even heard that there be any Holy Ghost" have Paul lay hands on them and speak in tongues.

In Acts 9 we have Ananias laying hands on the temporarily-blinded Paul (Saul of Tarsus) so that he receives the Holy Ghost. IN Acts 10 we have Cornelius, a gentile centurion, and those with him have the Holy Ghost fall on them, without the laying on of hands. Water baptism follows, in the name of Jesus. We do not yet see a Trinitarian formula in water baptism. Cornelius' household gives us an inkling of two baptisms, in reverse order, Peter's bunch would not withhold water, seeing the Holy Ghost had fallen on them "like us in the beginning" The gospel has gone to the Gentiles. We have a baptism in which falls the Holy Ghost, we have water baptism also in the name of Jesus. We have people speaking in tongues whether they had hands laid on them or not.

In Acts 8 we have the first instance of laying on of hands to grant the Holy Spirit; but we also have Phillip baptizing the Ethiopian eunuch - water only, no mention of Holy Ghost falling. In Ephesians it is said there is "one baptism" - yet in Hebrews it speaks of a doctrine of baptisms - plural. We must look at everything - we must see the entire elephant.

Peter stood up with the ELEVEN to start his sermon after some had mocked that the disciples were full of new wine - did that mean Matthias had not been recognized formally as the TWELTH? I do not know. Or is it Peter AND the eleven? I do not want to disparage Matthias, he was obviously a great guy, though the circumstances of being selected one of two and then a LOT to decide seems strange to me. There are some who say Paul would later become a 12th disciple/apostle - but that is not germaine to this OP/thread. 3,000 were pricked to the heart by Peter's sermon and became believers. I do not think we will ever exhaust everything that happened on Day of Pentecost. I do not hide the fact that I am continuationist, I just beg that that is not the issue here. All I can do is ask that the whole cessationism vs continuationism issue be set aside as we look at tongues IN THE NEW TESTAMENT.

The ELEPHANT metaphor is used because many people speaking about tongues are like the story of "blind men describing the elephant". One touches its tail, says elephant is like a rope, one touches its side says elephant is like a wall, one grabs a leg and says elephant is like a tree... Even some charismatics, who have supposedly SEEN THE ELEPHANT, have misconceptions that one MUST speak in tongues to be saved, this is erroneous. Paul asks rhetorically "do all speak with tongues?" and answer assumed to be no - so even at the time when no one disputes tongues took place, not all used this gift. Again, I plead that this thread NOT be about cessionism vs continuationism. WE want to see how tongues are used IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. Interpretation of tongues, as a gift, hasn't even come into play yet - on Day of Pentecost that was more or less automatic.

I have tried to picture maybe Phillip speaking Cretan to some Cretans, Bartholomew speaking Parthian to some Parthians, etc., but as I say - it boggles my mind... There were a lot of people visiting Jerusalem. Let's say more than three thousand in this area, because 3,000 believe and join the church after Peter's sermon. There is much confusion and chaos - Peter starts his sermon by first trying to convince the crowd that the disciples are not DRUNK - but rather that a prophecy of Joel has come to pass. IMO, at this point, Peter speaks in his native Aramaic and the HEARING ONLY MIRACLE occurs. How much HEBREW was known by everybody escapes me, probably not enough that Peter preached in Hebrew and listeners/visitors knew enough Hebrew to follow along. Possible, but not likely, imo I reject that - and say we have a hearing only miracle of the crowd understanding Peter. We are just on the FIRST DAY. We have had a pre-Pentecost/breathing on weeks earlier - we have had an initial outpouring, disciples speaking in unknown tongues and visitors hearing in their own languages, and a big sermon by Peter after which the church goes from 120 to 3,000. Wow. When I was young, as a kid, I saw a presentation like a movie which fascinated me - fascinates me still. The scene was Solomon's Portico, and whether that is scriptural I don't know, it is held by many... Cloven tongues of fire settling on disciples' heads - sound of a mighty wind - this was SOMETHING!

There were about a hundred and twenty believers present - must have been quite a large UPPER ROOM - and we come to what I call the INITIAL OUTPOURING on these 120 believers - remember Mother Mary and other women are included - speaking in tongues along with the rest of 'em when The Holy Ghost comes. In Acts 2:4, the 120 get the Holy Ghost - and speak in other tongues. My mind boggles to picture all of this. Were they outside, in Solomon's Porch by now? They were in an upper room, Acts 2:5 passes quickly into the non-Aramaic-speaking visitors hearing in their own languages. Note that in Acts 2:4 the disciples SPOKE in other tongues; this is not yet a miracle of HEARING ONLY - that IMO comes later when Peter addresses the crowd alone - but for now we have disciples SPEAKING in tongues, as well as visitors HEARING in their own languages.

Eight days go by, then He appears again with Thomas present, Thomas is offered to put his hands in Christ's wounds - does not - but says "My Lord and my God". Disciples are told to wait in Jerusalem, told to not do anything til they are endowed with power, told not to leave Jerusalem. Did they obey? I'll leave it up to you - the election of Matthias to take the place of Judas Iscariot - the journey to Galilee because Peter wants to go back to work fishing - a full forty days go by (whether that INCLUDES the eight, I dunno) and now we are at Day of Pentecost.

This will be a thread to look at the DIVERSE KINDS OF TONGUES recorded in the New Testament, Please - please - please do not not let this thread be about Cessationism (Cessionism) vs Continuationism. That is not what this OP and thread is about. I realize that some people think diverse kinds of tongues means ONLY different human languages, well, we will look at tongues in the New Testament. So much emphasis is put on Day of Pentecost - Acts 2. I feel there is so much to look at on that day that its practically inexhaustible. First there is a pre-Pentecost, or Proto-Pentecost passage, when Jesus BREATHED on the disciples and SAID "receive the Holy Spirit"; all but Thomas were present when He said "receive ye the Holy Ghost" The Bible does not say they DID receive Him then, it does not say they did NOT receive Holy Ghost then, does not say they spoke in tongues at that time, does not say they didn't. John 20:22 Now we are ready to look at Day of Pentecost.

Buddy had gone to Proxima Centauri system in an effort to stop corona at its source. He feared not making it back in time for election. He went into hyper-space in an effort to save time. He got stuck in hyper-space. Buddy is here in SPIRIT - but it will be eons until Buddy walks the earth again.

it all depends on how long it takes Buddy to get back from Proxima Centauri system

not yet, but its likely... Buddy, if not back in time for U S Election, might start a campaign to be Prime Minister of a UNITED KOREA

THAT WAS NOT BUDDY that was found. It can now be revealed that Buddy is off-world. On a planet near Proxima Centauri, Buddy has gone there to eradicate Corona virus at its source He may not be back in time for election at all

Wise men pictured at Manger is fingernails on the chalkboard to me. The Bible says there were 3 GIFTS, not number of Magi, but an Orthodox poster said from tradition there were 3, even had their names. What is a "condensed event"?

I am a wild olive branch a Gentile

That Pizza Delivery girl in the new Jake from State Farm ad is up for State Senator in Idaho

Jake from State Farm wants a cabinet position

I am just a Wild Olive branch