tatwo

I completely agree Luigi...you are speaking in truth brother...however...the U.S. "is also" in this current predicament...the mainstream media and the utterly censored social or alternative media...are hiding it Brother...they are hiding it...and the good old U.S of A is fixen to to experience something that has never happened and it will be multi level when it happens....birth pangs on a woman in labor... While the world and the religious say...that conspiracy stuff on YouTube ain't real Luigi...lets go back to fighting about the righteousness of Israel as they do to Gaza what was apparently done to them by Hitler...only worse...and wait for the Lord to deliver us from any sacrifice we might be asked to make...and take us to heaven. You are right Luigi...collapse is upon the nations...I added the U.S...the economy of the beast is pressing those who "dwell on the earth"...for those who dwell in heaven...they have been given their own economy...its called the Kingdom of God. Does anyone hear the Lord today? Tatwo...:)

Well "said" Eddy... The truly bizarre reality accompanying the idea that the mark is physical or it is not here yet also says that the beast is not here yet. The concept of the realm of the invisible simply must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. Redd..:)

What is the “good news”…and what exactly does it mean to “share” it? If that in deed is what is happening…then it “would” produce what Paul testifies to have happened when he was doing it? Does anyone here see anything close…today? I am attempting to answer that here Sower…there is little to none…qualified spiritual “fatherhood” among the church today. The church is run by orphans today…the orphans are leading it astray because they do not have a “Father” with which to identify as a “Son!”…nor do they have an access to an inheritance in their father…he is a liar. Tatwo...:)

Exactly…well did anyone expect? No apostles, few prophets, congregations and gatherings run by “shepherds”…the “leadership team” is void the essential “gifting, callings, anointing's”…that produce the effectual manifestations of the actual person of Truth…the presence of the Holy Spirit of the living God…dwelling in His house…? The picture you paint here Brother Sower is not that house…and there is only one reason why. Yes…while that is an incontrovertible truth…we must consider that when viewed from Paul’s depiction of the…“Body…that is to mature”…the step you are referring to here…”lost to saved”…is the “initial” step…the “beginning” step…as a “new born infant” in the Father of creations house. We are not “born again” as “mature sons” any more the Yahshua Christ was born as a fully mature son. Tatwo...:)

I understand you here…to some degree it shows where you are…may I ask how you feel about “specific or unique” calls, gifts and manifestations in relationship to the Body of Christ? I am thinking about what Paul wrote concerning the subject in at least a couple of places. 1st Corinthians 12 and Ephesians 4 where he specifies the operation and differentiation in…gifts, calls, and or manifestations…that are in “direct service” to the Body of Christ. Consider 1st Corinthians 12:4-7 for example…”Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord. There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good.” Things like…words of wisdom, knowledge…then there is faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, discerning of spirits, various tongues and interpretations…and there are more. The picture here as portrayed by Paul the apostle…is the Body of Christ being likened to a living and functioning organism…”A living Body.” It must have been a monumental priority for Paul in his journey, teaching and work. In Ephesians 4 he again calls out the specific “gifts” the Lord left to His Body at His ascension…apostles, prophets, evangelist, shepherds, teachers…and these are said to be “for” the Body…”our” equipping and building up until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. Paul writes things like…”we are to no longer to be like children” and that we are to speak the truth in love…we are to grow up [spiritual maturity] in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ. It is in this…that the Head…Yahshua…the Holy Spirit…builds or “assembles” the whole body…which is being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies…according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love. It’s a picture of the typical biological “birth to maturity” reality as I see it. How important to the Lord might it be for each one of His children/sons to know, understand, live and grow in to a “mature man” in His…the Lords “unique and divine intention” for them? How important might that be for each one of the “sons of God” to do the same? That is the picture Paul paints here of the “Body of Christ here on the earth”…is it not? If it has changed…where do I find the authority that has conferred this change? I can see that there has been a change…Sower you well know…huge change…by that I mean…where do you or anyone on these forums see “Paul’s version of Body” in action in your/their life? If you do/are… are you living there? I rarely if ever hear anything about that early style “church” today…why...why? I know why…none seem to care…but wasn’t that the point of the prophecy of the…“apostasy?” Tatwo...:)

Greetings Sower... Sure…that is a definition of “destiny or end.” However Sower…the verse you quote states we are “His workmanship” doesn’t that reflect His vision…interaction…instruction…involvement desire…love…intimacy…personally in our existence? Not merely a predetermined state or end that begins and then is left to run its own course? Let me try to explain… Later you state…”Growing in the word, called to be a carpenter, and the call to be a help through my craft to those in some need I could fill.” Sower…I am being somewhat ambiguous perhaps typical here if you will…general even…let’s look at the idea of “workmanship” and consider for a moment the “thing” that you as a “carpenter” may be “putting your hand or craft” to…“building/constructing”…for example…including anything you do. At some point early on in the project “perhaps” prior to even beginning it…in your mind’s eye there is a “blue print…picture…vision…idea or concept” of some sort…that likely gives you a place to start…with some element of the end result in view…it may include some goals or objectives along the way…and perhaps some element or vision of the completed “project”…can you relate? So there is some degree of the completed picture of the project that evolves in your mind that guides you through the unique steps of your “craft or skill set.” Where to begin…how to proceed…when to adjust…etc…you know what you are doing and trying to achieve and are driving at that in the duration of the project…and this based upon your skill set and passion…can we think of that as “workmanship?” If you are working for a “client” who wishes to utilize your skill and craft you must connect with them as to their expectation of the outcome. Then you…as the craftsman who’s “workmanship” will determine the final result…will be tasked with providing the vision…steps…process…answers…initially verbally…and it will be based upon “your” understanding of what “you” can do…what you ultimately do and see as the final result…no? My overstated point is this…Brother Sower…you…as the “craftsman”…will walk with your “client” step by step…closely interacting all along the journey with your “idea” of the project…focusing on what you perceive as a “shared and desired outcome” of the same. While you are driving at that completed fulfillment…that is to become the end product of this partnership and endeavor…that will be “your workmanship.” Bro…you know the process…a successful journey to completion is the key to a successful outcome…its via interaction…give and take, change, mistake, learning, overcoming, relationship, excellence, desire, conviction and so on. What I am saying is…”HIS Workmanship” is like that…only “HE is the craftsman” our destiny is HIS project…and He is as involved with us…as you are with the theoretical “client” I was speaking of above. Tatwo...:)

Friend...that is a large request really…altogether too big for right now… I feel like it is going well Koneckey…thanks for asking…I take that opinion from my Lord, family and friends. My call…? It’s been a “process” I see as happening something like this…my first “call” is to be “reconciled to God” and become a “son of God” by being called out of the kingdom of darkness and in obedience to His Word I was “born again of the water and Spirit.” Abba Father...I liken that to being “saved or rescued”…and then being placed in the Body of Christ…or temple/house of God. It is here that I find my purpose or as you asked “call.” That’s “salvation” as I define it…”changing fathers”…as I say from time to time…saved from the condemnation of the dragon and the wages of sin. It is an excellent experience afforded me and each of His sons…made available by the "Royal Priest" Himself. At that point I was a spiritual “infant”…you know excitedly bouncing around in the Kingdom of God in a state of “new birth excitement.” I have grown substantially in my spiritual maturity along the lines of what I have said prior…and have gained an even greater excitement...typically tempered with a deeper grace. Over time I “grew” a bit in the excitement of my new salvation experience…which included a fantastic miraculous physical healing I might add…the Lord grabbed my attention and began to show me the initial stages of who “He sees me as”…or who “He created me to be”…in Him…you know…that “eternal pre-creation intention” He has for me…the good works, which God prepared beforehand so that “I” would walk in them. I was apprehending these and beginning to learn obedience. Think for a moment Koneckey…the scenario of the Lord at the well in Sychar…when the disciples show up asking Him if He is hungry and He says this in response…"My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to accomplish His work.” Again this speaks to the uniqueness or peculiarity of His “predestined call.” He knows He is the only begotten of the Father…the savior of humanity…the Lamb of God…which by the way…He would be the only one…ever…with that "specific call"…He knows what He has been sent here for…and while He is on the earth He is set on doing exactly what the will of His Father was for Him…He overcame everything…unto its "utter" accomplishment and fulfillment. He is who I see as my example you know…I am not there yet…however I am ever learning to do His will and to an increasing degree accomplishing His works...so that “I” may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. Three months after I was “born of the water and Spirit” I was headed to the prisons of Southern California where I became a prison chaplain in three prison systems…and for the next 7 years I worked with 100’s criminals guilty of every offense and endless prison staff. It was early on in this venture that I realized that the Lord Yahshua Christ was clearly “reconciling” me to His “specific divine predestined” call. Inmates, guards, friends everyone in those 3 prison's and its environments learned of God's eternal passion for them...the manifest presence of the Holy Spirit was obvious to most. There were physical healings...souls were delivered of demonic spirits and emotions...100's of baptisms...and many son's were born unto our God in those days. There were a number of "assemblies" that came forth from that "work." I must not neglect to mention that my wife of nearly 40 years now...was right with me in all of this and she more than held up her end of the work. Reconciled to Him as my Father thus experiencing “salvation”…then being allowed to mature some…in my new “house with my new Father”…then being reconciled to “His personally desired will for my life” and the ever increasing illumination of how I was to accomplish these works. Salvation and then reconciliation to my call in that order… I’ll leave it at that for now and watch to see what responses you get…this should be interesting. Tatwo...:)

Nice…thanks for sharing…I am sure others will ask this also…”what is your call and destiny in your Father’s house?” Tatwo...:)

Greetings Koneckey, I agree that we are in the “end of the age”…and it is interesting that you connect that with the Lord building up His Body into the “full stature” of who He Himself is…Paul wrote this…“a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ.” That is a “Truth” that not many people grasp…I would say. That leaves one in perpetual spiritual immaturity…where in their minds…they believe that "mere tenure"…equals growing up in maturity into the Head. That's how they do it in church I have seen that. There are a fair amount of those in “oversight” here on “worthy” who are responding to you…I am sure we will get some “mature” insight from them. I’ll take a crack at your request here as well… That’s true…in Ephesians 2 he states as you did…”We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” We are predestined in Christ from before the foundations of creation…awesome…that speaks to our eternal nature in the Spirit. Additionally in 1st Corinthians 12:18 Paul wrote…”God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired”…think about that…”placed each one of them…in the body…just as He desired.” Speaks to intimacy really…and individuality uniqueness or even peculiarity. Now when you add that He called us “beforehand” one can feel the eternal Love of the Father…talk about destiny. Tatwo...:)

This is one of those cases where I really cannot discern the nature of your intent...are you saying the Lord requires people to be comfortable so HE can get some "word" in them...or are you being facetious? Tatwo...:)

Neighbor…this “worship” you speak of here and I am including your prior descriptions as you have stated “weekly corporate worship service”…“Worship is…as…serious business” is really “Judaistic” or perhaps “Catholic/Protestant/Evangelical/Pagan” as your description appears in my mind. I mean no offence…the picture your painting as I am seeing it…from your words in this post…looks like a “form of” typical ancient/modern temple worship…right? Think of worshippers going to the “temple/church/synagogue/building/edifice” and engaging in whatever and however they worship typically. How relevant to this discussion is Paul’s writing in Romans 12:1 for example where he explains “service of worship”…as they are translated from the same Greek word G2999 “latreia” defined as “divine service of worship”…let’s see what Paul wrote here…I think it fits…and may be helpful to us as we proceed in this endeavor? “Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.” Here the apostle Paul describes the “spiritual service of worship”…some of the very things you have brought forth here Neighbor…as “presenting your bodies as a living holy sacrifice.” What is that but a consecrated to God…week by week, day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute, breath by breath, thought by thought lifestyle…of sacrificing ones “personal desire” for their life…to the Holy Spirit…that He may “live His eternal life through us?” Which incidentally…would be the only way that our “living sacrifice” would be “accepted by God.” Typically people think of “sacrifice” as in the case of something that dies…however this speaks of one who is yet “alive…living…who’s existence is upon the alter in the most holy place in the temple of God…right? In Paul’s depiction of our “spiritual service of worship” we are to lay down our personal desires and ambitions…there’s the death required in sacrifice…receive our “unique call” from God in Christ…and in this allow the Holy Spirit to transform our mindsets from the “kingdom of darkness” to the “Kingdom of God” so that we may be able to “prove” what the “good acceptable and perfect will of God is”…agreed? This proving would be through our living and lifestyle…all of it. Which is what the Lord did prior to His delivery of that amazing picture on the mountain that day…no? Now we can see why you so passionately stated…oh yeh I felt you bro…“If my Lord's talk at the Mount is indeed a sermon, I don't think I have heard another from any pastor preacher priest in my lifetime that is anything like it.” I am not saying that corporate assemblies or gatherings are unacceptable…no I do not see them as such…however neither can they be defined as “spiritual service of worship”…to the Lord…in and of themselves. There is so much more to this…I’ll leave it here for now. Tatwo...:)

I can relate...however when these hirelings read from the scriptures it is the same as sermonizing to me because…one…most of them are not called nor qualified to divide the words of righteousness. Two…they typically are not living the life as described by the Lord on the mount that day. He bore the “Image and likeness of God”…the typical sermonizer does not…this bodes poorly for its hearers. Tatwo...:)

I would ask you then Neighbor…why do you say that or why is that so for you? No…simply put no. The Sermon on the Mount was a description of life in the Kingdom of God on earth coming from the mind of the Lord’s Spirit. Any “sermon or presentation” that does not compliment the picture painted by the Lord Yahshua Christ in His revelation there that day…is a counterfeit and false. To this day…when He speaks…when the “Word of God” speaks…He is revealing Himself to our spirits…this explains why the “sons of God” cannot stomach those unfortunate events. For further understanding simply look at the story that precedes that trip to the mountain that day…The Lord Yahshua is operating from the very throne of God in His power and authority…He is literally bearing the “full authentication and pleasure” of His Father and He’s only short time removed from the victory He won in the “wilderness and the three temptations from the dragon.” He then goes to a wedding in Cana of Galilee where He began the manifestation of His glory… He was going throughout all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every kind of disease and every kind of sickness among the people. They brought to Him all who were ill, those suffering with various diseases and pains, demoniacs, epileptics, paralytics; and He healed them. Large crowds followed Him from Galilee and the Decapolis and Jerusalem and Judea and from beyond the Jordan. Then He took the “crowds” to the mountain and explained all that “He had done….was doing…and was going to do” which included that soon He would be imparting of the Kingdom of God to humanity…and how they are to live as a result. He spoke with an authority that the contemporaries of His day could not match and the people knew this. To be honest Neighbor…I rarely if ever consider the word in the last 30 years. Early on…as I remember…it seems that the preachers distanced themselves from that word in favor of a myriad of other preferred terms…it did not however change the payload of what was being delivered by the same. Tatwo...:)

The mental picture the word “sermon” creates for me is very much the same as you have described for yourself Neighbor. However my understanding of the invisible realms of the “spirit world” both the kingdom of the dragon and the Kingdom of God…always leaves me highly suspicious of those who spout forth “a lengthy tedious reproof, or exhortation.” I do not believe that this is merely happenstance…clearly the dragon is attacking the sons of God today. I would suggest that today we all should recognize as the “end of the age” is coming forth…so is the increase of the persecution upon the Body of Christ…which I believe that most of those “sermon preaching” characters are setting up for. They make "Christ" seem unpalatable and unnecessary to many...this brings reproach...I do not think that they all realize this either…nor do their congregants in most cases. By my standards…”sermonizers” as you Neighbor have defined them…that is if…I understand you I would agree…they are wolves in sheep’s clothing opposing the Kingdom and the people of God. Tatwo...:)

Expanding the discussion a bit perhaps…here Neighbor…you are defining what you acknowledge “worship is not” accompanied by your definition of what “Worship is…as…serious business” followed by additional details of your perspective? If one is to understand your focus here and the point of your OP…one must acknowledge…as you are suggesting…the “presentation” is included in the “serious business of a worship service” and you liken it to a “vitality infusion” which is a part of what you describe as the “high point of each week?” It is important that each understands “their definition of worship” in regards to life “in Christ”…and it is my assumption that you are doing just that. Initially you state that a “Worship service is a high point, make that the high point, of each week.” I think I am following up to this point. Here you are adding some detail to your description from immediately above…I have a question, you wrote…“For the word of God spoken, read, thoughtfully questioned and considered for best application, via exposition, is a builder of strength for use in all that is and will occur during the entire week, each week.” So…staying in context…you are discussing some of the “finer details” of the “presentation” element of a “weekly corporate worship service.” It is from here that I will ask this question…in regards to your statement…“thoughtfully questioned”…is that a publicly expressed “questioning” in the weekly corporate worship service? This does serve as a more detailed definition…from you Neighbor…as to your desire, preference, vision or expectation of the weekly worship service. Likening the experience, impact, or effect of a weekly worship service…to a daily intake of a fine breakfast meal each morning…? Tatwo...:)