FreeGrace

Thanks.

Thanks. I appreciate the fact that the Bible has given enough information to be able to understand the order of things re: end times. Seems to me only the people who will experience the Tribulation will have all the context to understand the symbolism and figures of speech John used when describing it. Very interesting! Thanks. How do you define the # of the beast? The Bible defines it as the # of a man. Munch, munch, munch!

Seems clear enough in the words themselves. The best part of all this is that when the tribulation does begin to unfold, all the figures of speech and metaphors will be seen for who/what they are. Some people fret over the name of the beast (what the 666 means). Really doesn't matter now anyway. What should matter is the order of things. Which the Bible lays out nicely.

The two "it"s refer to the sea beast. How does one come to the conclusion that the sea and land beasts are fallen angels?

Just trying to keep things lite. I'll bet most people are in that boat! As to the metaphors, etc in Revelation, it was written for those who will be THERE when it all happens. So they will know what's going on. Why would anyone BEFORE the Tribulation need to know the future? We don't. So there's no need to bother with deciphering every thing in Revelation. Looking forward to eternity!!

You have every right to your disagreement. But can you prove I'm wrong? Actually, I showed (proved) what all the Bible said about when the "end" comes. It is AFTER full victory by the King. That future resurrection is the FIRST of 2. The first resurrection will be all believers, per 1 Cor 15:23 and the resurrection of the unsaved will be 1,000 years later.

Where else would Christ's kingdom be held? The Bible prophecies that Jesus is the King of the Jews. And that He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Where would that be, if not on earth? Do you have another place in mind? If not, then just accept what the Bible says. This is silly. So you demand the specific word "physical" to justify what the Bible prophesies? Nice try. We KNOW Jesus comes back to earth at the Second Advent. We know He comes back as KING. We KNOW He brings with Him all the saints who have already died and are in heaven with Him. (Rev 19). We KNOW there will be survivors of the tribulation, in mortal bodies, because ALL the saved people will have received their resurrection bodies "when He comes". 1 Cor 15:23. So of course the survivors will be mortal humans. What else could they be? And can you prove any of these assumptions? No. The chapter reads quite literal. The resurrection of martyrs shows this is the singular resurrection that 1 Cor 15:23 speaks of, and is at the second advent. And the text states specifically that resurrection is the FIRST RESURRECTION, which leaves one more; the resurrection of the unsaved. Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15 all say there will be a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved, and Rev 20:5 specifically says the resurrection of the saved is the first one. Then the Millennial Reign of Christ, where He "rules the nations with a rod of iron". Rev 2:27 - and he shall rule them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of the potter are broken to shivers; as I also have received of my Father: Anyone who reads this verse and denies a literal kingdom over literal people has a big problem. The spiritual realm cannot be seen by mortals, yet the Bible says King Jesus will rule over the nations with a rod of iron. Why mention a rod of iron if His kingdom is only spiritual and involves only saved people? Do they need to be ruled by this "rod of iron"? That sure sounds like the King will be ruling over unruly people, who need that rod of iron. This verse notes the FIRST RESURRECTION, which will be all believers, per 1 Cor 15:23. This verse specifically says the resurrection of the saved is the FIRST one, so obviously there will be another one, the resurrection of the unsaved, noted in Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15. The first resurrection is obviously for believers only (blessed and holy). And they shall reign with Christ for 1,000 years. Paul wrote this: 2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us; What does this mean, if not literal?

Exactly! Metaphors and figures of speech are OBVIOUS to anyone who is serious and objective. It's when, just because there are a few things that are obvious metaphors, they go overboard and claim everything in the sentence, paragraph and context is the same. Thanks for another dose of your great wisdom!

I'm glad that you like what I wrote. Of course. God took John to heaven to SEE future things. Why wouldn't he? Who said there was a "physical hole"? And who cares? The point is clear; satan was RESTRICTED from deceiving the population of the earth for 1,000 years. Satan has been called a dragon for a very long time. At one point, he indwelt a physical serpent. Do you know biblical history? Starts in Genesis So you think that just because you balk at a physical chain that binds satan and is symbolic, everything in the sentence is symbolic?? Why would anyone do that? That is very assumptive. Did I ever say "exactly 1,000 years to the minute?" What does Psa 50:10 have to do with Rev 20? Nothing at all. Grasping at straws. Oh, oops. That would be a metaphor for desperation. My bad. Here's the problem with your kind of thinking. By claiming everything is symbolic, figurative, etc, you can say anything about everything. And there's no one who can refute any of it. Except the one who wrote it. And he died 2,000 LITERAL years ago. So let's just accept what reads very literally, ok? Sure, the chain, the lock and seal over the Abyss are OBVIOUSLY not literal. But just because they aren't, doesn't mean everything in the chapter is not literal. Why do you have a problem with a literal 1,000 years anyway? Are the "nations ruled with an iron scepter" also figurative? When one goes down that rabbit hole, everything gets cloudy and it means whatever anyone wants it to mean, even when they cannot prove what they claim. As is your case. Prove that 1,000 years isn't literal in ch 20. Then, after proving that it isn't, then explain what the 1,000 years "really means". Thanks. Here's a clue; metaphors, figures of speech are OBVIOUS.

Many claim there will be a 1,000 year reign of King Jesus because Rev 20 is quite clear that there will be. I can't imagine what figure of speech or metaphor is being placed on that time frame which is mentioned only 6 times in that chapter. v.24 is the key. The "end comes" WHEN He shall have delivered up the kingdom to God WHEN He shall have plut down all rule and all authority and power". It's real clear. The "end" doesn't come when He returns to earth. Only AFTER Jesus delivers up the kingdom WHEN He had plut downh all rule and all authority and power" does the "end" come. iow, Jesus returns to earth at the 2nd Advent, the resurrection of all believers occurs, He rules the earth with an "iron scepter" for 1,000 years, and THEN, WHEN the nations surround Jerusalem to attack does God fry the whole earth and all the living mortals on it. THEN the unsaved will be resurrected back into their mortal bodies and attend the GWT judgment, and then cast into the LOF. The reading of Rev 20 is simple and straightforward. No need for metaphors or figures of speech, all of which simply allows people to make up whatever they think things mean to themselves. What is clear in Dan 12:2, John 5:29 and Acts 24:15 is that there will be a resurrection of the saved and a resurrection of the unsaved. And Rev 20 clears up any confusion about WHEN each one will occur: resurrection of the saved occurs "when He comes back from heaven" (1 Cor 15:23) and the resurrection of the unsaved occurs AFTER the battle of Gog and Magog at the end of the Millennial Reign of Christ.

Yes, there are some metaphorical and figurative language in Revelation, but there is none in Rev 20. We have the 2nd Advent, Millennial reign, Satan's release to deceive the world once again, and the battle of Gog and Magog where fire from heaven comes down to earth and fries ALL the inhabitants of the earth, because there are no saved mortals at that point. Then the GWT judgment, which is for the resurrected mortals, where they are judged on the basis of their works, which will determine just how bearable or tolerable it will be for them in the LOF. Matt 10:15, 11:22, 24. Paul said in 2 Tim 2:12 that believers who endure will "reign with Christ", which is a reward for faithful service. Those believers who don't endure will be denied (ruling with Christ). They will still be in the kingdom, but in a service, rather than ruling role. I see nothing figurative or metaphorical in Rev 20.

That's what I am looking for. How do you "handle" the chapter?

Just a few corrections to this OP: This is just an opinion, without evidence. Rev 13:5 tells us that the sea beast was given the authority to rule for 42 months. There is no way this sea beast has been around for a long time. Even though you states: "So 666 has been around for a long time, since the first kingdom, the first head. " So all 7 kingdoms are going to exercise their authority for 42 months?? Is that at the same time, or in succession, or what? This doesn't make sense with your words above, claiming that 666 is 7 kingdoms. Now 666 simply "stands for putting one's own well-being above the truth". Please make up your mind. Please read the book of Job. He was an extremely wealthy man who had the opportunity to prove to the devil wrong. And then God blessed him with FAR MORE wealth after than he had before. The Bible says: In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. This verse refutes your claim. Seems you don't understand what the "eye of the needle" referred to in the ancient world. From: https://www.gotquestions.org/camel-eye-needle.html "Jesus’ message is clear—it is impossible for anyone to be saved on his own merits. Since wealth was seen as proof of God’s approval, it was commonly taught by the rabbis that rich people were blessed by God and were, therefore, the most likely candidates for heaven. Jesus destroyed that notion, and along with it, the idea that anyone can earn eternal life. The disciples had the appropriate response to this startling statement. They were utterly amazed and asked, “Who then can be saved?” in the next verse. If the wealthy among them, which included the super-spiritual Pharisees and scribes, were unworthy of heaven, what hope was there for a poor man?" The verses say that Satan had the authority to give all the authority and splendor of all the kingdoms of the world. Not that he "owns the world". He has been trying to take control of the whole world since Adam. 1 John 5:19 says - King James Bible And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. New King James Version We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one. Christian Standard Bible We know that we are of God, and the whole world is under the sway of the evil one. Holman Christian Standard Bible We know that we are of God, and the whole world is under the sway of the evil one. Read Ecclesiastes, where Solomon returned to his senses. He was a believer. Even before his slide into carnality. Quite a leap, it seems. All these things have been used for spreading the gospel. Please don't think for a minute that satan would create anything to be used to spread the gospel. Yes, they have been corrupted by corrupted minds. No doubt about that. Please explain why John wrote this about Mr 666: Rev 19:20 - But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. I look forward to more wonderful explanations.

For those who believe the title of this thread is true, how do you ignore Rev 20?

The term 'born again' literally refers to the dead human spirit being "made alive" again at the point of saving faith. Eph 2:5 When Adam ate the forbidden fruit, the warning was "on the day you eat of it, you shall surely die". However, in the Hebrew, it is literally, "on the day you eat of it, DYING, you shall surely die". So, 2 mentions of death. The first one is a process (dying) which indicates that is when Adam began the process of physical death. He lasted 930 years, per Gen 5:5. But, ON THAT day, his human spirit died, and all of his progeny forward is born physically alive and spiritually dead. That is why everyone needs to be born again. It is the only place that makes sense for where the Holy Spirit dwells. And Jesus told the woman at the well (John 4:24) that proper worship of God requires the human spirit.