tatwo

Part 4 in an abbreviated writing about the "two witnesses" In regards to prophesying in sackcloth…the House of God, having been judged and authenticated, has a word (prophesying) for the Gentiles, for the unbelievers among them, that word is the strictest word of repentance related to the fact that you have run out of time. God is about to conclude the age, to summarize everything, and this is the last call to those who are occupying the place of the Gentiles, occupying the position associated with unbelief but in proximity to the people of God. So, this is a message of a last call. Now on to the two olive trees and the two lampstands… These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. Revelation 11:4 Before we go any further let’s consider the reference to the “two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth” in Zechariah 4, really the whole chapter but let’s look at 4:11-14. "Then I said to him, "What are these two olive trees on the right of the lampstand and on its left?" And I answered the second time and said to him, "What are the two olive branches which are beside the two golden pipes, which empty the golden oil from themselves?" So he answered me, saying, "Do you not know what these are?" And I said, "No, my lord." Then he said, "These are the two anointed ones who are standing by the Lord of the whole earth.” Zec. 4:11-14 NASB A clear connection here to Rev. 11:4…now you really need to do some of the leg work required here on your own to receive a deeper revelation. I say that because I am going to hit the high spots in this connection, only. The picture of the women Zechariah reveals in Ch. 5 is very interesting but beyond the scope of this discussion for now. Let's move to ch. 6 “The word of the LORD also came to me, saying, 10 "Take an offering from the exiles, from Heldai, Tobijah and Jedaiah; and you go the same day and enter the house of Josiah the son of Zephaniah, where they have arrived from Babylon. 11 "Take silver and gold, make an ornate crown and set it on the head of Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest.” Zec 6:9-11 NASB What is that? A royal priesthood. If you are sitting on a throne, you are a king; but if you are sitting on the throne as a priest, you are a royal priesthood. Well, that goes perfectly with making a crown of silver and gold and giving it to the priest whose name is Joshua, (Yahshua). If you made a crown of gold, you would give it to the king, and that would have been Zerubbabel. But the crown of silver and gold was given to the son of the high priest. “12 "Then say to him, 'Thus says the LORD of hosts, "Behold, a man whose name is Branch, for He will branch out from where He is; and He will build the temple of the LORD. 13 "Yes, it is He who will build the temple of the LORD, and He who will bear the honor and sit and rule on His throne. Thus, He will be a priest on His throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two offices.” Zec 6:12-13 NASB This is clearly a picture of the Lord Yahshua (Branch) building the temple of God "His Body" then “sitting and ruling” on His throne as “King, and Priest” a royal priesthood. If you are following what I am putting up here, you can see that I am attempting to show that it is the “Fullness of Christ, Head & Body” that constitutes the temple of God as measured by John. And the two witnesses are “characteristics” of Christ’s throne in the temple…a “kingly priesthood” A Royal Priesthood of the order of Melchizedek. So the testimony of the two...the two olive trees and the two lampstands...is about the light and about the anointing. They are about those who carry the Spirit of God and whose words come forth by the Spirit of God and bring light. Tatwo…:)

truth7t7, this is not the first time you have taken me out of context, let me explain. I am curious, did you actually read the three parts I posted in their entirety? My sense is...that if you had...you would have never made the statement/question to me that you did...unless of course you are unable to understand the principal I am putting forth, if the latter were the case, then a question would be appropriate. This forum is called "Who are the two witnesses in the book of Revelation?" I am attempting a multiple part look at the first few passages of Revelation 11, so far I am only through vs. 3, not sure how far I will go. In any case I have not yet dealt with vs. 7 that you feel the need to comment on? Even a cursory look at the 3 parts I posted so far, openly reveal that the witnesses are literally alive in a literal world at that time...nothing in my posts even suggests the contrary. With references to the "temple of God," "the body of Christ" and the "kingdom of God on earth" apparently not speaking to you in any way as relating to literal bodies, in a literal world at that time...Sir, we do not disagree as you appear to sense...no...we are completely disconnected. Discussion on what I posted is expected, that's the hope in posting it. Discussing that which has not been posted or in view, seems distracting at best. Persisting in that behavior gives insight into the character of your soul to the spiritually discerning. I understand Sir, I understand. Given what I just posted here to you truth7t7, and what I have encountered in a number of your other posts (personal and others)...it has come into view, that it would be difficult to inspire the life of Christ as a result of sustained interactions with you moving forward? Tatwo...:)

The scripture also teaches that Christ had a literal body that died...and has a literal body known as the "Temple of God" on a literal earth, today. No problem... Tatwo...:)

Part 3 in an abbreviated writing about the "two witnesses" Last time we left off it looked like John was setting up the prophetic battle between the “kingdom of God and…the gentiles.” Now let’s move on to Rev. 11:3 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." Rev 11:3 NASB If it is not some kind of battle, or war like event…why does the angel tell John “I will grant authority to My two witnesses,”...for the same time period...42 months, 1260 days? Likely, just as in the days of the flesh of Yahshua when the “religious outer court dwellers” persecuted and haggard…Him finally killing Him….the same thing that appears to be occurring here? Notably the time frame 3.5 yrs. of the “two witnesses” is the same time frame Christ worked in His time on earth. Is this reference to “two witnesses” as two individuals? Not likely…it is the indisputable temple of God, Christ, Head and Body that emerged from Johns measuring or authentication and was then empowered with Christ’s authority. What, no cannot be? You may then say…then to what do we ascribe the terms “two witnesses?” Try this; the “two witnesses” are character attributes of the temple of God, Christ, Head & Body? We will get to that when we deal with the “olive trees and lampstands” in a bit…I am just introducing this to you in case you had never seen this before. Now let’s look at the statement “and they will prophesy.” To “prophesy” means they will legitimately represent a testimony and display of Christ’s authority and power…fully clothed in the glory of God…exactly as Christ Yahshua Himself did in the face of religious persecution in His day. This is all taking place on earth in the same fashion as Yahshua Himself did. Can you see the continual typology to Christ in all of this, only now as His Body? The two witnesses by the way will prophesy and witness in sackcloth. That tells us something of the substance of their prophesying or witnessing. When did the prophets of old prophesy in sackcloth...usually, it said sackcloth and ashes? Typically it is when the picture was one of how dire and extreme the departure from God had become among the people. It is the last-ditch effort to appeal to the people to come out of their deviant ways. That is when sackcloth is the appropriate attire. Concerning the “outer court” it is a visual picture of a beggarly people whose house is on fire, and things are dire and desperate. This measured and judged people of God will exhibit two characteristics for the same period that the false church, the unbelievers on the temple grounds, the unbelievers in proximity to the real House of God, in that time there will be this conflict. Tatwo…:)

Part 2 in an abbreviated writing about the "two witnesses" Now that we see that John was measuring, judging or authenticating the temple, which is Christ…Head & Body…notice what is said about the “outer court dwellers,” in the next verse. “But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months.” Rev 11:2 NKJV Do not measure the court which is “outside the temple”…this is major in that this outer court group “is not in, with or a part” of Christ, Head and Body, (temple of God) they are separate from Christ. This is typified in that while Yahshua lived on the earth and represented the Father in the epitome of the Spirit of God, the word of the Father, and the acts of the Father…the unbelievers…although they were Jews, they were unbelievers. This is a reference to how they made the temple into a den of thieves and were no better than gentiles. Even though the temple had been given to them, they were no better than the Gentiles, which are, in this connotation and in this context, heathen or unbelieving. So it looks like the Gentiles in the outer court “outside the temple” will be rampaging at the same time, for the same amount of time…that is significant, we will look at it later. They will trample and tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. This looks like the setup of a major battle between… 1. The measured and certified Temple of God, Kingdom of God which is “unified in the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.” 2. And the gentiles, the heathen, the unbelievers that are “seemingly” in the vicinity of Christ as noted by the term “outer court.” We will look at this in Rev.11:3 Tatwo…:)

I would change two words in your second sentence..."The two witnesses will *be* the measure *of* the spiritual temple of God, the altar and those who worship in it." Tatwo...:)

Part 1 in an abbreviated writing about the "two witnesses" “Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.” Rev 11:1 NASB Measuring rod like a staff – This refers to Christ as the standard of measurement, if it measures up to the standard of Christ...it is Christ, nothing else. All are measured against Him, those who measure up to the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ, are growing up in all aspects into Him who is the head. Those who don’t…well…you know... What is John measuring? ·“The temple of God” – This refers to those in whom the Holy Spirit dwells ·“The Alter” – the alter represents sacrifice, the sacrificial lives of those being measured ·“Those who worship in it” – This is reference to “Christ the body” It’s the Kingdom of God in heaven and on earth. Those that are dead in Christ are with Him, the rest are alive on the earth.

Truth7t7, Any reason you did not just deal with my statements about the measuring rod, temple of God, the alter of God, those who worship there? Did you for some reason think that I was not aware of those passages you cited? I was only working with Rev. 11:1...nothing else at this point, as I said one step at a time. I was simply asking "whoever" to consider my thoughts. Tatwo...:)

How about we look at something that appears obvious and yet hidden regarding these two witnesses. Going one step at a time? “Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.” Rev 11:1 NASB First, ask yourself this…what could this “measuring rod like a staff” be? I mean it is used to measure the “temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.” It is not uncommon for the scripture to reference Christ as a “rod” and “staff.” I mean what else can be used to measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it…but Christ Himself? As the “head” He is the “standard” by which the body is measured. And if that were true…we should notice that the “witnesses” emerge out of the “measuring” of the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it.... What constitutes the temple of God? If the Spirit of God dwells in you…then “you/we/Christ the body” is the temple of God. I understand that the idea of the “church” being raptured prior to this time is a popular thought around here…however John is told get up and “measure the temple of God.” Thoughts? Tatwo…:)

I have some light here maybe…humor me would you? This subject touches on what is happening on earth at or near the end of the age. This means that we are looking at the completion of God’s original intent for all of creation. What is that original intent but that God said “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.” They were to be fruitful and multiply and subdue and rule every living thing on the earth. This is His stated desire…He is doing it to be sure, Christ is the first born of “many” Sons, or the “pattern” Son…the “standard” and the “staff like measuring rod.” The idea that the bible doesn’t tell us who the two witnesses are, doesn’t seem consistent with the Lord’s character…we need revelation…meaning we need to be told, shown…in our spirits by Him. Is He not able to tell us? Indeed He is quite capable of telling us and perhaps He has…Maybe it’s in how we approach the subject that is in need of adjustment? Let’s take another look. “Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the temple of God and the altar, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months. 3 "And I will grant authority to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for twelve hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.” Rev 11:1-4 NASB Of all the approaches I have seen to understanding who the two witnesses are…rarely have I seen consideration given to the contextual reality that brings them forth? If we consider that “they” (witnesses) emerge out of the measuring of the House of God...measuring the “naos” the actual presence of God Himself, measuring the altar, measuring those who worship there...one thing that we can see that materializes out of this measurement is an understanding of “their” maturity and ability to perfectly represent the Lord on the earth. It would seem that vs. 5&6 tell us that very thing…agreed? It is depicted as two witnesses. So, what we want to do is to look closely at the essence of the characteristics of these two witnesses. Remember it is quite typical for the Lord to send two witnesses: He sent the disciples (human) out two by two; He also speaks of the two symbols of water and the word as bearing “witness,” i.e. “olive trees and lampstands.” We are looking into the meaning of this symbology while allowing the Holy Spirit to “tell” or “show” us what He means. What witness emerges out of the measurement of the House of God? Well as He measures the House of God, it is judged to be perfect…because God Himself has built the house. What has God built? Instead of thinking about two humans or two personages, one should see that, in the manner of God sending a reliable testimony, the reference is to two witnesses or perhaps two types/symbols of witness. The symbols John saw in the heavens that day…point to that which is existent on the earth…at the time to which the prophecy is appointed to come in to existence. What are the characteristics that would identify these two witnesses as representing the epitome, or the two things that testify as to the level of maturity that has been attained, if this is “a man in the image and likeness of God?” When Yahshua came, He is the type of this…perfection according to His Father. He Himself said that His witness or His testimony was both what He said and what the Father who sent Him said. He said that the Father who sent Him bore witness of Him being the sent One. Now at the baptism of Yahshua in the river Jordan, there was actually the appearing of the divine witnesses: the Spirit and the Father. The Spirit descended on Him in the form of a dove; the Father testified as to who He was. Yahshua would refer back to that whenever He was challenged or questioned by the Jews, and principally the religious leaders of the Jews, at the time. He would say, “I have no need for your affirmation of Me, because the One who has sent Me has testified concerning Me. The works I do and the words I speak, they are not My own. It is the Father living in Me who is doing His work.” His point is, “If you do not believe what I actually say, at least believe Me for the works that I do, because the works I do testify as to who I am.” So that is the nature that is behind the two witnesses…see it? It is important for us then to understand who the two witnesses are. And they appear in duplicate, two and two: there are two olive trees and two lampstands (touch that later). The repeating function of the two testifying is for the purpose of authenticating that word. The Scriptures even say, “Where two agree as touching a matter, it shall be so.” “But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth” (Revelation 11:2-3 NKJV). The Gentiles will be rampaging at the same time. They will trample and tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. So while Yahshua lived on the earth and represented the Father in the epitome of the Spirit of God, and the word of the Father, and the acts of the Father, the unbelievers…although they were Jews, they were unbelievers. It is a reference to how they made the temple into a den of thieves and were no better. Even though the temple had been given to them, they were no better than the Gentiles, which are, in this connotation and in this context, heathen or unbelieving. At the same time God says, “I will empower My two witnesses,”...for the same time period...“and they will prophesy.” This means they will authentically represent Christ…completely clothed with the Glory of God...on earth…living in like fashion as the Christ Himself did. This measured and judged people of God will exhibit two characteristics for the same period that the unbelievers on the temple grounds, the unbelievers in proximity to the real House of God, during that time there will be this conflict. There is more to say…this is enough for now I suppose. May His revelation feed you. Tatwo…:)

That could change somethings about "Israel's" role in the end of the age...no? Tatwo...:)