adamjedgar

I find it really interesting that conveniently, the new covenant conspirators never quote James, and quite often ignore Peters writings. The reason for this is because these two seem be opposed to the modern new covenant christian interpretation (which means the modern view is therefore obviously in error) 1Peter 1: 15But just as He who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do, 16for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy...17Since you call on a Father who judges each one’s work impartially, conduct yourselves in reverent fear during your stay as foreigners...22Since you have purified your souls by obedience to the truth so that you have a genuine love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from a pure heart. 1 Peter 2: "12Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us." Peter in vs 22 quotes Isaiah next... 21For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps: 22“He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in His mouth.”g 23When they heaped abuse on Him, He did not retaliate; when He suffered, He made no threats, but entrusted Himself to Him who judges justly. 24He Himself bore our sinsh in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. “By His stripes you are healed.” There is a danger when interpreting scripture, instead of letting scripture revealing itself via its many links within its pages, we attempt to interpret based on historical wives tails... 2 Peter 3 says: 15Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16He writes this way in all his letters,g speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort,h as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. So how does one reconcile the apparent opposing views between Paul and James+Peter? I think the key is found in Rev 14:12 where we find that those who are saved (the saints who go to heaven) do both, they believe and produce fruits according to the commandments of God 12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. The interesting thing is that keeping the commandments of God is written first by the apostle John!

I think if you read the text within its context, its very self explanatory. Jesus came and lived the life of a "teacher". If you were a teacher, what would be YOUR expectation of your students after they leave your care? Would you not expect them to uphold your teachings and your role modeling? So if i taught follow the commandments, if i taught love thy neighbour, wouldnt it be pretty obvious what is mean by the phrase i came not to destroy the law but to fulfill it? It means you are to follow your teachers lifestyle and role modelling. Jesus kept the law perfectly, you should aim to do the same not because it will save you, but because that is the fruit of your faith in Him! (consider the pericope adulterae..."go and sin no more")

dont you remember this post above that you just made? so here is your dilemma, either the prince of Tyre (Lucifer as the covering cherub) was not in the Garden of Eden on earth, or the creation event was complete before Lucifer fell from heaven with his angels! So which is it going to be?

I dont follow what your interpretation is of that statement? Are you claiming that Jesus, in being the only human every able to fully keep the law perfectly is a heretic? because in claiming the law is a curse a person would also be claiming Jesus, because he kept the law perfectly, is a curse. If we are living under the new covenant, and the disciples and apostles apparently endorced this false doctrine, how then is it that James states "break one commandment and you break them all"? James 2 "8If you really fulfill the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,”c you are doing well. 9But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10Whoever keeps the whole law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 11For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,”d also said, “Do not murder.”e If you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. 12Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom. " the reality is, we are not saved by keeping the law...it is too late for that. New covenant conspiracy theorists continue to make absurd claims about this (ie the old covenant condemned us but the new one does not). The point is, we are condemned because one man sinned (Adam). We are saved because one man (Jesus) died for all sin. Paul says, even Abraham was saved through faith in Jesus We are saved by Gods Grace through faith in the righteousness of Jesus. That is the entire point...its not about whether or not the law applies. I have said this before, if we are not under the law, then what do we need saving from exactly? The minute there is no law, I have done nothing wrong and I cant be condemned for it because there is now no threshold in which to judge me...I am therefore free to go and do whatever i like knowing that I cannot be condemned...you know the good old fundamentalist baptist view, "once saved always saved"! The equation as far as i see it, we obtain grace by faith righteousness by faith salvation by faith sanctification by faith and yet i still believe i must keep the law...because, even though im not saved by it, by that standard i will be judged! Our deeds are the fruit of our faith...we want to keep Gods commands because of our faith! James 2 14What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you tells him, “Go in peace; stay warm and well fed,” but does not provide for his physical needs, what good is that? 17So too, faith by itself, if it does not result in action,f is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one.g Good for you! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.

I don't think that is correct. Paul in Romans 7 says differently... 12So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous, and good.

Have you ever read Ezekiel 28? I think you should.

i dissagree that Gods law is not going to be in effect forever..that is a false assumption that is easily proven 100% wrong. Genesis 2 16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.” So i have to ask, if the plan of salvation is to redeem us to the creator and the perfection before the fall of man, how is it that God commanded Adam in Genesis Chapter 2? (Adam and Eve sinned in chapter 3) Lets now go to the very last book of the bible cannon... Rev 14:12 12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. Now to top it off, remember what Jesus said to the women taken in adultery... John 8:11 “Then neither do I condemn you,"Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” Now i ask those who are willing to ignore doctrine for a minute and simply reply directly to the texts quoted above...what does it mean to "leave ones life of sin"? Is that not a two part requirement...choosing to believe in the testimony of Jesus (faith) and to make a choice not to engage in sinful activities by not committing adultery, not coveting, not bearing false witness, not killing etc (thus we are being asked to also "try" to keep the commandments of God). There should not be any Sabbath keeping christian being blamed as a works based salvation advocate because they keep the commandments of God. Works based salvation is not even possible...we are cannot save ourselves...we have never been able to save ourselves, we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and his dying on the cross for us. It is through faith in that event that we believe and are saved. Even Abraham (OT) was saved by faith...The apostle Paul dedicates and entire chapter to Abrahams faith and salvation...see Romans Chapter 4!

Sorry this is so late...but I've just found it... Joel 1:6-10 "6For a nation has come up against my land, powerful and beyond number; its teeth are lions’ teeth, and it has the fangs of a lioness. 7It has laid waste my vine and splintered my fig tree; it has stripped off their bark and thrown it down; their branches are made white. 8Lament like a virgina wearing sackcloth for the bridegroom of her youth. 9The grain offering and the drink offering are cut off from the house of the LORD. The priests mourn, the ministers of the LORD." It seems that Joel is linked to the period around 500b.c or earlier. I am considering that perhaps Joel is referring to the captivity commencing in Babylon. Vs 9 also clearly speaks of the stopping of the sacrificial system during that captivity. Then I have also noticed...Daniel chapters 7 and 8 are out of sync with chapter 6 and 9. They are still in baylonian rulership even though the medes overthrew Babylon in ch 5! Something unusual going on there.

the bite me was not meant in gest...it was meant to convey i cant help that im a wood technology and metal technology major in teaching at university...so the concept of times/seasons being years is consistent with tree growth, i think that is also why this particular illustration is used.) anyway, now to speak to the word "like" if i said to you, my horse has a tail that looks "like" a bald mans head, what imagery would be in your head...taht the horse had no tail or that it was hairless? If i were to say to you, after polishing my car, it looked like it had a brand new paint job, would you say the car had not paint or just that the paintwork was in pristine condition after polishing? The point is, if a writer says to you, I am describing a physical attribute after a person has been homeless for a long period of time, how might that writer describe some of those attributes?( nails that look like claws of a bird...clearly means they had grown very long and curled...hair that grew long is the same application). you are trying to change the meanings of very self evident concepts in order to support a theory that the day year principle for this is wrong. Im sorry Charlie...you are not correct here. you have to let this go. Also, as i said previously, after reading Zehariah chapters 1 and 6 and commentary on what the four winds of heaven represents, as well as numerous biblical passages about the four horns, the four horses, the four craftsman...even my own theory about the Seleucid empire is now in tatters and i have to rethink it! It is now absolutely clear to me that we have to move to Daniel chapter 8 vs 8&9. Remove all sentence structure from these words bar the spaces and recompile them. If you do that with the enlightening information of Zechariah ch 1 and ch 6, suddenly you realise that the horn that comes our of the 4 winds of heaven in Daniel 8:9 is not one of the 4 generals of Alexandar the Great. This horn comes out of the same four winds that stirred up the sea in Daniel 7:1-3. One could actually argue that the horn here is on one of those first four beasts...remember the last beast that comes out of the sea is the "terrible one that is different from all of the others". How is this last beast different i ask myself? 1. its clearly a frightening beast of awesome visual characteristics...clearly much more imposing than a bear 2. this beast is described as being exceedingly strong Now here is the really interesting thing about how the fourth beast is describe...notice verse 7 "it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet." so what was left that this beast was devouring and breaking in pieces? Are we talking about the left over ruins of previous kingdoms or, are we talking about the what is left of Gods people and their theology? Could it be that this beast is going to break into pieces the final unblemished world view of the church? This is now where we are simply forced to look at the historical record...we have irrefutable evidence/proof of this. If we look to the rise of the power of the church in the Roman empire, and the subsequent dark ages, clearly that is what happened....the foundation of the original christian church was corrupted so badly, so oppressed, so broken...it was scattered. 3. Now here is where another problem immediately comes into this theology. As soon as we realise that the four beast coming up out of sea (the sea stirred up by the four winds of heaven) we now have to recognise that this vision extends right down to the end of time...Daniel 7: 21As I looked, this horn made war with the saints and prevailed over them, 22until the Ancient of Days came, and judgment was given for the saints of the Most High, Now here is the thing that at some point soon we need to resolve...what is the meaning of Daniel 8 English Standard Version And at the latter end of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their limit, a king of bold face, one who understands riddles, shall arise. Does this refer to the latter part of the Greek empire, OR, is it in fact talking about the end of the kingdoms of the four beasts that come up out of the sea that was stirred up by the four winds of heaven? See there is no mention of the little horn here at all...which i think in fact supports the view that this is actually talking about the four beasts BEFORE the little horn rises up out of them! (ie babylon, medo-persia, greece, rome) BTW...just to dispel and thoughts to the contrary...i am not sitting with an SDA bible commentary by my side...this is all just personal deduction from what i am reading.

I was more interested right now in the problem with the 7 days......his hair grew long and fingernails as well. That does not happen in 7 days. I think the only way to ignore the importance of those two features is to twist the text. Sorry, but it's absolutely not 7 days. (The the word "until" is important) Daniel chapter 4 His body was drenched with the dew of heaven until his hair grew like the feathers of an eagle and his nails like the claws of a bird. what I see is that one has to ignore that word "until" to support the idea it must be days. That is ignoring this specific passage in its own context. It's a tree...that references seasons...seasons is not linked to 7 days. So it's weeks, months or years. Of the types that will...most tree stumps also don't regrow to full maturity again in 7 days...I would argue 7 weeks or even 7 months isn't long enough. Hence why I stick with years. (Bite me. My formal training was an industrial arts high school teacher... woodwork is one of my major areas of study)

Charlie...you have gone off base with the Nebuchadnezzar punishment of 7 days...that is bogus I'm afraid. It also means some of your other timescales are wrong as well. The keys to the day/year prophecies are far more in depth than what you are interpreting and for good reason. You cannot continue to isolate biblical passages like this...I fear it will end up in a mass of convoluted and conflicting theories. Jesus did not come to setup an earthly sanctuary...that is an incorrect view. His mission was to make atonement for sin...that may be manifested on earth but it was heavenly in its intention...the forgiveness of sin doesn't come from earth. The reason he said to Mary on the sunday morning, do not touch me for I have not yet ascended to my father...it's significant...look at the sanctuary festivals...what come next after his crucifixion?

I would be very careful where one goes in interpreting 9:27. We must neve forget the scene is set in 9:24...it must stay true to the earlier verse. 24“Seventy ‘sevens’ c are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish d transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Most Holt Place. e (NIV) Only the Messiah can make atonement for sins and annoint the MHP...The Ark of the covenant has already been taken away from temple and hidden by the time of the Babylonian captivity (perhaps by prophet Jeremiah)...there is no mercy seat in the temple beyond this point...Gods presence is no longer there, nor will it return.

Woah that's jumping way ahead...I think your interpretation is quite good though. I am trying not to jump that far ahead...just staying close to Daniel 7. I make note of the fact his vision was in the night...not sure if we can draw anything from that?

No because they are in Daniel 7. We have to explain everything in chapter 7 first.

Charlie just said to not go beyond Daniel 7 to explain this...why are you now going straight to Revelation? In the Bible cannon, i believe it would be ok to use books shown near Daniel...so i instead assert that the prophet Zechariah has some input into this... Zechariah 6 1 Again I lifted my eyes and saw, and behold, four chariots came out from between two mountains. And the mountains were mountains of bronze. 2The first chariot had red horses, the second black horses, 3the third white horses, and the fourth chariot dappled horses—all of them strong.a 4Then I answered and said to the angel who talked with me, “What are these, my lord?” 5And the angel answered and said to me, “These are going out to the four winds of heaven, after presenting themselves before the Lord of all the earth. here is a comentary on the four winds that i found by googling the phrase...(havent a clue what demonination this url is or if it agrees with my own...just pasted first thing i found) The prophet describes four chariots that go "out to the four winds of heaven" (6:5). These "four winds of heaven" likely symbolize creation in its entirety (consider, for example, the "four corners of the globe"). Basically, the vision depicts our Creator's thorough knowledge of all that takes place on earth. He sends His angelic servants forth around the globe so that they can report on what is happening in every place. God is not ignorant of the true state of world affairs; He is sovereign over all. (https://www.ligonier.org/learn/devotionals/four-winds-heaven) EDIT... i found another commentary that believes this actually includes heaven (as opposed to the earth specifically) Charlie you see why this is going to cause a problem now dont you?

Only thing I wish to add Charlie (and this i feel is potentially going to destroy my own theology)... Note what is says in 8:2 "Daniel spoke, saying, “I saw in my vision by night, and behold, the four winds of heaven were stirring up the Great Sea. 3And four great beasts came up from the sea," 4 winds stirred up the sea... I think that is important to make note of (I'm sure you and I both know why and where that may lead us when we get to the next chapter. DOH!!!) Now i ask an important question...we need a explanation of what the 4 winds are that stir up the sea. What are they?

i must confess, i got the urge to get in early...i watched two of the die hard movies a week ago!

would you care to consider the following text then? Romans 4:16Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may rest on grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham’s offspring—not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all Then read Revelation 14:12 12Here is a call for the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. I see both faith and works all over these two passages of scripture (first one written by the apostle paul and the second one by the apostle John!) So, if both the above are self evident bible truths, how then do we explain them? Its pretty easy actually... 1. we are "saved" by faith 2. we are "judged" by the fruits of our faith...our works! the point of the fruits...Jesus said to the women in the pericope adulterae (found in the KJV), "neither do i condemn you GO AND SIN NO MORE"!

I am not following you? I have just explained the apostles theology...do you disagree with what the apostle Paul said about Abraham being saved by faith? ( It appears you don't agree with Paul)

It is an unfortunate error, but very common.

Oh dear...large amount of effort completely wasted because of a misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the text. In a nutshell ..do you understand the way in which the moral law given to the Israelites at Sinai is catalogued? You may be surprised to find the first four are Love for God, and the last six, are love for your neighbour. Don't believe me...write out the commandments and see for yourself! Next, the very first command given in the Bible is actually found before Adam and Eve sinned...Genesis chapter 2 (note verses 16&17 below) 15Then the LORD God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate and keep it. 16And the LORD God commanded him, “You may eat freely from every tree of the garden, 17but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil; for in the day that you eat of it, you will surely die.” Anyone who says the law exists only because of sin or some kind of Israelite only covenant is 100% wrong. Finally, anyone who says the old covenant is works based under the law and the new one by faith, has a massive problem...Paul tells us Abraham believed and was saved by faith too in Romans chapter 4... 13For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world was not given through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.

If Ezekiel was read as a dual prophecy, then both views are correct. It has application for the captive Israelites AND for Christians (spiritual Israel) at the end of time when the new earth is recreated.

I think its important that you understand...i do not ask necessarily ask questions because i dont know the answer to them...I am fare more intelligent than to blindly do this. Most of the time, when i ask questions, it is because i am wanting to gauge what others think, or to promote discussion about a topic where i already have a view that I intend to discuss with others who may share a view that is clearly in error (such as the very unusual doctrine you came up with about Nimrod). That is the point of my question...it is clear your idea about Nimrod is an extremely difficult position to put forth considering the general consensus about who gives life and to whom! The bible says that the devil gives authority (clearly NOT to Nimrod), but i do not read into that Satan is also giving life.

whilst i do not agree with the direction the article takes...some of it is convincing regarding Satans ability to raise the dead: "God being the ultimate source of the first beast’s return and of the two resurrected bodies in Revelation 19:20 refutes every criticism and concern that Hanegraaf and Brouwer raise regarding the return to life of the beast. Only God has the power to raise the dead, not Satan. The Antichrist does not raise himself; God raises him. Satan by no means possesses creative power; God alone does, although Satan will lie about this in the future, receiving worship that is not properly due him (Rev 13:4). So though it will appear to the unbelieving world not so much that God has no equals but rather that Satan has no equals, Scripture plainly indicates that is never so. Satan operates only when God allows and only to the degree God allows"

so Nimrod is going to be resurrected to become the antichrist? That is an unusual point of view....I am struggling to find evidence that supports this theory as the bible does not specifically name who the antichrist is. It would seem to be at odds with what Jesus himself said : Matthew 24 4Jesus answered, “See to it that no one deceives you. 5For many will come in My name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. The Messiah clearly states "many will come in my name claiming to be the Christ" I am not sure how Nimrod can fit into the category of "many", he was but one man. It does pose the question, can Satan give life? I found an interesting article on this that i am just starting to read, I havent finished it yet so I am not sure what its final conclusion is... https://tms.edu/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/tmsj18b.pdf