GymRose

This statement would exclude that mighty prayer worriers who are in total silence to the world but have pure access to God through prayer. They are interceding for the millions who are in trouble. They are not the ones who are out seeking the lost in public, but the quiet person who never speaks. The one thing I don't like about his argument, which has been mentioned, is that Dr Evans places everyone in one of two categories, totally eliminating the new brother or sister that has just come to the Lord. What about the sick who are in the hospitals or those in jail. We also have homeless who are saved that nobody would even give a second of their time to. Excellent points OneLight, I think we all know people who fit into the areas you speak of and are vital to the body.

Yes I do know the meaning of translating or translation but I'll put it here for you. TRANSLATE 1. to turn from one language into another or from a foreign language into one's own: to translate Spanish. 2. to change the form, condition, nature, etc., of; transform; convert: to translate wishes into deeds. 3. to explain in terms that can be more easily understood; interpret. 4. to bear, carry, or move from one place, position, etc., to another; transfer. 5. Mechanics. to cause (a body) to move without rotation or angular displacement; subject to translation. 6. Computers. to convert (a program, data, code, etc.) from one form to another: to translate a FORTRAN program into assembly language. 7. Telegraphy. to retransmit or forward (a message), as by a relay. 8. Ecclesiastical. a. to move (a bishop) from one see to another. b. to move (a see) from one place to another. c. to move (relics) from one place to another. 9. to convey or remove to heaven without natural death. 10. Mathematics. to perform a translation on (a set, function, etc.). 11. to express the value of (a currency) in a foreign currency by applying the exchange rate. 12. to exalt in spiritual or emotional ecstasy; enrapture.

Hey Ya Angelique Listen to that gut instinct within you. From the sounds of your post it sounds like you know deep within yourself that something is not right. Definetley weigh every thing against the Bible and what you know of God but also listen closely for the concience He has given you. The more you listen your concience and act accordingly the stronger it will become and you will know for certain to say, this is not right. I believe God gives us dreams and visions but He also gives us discernment and His word to know the difference. One other thing is your animals. How do they react ??? I believe animals are amazingly discerning. A few years ago I had a couple of ladies who cleaned house for me. I'll never forget one day when one of my cats made contact with one of the cleaning ladies for the first time. My cat walked into a room and saw this lady, my cats back went up and the two of them locked eyes, next thing my cat flew at this lady, hissing all the way then vered off and scurried under the lounge. The cat in question has always been skittish but I have never seen a cat react to any person this way and never since. A few weeks later the other cleaner told me she had been placed on child molestation charges, needless to say that one cleaner never came into my home again. My point is the cat saw something in this woman, she saw something unseen by either myself or the other cleaner. A similar thing happend with my dog, he has never been an aggressive animal at all and is so friendly with everyone but on two occassions he has reacted, once to a delivery guy and another time to a guy who asked what we were doing with some copper in our yard. With the guy asking for the copper I saw him coming up the yard and felt nervous by his look so took the dog to the door with me but never expect my dog to react the way he did. He is a very discerning animal. I know in these cases it was people involved but the animals sense something in the spirit that we don't always sense. If your animals are reacting I would take note of that too.

I like the way you put that and couldn't agree more. And yes you are correct simplistic faith and theological faith both need one another, just another example of the body working, each member working in it's given function and purpose,not all as the head, not all as an arm, not all as a foot etc. Just as each translation does serve a purpose for each part of the body. I do love the eloquence of the KJV but if I had to read it as my main Bible on a daily bases some days I just wouldn't pick it up because it does take effort to read. You wouldn't pick it up because it does take effort to read? Did I read that correctly? So you would rather read something that takes no effort to read, even though it might leave important verses out like Matthew 17:21, as opposed to something reliable that takes effort? I just don't understand the modern church, and probably never will. No that is not what I am saying at all because I don't believe one is more reliable than other. I'm saying if I've had a hard day I would rather read something that I believe to be God breathed that is easier to read than nothing at all.

GymRose never mentioned a Children's Bible. She mentioned a children's story book. There is a huge difference. Of course such books will plant seeds, but that has nothing to do with the question of Bible translations. A movie like "The 10 Commandments" will plant seeds as well, but it is not absolute truth. Yes I actually ment Children's Bibles and I ment exactly what OneLight posted. I see the Children's Bibles very much a translation of the Bible we read as adults and very much inspired by the Holy Spirit to teach our children in a language they understand so simply.... Likewise other than the profit aspect I mentioned I see in marketing the Bible in so many various ways I do believe God speaks to us so clearly through His word in termsthat many can understand. God gave us all different personalities, it is no different to my children in that I have one that learns well academically and another that learns hands on and yet another who is a mix of the two making it difficult to speak to them or train them in exactly the same way. I don'tthink we as Christians are any different

I like the way you put that and couldn't agree more. And yes you are correct simplistic faith and theological faith both need one another, just another example of the body working, each member working in it's given function and purpose,not all as the head, not all as an arm, not all as a foot etc. Just as each translation does serve a purpose for each part of the body. I do love the eloquence of the KJV but if I had to read it as my main Bible on a daily bases some days I just wouldn't pick it up because it does take effort to read.

I don't know about you Richard, you sound simillar to me, like you like to pull everything apart so to speak to have complete understanding. Sometimes I believe it is those who are not theological or analytical that are more blessed in some ways because even Jesus spoke of having faith like a child and the simplicity of a Child's Bible is sometimes so refreshing, it is the basics of basics of the stories and beliefs. I was even told once as a young Christian to get hold of some Biblical children's books before getting really stuck into the Bible itself because they formed the bases of faith in such a simplistic way.... They themselves are like a translation. Just remembered that as I was writting. You are correct, to want to study language has to be inspired I think because without a desire it would be too hard as an adult, I'm yet to start and yet I've had the desire for some time. It's to know where to start in amongst family, running a business with Hubby, renovations and Genealogy. LOL The main thing is understanding who God is and who you are in Him beause He is God. Man has had a hand in every Bible translation therefore there would be different views and motives in all.

I used to go with what ever translation the church I was in at the time was using but as more and more came into focus the "business" of Bibles and Christian literature began to grind on me with regars to it being a seemingly monetary business, more so that spreading the word of God. I began to see Bibles like Mars Bars, we have the original Mars Bar, the Mars Bar Pods, the Mars Bar Bites..... Etc, you get my point. A new way of marketing the same product for extra profit. With the degree of change I also saw in doctrine within the church, the twisting of scripture from the pulpit to fit the direction of leadership and the twisting of scripture to gain greater authority over congegants, I began to ask questions and wanted the real answer. I wanted to know why we did as we did not because it was always done that way or because the Pastor was being "led by the Spirit" to go in another direction. So I started with wanting to know which is the Bible translation to use and I wanted to know the history behind which is the best translation to use. What I have personally found is that unless I learn Hebrew I am not going to get the same text exactly. Right from the time of the Council of Niece politics and the motives of church leadership has played a part in the Bible we have today in english, be it the 1611 translation or the translations of today. One thing I ask God about often though is that of personality. I know God gave us all the ability to learn to read but some struggle with reading greatly, some love the theological in depth reading others find that very hard and I do wonder if even the children's story books are God breathed. I go through times where I read the Bible stories as children's books to my boys and I get the greatest revelation ever but then sometimes it is when I am in a deeply theological or philosophical frame of mind that I have revelation through the word. At the end of the day to have absolute Biblical truth we'd need a time machine and or the ability to speak and understand the language of the day.

During the last few years I came to the point of asking,"Why do we do Church as we do?" As I started to learn the history of the Christian church I found so much of Roman political settings and practices wrapped up in Christianity..... But then on the other hand, the reason I was questioning was that of the church splits I had endured through and the "professionalism" of the Sunday church service in particular the "professionalism" of Worship as well as the "professionalism" of those in leadership. For the last 15 years I have been a part of the Pentecostal Churchand what I saw before leaving was that it was more about getting someone to say the Sinners Prayer, the ritual of it if you like. You look at these Mega Churches, in particular those proclaiming to be the youthful ones, the number they have at an Alter Call are staggering.... But, how many are performing the ritual due to the ambience and how many are moved by heart? I am no one to judge, whatever goes on in someones heart is between them and God, however the question remains. Personally I think ritual can be good in context, such as the ritual of when you pray and when you study etc, how you do those things, but when rital becomes empty ritual or just doing something because it has always been done that way, that is when the ritual becomes and idol. The new thing movement "in" church walls I have been seriously wounded by as I have seen many, many others including my teenage son. The new thing movement outside of the church walls is a different thing altogether because people are tired of "doing church" for doing church sake and seeking God in a different way to our modern church in the walls, what I have seen is people wanting to know God through an old way. If you take away ritual and you take away the new thing..... It is what is left that matters. Is it a heart that LOOOOONGS for God without all these things simply because He is God..... Lord of ALL ??? or Do you just walk away and cease to be in relationship with God ???

I pondered this yesterday and today as I cried buckets of tears,the last 2 years have been devistating in too many ways to go into and the last few days I've cried torrents. Funny I should read this today. My question to God yesterday was, "Haven't I cried enough already? And anyway if you save all my tears.... How much space do you have for them because I must be upto several rainwater tanks by now ??? " True..... That is exactly what I asked Him just yesterday. I don't know ??? I just wish He'd empty some of those rainwater tanks of my tears on South Australia as we go through this drought.

Two years ago that would have convicted me. Now I would say I would disqualify it as dogmatic. It is not for us as people to say who is on either of these sides as a Christian. I am these days percieved by many including family members to be a backslider because I have come away from the "institutional church", for lack of a better term. I no longer attend church, way too long of a story to explain in one sitting and that is another topic. Those people who judge me as having turned my back on God though have no idea of the seeking I have been through since leaving, they have no idea of the study I have partaken in, they know nothing of MY relationship with God and the constant cry within me to do right in His sight and His alone..... Likewise I know nothing of theirs. I have sat in meetings with similar preaching and felt absolutley guilt ridden, not convicted, guilt ridden over never leading anyone to the Lord and judged by man, not God over this issue. There is only one type of Christian..... And that is..... A Christian..... And as Christians it is not our place to put each other in boxes due to our perceptions of anothers outward appearence or actions. When I talk of actions or appearence I don't mean sinful, I'm talking in action versus inaction to witness, preach, etc. Do not judge lest you be judged. No man knows anothers heart or motives only God. Likewise only God knows who IS and IS NOT a Christian. I've never led anyone to the Lord persay but I've given an old lady time out of my day whilst shopping, I've given the mum struggling with her tantrumous toddler a knowing smile and comment to let her know it is normal and OK not to be embarressed, I've texted friends at times they despratley needed to know God was in their corner. On a daily basis I'm sure God does use me in little ways for him. I never say I'm a Christian, I never say can I pray but to that little old lady in the shop maybe she just needed to know someone cared enough to listen. My point being I may not preach, I may not shout hey I'm a Christian but that is because God created me to be me and the Preachers to be Preachers and the Artists to be Artists. God uses us all and ONLY HE has the right to judge each one of us. Doesn't he tell us that we will be suprised who is in heaven and who isn't?

This is SoulSeekingPassion............ When I came here to post this question I couldn't remember my password and I had deleted my hotmail address i thought my GymRose account was attached to sometime ago........ It was just easier to sign up again but YEAH I remembered my password the other day. Thanks for the responses. I haven't posted a reply up until now because I did notmean for the question to offend anyone or anything and the other reason is more because of the replies I had left me feeling exactly as Felix stated and this is also why I posed the question. This dream was about this time last year and when I had it I first thought it was about me but because our pastor at the time and his wife were in this dream along with it being church orientated in a very clear way I shared it with the pastor's wife who told me just to pray about it. I prayed about it for quite some time because I couldn't let it go, but eventually put it on a shelf. This year our church has gone through tremendous upheaval. I don't just mean a few niggles here and there I mean our pastor and his wife seperated, we had a new leadership team come in who have strewn deception right through the congragation and whilst no one has termed it a church split because it hasn't been a case of a huge group walk out and either go somewhere else a whole, half the congragation has left. We have come aside for a time to rest in another church with a much trusted pastor but feel asif we will be going back in due course. When I say deception I mean the entire eldership and board have their eyes closed to things that go strictly against Biblical truth and there is no one to turn to for support in the leadership.When I say deception I mean those that are deceiving others are just as much in deception themselves. Many have been lost to the thought of church altogether through this and others have been so deeply wounded that it will take quite some time to trust. During the last 6 months which has been spiritually devestating and hurtful this dream came back to me and God gave me the interpretation to it which showed what has been happening in the church within the last 6-12months. We have continued in a home group with some members that continue to go to the church one of which keeps wanting to talk to me about dreams I've had because of a conversation we had one night, I haven't known her long but I do believe her and her husband are very trustworthy and their eyes are open to what is happening which is why they have supported our decision to come aside for a time. We have family that are still at the church and very much under the influence of whatever it is that is keeping peoples eyes closed to the truth. I think the posts above have answered my questions but feel free to make comment on any thing I have said. I do understand the post that says to keep it to yourself, I understand poor judgement and pride can cause wrong actions resulting in hurting people, I've experienced that. But I've also experienced words of encouragement through others dreams or prophetic words and I know not eveyone believes in speaking out prophetically.

I think I musta just posted something really good or rather tried to and as I clicked send reply my server dropped out. I haven't got time to write it all again now but........... I will be back. You know you've got a good thing when everything comes against it being said.

I have read over and over about the pope that just passed being the last pope to pass as in die and earthly death. I sincerely believe we are near the end but like you and many others really do not know. I'm glad you had the courage to share this. About 2 weeks before the Tsunami I had a dream that my Hubby and I were in the water on boards and I turned my head to see a huge wave raising up then looked to Hubby and motioned him, as I looked back again the wave came crashing over us and as I woke I felt the horror of trying to get to the surface. When I woke I told Dan ( Hubby ) of my strange dream, Strange because I hate the beach and we definetly don't surf but it was certainly a tropical setting we where in. When we heard the news of the Tsunami we looked at each other in shock, remembering the dream I had. I'd never experienced anything like it. But I had no idea what it was I was dreaming and how could you alert anyone to such a thing. Just what do you do with a dream like that ???? It takes courage to share and who knows maybe your dream could be a warning of what is to come and maybe not but if and when times get worse at least you have shared it and maybe others will remember and at least know what we are living through is about. More and more christians are opening their eyes to the decipt of this world and we need to listen to those that see what some can not see.

How can you put what I was trying to say in all that long post into one small line like that............................. ???????????????????? ROFL ROFL

A good preacher will encourage you to test the words with the Bible................ To tell you to check it out for yourself not just believe the words from their mouth. Then there is the question of interpretation, which stumps me................... Somethings ARE cut and dried like sin is sin, none worse than another in Gods eyes and yet we play down our own, like we haven't murdered but we may have told a white lie..................... God says sin is sin. But then there are some things not as cut and dried and there is also the question of culture and were certain laws for certain groups because of certain things etc......... Personally I think the best teacher is His spirit in us.............. We all know what conviction feels like and as we read we should listen to our inner still voice. I've sat in meetings before and had things that were being preached just not sit right but the fact is we are all human and don't get it right all the time and teachers and preachers are no different.

It wasn't banned by the company but by the people who oversee how things are being marketed, to protect people...................... Something that is no longer around but was there during that period.

LOL................... I also said questionable lyrics......................

I was involved in a major accident years ago, I had a Jesus sticker on my car and was playing christian music at the time........................... I quite litterally should be dead from that accident............... Our cars hit head on driver to driver as I was doing 60 km/h ( approx 35 mile/hour ) the other car out of control flew over ( literally flew ) the medium strip at an even greater speed and killed the passenger and did massive amounts of damage to all occupants of both cars. The officer investegating the crash after I was released from hospital said someone was deffinetly watching over you and your son................ I came awy with a broken elbow & cheek along with black, very black bruises and cuts all over, Rhys had a scratch on his neck and my friend who was with me had a cut on her forehead..................... The other car had one fatality, the driver took months to rhabilitate because of the seriousness of his crushed legs, 2 dogs and a girl that were in the back seat came away very shaken but pretty OK. The officer also said all I have to do is check the tape or music people are listening to and look at the stickers on their car and in almost every case where drug use, drink or wild behaviour is involved the music in the car is heavy metal or music with questionable lyrics. This man was not a christian at all but he could clearly see the link between music and behaviour. Also with the marketing thing............. I think it was in the 70s or early 80s they tried putting a song on in the supermarkets at normal shopping centre level and just slightly quieter they put an add on at the asame time for Coke and sales went through the roof.......................... Thus it was banned!!!! It worked too well and a ban was placed on it. Tis not only sound but look at the adds on TV and all the shows like CSI etc. Great shows and drama but what about the subtle desensitization to death and murder.

Amen to all that. We do the thing with all the different churches in our area getting together too and it is amazing how different groups with different ways of worshiping the same God can come together and worship as one.

I don't agree with JWs but I must say the links posted are really hype of those that don't understand them. We live next door to a beautiful elderly couple who are JWs and I also was very briefly involved with them with my ex. I don't agree with their method of disfellowship as my ex suffered greatly at the hands of this and lost many close friends, simply because he met me. However I don't agree with this type of degrading of them either. The pics where they have smiling faces are about this world being over and being as they believe in paradise, it needs to be in it's correct context. Not taken out of context as these sites have done. As for pedaphelia............ Can I say one thing.................. The Catholic Church!!! Really no one here would accept this being put on here about the Catholic Church and nor should this type of hype be taken into account just because it is a religon people like to snear at. JW and Mormons are definetly not main stream but well know religons just ( context ) like Christians. Catholic Churches are always under fire for sexual crimes within schools etc. This link and site needs to be put back where it belongs ......................... In the bin. BTW I am a penticostal Christian not a Catholic but I'm sure there have been plenty of non Catholic Christian churches accused as well.

I had no idea Shadow, Dove and LadyC were gone too!!!! These are some of the people who welcomed me as well as sharing wonderful testimonies & personal challenges with me through PM to encourage me through very difficult times along with LCP. I can't believe this................... :down: :down: :down: :down:

Quite seriously the way this world is I think they have it completely right and if it weren't for the fact I have parents who are unwell who I need to be close to I would our family out woop woop and live the most simplistic life possible. A non christian friend said to me the other day have you noticed how all our evening veiwing is murders at the moment, we have all the Law & Orders plus all the CSIs, Real Life murder solving, Lost Without a Trace, Cold Case............ etc. That is through the week every night on unpaid TV.......... not much time for anything else. On Pay TV can anyone point out a show that doesn't include sex, homosexuality, murder, abuse or some form of off adult content besides DIY shows. And really when you think about it the shows about the murders these days are really DIY murder shows for those that have a tendancy. I mean show the wrong person HOW TO and they WILL. Electricity in itself isn't evil but there is a lot of evil coming from it. I get bombarded day after day with telemarketers and now if they can't get me on fixed line they try the mobile, sms and email. Cars well I really don't need to say much about road rage and the fact that when we get home from where ever, we are steamed by the lack of care by other drivers and angry with ourselves for behaving in a similar matter due to getting so fed up. We drive our kids here there and everywhere so they can fit in and play all the sport then have lil or no time for family and even when the sport is scaled down other things creep in. Kids are confined as far as space goes to run because we have small back yard and you can't allow your kids even to go down the local park cause you just don't know who is lurking. Oh for a more simplistic loving life where we know our neighbours and I don't mean just the ones next door if you get that opportunity but I mean our community of neighbours. And amoungst all this where is our quantity of time with God. Yup I think they have it right.

Do you know that everyone of those things can be used for good? People with pasts like yours can often be the greatest witness to another. Have you turned from all those things and has the difficulties you face with your body stopped you from coming to God. If you can survive all you have and end up being physically challenged AND still turn to God YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE!!!!!! Failure is giving up............. Failure would be saying it is too hard to believe God could love me for all I have done and been..................... NOT A FAILURE AT ALL. Don't ever think you are. The greatest testimonies come from people that are so hard to believe they could change their lives and turn to God............ Usually pasts like yours. You HAVE so much to give.

Oak I haven't met you yet............... I've had a lil break with house moving and all but you do belong. I understand what you mean but honestly your life experience gives you what you need to have something to give to others. I'm no theologeon either but I do know what is in my heart and the experiences I have had that I can use to help others. Please stick around and give me the chance to get to know you and show you that you do have something to offer others. My hubby Dan aka Man of Work spends time here as well and I'm sure he would like the opportunity to show you as well. I looked at your profile and saw you are 41. In 41 years of being on this earth you would have an abundance of life experience be it good or bad you can use it all especially if you only became a christian not long ago. Don't be ashamed everyone is still learning............. Even the ones that have been christians for a very long time. I'm almost 32 and became a christian at 13 and I too feel so inadequite at times. Don't ever think that what you have or know isn't enough there are peopl who come here that don't know Christ at all.................... YOU BELONG.