Kansasdad

Answer these question if you can kansasdad,as ovedya is the only one willing to attempt it so far. Unless you kansasdad are the one ignoring the truth,you should have some answers. Interesting as I am reading through Acts to see exactly which verse you are referring to and I run across the words of Peter: 12 But Peter seeing, made answer to the people: Ye men of Israel, why wonder you at this? or why look you upon us, as if by our strength or power we had made this man to walk? 13 The God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus, whom you indeed delivered up and denied before the face of Pilate, when he judged he should be released. 14 But you denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you. 15 But the author of life you killed, whom God hath raised from the dead, of which we are witnesses. God the father glorified his Son The Author of life you killed, Was the author of life around before Jesus was on earth....yes Yet he was killed. to hold on to your theory then God the father was killed.....hardly.. Then we see that God raised someone from the dead...Oh yes it was the Author of life, the Holy one. The same person that was killed. Interesting how scripture supports the trinity every time you look. God Bless, K.D.

Saying the Holy Spirit is God,doesn't change any thing.I have never denied that the Holy Spirit is God,The Holy Spirit is no less God than you spirit is you. Genesis 1:26 any time people create a complete doctrine around one solitary verse you know it must be flawed. This is just what I was talking about, you give an answer but you didn't answer his question. Just like you give me a response but it doesn't really address the scripture given. You just ignore it and re state your doctrine, just like you did above. I will get to your list later, but it looks like much doublespeak.

I notice Greg, that when he can't reconcile scripture with his doctrine, he just ignores scripture. He is great at pointing to some scripture, yet ignoring others. His picture is partial, incomplete. Satan often uses this tool. Satan gives one just enough truth to make them believe but not the whole truth, leading a person into his little world. This heresy started at the time of the Apostles, it was dealt with while John the Apostle was still alive. Satan fooled some then, and he is still fooling some now.

Hebrews:1, 6 And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith: And let all the angels of God adore him. 7 And to the angels indeed he saith: He that maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire. 8 But to the Son: Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of justice is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved justice, and hated iniquity: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. 10 And: Thou in the beginning, O Lord, didst found the earth: and the works of thy hands are the heavens. Here we see God is talking about Jesus the Human on earth who was in the beginning. Jesus was fully human, and fully God, adored by the Angles. Here God brings the first begotten into the world, his first begotten who founded the earth, his First begotten who's works are in heaven. His first begotten who was in the beginning.

No, the problem is that you fail to understand that Jesus was fully human, and fully God. In your realm Jesus is fully human with the Spirit of God living inside of him. The problem your little idea creates is now you just opened up the idea that we all can be Jesus. Fully Human with the Spirit of God dwelling inside. One heresy leads to another to another. The question is answered by Jesus himself. Jesus who is fully God speaks to God the Father as a distinct God head. The only way you can deny this is to claim that Jesus was not fully God.

Yep that all proves oneness,are you on my side? Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for daddy, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father. I have shown with no doubt that Jesus is God and yet Jesus calls God Abba. Why would God call himself Abba. Now what I have posted shows from scripture the Trinity. I have also posted the teachings from people who heard the words from the Apostles themselves and they confirm that the scriptures are teaching the Triune God. God Bless, K.D.

I see you didn't read my post. I showed you where the Trinity was indeed being taught while John the Apostle was still alive. God Bless, K.D.

John 1:2-3 - He (the Word) was in the beginning with God and all things were made through Him (the Word who was God). John 1:14 - the Word (who is God) became flesh (Jesus) and dwelled among us, full of grace and truth. John 1:18 - the Greek word for "only-begotten" is "monogenes" which means unique, only member of a kind. It does not mean created. John 1:51 - the angels of God - Matt. 13:41 - Son of Man's angels; 2 Thess. 1:7 - Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His angels. John 3:5 - Jesus says without baptism one cannot enter into the Kingdom of God - Col. 1:13 - Paul says this is Jesus' Kingdom. John 6:68-69 - Peter confesses that Jesus is the Son of God who has the words of eternal life. Acts 2:36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ - Acts 4:24 - Sovereign Lord who made heaven and earth. This means Jesus is God. Acts 3:15 - Peter said the men of Israel "killed the Author of Life." This can only be God - Acts 14:15 - who made all things. Acts 20:28 - to care for the Church of God which He obtained with His own blood. This means God shed His blood. When? When He died on the cross. This means Jesus is God. Rom. 1:1 - Paul is an apostle of the Gospel of God - Rom. 15:19 - Paul preached the Gospel of Christ. Rom. 7:22 - Paul says he delights in the law of God - Gal. 6:2 - Paul says fulfill the law of Christ. Rom. 8:9 - Paul refers to both the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. Rom. 9:5 - Jesus Christ is God over all, blessed forever. Rom. 11:36 - God for from Him through Him and to Him are all things - Heb. 2:10 - Jesus for whom and by whom are all things. 1 Cor. 15:9 - Paul says he persecuted the Church of God - Matt. 16:18; Rom. 16:16 - it is the Church of Jesus Christ. 1 Cor. 15:28 - God may be all in all - Colossians 3:11 - Christ is all and in all. Gal. 1:5 - God the Father to whom be the glory forever - 2 Peter 3:18 - to Jesus Christ be the glory both now and forever. Phil. 2:6-7 - Jesus was in the form of God, but instead of asserting His equality with God, emptied Himself for us. Col. 1:15 - Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the "firstborn" of all creation. The Greek word for "first-born" is "prototokos" which means eternal preexistence (it never means created). Col. 1:26 - God's saints - 1 Thess. 3:13 - at the coming of Jesus Christ with all His saints. Col. 2:9 - in Jesus Christ the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily. He is the whole and entire fullness of the indivisible God in the flesh. Titus 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of God - Rom. 1:1 - Paul says he is a servant of Jesus Christ. Titus 1:3-4 - God our Savior = Christ our Savior = Jesus Christ is God. Titus 2:11 - the grace of God that has appeared to save all men - Acts 15:11 - through the grace of Jesus we have salvation. Titus 2:13 - we await our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Titus 3:4 - 3:6 - great God and Savior Jesus Christ = God our Savior = Jesus Christ our Savior = Jesus is God. Heb. 1:6 - when God brings His first-born into the world, let all the angels of God worship Him. Only God is worshiped. Heb. 1:8 - God calls the Son "God." But of the Son He says, "Thy Throne Oh God is forever and ever." Heb. 1:9 - God calls the Son "God." "Therefore, God, Thy God has anointed Thee." Heb. 1:10 - God calls the Son "Lord." "And thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning and the heavens are your work." Heb. 13:12 - Paul says Jesus sanctifies the people with His blood - 1 Thess. 5:23 - the God of peace sanctifies the people. 2 Peter 1:1 - to those who have obtained a faith of equal standing in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ. 1 John 5:20 - "that we may know Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God and eternal life." Jude 4 - Jude calls Jesus Christ our only Master and Lord. Our only Master and Lord is God Himself. Rev. 2:8 - the angel of the church in Smyrna wrote, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." See Isa. 44:6. Rev. 22:6 - the Lord God sends angels - Rev. 22:16 - Jesus sends angels.

The Holy Spirit is a Person Luke 12:12 - the Holy Spirit will teach you in that hour what you ought to say. He (the Holy Spirit) teaches the faithful. John 14:17 - the world neither sees Him or knows Him ("Him" is referring to the Holy Spirit). You know Him for He dwells with you. John 14:26 - the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, He will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all I have said to you. John 15:26 - the Spirit, who proceeds from the Father, He will bear witness to me. He = the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is a person, not a thing. John 16:7 - if I do not go, the Counselor will not come to you. But if I go, I (Jesus) will send Him to you. John 16:7 - this verse also proves the filioque (that the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son). The Father isn

We do know that people who were taught by the Apostles themselves did teach on this issue. I am not talking about generations later but by men who walked and talked with them. Here is one example: St. Polycarp was the Bishop of Smyrna (known as Izmir) in Asia Minor. He was one of the most revered fathers of the church. He talked to apostles, instructed by them, and was the disciple of St. John the Evangelist. He always taught what he had learned from the apostles. Thus, he was known as one of the few named the

Ok let me understand this. You are saying that the Apostles did not understand whether your understanding of scripture is correct or if the "Trinity" understanding is correct. The very people who wrote the new testament didn't know what scripture was telling us, but you, 2000 years later, have a better understanding than the Apostles themselves? K.D.

Is the system back to it's original state? You mentioned that you changed things around. Usually, when you get a smell like that, it is the power supply, but you threw me off saying that you rebooted after changing the memory from one bank to the other and it started to boot. My first thought was the power supply. I had an extra. I tried it and it still didn't work. Maybe the reason it is an extra is because it didn't work either....have to think about that. Yes that is what confused me as well. I have one stick of memory. I switched it to the second bank and it started to boot, but froze. after I hit the reset it stopped booting completely again. Underpowered power supply would freeze a boot....thinking. Yes I have it back to it's original configuration. I might try a third power supply from a working computer. I have 3 About the power supply. Ensure it puts out enough watts for your system. It has to be at least as powerful as the first. Do you hear any beeps when you boot up? If so, count them and go the you BIOS's site to troubleshoot the code. It will tell you what is wrong. Some BIOS's sound like morse code and others don't. If you can't even get that far ... you are not getting any power. OneLight I tried a 3rd power supply, 450 watt. And I still get nothing. I do get lights on the CD, power switch, Ethernet. I am sure it is not the power supply. I do not get any beeps, and the harddrive is not engaging. I saw on E-bay a motherboard analyser for $18 are they worth purchasing. Otherwise it could be the processor, motherboard or memory. As best as I can tell. Thanks, K.D. I would of said that you fried your motherboard, but you are getting a light on your NIC, which indicates that there is power going through the board. Still, only part of it could be fried. Since you are not getting any beeps, then your BIOS is not being run, which is part of the board. I also question why your are getting lights on your CD but not your hard drive? Neither are directly plugged into your motherboard and do not require the board to do anything. Very puzzling. I never used, or heard of, a motherboard analyzer. While on E-Bay, you may want to check out the prices of a motherboard. Praying ... OneLight Sounds like the motherboard went, if it were the RAM or CPU you would still likely get at least an error tone from the bios. The original PSU may have gone bad and fried the motherboard, that happens often. Does the original PSU smell burnt? I have not pulled the CPU yet. I will see if its looks brown. It would be nice if I only had to buy one and not both the CPU and Motherboard. Thanks, K.D.

I know of no scripture that would indicate that God is 3 separate being as taught by trinitarians,The man Jesus Christ is distinct from the Father because of his humanity,but to say God is 3 separate beings,people,persons,or inities is not biblical and in 14 pages,140+ post I have yet to see any one give scripture that would indicate this. I know people get real deffencive when you tell them,what they had always been told or what they have learned is not necassaraly true,but I think it is important to study scripture with an open heart believing Gods word over any thing else ,even if it isn't what the church says ,or what your pastor says, or what your mother says. Let me say this my dad was a preacher and he was trinitarian,my pastor now is trinitarian,my mom is trinitarian,I had always been trinitarian.Until I got truly saved ,started devouring the word praying dillegently for understanding and God has revealed himself to me. Oneness was hard for me to accept when God first started revealing it to me, so I can understand why others might not want to accept it when I share with them the truth.But we must know that people in the church are fallible but God is not. For those that can not separate themselves from their indoctrination an accept the truth of Gods word on this subject.I am sure they are still good God fearing christians on their way to heaven.But when people start acussing us that have accepted the truth of blasphemy and heresy then they are stepping onto some very thin ice.I honestly hope they dont fall through. One more thing God revealed to me the doctrine of oneness b4 I ever knew that it was something that was taught or accepted by others God Bless You All. Maybe I missed it but I don't think you answered my question. You are defending your position, but you didn't answer my question. So here it is again. #1:Do you think the Apostles new the answer to this question? And then,#2: Something as important as this, do you think Paul would have taught Timothy the correct understanding? There are two parts to the question and you may have a different answer to each, But just a simple yes or no will help me understand where you are coming from. K.D.

I am going to be gone for 3 days so I will not be able to complete this until I am back. But let me ask a question. Do you think the Apostles new the answer to this question? And then, something as important as this, do you think Paul would have taught Timothy the correct understanding? When you have two competing opinions both using scripture, but apposed to each other, Where do you turn for understanding. Both sides will claim to be guided by the Holy Spirit, but clearly the Holy spirit is not guiding people to two different truths that are apposed to each other. This is where personal interpretation and Pride get in the way. God Bless, K.D.

I agree,I would like nothing better than to debate the subject of trinity vs oneness with out the extra caricular stuff.Just to get back on subject I will post a paper I wrote on my personal opinion on this debate.It is titled ''The Doctrine of Oneness'' THE DOCTRINE OF ONENESS: God is one and has always been one. Jesus is the man God became. Jesus did not exist before incarnation as God the Son. In His pre-incarnate state, He existed as the Father, God Himself. Now the two of them are in heaven together, God the Father and the man he became, the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The problem is that when I say the Father became a man people think it means I believe he stopped being an eternal spirit after incarnation and that heaven was empty. This is not what I believe.God the Father continued to exist as a transendant, unlimited spirit, while also becomming a man. The Father did not become confined to a human existance. It is not as though the omnipresent spirit of God transformed himself into a man, to the exclusion of his existance as the Holy spirit. When God assumed a human existance with a complete human mind, psyche, will, and emotion etc. He was distinct from the Father while he continued to exist as the Father in heaven. As a genuine human being, Jesus was and is distinct from the Father. This is because of HIs humanity not because he is the second person of the Trinity. While I confess that the deity of the Son did pre-exist incarnation, I do not see that deity as the second person of the Trinity, known as " God the Son ", and seperate from the Father or Holy Spirit, but rather as the uni-personal God of the old testament. Yaweh, the Father, the Great I Am. Concerning the Holy Spirit, I believe He is the Spirit of God the Father and not a seperate person of the Trinity, the third person known as " God the Holy Spirit. " The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God, He is the spirit of the Father, He is the spirit of Christ. God is a spirit, the Holy Spirit. There is one God not three, nor are there three persons that create one God. He is one uni-personal God that He himself became flesh. There is no such person as God the son nor God the Holy Spirit but God the Father, the son of God and the spirit of God. Did you know that this same debate raged in the very first century. Did you also know that the very first Christians that sat at the feet of the Apostles answer this debate? God Bless, K.D.

Is the system back to it's original state? You mentioned that you changed things around. Usually, when you get a smell like that, it is the power supply, but you threw me off saying that you rebooted after changing the memory from one bank to the other and it started to boot. My first thought was the power supply. I had an extra. I tried it and it still didn't work. Maybe the reason it is an extra is because it didn't work either....have to think about that. Yes that is what confused me as well. I have one stick of memory. I switched it to the second bank and it started to boot, but froze. after I hit the reset it stopped booting completely again. Underpowered power supply would freeze a boot....thinking. Yes I have it back to it's original configuration. I might try a third power supply from a working computer. I have 3 About the power supply. Ensure it puts out enough watts for your system. It has to be at least as powerful as the first. Do you hear any beeps when you boot up? If so, count them and go the you BIOS's site to troubleshoot the code. It will tell you what is wrong. Some BIOS's sound like morse code and others don't. If you can't even get that far ... you are not getting any power. OneLight I tried a 3rd power supply, 450 watt. And I still get nothing. I do get lights on the CD, power switch, Ethernet. I am sure it is not the power supply. I do not get any beeps, and the harddrive is not engaging. I saw on E-bay a motherboard analyser for $18 are they worth purchasing. Otherwise it could be the processor, motherboard or memory. As best as I can tell. Thanks, K.D.

I was so disappointed in Brownback for not backing Huckabee. And what is with that wacko tv evangelist backing Giuliani?

Is the system back to it's original state? You mentioned that you changed things around. Usually, when you get a smell like that, it is the power supply, but you threw me off saying that you rebooted after changing the memory from one bank to the other and it started to boot. My first thought was the power supply. I had an extra. I tried it and it still didn't work. Maybe the reason it is an extra is because it didn't work either....have to think about that. Yes that is what confused me as well. I have one stick of memory. I switched it to the second bank and it started to boot, but froze. after I hit the reset it stopped booting completely again. Underpowered power supply would freeze a boot....thinking. Yes I have it back to it's original configuration. I might try a third power supply from a working computer. I have 3

Ok while we are getting free computer help, while running my home computer I started smelling something getting hot. I shut it down as fast as I could. Now it won,t boot at all, nothing on the screen. Do you think it is the processor, motherboard, memory, or videocard? I had an old hard drive I swapped in and still get nothing so I don't think it is the harddrive. I also had a spare power supply and still nothing. I did switch the memory to the second bank. I have a single 1 gig stick. It started to boot and then froze. Now I get a total black screen. Thanks, K.D.

The Apostles set up Church ministers through out the area. They also set up a process for new ministers to be commissioned within the People of the Church. The People in that Church followed these ministers for they had the assurance that they were indeed being led by the Holy Spirit. Occasionally some one with in the church didn't follow what the Apostles has set up and drew people away to themselves and their personal doctrine. Scripture calls these people wolves. God Bless, K.D.

Why is this a shame. He is using the horrific tragedy and loss of his son to try and achieve something good. Just because some one has an agenda does not make it a bad thing. His agenda is to point out that we have created a society of death where life has been marginalised. This is absolute truth in this case. The boys who committed this crime did not value the lives of those they killed. Our society and their parents taught them those "lack" of values. When you can find ways to justify the taking of innocent life this is the inevitable result of such a slippery slope. Yes he is using his sons memorial so that maybe some other father won't have to. And some how this is a bad thing? He is getting no personal gain from this, unlike what we far to often see in politics. There agendas are really just smoke screens for lining their own pockets. This is absolutely not the case here. I see no shame. God Bless, K.D.

Faithees, Is that a new word? Lets rewrite the dictionary and make sure it is in there God Bless, K.D.

Faithees, Is that a new word? Lets rewrite the dictionary and make sure it is in there God Bless, K.D.

with out reading all the other replies, the simplest reply would be the example on the cross..... the thief, dying right long side Christ.... being told that he will be with Christ in paradise. mike The problem with the Thief example is that we do not know how he lived his life prior to his hanging. He may have been caught steeling trying to get food for his starving children for all we know. He obviously recognised Jesus for who he was. Could some one who rebelled against God their entire life suddenly come to full realization. Who knows? It is for God to judge not us. God Bless, K.D.

Thats not always the case though. Look at logging on public lands for example. Logging on public lands actually costs taxpayers money. Shifting the responsibility for brown-field cleanup from the industries that created them to the taxpayer costs us all money. Dealing with the public health costs associated with air and water pollution costs us all money. When you really look at the green solutions out there, they are typically far cheaper than the alternatives. I have no problem with a discussion on how pollution causes health problems and cost us more than the solution. I think if the discussions would stay in this type of arena you would see much greater support. It is when you have claims of the world coming to an end unless you buy carbon offsets, from the company I benefit from, that I start to have problems. If they would stick to facts and dump the sensationalism and obvious money grabs you could have a fervent Christian environmental movement. God Bless, K.D.