Mr. M

This is what I am making reference to in scripture. Hebrews 12: 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church (ekklesia) of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect.

Depending on how it is translated. You proposed that Congregation was more appropriate than Church. We are all members of the body of Christ, regardless of whether are not we are assembling or congregating. Paul gave instructions to the ekklesia at Corinth of actions to take when they are gathered together (synago). When they are not together, they remain members of the ekklesia. Using Congregation or Assembly can be misconstrued as believers when they are congregating or assembling, as this is an acceptable way to use ekklesia. Acts 19: 39 But if you have any other inquiry to make, it shall be determined in the lawful assembly (ekklesia). 40 For we are in danger of being called in question for today’s uproar, there being no reason which we may give to account for this disorderly gathering.” 41 And when he had said these things, he dismissed the assembly.

What the world may think aside, this seems to be an acknowledgement of what we rely upon as members of one body. Proverbs 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.

I think we are in agreement. I am not at issue with defining ekklesia as the called out ones, nor do I have an issue with the way it is translated in different Bibles. In the KJV, is almost always translated church. https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g1577/kjv/tr/0-1/ What we seem to be proving is that translating assembly or congregation can cause confusion. Paul instructs the ekklesia (church) at Corinth what they must do when they are gathered together (synago). Being gathered together, at least in English, can also be expressed as assembled, or congregating. Using the noun Church avoids that issue, and would seem to answer the question posed by @Vine Abider

No, I was using congregation in place of church, which was being debated on another thread as inaccurate. I have no problem with church, I only stated that I prefer congregation since it is used in the OT for Israel. Thus the issue wasn't one of definition, but translation. ekklesia may be defined as called out ones, but it is never translated that way. I have also heard the expression "the church in the wilderness" used by some for Israel, when they were wandering. I have noticed that different Jewish synagogues identify as Congregation combined with a name of distinction, implying that they are all a part of the Congregation of Israel. My point was that the called out ones can assemble, or gather together in the Spirit, as the church of God is global. Now I have a headache! I do appreciate your comments though, thanks. I am going to stick with the assertion that even when the ekklesia are not gathered together (synago), they are still members of the church, congregation, assembly, or synagogue, as all these terms are used. I was a member of a church that called itself Victory Assembly, then changed the name to Victory Fellowship. I was still a part of that church, even when we weren't gathered together in fellowship! Am I giving you a headache now?

Paul is giving specific instructions to the ekklesia at Corinth of actions to take when they are gathered together (synago). When they are not together, they are still members of that congregation. No occlusion has occurred.

I prefer the word congregation for ekklesia. The problem that I see, is that for a congregation or assembly to exist, they must be able to congregate, or assemble. Not trying to be cute, my point is that the body of Christ exists around the globe and consists of a multitude of assemblies or congregations. That being the case, it has never bothered me to refer to the body of Christ as His Church. It has become cliche to say "the church is not a building, it's the people". Yes, and a large gathering at that, and can only be an Assembly in the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 5: 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together (synago), along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. If false Jewish brethren are referred to as the "synagogue of Satan" by the Lord, then truly we are the holy synagogue of the Spirit. Revelation 2:9 I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue (synagoge) of Satan. Even as Paul wrote to the Romans: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

I prefer the word congregation for ekklesia. The problem that I see, having considered your point, is that for a congregation or assembly to exist, they must be able to congregate, or assemble. Not trying to be cute, my point is that the body of Christ exists around the globe and consists of a multitude of assemblies or congregations. That being the case, it has never bothered me to refer to the body of Christ as His Church. It has become cliche to say "the church is not a building, it's the people". Yes, and a large gathering at that, and can only be an Assembly in the Spirit. 1 Corinthians 5: 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together (synago), along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, 5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. If false Jewish brethren are referred to as the "synagogue of Satan" by the Lord, then truly we are the holy synagogue of the Spirit. Revelation 2:9 I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue (synagoge) of Satan. Even as Paul wrote to the Romans: 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The body begins the process of redemption at our conversion. Romans 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. This is not the same as sanctification, but an integral part of the process. 1 Corinthians 1:30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God—and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. Our bodies are being re-purposed to serve the Lord. 2 Timothy 2: 20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Titus 2:14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works. Clearly a process that goes hand in hand with sanctification of the Spirit. Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Specifically, the sin nature, or the desires of the flesh are being put to death, as the Spirit gives life to that same mortal body.

The other sci-fi angle would be to claim to be from the future, coming to save us from ourselves, claiming to know the end from the present. Can't seem to get enough of that in books, movies, and TV either.

The boundaries of Israel are not particularly relevant, as the Millennial reign of Christ is more than a kingdom, it is a dominion. Even as Solomon extended his authority beyond the national boundaries of Israel, thus securing the borders of the land. 1 Kings 4: 24 For he had dominion over all the region on this side of the River from Tiphsah even to Gaza, namely over all the kings on this side of the River; and he had peace on every side all around him. 25 And Judah and Israel dwelt safely, each man under his vine and his fig tree, from Dan as far as Beersheba, all the days of Solomon. 1 Kings 9:19 all the storage cities that Solomon had, cities for his chariots and cities for his cavalry, and whatever Solomon desired to build in Jerusalem, in Lebanon, and in all the land of his dominion. King Solomon saw His day, and rejoiced in it. Psalm 72: 7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endures. 8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth. 9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust. 10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts. 11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him. All the Israel of God will reign over every nation. To make known His power and glory Psalm 145: 10 All thy works shall praise thee, O Lord; and thy saints shall bless thee. 11 They shall speak of the glory of thy kingdom, and talk of thy power; 12 To make known to the sons of men his mighty acts, and the glorious majesty of his kingdom. 13 Thy kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and thy dominion endures throughout all generations. Psalm 103:22 Bless the Lord, all His works, In all places of His dominion. Bless the Lord, O my soul!

To prove to the nations that God's Law is the only path to global peace and prosperity. Isaiah 2: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. 3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. 4 And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Mark 16:20 And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen. I have never heard of this conflict of opinion. On his missionary journeys, Paul spent 18 months in Corinth, and 2 years in Ephesus, while other stops were fairly brief. By introducing the truth of Christ Jesus to someone who is clearly a believer and worshiper of the God of Israel, the Holy Spirit accomplishes the task of sending an ambassador to a region where we now know live colonies of Jews who have lived there since pre-Rabbinic times. https://cnewa.org/magazine/origins-of-ethiopias-black-jews-30374/

Biblegateway.com has most of them, you can put one or more in parallel with the KJV, and/or your preferred English.

Mark 7: 20 And He said, What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornication, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man. One of many disturbing facts about the world is the taking of ideas from the Bible and applying them in a contemporary way that clouds the truth. The evil eye is not a stare or giving someone a dirty look. Consider this statement by the owner in the parable of the vineyard for insight. Matthew 20: 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good? Now, hear the words of the prophet Isaiah. Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! At a most basic and essential level, every believer must address the carnal tendency to see every fault in others, while making every excuse to downplay or own shortfalls. A fine example from the teachings of Paul to elaborate. Romans 14: 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. 10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. 11 For it is written: As I live, says the Lord, Every knee shall bow to Me, and every tongue shall confess to God. 12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way. This becomes a critical issue when we understand that an evil eye clouds our ability to perceive and follow the Spirit in every area of our Christian walk. Luke 11: 34 The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore, when your eye is good, your whole body also is full of light. But when your eye is evil, your body also is full of darkness. 35 Therefore take heed that the light which is in you is not darkness. 36 If then your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, the whole body will be full of light, as when the bright shining of a lamp gives you light. The “good eye” receives the light of Truth, and the Lord’s discipline Proverbs 6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life. This is central to receiving the “sure mercies of David”. Psalm 132:17 There will I make the horn of David to bud: I have ordained a lamp for mine anointed.

Revelation 3: 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’— and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. In their prosperity, this assembly of the saints were unable to know the shortcomings of their inner man. They did not know “what spirit they were of “. “I counsel you to buy gold from me, refined in the fire, so that you may be rich.” 1 Peter 1: 6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ. “and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed.” Revelation 19: 7 Let us be glad and rejoice and give Him glory, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready. 8 And to her it was granted to be arrayed in fine linen, clean and bright, for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints. “and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.” Matthew 6: 22 The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! 24 No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

2 Samuel 7:14 I will be his Father, and he shall be My son. If he commits iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men and with the stripes of the sons of men. 15 But My mercy shall not depart from him…. This covenant promise is the basis for the statement “sure mercies of David”. Isaiah 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David. It is also the basis for the instructions in Hebrews 12, that we must receive the Lord’s discipline as a child of God. The key is to ask, how do we receive that discipline and how does this govern our behavior? This is clearly illustrated in the narrative pertaining to Shimei. 2 Samuel 16:9 Then Abishai the son of Zeruiah said to the king, Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Please, let me go over and take off his head! 10 But the king said, What do I have to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah? So let him curse, because the Lord has said to him, Curse David. Who then shall say, Why have you done so? 11 And David said to Abishai and all his servants, See how my son who came from my own body seeks my life. How much more now may this Benjamite? Let him alone, and let him curse; for so the Lord has ordered him. 12 It may be that the Lord will look on my affliction, and that the Lord will repay me with good for his cursing this day. We are instructed to not take offense and be slow to anger in response to how we are treated by others. When someone insults, criticizes or falsely accuses, the natural human tendency is to react, which typically leads to the need to justify ourselves against their words. About 25 years ago, the Holy Spirit spoke to me when studying 2 Samuel 16, about receiving words from others “as from the Lord”, as a means of correction. The words of others are often inflammatory and exaggerated, appearing to be a false claim, and yet within those words is a nugget of truth that connects to a shortcoming in our godly character. This allows for change and growth in Christ, and the practice of humility. Now here is the stumbling block that I have found to be common among all people, in that they are willing to receive correction from someone they hold in high regard, but quickly dismiss the words of their ‘Shimei’. This is not how the Lord works. He does not accommodate our preferences! I have come to call this the ‘Shimei principle’, and has saved me tremendous time and energy we often waste on fretting, anger and offense. We must seek for what the Lord is saying at every turn, and I have never known the Lord to miss an opportunity to humble me with the words of someone I found to be “beneath me”. Aha! This is the rod and stripes of men that makes us godly, and makes our calling and election sure.

The Fathers Jabal and Jubal Genesis 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle. 21 And his brother's name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handling the string and pipe. Handling the kinnor and ugab; words used later for the musical instruments invented by David. Jabal-’a water course’-the Father of those who dwell in tents with herds of cattle. Jabal is not simply the Father of herdsmen, but of those who lived in a migratory manner with their herds and cattle, which would follow patterns established by the water course. Jubal-’a water spring’, the Father of those who located underground water and dug wells. He was using string and pipe to locate underground springs by dowsing. Jubal is the Father of all such as settled, and non-migratory.

The servants of Abraham and Isaac dug wells. Genesis 26: 15 Now the Philistines had stopped up all the wells which his father’s servants had dug in the days of Abraham his father, and they had filled them with earth. 17 Then Isaac departed from there and pitched his tent in the Valley of Gerar, and dwelt there. 18 And Isaac dug again the wells of water which they had dug in the days of Abraham his father, for the Philistines had stopped them up after the death of Abraham. He called them by the names which his father had called them. 19 Also Isaac’s servants dug in the valley, and found a well of running water there. 2 0 But the herdsmen of Gerar quarreled with Isaac’s herdsmen, saying, “The water is ours.” So he called the name of the well Esek, because they quarreled with him. 21 Then they dug another well, and they quarreled over that one also. So he called its name Sitnah. 22 And he moved from there and dug another well, and they did not quarrel over it. So he called its name Rehoboth, because he said, “For now the Lord has made room for us, and we shall be fruitful in the land.” 23 Then he went up from there to Beersheba. 24 And the Lord appeared to him the same night and said, “I am the God of your father Abraham; do not fear, for I am with you. I will bless you and multiply your descendants for My servant Abraham’s sake.” 25 So he built an altar there and called on the name of the Lord, and he pitched his tent there; and there Isaac’s servants dug a well.

David's words reflect the experience of someone who was said to walk with a heart after God, and often spoke reflectively of the importance of the fear of God for righteousness sake. It is a part of the daily walk of the believer. Psalm 106:3 Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that does righteousness at all times. Not a reference to end time judgment, or eschatology. It is rooted in the knowledge of God's mishpat, chronicled in the scriptures, and revealing his heart toward the frowardness of men.

[David] Psalm 119:120 My flesh trembles for fear of You, And I am afraid of Your judgments. It is time to take this admonition more seriously. [Paul] Philippians 2: 12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Will we allow God to work into us what He Wills, and do what is well pleasing in His sight? Our doctrine cannot be our own. John 7:17 If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or I speak on My own. Isaiah 1: 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be as wool. 19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword:for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.

Psalm 119: 90 Your faithfulness endures to all generations; You established the earth, and it abides. 91 They continue this day according to Your ordinances, For all are Your servants. The earth and all that pertains unto it continues according to the ordinances of God. Everything exists and will continue to abide at His pleasure. Regardless of what you hear about how the earth will be destroyed and life as we know it will end, the earth will abide until the Lord decides otherwise, for the earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof. Revelation 11:18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth.

2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. 1 Peter 1: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Both sin and the uncleanness from death that defiles the holy things were dealt with on the cross, and will consummate the age. Zechariah 13:1 In that day a fountain shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for sin and for uncleanness. We all have contact with dead things, which defiles what must be kept holy. Numbers 19: 11 He who touches the dead body of anyone shall be unclean for seven days. 12 He shall purify himself with the water on the third day and on the seventh day; then he will be clean. But if he does not purify himself on the third day and on the seventh day, he will not be clean. 13 Whoever touches the body of anyone who has died, and does not purify himself, defiles the tabernacle of the Lord. That person shall be cut off from Israel. He shall be unclean, because the water of purification was not sprinkled on him; his uncleanness is still on him. 19 The clean person shall sprinkle the unclean on the third day and on the seventh day; and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, wash his clothes, and bathe in water; and in the evening he shall be clean. Sin And Death Defiled The Holy Land and The Offerings of the people Ezekiel 36:17 Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their own ways and deeds; to Me their way was like the uncleanness of a woman in her customary impurity. Ezekiel 39:24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions I have dealt with them, and hidden My face from them. This is a reflection of the inner working of Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit. 2 Chronicles 29:16 And the priests went into the inner part of the house of the Lord, to cleanse it, and brought out all the uncleanness that they found in the temple of the Lord into the court of the house of the Lord. And the Levites took it, to carry it out abroad into the brook Kidron. Deuteronomy 21: 22 If a man has committed a sin deserving of death, and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his body shall not remain overnight on the tree, but you shall surely bury him that day, so that you do not defile the land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance; for he who is hanged is accursed of God. The apostolic doctrine reflects this knowledge; for sin and for uncleanness Romans 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is fully grown, brings forth death. 1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not unto death. 1 Thessalonians 4: 7 For God did not call us to uncleanness, but to holiness. 8 Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit. 2 Corinthians 7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Wine and the Foreshadowing Of The Comforter Psalms 104: 14 He causes the grass to grow for the cattle, And vegetation for the service of man, That he may bring forth food from the earth, 15 And wine that makes glad the heart of man, Oil to make his face shine, And bread which strengthens man’s heart. Wine That Makes Glad The Heart is prophesied in Noah. Genesis 5: 28 Lamech lived one hundred and eighty-two years, and had a son. 29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This one will comfort us concerning our work and the toil of our hands, because of the ground which the Lord has cursed. The sinful nature corrupts the produce of the earth, turning to perdition what was intended to be a blessing. Genesis 9: 20 And Noah began to be a farmer, and he planted a vineyard. 21 Then he drank of the wine and was drunk, and became uncovered in his tent. The weightier matter is to apply the lessons we receive from what we can see, to better understand what we cannot see. Ephesians 5: 15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, 16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil. 17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what is the will of the Lord. 18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit.