tatwo

Greeting @Bill Barton... The Lord Yahshua Christ..."was a Jew"...He "was an Israelite" of that there can be no argument but..."He" is no longer that. In His flesh He was most assuredly those things...after His resurrection He is "Eternal Spirit" only. In the Spirit realm...the Kingdom of Heaven...there are no Jews...no gentiles...no slaves or free...no male or female. The "Sons of God" have gone through a..."renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all." One "Spirit Man" no creation centric natural ethnic designation. That's why Paul said... "For the love of Christ controls us, having concluded this, that one died for all, therefore all died; and He died for all, so that they who live might no longer live for themselves, but for Him who died and rose again on their behalf. Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer." If you know Him...it is by the Spirit. There are no doubt redeemed Jews in the "Woman"...but if they are redeemed...from the Kingdom of God perspective...they no longer "identify" as Jews...they are Spirit Born Sons of the Living God. They are citizens of an eternal spiritual nation of Royal priests...there is a difference...and eternal difference. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Vine Abider... You’re welcome Brother Vine... It is an explosive topic as well and that probably lends itself to the fact that few respond. That and that it has been beat around so much already...that maybe some folks figure...what’s the point. Thank you for reviving it...you obviously see something. This is a nice analogy...you say...“He came to both save us from what we'd fallen into - and also restore us to God's original intention for us.” Yes and I agree...However I am of the opinion that the “both” are “one” and the same...and I add to it from 1st John 3:8b “The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.” To “reconcile man to God” and to “destroy the works of the devil”...and in this discussion as it proceeds...if it proceeds...the latter is going to come into view increasingly. That's exciting...the connection of the scriptures concerning “birth pangs” is a direct one to one correlation...first spoken by the King Himself...and then through the apostle Paul who says things like...“For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God”... “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”... “For as the woman originates from the man, so also the man has his birth through the woman; and all things originate from God.” This is “Christ” the “Son of the living God”...”Head and Body as One Spirit”...the man in the image and likeness of God the Father...who is the eternal Spirit...and the very reason He put creation forth as a pendant that hangs from His neck if you will. He is outside of creation...creation exists within Him. Yes it is...yes it is...and it has not been fully rolled out as of today...I am sure of it. Not only is it “forward looking” Bro...it is a book of “culminations”...a completing and perfecting of “all” things. Something like the draw strings on a purse...pulling the entirety of all of scripture together in perfection...using the previous iterations of important prophetic happenings to help us interpret scripture today...that are logged from Genesis on. I have read your later posts...and appreciate how you are leading us through this exciting reality...thank you. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Marilyn C...nice to “see” you “The `woman` of Rev. 12 is Israel who are protected in the trib” Not possible Sister...not possible...read on for an explanation...I will take you on a brief journey to where you have never been adding just a touch of scriptural jurisprudence along the way. It will be just a bit of journey...its a 10 minute read straight through might take longer perhaps. The “Old Covenant Levitical priesthood”...the Law of Moses...and all that goes with it ended no later than the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 A.D. It will never be back Marilyn...simply because the “Old Covenant and its law” has been superseded, fulfilled and replaced by one that is “greater.” It’s done and so are the people for which God made that “national” covenantal agreement with Abram...gone. In Hebrews chapter 7 Paul wrote this...speaking of the change from the Law of Moses and the Levitical priesthood ...“For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also.” No more Levite...no more animal sacrifice...no sacramental ceremonies...no more Law of Moses...in other words. It would do you much good to read and understand what Hebrews chapter 7 means...because it is Truth...I will give you a brief overview...if you want to discuss it further I am willing. Consider Paul in Hebrews 10...“After saying above, "SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them" (which are offered according to the Law), (9) then He [Christ] said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second.” The “Old Covenant” that God made with the sons of Jacob...thereby fulfilling the first part of His covenant with Abram...”a great nation”...instituted both the Law of Moses and the administrative priesthood of Aaron-Levi. A priesthood is how the administration of the “sacramental ceremonies and sacrificial duties and instruction in God’s commandments and the Law” [God’s Will] is fulfilled...which is predominantly what a “God ordained priesthood” does...and it will follow the parameters of the associated Covenant. The Lord Yahshua Christ then...effectively rendered the “Levitical priesthood” as “unnecessary” due to the arrival of the “New Covenant” in the Lord’s blood...thereby changing the “priesthood and the law also” as Paul explains. When the Lord’s sacrifice was accepted upon His death...He had then successfully fulfilled the “Law and Prophets” of the “Old Covenant” thereby canceling the administration of the order of Levi. This also enacted the “New Covenant” and with that...there was a completely “new priesthood and a new law”...this time after the eternal [no beginning no end] order of Melchisedek. So...the “temporal natural” order of “Levi” was superseded by the “eternal spiritual” order of “Melchisedek.” For those who do not get this...much of the basis of your “Israel [natural] centric eschatology” as I have understood it...will fail you and possibly find you in rebellion...not just deception...I am not kidding. Here’s why...the “eternal order of Melchisedek” is known as the “Royal Priesthood”...it was in existence before creation and on the earth prior to “Abram” himself. This priesthood has absolutely “nothing” to do with the “Israel of antiquity” or “any physical temporal nation” ever created on the earth. It is referenced by Peter as...“A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.’ This is a “spiritual nation” Marilyn C...there was never anything “natural” about this eternal nation...nor could there be. The natural bodies of the people that make up this chosen race in any given epoch will all pass away...all there is then...is their Eternal Spirit. The “Royal Priesthood after the order of Melchizedek” is the “Eternal Spiritual Priesthood” of Lord Yahshua Christ who is the “King and High Priest” of the order. This is what makes it the “Royal Priesthood” Sister Marilyn. It is ”Spirit and Eternal” and it is the only priesthood/nation that has ever or can ever exist in the eternal Spirit Kingdom of God...there are no others. This priesthood is exclusive...made up of only the Spirit Sons [M/F] of God as its priests...it is a “spiritual nation of Royal Priests”...one must be born again and has to worship the Lord Yahshua Christ as God...to enter the Royal Priesthood because...it is made up of “the spirits of the righteous made perfect.” Spirit not flesh...eternal not created...spiritual not natural...superseding anything natural. The Lord Yahshua was recorded as having said...“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.” He is a Spirit...a Holy Spirit...and there is no other way into the Kingdom of our God...but by Spirit only....flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. God fulfilled His initial covenant with Abram in Jacob and the nation of Israel...that nation has come and gone. Then He fulfilled/fulfilling the second part of His covenant with Abram in Yahshua and the Body of Christ. “First the natural and then the spiritual”...“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” The woman of Revelation chapter 12 is the false church...an impersonator of the true bride...filled with all manner of lies, deceit and false doctrines of demons...leading the people of God astray...aka the “Babylonian harlot”...who completely loses her way in the wilderness over the centuries. She is doing to the church what she did to Israel...so...the Lord Yahshua will send her into the wilderness to a place He has prepared for her...after the Holy Spirit finishes drawing out from among her...all of the mature Sons of God. This is the...“Man Child” that she “births forth”...the “man in the image and likeness of God”...the Head and Body of Christ...Christ the Son of God...who is upon the throne of God “in the heavenly places in Christ” right now. We have got to humble ourselves in the presence of the Living Word beloved...it is here and only here that revelation will flow forth from on High to light our pathway. Tatwo...:)

Greetings Brother @Vine Abider... Yes...I have been attempting to show this for at least 3 maybe 4 years... Until you here...there has not been a lot of discussion about this...some...but mostly because people who have no idea of what to think...believe it is Yahshua...who happens to be giving John the Revelation...and that He is telling John...that the "Man Child" is Him. There have been many other guesses that people offer based upon their preferred doctrines that man has concocted that only serve to blind them. I have given a clear explanation of who this is...no one can see it...I am fine with that btw...because He will come forth as prophesied in God's original intent and very purpose for which He put creation in place to begin with. The reason people are divided on this prophecy...and few can resolve the issue is...that the truth of it...when revealed will consume with fire...the basis of the evangelical eschatology...they won't have that...yet...He will force the issue and many many believers are not ready...let alone prepared. I am open for discussion...it will take a revelation from the Lord Yahshua Himself...for one to understand. Tatwo...:)

This is going to leave a "mark"...pun intended...somewhat? We definitly would benefit in an upgrade of our understanding of Christ...perhaps this will assist some...? Ok so I can see your point...based upon “your” depiction of the “Two Witnesses”...but...what if your idea of the Two Witnesses is incorrect? It seems that many have either forgotten that when the Old Covenant was fulfilled in the Lord Yahshua Himself...or perhaps they simply never understood...that...the administration of God’s covenant specific to Israel ceased as well. I am referencing the “Levitical Priesthood”...which was made up of “men” of the tribe of Levi. Most folks can probably agree with that...but many may not understand the fact that with the change of the covenant...comes a change of the priesthood. The administration of the New Covenant is also carried out by “priesthood”...an “eternal priesthood” which existed prior to the "Levitical priesthood" and to be a bit more specific...a priesthood known as the “order of Melchizedek.” Most have heard of it...but generally I think it means little to most...which is unfortunate. You’re probably thinking...”what does the priesthood have to do with the Two Witnesses?” Well it is the characteristics of this priesthood after the order of Melchizedek that I would like to point you to. First we all realize that the Lord Yahshua Christ is known as the “King of kings”...secondly...not that there is a specific order or importance here but...we all also know that Yahshua is also the “High Priest Forever.” If you are the “Eternal King of kings” who sits on the throne of God...you are “Royalty”...if that “Eternal King” who sits upon the throne of God is also the “Eternal High Priest” in the Kingdom God...you have is what is known as a “Royal Priesthood.” Yahshua Christ is the “Royal Priest” of the Kingdom of Heaven and of God on the earth thus fulfilling the New Covenant. Perhaps many have heard this...? Now...Peter in his first letter chapter 2 describes the Lord as a “living stone”...and His Body as “living stones.” He goes on to say that we are a “spiritual house for a holy priesthood to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” This is the “priesthood” that “administrates” the “New Covenant” in the Kingdom of God on earth...that I had mentioned earlier. Then Peter goes on to say in reference to the Body of Christ...“But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light.” Have you seen the connection yet? Let me clear it up for you if possible...that statement in 2nd Peter 9 where Peter wrote...“so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him...” is in reference to the “Holy Priesthood that offers up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God in Christ” this is the Body of Christ and it is them only...that proclaims the glory of God in the authority and power of the throne of God. As I hope you can see...the “Body of Christ” which includes its “Head”...is also referenced by Peter as “A Royal Priesthood” and it is this “Royal Priesthood” that administers spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God...through Yahshua Christ in the New Covenant by His blood. Because God has deemed their...“spiritual sacrifice” as “acceptable”...this in turn...authenticates, authorizes and empowers the “Body of Christ” aka “Royal Priesthood” aka a “Holy Spiritual Nation” to “proclaim the excellencies of Him[Christ]” which reveals the man in the image and likeness of God to creation on the earth. Which “Man” is the Royal Priest...He is both [1] King of kings and [2] Eternal High Priest and these are the “Two Witnesses” Dennis. These are the two primary characteristics of Christ...the Son of the living God...and as such...they are the only ones “qualified” to carry the presence of the “Holy Spirit” in creation to “proclaim the excellencies of Him[Christ]” and they are qualified by the work of the Lord Yahshua Christ. I know what this does to evangelical and mainstream doctrines concerning the eschaton...I mentioned that before many times. It will show them as the folly they have always been. Who said the “beast is yet future?” For those who struggle in receiving what I have laid out here...I understand that...it is very likely something you have never heard or if you have...maybe you do not believe...why? Though I have dug much deeper into these things than what is presented here...what I have presented...every bit of it is spiritually based scripturally founded. And Christians like you Dennis...want to lay something like “One brief example: How long ago was it that people wondered how the Two Witnesses could be viewed in real time globally, and send presents around the world rapidly, celebrating their demise? Today, that is a no-brainer: FedEx next-day or same-day delivery, billions of smartphones, live streaming, and more.” Up against an eternal Truth that was established before creation even existed...revealed to Christ and is in the works today. The two witnesses will be found in every tribe, tongue, people and nation...they are everywhere even today. Over the course of the last 2000 years...He...the corporate Christ...has been being raised up by the Lord Yahshua in the Kingdom of God...in the temple of God where the actual divine Spirit presence of the eternal God and Father of our Lord Yahshua Christ...eternally dwells and abides. This Man...a “Spirit Man” when fully matured...which will be “soon” we are in that age now...will be revealed to a creation that is groaning for the revealing of the Sons of God. This is the many membered Corpus Christi who was sent to “reconcile man to God and destroy the works of the devil” who is...and will be all about doing His Father will and accomplishing His Fathers works. This Man...the Eternal Holy Spirit empowered Son of God...”Christ”...which the Spirit has authorized through their obedience and acceptable sacrifice...will be used to bring judgment upon a sinful rebellious unbelieving world including the all the creatures in darkness. Christ Head and Body is not leaving earth until the will of God is fulfilled...didn’t we see that modeled in the Lord Yahshua? At that time...the "Spirit and the Bride will say come Lord Yahshua." Tatwo...:)

I can see that Dennis...and I had been a part of its “construction and implementation” if you will...a work of which I ceased...at the Lord’s beckoning...but...I have been “closely monitoring it” as it comes forth...and this for 30 years. However...I have learned that “modern advanced technology” is really only the “contemporary version” of the beast that has actually evolved from antiquity...and that it has continually evolved nearly uninterrupted throughout the epochs of creation...as the Lord has allowed. I am amazed by the fact that so few believers actually realize this today...which is testimony to the dragon’s ability to conceal and counterfeit himself and his plans. Most of evangelical Christianity sees the beast and its mark as future and no one can tell them otherwise...not even the Holy Spirit or the scriptures He authored...that plainly declare such. This however may be changing based upon this conversation in my eyes...can we humble ourselves before the Living Word and receive His prophetic light and revelation in and for this hour? It is just a matter of whether one decides to be spiritually prepared [obedient to their call] for this reality and watching it manifest openly as it will...being empowered to “deal with it”...or...whether one is spiritually seduced and deceived about its existence and its present manifestation. That is an unpopular discussion among church goers and as a result not much is ever said about an “ancient or current dragon’s beast”...who has been here all along albeit continually growing in size and power. Very few have seen it...of those who have...a large percentage of them do not recognize what they are beholding they have no basis of experience or knowledge by which to understand. This is because of what they are told...by those who have been deceived. This precisely why the “motb” is so misunderstood...the spirit of the beast is the supreme deceiver. His ability to deceive mere carnal humanity both religious and worldly...is totally unimaginable. So...for him to inspire a belief structure that completely “conceals” its identity and then totally “counterfeits” its function and existence...thereby hiding the “mark” that he marks his “victims” with...unbeknownst to them for the most part...which has worked for at least a couple millennia. Think about it...a pseudo god beast...predatory in character and nature who feeds upon human souls since it was merely a “serpent” in the Garden. It is this one who is responsible for all sin and rebellion in the second heavens, on the earth and among humanity...against God. This one successfully deceives the souls of mankind into believing it is something it is not... “Christ”...while at the same time concealing its true identity. For those who may actually “see it” most of them as I have said before...simply do not recognize and understand what they are “seeing” so they can do nothing with or about it. Then there are the “Prophetic Sons of God”...who are pointing it out to the house! This is why the Lord Yahshua left us an important message... “Take heed that no one deceives you. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many” The “beast’s structure” is as you say Dennis...”in place.” This was done by the beast that is empowered by Satan the dragon...who is and has been operative on the earth since the Garden of Eden. His “mark” has been here since then as well...and for those who know this they can see it...the rest are just guessing. I am open for discussion concerning the matter...with anyone...no need for fear. Tatwo...:)

Interesting...what would you call “your part” in that exchange with Michael37 concerning Isaiah 28:15? There seemed to me a “special” prophetic insight there? I enjoyed the read...was somewhat impressed by the conversation on both of your parts...albeit a look at how God plans to use the dragon to judge the sinful rebellious world...fascinating. This seems to be a strong line of interest among Christians...God’s plans for Satan I mean? I see a lot of that in the forums and in my personal life as well. Let me ask...when you say...“I do not have any special prophetic insight.” Are you referring to God’s plans in the New Covenant? The lord’s work with His family here in this age and moving forward? In any case...do “you” think anyone “possess” any “special prophetic insight?” Specifically of say...the church age? I examine today’s technology, which has never been seen, and apply it to how the “beast system” can be realized. To get the MOB requires allegiance and worship of the Beast, selling one's soul. You say...“selling ones soul” the giving of “one’s mind – thoughts and thought life – life pursuit” over to the kingdom of and the god of this “world?” A complete giving of one’s entire existence to the devil in the way the “Sons of God” are completely given to Christ...is that what you mean...the motb? Tatwo...:)

Greeting Brothers and Sisters on the forums...! Today...we shall overcome. Given the somewhat "emergent nature" of this discussion? One might come to the conclusion that there is a certain amount of “spiritual instability” in maintaining a position of “the beast is yet future.” At this point...entertaining any “suspicion” that the “beast” may be here today...or in the past...would seemingly compel those who love the Truth...to a deeper dive into this reality with the “living Word” as a light to our path way. Please remember the descriptions that Daniel and John respectively gave of the beast they saw? It is the same beast...seen about 600 years apart...there are changes in the descriptions...all the changes indicate an entity that is growing in size and power along with the scope of that which it controls. Perhaps you might refresh yourself...? “After this I kept looking in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, dreadful and terrifying and extremely strong; and it had large iron teeth. It devoured and crushed and trampled down the remainder with its feet; and it was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns. "While I was contemplating the horns, behold, another horn, a little one, came up among them, and three of the first horns were pulled out by the roots before it; and behold, this horn possessed eyes like the eyes of a man and a mouth uttering great boasts.” Daniel 7:7-8 NASB “And the dragon stood on the sand of the seashore. Then I saw a beast coming up out of the sea, having ten horns and seven heads, and on his horns were ten diadems, and on his heads were blasphemous names. And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and his feet were like those of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his throne and great authority. I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?" There was given to him a mouth speaking arrogant words and blasphemies, and authority to act for forty-two months was given to him. And he opened his mouth in blasphemies against God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, that is, those who dwell in heaven. It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation was given to him. All who dwell on the earth will worship him, everyone whose name has not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who has been slain.” Revelation 13:1-8 NASB @Dennis1209, and @Vine Abider...if what you are “intimating” which is the possibility of the “beast systems” in play...today...that should inspire...specifically...the people of God to call it out as it is...right? I am suggesting that the challenge for the “church” and the “world” is...that to a large degree most do not recognize the empire that is and has been emerging for centuries...today. So...they do not know what it is that they are looking at...it is so vastly different than any empire that preceded it...few have any basis for understanding it...right? The Holy Spirit completely understands this beast...and the “Words” that He gave and gives us clearly illuminates His understanding...all we need is His mind...which we have. Remember that He can and does disturb false doctrines. It was the glorious Lord of lord and King of kings...Yahshua the eternal...who is recorded as having said..."Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them." Tatwo...:)

Greetings Brothers @Dennis1209 and @Vine Abider... Similar in scope...meh? Interesting Dennis...and I thought you brought it up...anyways "it" has been brought up none the less. Is this a more “recent revelation/position” for you Dennis? Do you feel this is a changing perspective among believers in your realm...maybe? The reason I ask is because of what I said in my last post to you...“Frankly I remember having very few discussions on the subject of the beast and its mark as a present reality. As I said...it has all most always been a discussion about a future beast and its mark.” At this point...a spiritually and scripturally "sound" understanding pertaining to...“a Christian believers journey in the eschaton”...in regards to “Satan’s beast of systems” is essential in any measure really..."if it is or might be...here"...no? Light is available...the challenge is...can we discuss it as mature believers...that a clearer picture of both the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness may emerge? Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Dennis1209... You said..."The Beast system has developed right before our eyes, in this generation." Ok...thanks for the clarification...I can see truth in your statement here Dennis. Of course...the scripture tells us all “we need to know” about the dragon’s “beast of systems” and it extends beyond “this generation” in two directions...“past and future.” Perhaps we might have a look? Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Dennis1209... About this last sentence..."The Beast system has developed right before our eyes, in this generation." Am I correct in interpreting you as saying...that the beast is here also? As it would be that...which is developing its systems...right? I know that might seem like a lame question...the answer seems obvious. However in my experience in forums and in the church...traditionally I have encountered a significant portion of those I have discussed this with...believing that the beast is "yet future." I know where I stand on the issue and am confident in that place...and I am open for discussion and understanding even if it to simply understand another's view of something. It would seem that for those who see the beast as yet future...typically they also see the mark as future? I can see their point. For those who see the beast as present...do they see the mark as present also? Frankly I remember having very few discussions on the subject of the beast and its mark as a present reality. As I said...it has all most always been a discussion about a future beast and its mark. It appears like there would be significant competing "doctrines" between each view? I will say...again...I have not encountered much reading and discussion...some...but not much...about the beast as a "present reality." I can see that you and @Vine Abider are perhaps at different places...yet the issue of a "present beast" is in view here? Am I right...or am I misinterpreting this idea in some way? Relatively speaking it is rare that I have had a discussion in a forum or with the locals...where we were discussing the beast as "present today" even less in discussion about a present "mark of the beast." Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Vine Abider... Is this that you speak of...here today in your opinion? Tatwo...:)

Bro...you could put together a fantastic "forum and OP" on this subject...I know it! May God's favor continue to strengthen you Marathoner...you are an inspiration! Tatwo...:)

"what if falling church numbers is a good thing?" Well that is a matter of perspective...@Ghostdog...most won't even realize it and few actually care, for reasons they believe are just. Some do it to escape the pure foolery that their church has become as it tries to attain relevance in their culture. Other's...those who are looking for the "Body of Christ" and they will find it...they must leave...they are being "called out." A large portion of "Christianity" as a whole...referencing the entire "denominational empire"...sees this as something that happens to "the others"...the heretics, rebellious, unbelieving...largely after "they" are "gone?" Perhaps an accurate definition of "church" may be in order here? On top of that...Paul made it prophetically clear that some element of this "must" happen...so it will happen...and it is happening and will continue yet for a while. I am referencing the "falling away"...the "departure." For some...it will be like the Jews who departed from the law and Moses...which had become "anáthema"...and came to Yahshua Christ. "Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?" 2nd Thessalonians 2:1-5 NASB This could be an eye opening discussion? Tatwo...:)

Greetings to the house! Curiously...it seems like you @Vine Abider answered the question of the title of this forum as "yes" and then sort of backed off that statement? Perhaps it is just the way I am reading it...no worries. I however will answer it this way...No...the Lord Yahshua Christ “did not” come “just” to go to the cross. As for the “What was He after ultimately?” As Brother @Cntrysner stated in his post on page 3 of this forum...” I would say, to make man in His image...Gen_1:26 “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:” is likely a more revealing place to start this inquiry than at the cross...right? Considering that the “cross” as invaluable as it was/is...that is not the “beginning of His” journey. This discussion will not be had in its fullness if we limit it to this our understanding of “creation” and the “temporal reality” that is here...this was never merely a “flesh and blood” issue. Yahshua existed long before He robed Himself in the flesh of a man...He is eternal. That then always makes a number of believers uneasy. It would seem that Isaiah framed this truth in this manner...in chapter 9 verse 6...“For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the government will be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” So...prior to being...a “child who is born” and becoming a “Son that is given”...He exists as the “Mighty God” and the “Everlasting Father” upon whose shoulders the “government of God in creation” will rest...He is. And...because He is! He is alive...living an active...sharper than a two edged sword...so...we must inquire of Him directly...yes? This is how He will reveal...His...reasons and purposes for Him putting creation in place to begin with...as the foremost consideration in this discussion. Consider something Paul touches on in Colossians 1, speaking of Yahshua Christ...“For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in Him all the fullness should dwell, and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross.” So then...with Yahshua established in this discussion as the “creator” who “is before all things” as stated by Paul...and given the fact that “All things were created through Him and for Him”...understanding “His purpose”...for establishing creation within His eternal self...becomes paramount in answering @Vine Abiders question of...“What was He after ultimately?” The Father of creation takes the first 5 days to establish an abundant plush “creation” to support what He will do on the 6th day...create Adam His first Son...the first living soul...and put him on the earth in the garden...to rule. The scripture that Cntrysner brought up...which I referenced earlier...helps us to understand God’s purpose. Genesis 1:26-27...“Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth." So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.” This is likely a much better place to start...than the cross...to explore the important questions...“Did Christ come to just go to the Cross?”...and...“What was He after ultimately?” I read the forum a couple of times...save a mention or two of the “eternal pre-creation Christ” much of the discussion bounces around in the “temporal realm” with some connection to the Holy Spirit on the earth in man. What the Lord Yahshua Christ was/is after has its roots in the eternal...one must begin this journey there. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @biblelesson... I would agree with that...however the Holy Spirit filled Sons of God are not merely human. They are a “new being” like no other in creation...they embody the eternal “Royal Priesthood” of the New Covenant. They are eternal and that have the mind of Christ to boot. They can and do understand Ezekiel 1:17-20...that’s not the problem as you suggest...no. The problem is that if I were to attempt to “deconstruct” passages like Ezekiel 1:17-20...most of the people who would read it are of the same opinion as you biblelesson...which is..."no human can understand the passages...especially not you." This undermines their faith to begin with...simply because of the “doubt and unbelief” that anyone can know these things. If someone does interpret them...that causes pride to assault those who do not believe...because they never knew it...it makes people feel ignorant...and they are...but that is understandable...spiritual truths like this must be revealed by the Holy Spirit. On top of that it is a "mystery hidden in God for long ages past" and they are time sensitive I'll grant that...but that time has come. Why would anything written in the scriptures be completely out of reach to the mind of Christ...in His Sons...outside of timeing...as you seem to be saying? There are those who are called by the Lord and gifted to interpret these passages and have...apparently you and many others don’t actually know anyone who can. It requires “revelation” directly from the Lord Yahshua Christ so an opinion will not suffice to reveal the mystery. The revelation from the Lord concerning these "heavenly creatures" comes from the scriptures themselves...and...because of it's eternal character and nature...it will consume most of modern evangelical Christianity's doctrines with the fire of the "Word." We know they won't tolerate that type of thing. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Figure of eighty... I am going to assume that you are a child of God in my response, since I do not know better. Take stock in what you have posted here...are you being honest? It’s not that I think otherwise...it’s just a place to start...often times in troublesome situations our emotions cause us to “over think, over state, over play or over react” to the issues. I am not suggesting that you are...only offering a “next step of remediation” beginning with your thought process. Now...perhaps you can look back at the “pathway” into the “current situation” as you see it. I know that can be difficult...what you are looking for is the thought process that guided your emotions, actions and words on the journey to where you are...in other words...whats the condition of your condition” and why? Consider any potential impact upon the others around you...do this in the light of why you are there and whose place is it? Look for places where perhaps you were offended and you may have responded in an offensive manner...reason is...you may have “ruffled some feathers” or stirred up another’s emotions. Did you confront the others in love and understanding...for example? You’re looking at why relationships are toxic for you in your hour of need. Consider any emotionally charged responses or interactions toward or with the people you mentioned in your post...if any...warranted or otherwise. I am simply encouraging you to consider walking back through the journey to now...and to consider your own behavior in a greater detail. I am not saying you are at fault, I am not saying that others have always acted in a respectful manner...I don’t know those things...but. If you were to “honestly” do those things as I am suggesting you may be able to see where you could have done better...and do better moving forward...maybe? Why would this be important? Well...you really cannot mandate the attitude or behavior of others around you...but you do have the ability to take full responsibility for your attitudes and behaviors. The reason this is important is...because it may create a greater sense of “humility in you”...this then will draw the grace of the Lord Yahshua to you and your situation. That is what you need more than anything...He resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. I am not suggesting that you are “proud” my primary focus is upon “His grace to you” in your time of need...He is faithful. His grace consists of great things that you need but cannot supply for yourself...and He will reveal Himself to you in your situation. As He does this...you will be able to experience a deeper sense of thankfulness that can produce an attitude of forgiveness...and we all know how powerful and contagious forgiveness really is. Perhaps for now you cannot change the environment you are in...but look for the Lord’s leading as I have suggested. I am sure you are a loving mother...so continue to find ways to put those children in the best environment available...maybe the one you’re in for now. We are all in the process of being transformed by the renewing of our minds...and the principals of God are our best options May His awesome strength come to you in Love... Tatwo...:)

Greetings @truth7t7... The physical city of Jerusalem, Israel? It that what you are saying? Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Marilyn C... Here is what I am “saying”...in order for something to be “eternal” it had to have existed before creation and time. For example...“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.” The only thing that I am aware of that existed before the creation of the heavens and the earth is...God...who is a “Spirit.” When there was no creation and all that comes with it in the heavens and on the earth...there was the eternal Spirit of God the Father. Marilyn, from what I think I know...about that which exists eternally...can accurately be defined and qualified as “no beginning and no ending” and I would cite the “Spirit of God”...as both my proof and example. So...any connection to an eternal existence must be defined this way...the Spirit of God. So as it would seem...the only way for something to exist eternally is...to be of the same substance that God the eternal Spirit Himself “is.” I am speaking of that which “He” allots via Christ...and is realized and recognized as an endowment [of Spirit] out of His own person...which is Spirit. He does this...and rest assured that it is Him and only Him that can do this. “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father [eternal Spirit] but through Me.” This is the Lords personal and only...authenticated access to God...His eternal Spirit Father...and it is only offered to humans as He calls them to it. For those who respond to His call...in faith and obedience...they will then be...“reconciled”...meaning to...“reestablish a close relationship”...in this case a spiritual “likeness, oneness, or unity” with the eternal Spirit of God. This should tie my entire thought together for you Sister...the connection that a human has to the eternal Spirit of God is our human spirit...which came from God to begin with? When He indwells the human spirit with His Holy Spirit...that human spirit is then “reanimated and reconnected” to its pre-creation, preordained, predestined eternal existence. This eternal life only exists...in or as the Spirit of God. I quoted you Paul’s teaching on this very subject in an earlier post...here it is once again... Ephesians 1... “He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will...just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world...He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him...also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will” Romans 8...“For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son...and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.” Ephesians 2... “For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.” This is why Paul also teaches things like... “from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female” “For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek” “a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew” The Lord Himself put it this way... “That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Jews and gentiles are separate independent human flesh and blood definitions applied to those who can exist in creation only. For those of us who are born of God’s eternal Spirit...we are no longer merely carnal temporal human beings that can only exist in creation. We are “Spirit beings” whose spirits exist eternally in Christ...though some of us are yet clothed upon by flesh. Our spiritual existence is in the invisible Kingdom of God where Yahshua is...and we are eternally alive in the Spirit. This is why “in the Spirit realm of eternity” there are no distinctions between “Jew and Greek.” There is only one Kingdom in the eternal Spirit...the Kingdom of God...there is only one priesthood in eternity and it is the Royal Priesthood and the only nation in eternity is a Holy Nation and it is made up of “the spirits of the righteous made perfect.” Here I’ll leave you with a quote from Peter in regards to the matter Sister Marilyn C... “But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy. 1st Peter 2:9-10 KJV Tatwo...:)

Of course and I agree...with some exceptions...things that I have already presented to you. Marilyn C I understand your “eschatological world view” to an acceptable degree...I have been reading you for years. Everything that was created...was created by intention and for purpose by the Lord and for Him only. The Kingdom of Heaven [Holy Spirit Realm in creation] and the Kingdom of God [All authority and Power in creation] is presently an invisible eternal spiritual Kingdom...spanning both the heavens and the earth? It supports a completely different “citizenry”...an invisible yet real “spiritual citizenry”...they are the Spirit born Sons of God...known as “the spirits of the righteous made perfect.” The classifications you are using “nations – gentiles” and “Israel – Jews” have merit when speaking to a flesh and blood “earthly creature and existence.” It seems that you routinely conflate the eternal spiritual and temporally created realms...you may not see that...it is apparent to me...I understand that doctrinal stance also. For whatever it’s worth...I urge you to reconsider that position...and talk to the Holy Spirit about these things I am presenting you. May God strengthen you...via revelation? The former is eternal and spiritual...it is timeless, ageless unending ages, no beginning and no ending...Holy Spirit in character and nature...Yahshua. These are the ones who have passed through death into life...though some of them are yet clothed upon by flesh. All flesh will cease and yet...the Spirit that abides in Christ...within that dying flesh...cannot cease...it is this life that we are to pursue. The other...is temporal and physical...that which is created...has a beginning and has an ending just as everything that God created...will cease to exist when they have fulfilled God’s divine purposes. This includes all nations and peoples...for it is from them...the Father has granted to His Son...that He may reap a people for His name...those created in His image and likeness...Spirit...not flesh. The separation my Sister is happening as you read this...perhaps you might consider the “priesthood” and its role in the administration of its attendant covenant. With the Old Covenant you had the priesthood of “Aaron” aka the “Levitical priesthood” made up of finite men from Israel...who administered the elements of God for them...as a promised nation in order to bring forth...the seed of promise. This “Levitical priesthood”...was never intended as an eternal priesthood...and it is not Marilyn. With the New Covenant you have a “Royal priesthood” after the eternal order of Melchisedek remember? This Royal priesthood is not made up of finite men...but rather of righteous eternal spirits of men. Additionally its designation as “Royal” comes from the fact that the King of kings is upon the throne of God...and He is also the High Priest of the eternal priesthood...which existed long before creation...the nations or the Jews...no beginning no ending...eternal! All elements of the Old Covenant are fulfilled in and by the Lord Yahshua Christ...as He has instituted the New Covenant in His blood. Those in Christ whose lives are already eternal in their nature and in their pursuit...do so via their spirit. It is this order of “Royal Priests – Yahshua and His Spirit breathed Sons of God” who administer the elements of the New Covenant...this includes the entirety of the eschaton...of which in part they will be ordering forth God’s judgment. In order to partake of the New Covenant Truths, promises and prophecies...one must be a Spirit son of God. A spiritual nation of eternal Kings and Priests...eternity can only be inhabited by Spirit...the Holy Spirit of the living God to be precise. A place where there are no “free and slave...male or female...Jew or gentile” this place is here...now...today. All the “Sons of God” are like their Father who is Spirit...if you are a son of God it is by His Spirit that you are His offspring...so you are Spirit. Some of us are yet in these fleshly bodies...however I should think that most of us are already with Him...by Spirit. Outside of the “remnant” of “Spirit Sons to God” from Israel...as it is with any and all other nations...there will be no earthly nations or flesh and blood people in the “Royal Priesthood” Sister. This simply cannot happen...Scripture makes the point emphatically...those who believe and try...will fail. It will take that for many to see the error in false doctrines...if they have been born again. Tatwo...:)

Scripturally...and working from my last post to you Marilyn...in terms of the “Kingdom of God”...that eternal spiritual realm of the Living God...is here now. For the “sons of God” who have “entered into the Kingdom of God”...are already in heaven...by the Spirit. There are a number of passages that support this truth...I’ll include only one of them. “But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ [Spirit] (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.” Ephesians 2:4-7 NASB This is an “invisible Spirit reality”...its known as being “in Christ”...this does not include flesh and blood. Hence...in that way He [Holy Spirit] has already “raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus”...in other words we are on the throne of God in Christ. Seems like a straight forward concept...as I have encountered...either one believes it or they do not...that depends upon their faith...and perhaps humility...but there can be no mixture of the two realities. So based upon what Paul said...the Spirit Sons of God are “already in glory” with the Lord...while I can agree that the ages will change...I am not waiting for some future event to “get into heaven or to glory” spiritually...because I am already here in Christ...great is the mystery of godliness Sister? Not only that...but I know what it is that I am to be doing in this life “specifically”...as I am God’s workmanship...created in Christ Yahshua for good works which my Father planned for me to walk in before He put creation in place. This is actually what I am being reconciled to in this life today! I am...as any maturing son of God is...learning how to live out of an eternal life here and now in this present creation...that I might be fully prepared for the utter end of this age...and to rule in the age to come. To miss this may not cost one their salvation...however it will make things much more complicated than they need to be moving forward in time. Tatwo...:)

So if I understand your question...you are asking this in the light of your list...”The Nations, Israel, The Body of Christ”...and where each group is appointed to rule in eternity...this is what I am working from. Now based upon your question...it appears to me that you believe...“each group [has] been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity”...so it does appear that you are separating their existence by these three designations and this...in eternity. At a glance...you and I may have a different understanding of eternity...and Spirit life. That means...that it is likely that we are not in the same “mindset” concerning “Spirit life in Christ” as well. I am thankful to discuss this matter with you @Marilyn C...in as much as you so desire. And I am honored that you would ask me this question...so thank you. Today is fresh...your question is “Worthy”...you are “Worthy” my Sister...here is how I will respond. My answer to the question you asked of me and in your “OP” in this forum... “where has each group been appointed to rule in Gods great kingdom in eternity?” is this. The “Jews and the nations” have no place in the eternal spiritual Kingdom of God as you have listed. The Body of Christ...which includes its glorious Head is a completely different reality and person...a Spirit. The designation of “Jew and gentile” is a direct reference to a “flesh and blood” humanity which cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. The Son of God known as Christ is not flesh and blood...He is Spirit. If a Jew becomes a son of God...”Spirit” he is in the Kingdom of God...the same goes for the “nations” or the “Greek” or the “gentile” or the “heathen” and all the others Paul has listed. My explanation is below...if you or any others care to read it...do not be surprised if you hear some Truth you may have never heard or perhaps simply have not pieced together yet? And I am open for discussion in the matter. Christ...the many membered “Spirit Man” [Christ – Head and Body as one eternal Spirit being] is the basis and the purpose of creation...I think I made my point patently in my earlier post. You may not agree with my interpretation...fine. Christ then...being eternal...existed prior to creations [heaven and earth] actual existence...scripture supports this well. If “Christ” existed prior to our God and Father installing this creation within Himself...which He did...then the “pre-creation Christ” had to have been “Spirit and eternal” in nature...like God....not flesh and blood...and of course...He is. Perhaps you are following me here...you may disagree...but at least follow me as I chase this out some? The term “nations – ethnos” is generally describing heathens and gentiles...people, humans, flesh and blood beings. The term “Israel – Israél” is used in the New Testament to refer to the people of Israel, the nation of Israel, and sometimes symbolically to denote the spiritual descendants of Jacob....again we see clear reference to...people, humans, flesh and blood beings. The term “Body of Christ” – as I have posted above...is not “flesh and blood” He is “Spirit.” On the earth He...the Holy Spirit of Christ...indwells people, humans...“flesh and blood” beings. He however...is not flesh and blood...He is not human...He is the eternal Spirit...which is a completely independent life...from the biological flesh and blood existence of the human body. The life of the Spirit is an endowment out of the person of God Himself who is “Spirit.” For example...think Yahshua post baptism...where the Spirit of God descended and remained upon Him...which was a sign to John the Baptist...designating the One who is the “Lamb of God” and “would baptize in the Holy Spirit.” In this event...the Holy Spirit revealed Himself as “real, alive and living” in the Lord Yahshua Christ...the son of man [flesh]...making Him The Son of God [Spirit]...while walking the earth in His flesh and blood. Paul told us that...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” Christ Yahshua is...since at least His ascension to glory...Spirit...and the Sons of God have...His Spirit which is Him...indwelling us...and His Spirit is eternal...no beginning no end...all flesh will parish. That’s why the Lord told Nicodemus...“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” Yahshua is openly telling Nicodemus a Pharisee and a leader of the Jews...there is a “significant” difference between “flesh and Spirit”...the number one issue is...the flesh will die...and the Spirit can never die. If you are “not” born again...you remain in “your flesh” and you do not have the “eternal life of Christ” in you...the Holy Spirit. Yahshua makes it emphatically clear...“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” He is saying that...you must have the “Holy Spirit” dwelling within your members...in your “human spirit” in order to be “in Christ” and to enter into the spiritual Kingdom of God...having existed prior to creations actual existence...this Spirit...is not flesh and blood. “Flesh and blood cannot inherit the eternal Kingdom of God” because...they are not “Spirit”...only Spirit can inherit the spiritual Kingdom of God. Paul wrote in Galatians 3 “For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. [Holy Spirit] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; [all 6 designations are in reference to flesh and blood] for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” There is no flesh and blood in Christ...one is in Christ as a Spirit and an eternal Spirit at that. To apply your question to me Marilyn...I am led at this point to tell you this...working from Paul who said...neither...“Jew nor Greek”...in other words there is neither...“Israel nor nations”...in Christ...it is a one to one correlation. “Israel and nations” are the designations of the “flesh and blood” of humans...flesh and blood humans are not in the Kingdom of God. Only those who have the Holy Spirit are in the Kingdom of God because this is a “Spirit Kingdom” and you must have God’s “Spirit”...in your “spirit” to be assembled into it. In Romans 10 Paul tells the family of God...“For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; [Once again Israel & Nations] for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him.” Those “in Christ” are no longer seen by Yahshua and Paul as “Jews and gentiles”...the Lord is a Spirit...this is reference to “the spirits of the righteous made perfect” which Paul acknowledges as the “general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven” from Hebrews 12. Only Spirits can be in heaven...right...and by virtue of being in Christ...we are already there? It is a spiritual reality...not a physical reality...I think people forget that. Do not forget the earlier reference I listed for you...“from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; [because in Christ we are recognized as a Spirit] even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, [when He was alive on the earth] yet now we know Him in this way no longer.” [Since His ascension and glorification] we now recognize Him as the eternal Holy Spirit. Those who are in Christ are so...as a Spirit...we are a totally new being...and “the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him-- a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, [the “nations and Israel”] circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all.” Here in Colossians 3 Paul lists 8 designations applied to the “flesh and blood” of all humanity and states that whosoever is in Christ is no longer set apart by the distinctions of flesh and blood designations...though while in their flesh and blood existence “other humans” may recognize them by these designations. I will leave you with this from Ephesians 2...“For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups [Jews - Israel and gentiles - nations] into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, [there is now “no distinction” between the two] by abolishing in His flesh [The sacrifice of His flesh] the enmity, [the disparity and angst] which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, [The law of Moses as given to Israel] so that in Himself [this is what it means to be “in Christ”] He might make the two into one new man, [a “Spirit Man” named Christ] thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body [the “Spirit” Body of Christ] to God [who is a Spirit] through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.” In Christ...there is no difference between the Jew and the gentile...Israel and the nations because the Body of Christy has become “One New [Spirit] Man”...known as Christ...the Son of the living God. Tatwo...:)

I think He would have been pleased with that! The plan of God however...was set and in place prior to anything in creation coming forth. The pre-creation covenant the Father made with His Son always had things going the way they did/are...we all know that. Besides Israel rejected God's offer to come into the eternal Royal Priesthood..."Melchisedek" who existed well prior to Israel...so it had to be the human based priesthood of the Levites...and them not going the way God would have preferred it to go for them...ever. None the less...God’s eternal and ultimate purpose was to bring forth those “He predestined as His sons...which have been conformed to Christ.” We have become His poetry, a “re-created” people...if you will...that will fulfill the destiny He has given each of us, for we are joined to Yahshua, the Anointed Eternal One. Even before we were born, God planned in advance “our destiny” and the good works we would do to “live it out” in obedience to Him! So in the “big picture” you know a thing we call “eternity”...no beginning no end...it was always about the bringing forth of the fully matured and spiritual “Royal Priesthood” comprised of the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Yahshua, the mediator of a New Covenant. It was is going to be about the “invisible Spirit Man known as Christ” and it was/is never going to be about whether one is free or slave...male or female...Jew or Greek...these are designations that pertain only to the humanness of creation. As eternal beings we are no longer relegated to or identified by the Lord Yahshua...as mere human naming conventions. We are One New Spirit Man...One in Christ...One in God...eternal in our existence. Tatwo...:)

Greetings @Marilyn C and all... I can and would love too...I was beginning to think that no one would ask. "God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them." Gen 1:27 NASB This is "God's original intent" and the "entire purpose" for an "abundant creation" being put in place to begin with...to support this "Man." God is an invisible Spirit...He wants to reveal Himself and His love to His creation as Father...but He is "so big" that there is no vantage point where one could go and say..."over there...yeh it's God I can see God"...no...creation exists within Him and comes forth from Him. He desires to "dwell" among His creation as Himself...an eternal Spirit...so He made a "man of flesh"...Adam the first human and son of God. Adam failed...God knew this was going to happen which is why the "first Adam" was not the "man in the image and likeness of God." Adam did however accomplish the bringing forth the family of humans in a fleshly body...in which God the Father placed a spirit of life...an impartation of Himself...and a soul. All of carnal humanity springs forth from Adam and Eve...that's how the entirety of humanity was set in motion and why. This includes all the nations, Israel and Body of Christ...God simply wants to dwell among His creation...specifically and only in people who are in His image...God has always wanted to be experienced by mankind. We know that the Lord Yahshua Christ was in view prior to creation being established...many scriptures reveal this...so Yahshua...the “second Adam” was always God the Fathers perfect intention and the fulfillment of God’s original "pre-creation" intention...“the man created in His image and likeness.” He...the Lord Yahshua comes forth then...as the "perfect Son of God”...He is “the man in the image and likeness of God...Himself"...Yahshua came forth to show us His Father...whose eternal “Spirit” was now on the earth in a human being...Him. Whoever qualifies as a son of God in this creation...is in Christ...and is becoming “the man in the image and likeness of Christ”...who is God. When He is fully matured...according to the Holy Spirits judgment, which time has been set prophetically...He will begin to be revealed upon the earth...as the “Son of God.” His nature is an invisible Spirit...housed in human bodies...exactly like our Lord Yahshua Christ...for exactly the same purpose...to reconcile man to God and to destroy the works of the devil...and this will be right here on this present earth...unto the revealing of creations King and High Priest. The “Spirit to spirit” interaction that humanity can have with the eternal God...is what connects the “spirit mind of man” to the “Spirit mind of God”...where they “commune as an eternal One.” The man was given a soul so that he would be able to interact or connect with the physical world around him. So this “man in the image and likeness of God” is capable of interacting with the Spirit of the eternal living God in Christ...while also and simultaneously being able to interact with the physical world and its people around him...by the five senses of the soul. This “Mans” body is how the “man” exists in the world...visible and experiential to the world...all the while by his spirit...being able to exist “in” the Spirit of the eternal invisible person of Christ. This man is both divine and eternal because He is Spirit...no free man, no slave...no male, no female...no Jew, no gentile. He is an entirely new creation and is not known after the human designations...even though humans are. This then is how the mighty God interacts, loves and is loved and worshipped in His creation. This “Man” and “this man only” the “Son of God...Christ...Head and Body”...becomes “the Son who is the dazzling radiance of God’s splendor, the exact expression of God’s true nature—His mirror image!” In other words...”the Man in the image and likeness of God”...for which creation was abundantly "sown and purposed"...to bring forth...so that God the Father would have many Spirit sons in His only begotten Son the Lord Yahshua Christ...by His Spirit. It is these that He will “harvest from creation” and take into eternity to rule and reign as Christ the Son of the living God! This Marilyn...covers the “purpose of God making the...nations, Israel, the Body of Christ.” I would be remiss if I did not include here that the mature members of Christ...are so...because they are living out the exact purpose in the Body of Christ that the Father “predestined...before creation” and desires them to live...and they know it. They have been reconciled to their “eternal purpose in Christ”...it is these who will reveal the supremacy of Christ to His enemies...so...we are nearly prepared for and end of the age show down with darkness...and the judgment has already been awarded to the “Man in the image and likeness of God”...known as the Son of the living God and Father of creation...Christ. Tatwo...:)

Brother...I am not familiar with "your style" but I am learning. This post made me LoL...please don't be offended...I wish I could have put it so neat and succinctly...with a touch of humor...unless I missed you then forgive me. Tatwo...:)