Kansasdad

I assusme not. The Westboro Baptist Church for one is an abomination. I would think that with the majority of them the differences are minor, but I have not been to them all, so I really dont know. If they were only minor, why do you suppose they felt the need to split off and form a whole new church.

No, not implications, facts. Mr. Bush has been born again; he accepts Christ as the only way to Heaven. This is a very simplified statement but, obviously, Catholicism has many facets that are not in keeping with the beliefs of most Protestants or with Scripture. If he does convert, it would be a shock to me but I believe there is substance behind the speculation. I personally can't imagine going from worshipping the one True God to worshipping statues and praying to Mary. Or to bowing before a mortal man. But, as the 1.5 billion Catholics in the world attest, there are many, many who believe this is the way to go. Here is an interesting view from the Washington Post: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...1103327_pf.html I believe that Christ is the way to heaven, I don't worship statues, I ask Mary to pray for me, and I show great respect for many mortal men, but do not worship any of them. This is what I am taught in the Catholic Church. If you think it is different then you have been deceived by strong propaganda. That is simply the truth. SO your implications are that Catholics are not Christian and that is based on lies and deception, not fact. But I also know you have bought into the deception hook line and sinker and cannot and have no desire to see. But I do find it interesting how something like this exposes the hypocrisies that lurk and I know it doesn't feel so good to have light shown on the hatred that is truly there.

I think it would be wonderful -- really great. I'm Catholic, of course. Nonetheless, I find it hard to believe, but I must admit, the source seems very credible. Wow. I never would have thunk it. Wonderful? Great? Not all catholics worship dead people and statues. I'm sure they don't; I'm just in shock on hearing this about President Bush. Why? If you're a Christian you already know why..... I am a Christian so you statment seams full of implications.

I think it would be wonderful -- really great. I'm Catholic, of course. Nonetheless, I find it hard to believe, but I must admit, the source seems very credible. Wow. I never would have thunk it. Wonderful? Great? Not all catholics worship dead people and statues. I'm sure they don't; I'm just in shock on hearing this about President Bush. Why?

Good for Him, All for the Glory of God. Way to Go President Bush! God Bless, Kansas Dad

He he he... He called me a Bible thumper You really don't know me very well do you. OK, now lets take a look at my post. Do you see even one verse of scripture, one quote from the bible. I gave you an honest prespective in layman's terms........How is that Bible thumping again...... I must have missed that lesson. God Bless, Kansas Dad

Zero, I think I understand your question, as to Why. From an atheist stand point because they do not believe in anything outside of physical experience, they understand motivations from that stand point. If some one believes something different and it doesn't negatively affect "me" then why should I care, leave them alone and life will be good. What you need to do, to understand, is put yourself in the mind frame of the Christian. In the Christian's deep core belief you are in a very grave situation. You are in grave danger and you don't even know it. This is not just words, truly we believe this with all our heart, mind, and soul. Life seems really good to you but we can see the horrific ending. We can also see a path that has the most wonderful of endings (actually beginnings). The example of the car and bridge is a good analogy. God calls us to love even our enemies, not something easy to do. In fact impossible with out his help. The reason you can not understand why, to our motivations, is because it is outside of your understanding of reality. From your prespective it makes no sense. In fact the Bible says Gods ways will seem as folly to the world. A good example is the Gay life style. Why should we care, its there business leave it alone. Again back to the car driver. If that was your children in the car, how hard would you try to stop them, would you just try one time and then leave it alone. To God your soul, ZerO's soul, is more precious than the lives of your children are to you. Now from that prespective, should we really just give up on you? God Bless, K.D.

I posted that question on a Catholic sight and I already received a good example. Lets say you confess to having an affair. And the Priest will inevitably instruct you that you must stop having the affair, yet you refuse. You can't stop because you "love" her yada yada yada. In this case even though you ask for forgiveness you are not truly repentant. Lets contrast that. Let say you have an addiction to drugs. You agree to get help to stop, you desire to stop but you tell the Priest of your fear that you will fail. That you are afraid you might give in even though you so desire to stop. And later you do in fact fail. The Priest would have (in my opinion) absolved the sin in the first confession, and one would receive much Grace from God so that you can break the addiction. Also, at no time are we ever going to fool God. God Bless, K.D. Okay thanks, and that makes total sense and is scriptural. If we ask God for forgiveness for a sin we are refusing to give up we are in a delusion to think that it is forgiven, such as an ongoing affair. Thanks. Another example given was, some one goes to confession and confesses that they are living with their girlfriend, not married. He comes in again and again with the same confession refusing to change the living situation. The Priest would tell the person that he must change his ways before the sin is absolved. Now once he actually changes his behavior, and is truly sorry for the sin, it most definitely can be forgiven. God Bless, K.D.

John 20: 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Jesus speaking to the Apostles. I just don't know how it could be stated any more clearly. Interestly enough Massorite, the Apostles were given many gifts and "abilities" after Jesus' death. Kansas Dad just pointed one out. John 20:21 is the example of one. However, things have to be considered at this point. 1. The apostles received the Holy Spirit before the day of Pentecost 2. There wasn't a gospel yet so it was up it them to spread the gospel. How could the Jews ask for forgiveness if they did not who Christ was or could do. The apostles were needed for this transition. 3. The aspostles had the gift of discernment to know who truly repents and who does not but this action was temporary. The aspostles had NO POWER to forgive for sins but were using the Holy Spirit to do such a task that is why Christ said "Receive ye Holy Ghost..." before the forgiveness of sins ability: Matthew 9:6 (King James Version) King James Version (KJV) 6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. It is the Holy Spirit's invlovement. Again, this is a unique case until the gospel was spread. Unfortunately there are religions out there that claim to have men that can forgive sins. That is plain dumb. Millions of followers actually believe this nonsense. Christ hand picked the apostles whereas these "religious men" are picked by schools or comittees (all sinners). 1 John 1:9If we confess our sins, he (Christ) is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Ok I figured this would come up. My post was in response to the claim that Jesus never gave this authority to any man or woman. That statement is blatantly false. Scripture is very clear on the subject. Now your claim is then, Ok, but it was only for the Apostles and not for anyone else. This is a completely different claim, and one the verse I quoted does not address completely. Some say that any power given to the apostles died with them. Not so. The powers necessary to maintain the Church as a living, spiritual society had to be passed down from generation to generation. If they ceased, the Church would cease, except as a quaint abstraction. Christ ordered the apostles to, "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations." It would take much time. And he promised them assistance: "Lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age" (Matt. 28:19

John 20: 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Jesus speaking to the Apostles. I just don't know how it could be stated any more clearly.

I posted that question on a Catholic sight and I already received a good example. Lets say you confess to having an affair. And the Priest will inevitably instruct you that you must stop having the affair, yet you refuse. You can't stop because you "love" her yada yada yada. In this case even though you ask for forgiveness you are not truly repentant. Lets contrast that. Let say you have an addiction to drugs. You agree to get help to stop, you desire to stop but you tell the Priest of your fear that you will fail. That you are afraid you might give in even though you so desire to stop. And later you do in fact fail. The Priest would have (in my opinion) absolved the sin in the first confession, and one would receive much Grace from God so that you can break the addicition. Also, at no time are we ever going to fool God. God Bless, K.D.

I have never asked a priest so I don't know what would preclude a priest to hold the sins bound. I do know that just having a "bagful of sins" would NOT be a reason. There is no sin that can not be forgiven. If you blaspheme the Holy Spirit you wouldn't be there. I also know that it is not about naming ALL your sins. If I get a chance I will ask. God Bless, K.D.

John 20: 21Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. Matthew 9: 6But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house. 7And he arose, and departed to his house. 8But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men. Luke 5:23Whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Rise up and walk? 24But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power upon earth to forgive sins, (he said unto the sick of the palsy,) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy couch, and go into thine house. James 5: 14Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: 15And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him. 16Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. 2 Cor. 5: 18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; Matthew 18: 18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 2 Cor. 2: 10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ; God Bless, K.D.

Define care. As a human being, I naturally feel empathetic to other living creatures, especially other humans. This hypothetical person's situation saddens me and if I was able and knew what to do about it, I'd want to help them, so I guess I care about the person in this way. But it's not the same as the way I care about my friends and family. I like this conversation, it's making me think deeply about my morals. Ok lets define this guy a little. He is a drug dealer. He has caused missery and death for thousands of people. In fact he has directly been involved in murder, rape, and torture. He has lots of money, lives in a fancy home, and drives very nice cars. Can you care about him. His life is empty. He is actually very alone and misserable. His life has no real meaning. He is full of hate and rage. If you can answer yes at any level, I would sugest it is not, as you say, based on what makes you happy. There is something else at play here. Something bigger than oneself. God Bless, K.D. I don't agree with your assessment. If he can answer yes at any level, it is because of altruism, which physiologically makes people happy. Also we only do things for other people because of the influx of good chemicals in our brain when we do them. We're like pavlov's dog, but with neurochemistry instead of kibble. If it is about altruism then put a bullet in his head and think of the thousands of people you have helped. Think of the future victims of rape that will not have to suffer because of this one action. ...... Nope, something else going on here.

Define care. As a human being, I naturally feel empathetic to other living creatures, especially other humans. This hypothetical person's situation saddens me and if I was able and knew what to do about it, I'd want to help them, so I guess I care about the person in this way. But it's not the same as the way I care about my friends and family. I like this conversation, it's making me think deeply about my morals. Ok lets define this guy a little. He is a drug dealer. He has caused missery and death for thousands of people. In fact he has directly been involved in murder, rape, and torture. He has lots of money, lives in a fancy home, and drives very nice cars. Can you care about him. His life is empty. He is actually very alone and misserable. His life has no real meaning. He is full of hate and rage. If you can answer yes at any level, I would sugest it is not, as you say, based on what makes you happy. There is something else at play here. Something bigger than oneself. God Bless, K.D.

No, happiness comes from caring for them, not the other way around. There's a big difference. Could you ever care for someone if it didn't bring you happiness? That depends how much I care about them when they change and start to make me unhappy for whatever reason. If it was a family member, there isn't really anything they could do to make me stop caring about them. If it was a close friend I would probably live with it in the hope that they became their old self again. I don't know exactly, that's just a guess, but generally I don't care for people that I don't get along with. Could you care about a drug dealer in Somalia? Absolutely. And I think in order to be more Christlike we are obligated to do so. I agree, but under the concept given by Cache this would not be possible. In fact the very idea would seem as nonsense.

No, happiness comes from caring for them, not the other way around. There's a big difference. Could you ever care for someone if it didn't bring you happiness? That depends how much I care about them when they change and start to make me unhappy for whatever reason. If it was a family member, there isn't really anything they could do to make me stop caring about them. If it was a close friend I would probably live with it in the hope that they became their old self again. I don't know exactly, that's just a guess, but generally I don't care for people that I don't get along with. Could you care about a drug dealer in Somalia?

. Not exactly !!! Catholic escatology - the very traditional exegesis - sees this Pope as the 2nd to the last Pope!! Pope Benedict is a conservative / traditional ( i.e. not liberal ) Catholic. He is a highly learned man, and intellectually astute - and a close friend of the former Pope - both understand that the times are precipitous - Catholics DO believe in an 'END of Days' - they have a comprehensive understanding of Revelation - although it is NOT something they focuse on , that way man y evangelical communities do . Yet if you should got to any Mass, you will hear reference to Christ's return at EVERY Mass - including the CREED, which essentially says : I believe that Christ will return to this earth to judge the living and the dead . . . and His Kingdom will have no end. Catholic emphasis is more on living as a Christian RESPONSIBLY NOW. Pope Benedict used the UN forum as an opportunity to exhort the UN to execute their respective duties in a responsible way and promote humane rights and freedoms consistently and actively. That was a very good summation. His call was for the UN to actually do what it is supposed to do. He in fact was very politely pointing out how inept they have been. God Bless, K.D.

No, happiness comes from caring for them, not the other way around. There's a big difference. Could you ever care for someone if it didn't bring you happiness?

Well I find that if the people I care about are happy, it makes me happy, so it isn't really a selfish concept at all. If you lived for only your own happiness, you would loose all your friends and family very quickly, so you'd end up being lonely and unhappy anyway. Therefore, the only way to maintain your own happiness is to maintain the happiness of those around you as well. Still think it's selfish? Yes I still think it is very selfish. If your motivation for being concerned about someone is only measured as positive if you yourself gain pleasure from it, how fleeting is that. I have no problem with this being a "byproduct" the problem is when this is the goal. ie: the reason I care about you is because doing so makes me happy. What happens if it no longer makes you happy, do you stop caring about them? It is still all about you and other people are just means to your end. Some of the most evil atrocities are born from this very concept. God Bless, K.D.

You know we from Kansas often make Oklahoma the object of our jokes..........but they have been far ahead of us in this area. Hats of to OK God Bless, Kansas Dad

We atheists don't find the lack of inherent purpose in the universe and in our lives depressing because purpose is simply a means to and end. That end is happiness and fulfillment. When people ask what the meaning of life is, I don't think they are literally asking what is the purpose of life (though they probably think they are), they are actually asking what is required in life for happiness. This is a much simpler question and shouldn't be difficult for individuals to answer for themselves. Why is happiness and fulfillment the end? I would have thought that was self-evident. Happiness is what everyone desires, and this is mainly due to the fact that that's more or less how we define it. In other words, no matter what you find fun or satisfying, you define happiness as the feeling you get after that fun or satisfying event has occurred. So naturally happiness, by its very nature, is what everyone wants in the end. How very selfish this concept is. All of life is about "my" happiness, and everything is measured against that one premise. Have you ever given thought to where that concept has led? God Bless, K.D.

Psalm 23 1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. From a different Version: Psalm 22 1 A psalm for David. The Lord ruleth me: and I shall want nothing. 2 He hath set me in a place of pasture. He hath brought me up, on the water of refreshment: 3 He hath converted my soul. He hath led me on the paths of justice, for his own name's sake. 4 For though I should walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will fear no evils, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they have comforted me. 5 Thou hast prepared a table before me against them that afflict me. Thou hast anointed my head with oil; and my chalice which inebriateth me, how goodly is it! 6 And thy mercy will follow me all the days of my life. And that I may dwell in the house of the Lord unto length of days. 1 "Ruleth me"... In Hebrew, Is my shepherd, viz., to feed, guide, and govern me. Interesting yes? What translation is that from? I was hoping some one would figure it out. You know me well enough I bet you can find it

Psalm 23 1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. 2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. 3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. 4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. 5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever. From a different Version: Psalm 22 1 A psalm for David. The Lord ruleth me: and I shall want nothing. 2 He hath set me in a place of pasture. He hath brought me up, on the water of refreshment: 3 He hath converted my soul. He hath led me on the paths of justice, for his own name's sake. 4 For though I should walk in the midst of the shadow of death, I will fear no evils, for thou art with me. Thy rod and thy staff, they have comforted me. 5 Thou hast prepared a table before me against them that afflict me. Thou hast anointed my head with oil; and my chalice which inebriateth me, how goodly is it! 6 And thy mercy will follow me all the days of my life. And that I may dwell in the house of the Lord unto length of days. 1 "Ruleth me"... In Hebrew, Is my shepherd, viz., to feed, guide, and govern me. Interesting yes?

There is a thread called ask a Catholic. It was closed by the mods but you can still read through the post. I think it will answer many of your questions. LINK God Bless, K.D.