Nanners

SHILOH! Well stated

I believe all this is the work of God. It is also Ironic that the Palestinians now have Gaza but they actually imprisoned themselves. Those in Gaza does not have access to the West Bank which is where their temple is and also many in gaza have jobs in Jerusalem. They first celebrated this victory but in the end it really wasn't a victory. God knows what he is doing. And its all for a purpose. Israel is coming back and growing, which is what needs to be done for prophesy to be fulfilled. Palestine cannot be their own state if its split in the middle. This land is the land promised to Israel and God never takes back His promises.

Gog is the Country (Russia) and Magog is referring to a location (Asia)

I agree, there are jews who believe in Christ. I guess I didn't clarify myself.

You are defining what all christians should do. But I'm not sure what you mean by storm and dominate the marketplace. Your mission is putting on the Armor of God!,

You know, while Gog has traditionally been believed to mean Russia, with the breakup of the Soviet Union, that really isn't necessarily true anymore. From Genesis 10:2 we know the land of Magog (from which Gog is derived) are the desecendants of Japheth, who are traditionally though to have founded the Scythian Empire. While parts of the Scythian Empire are in present day Russia, The (now) independant countires of Georgia, Armenia and Azebaijan(a mostly Muslim nation) are also located in that region, as well as parts of Turkey and Iran. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I see your point, but Russia now contains several independent countries that are no longer united. IE> USSR Name in Bible TODAY Persia Modern Iran and United Arab Republic Cush (Ethiopia) 1st Son of Ham Black African Nations Daniel 11:36-45 Many African Nations will be united and allied with Russia Russian Force is called: King of the North African (Cush) Force is called the King of the South Put (Lybya) 3rd son of Ham Arabic Africaqn Nations Gomer and All its Hordes Iron Curtain Countries (Gomer is the eldest son of Japheth) Gomer settled north of Black Sea and then spread south and westward which would make it Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia and E Germany Togarma and all its Hordes Southern Russia and Cossacks Ezekiel 38:6 Northern nation and country sprung from Gomer abounding in HOrses and Mules : Central Asia Ezekiel 38:7 Russan Ruler is to equip his confederates (countries I listed above) and assumes command. Then Ezekiel 38:7 Last war of all Nations.

I am sorry, avenaue, but the Church was not, is not, and never will be "Israel." The Bible nowhere makes that assertion. The Church is the Church, period. Israel is Israel, period. That is truth, that is Bible. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You are not making any sense again Shilo. Are you saying that the church is all gentiles and that Israel are all Jews. Christ is the king of Israel and He is the head of the Church. The Church is the new covenant. When a new covenant is made the old ones are nul and void. Mt 15 24 But He answered and said, "I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Mt 26 28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins. Heb 8 13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The Church is made up of believers both Jewish and Gentile. The Church has been given spiritual blessings as they are a spirtual "nation" if you will. The nation of Israel is a physical entity. The physical nation of Israel inhabits a place on earth. Israel was given physical blessings. God has not taken away those blessings, He has not transferred them to anyone else. Israel has been and shall remain God's nation (Jeremiah 31:35-36.) You cannot confuse the two. When God talks about Israel, he is either talking about the entire nation, the northern Kingdom, or even Jocob Himself, who was named "Israel." When God is speaking to or about the Church, he is speaking to a body of baptized, spiritfilled believers. God NEVER once in the NT declares that the Church has replaced Israel, nor does he declare that the Church IS Israel. One cannot be saved without being a part of the Church. One cannot be saved simply by belonging to the nation of Israel. Jewish or Israelite pedigree is worthless where salvation is concerned. Israel and the Church are two separate entities, and they must remain separate for the Bible and the endtime prophecies to make sense. No, this is not so. The Church participates in the "New Covenant" but it is NOT the New Covenant. The term New Covenant from Hebrew is "Brit Chadashah" it is a term that means "renewed covenant." The New Covenant is not "New" in the absolute sense. It still has a sacrficial system. It simply has a better one. The Brit Chadashah is a modified version of the previous covenant, and it makes the previous one obsolete. In the old days people used to de-seed cotton by hand, until Eli Whitney invented the cotton gin. The cotton gin did not do away with the need to de-seed cotton, it simply provided a better way to do it. In the same way, the Brit Chadashah did not do away with man's need for a sacrifce, but it provides a better sacrifice, a better priesthood and better blood through Christ. It was also modified to account for the entrance of the Gentiles by faith. The New Covenant is with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah. That is not a reference to the church, and no amount of theological gymnastics can twist into such a reference, especially considering the surrounding context of Jer. 31. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sorry, I'm jumping into this late. But I do not see the church as including the Jews since they have not accepted Jesus as their Messiah. You cannot enter heaven without accepting christ as your savior. However, the Jews are not forever doomed. Because of God's blessing and grace and per Ezekiel 38:15 the last war of all nations will result in divine intervention to prevent annihilation of all mankind, this will cause a great majority of Jews to see Jesus as their Messiah. Don't you just love GOD His grace is incomprehensible

Very true Yomo! However, Jesus did give us an idea when the time is near regarding his return to be near. Along with several OT Prophesies. Ezekiel 38: 14-23 14Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes. 17Thus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? 18And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man

Do you think they will be able to clone water for the desert?????

Jewish Extremist Kills 4 Arabs On Israeli Bus Gunman Was Dressed As Israeli Soldier POSTED: 3:47 pm EDT August 4, 2005 UPDATED: 4:33 pm EDT August 4, 2005 JERUSALEM -- Four Israeli Arabs are dead, after a Jewish extremist opened fire inside a bus. The teenage gunman, identified by Israel TV as Eden Tsuberi, 19, was dressed as an Israeli soldier. Thirteen bystanders were also wounded in what's being called the deadliest attack on Arabs in Israel since 1990. The attacker was then killed by a mob after the shooting. The shooting of the Israeli Arabs was "a despicable act by a bloodthirsty terrorist," said Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Attacks by Jewish extremists on Arabs are rare inside Israel. Israel TV reported the man was from the West Bank settlement of Tapuah -- known as one of the most extreme -- and that the incident could be tied to Israel's planned Gaza and West Bank pullout. Security officials have been warning about possible attacks as a way of sabotaging the pullout. The withdrawal is set to begin in two weeks. Should we expect more of this in the coming weeks?

You are correct. If you have prayed about this and sought the Lord's face, then this is between you and Him. I would not endorse this to young minds who have no means of 'spiritual covering' (who don't know Christ personally), and are thus vulnerable to demonic influences. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I feel best to stay away from anything that has to do with witchcraft period. It's really walking on a tight rope and you can fall anytime. God warned us and I heed his warning. My children will not be allowed to read the books. Best to heed the nursery song: "Be careful little eyes what you see" I don't want the enemy to use anything against me or my family. There is nothing wrong with imaginary animals, but when you add witchcraft, its a bad mix. Yes, I read the article. The secular world will try to use anything to make an excuse to not fully honor God.

Great post. I hope my hammer builds the house!

Constant I've lived in NC since 1976 so I have weathered several hurricanes. The worst one for me was Fran in 1996 that came into the Triad. PTL we had no damage to our home but lost a great number of trees and no power or water for a week. I had a 3 month old baby (first child) and then my pregnant sister and her husband stayed with us for 3 weeks the day after the hurricane hit. Only advise is to be prepared with non perishable food, store containers of water and plenty of batteries for flashlights! If your plumbing runs on electricity, then just before the storm hits, fill your bathtubs up with water for bird bath bathing and flushing of the toilet. You probably know all this already. Just pray and know that God will always be with you!

I've read through this thread, Very interesting and funny at parts. It's good we all have a sense of humor. AF84 has some legitimate questions and even for some Christians it can be hard to understand at first because we have such a finite mind. I believe in the Trinity as three seperate persons in one. They are not seperate God's but one God. I do have a deeper question though that came to me while reading the responses. When we get to heaven, do you think we will we see the trinity as one. I'm not sure how to explain my pondering. I guess I can't wait to get to heaven so all my questions will become clear.

Taking a look at history. Martin Luther started the Reformation. He was a Catholic Monk and was in disagreement with the Church when they made people pay for repentence, lost loves one's...etc. He was the first person the write the bible in his own native language (German) because he felt the people should have access to God's Holy word and not rely on the Church to give their interpretation as they felt fit. So, according to this history, the bible was limited to the religious leaders and not the common people. This was even so during the times of the Old and New Testament when the holy word was read from scrolls.

I not sure by what you mean about the word "rewarded" that you used Are you implying that the reward is for man's will or God's? ITA kraz4gsus

AMEN

I think I sense Martin Luther squirming in his grave that the thought of this proposal

There is a organization called LoveINC (Love in the name of Christ) It is a world-wide organization that works with several churches in the community to help people in need. The petition you quoted, sounds scary and almost like the works of a world religion mentioned in Revelation.

The rich young ruler was given a choice. The issue was set before him whether he would choose his riches or eternal life. There is nothing to suggest that Jesus inhibited his ability to choose eternal life. It was his love of material wealth that caused him to make the wrong choice. Furthermore, Jesus did choose His disciples, but that refers to a particular office or destiny, not that he chose them to receive eternal life. Most of those who operate in ministry were chosen by God for that purpose, but NONE are chosen in the sense that they cannot reject the call to ministry. It addresses the heart of Predestination which states that it is NOT God's Will to save ALL men, but only to save a limited number. My point about murder was in response to the remark that since God wants everyone saved, He is a failure since not everyone is saved. My response is that we can find other contexts where the Will of God is revealed, yet His Will is not followed by man. It can be demonstrated in many different contexts, that God allows things to happen in violation of His sovereign Will. Therefore, the fact that God desires all men to be saved, yet not all are, is not a contradiction or an ill reflection on God. Yes, God's choice is part of His glorification. However, saving some while damning others does not bring Him "glory." God is glorified when people come to Jesus, which is why God desires ALL men to be saved. My view takes into account every relevant passage, though I have not listed all of them in this thread, or the other post of mine on this topic. I have only addressed a small part of what I have available. True, God is not obligated to save anyone, but that is not really the point. The point is that the Bible makes it clear that God is not leaving anyone without the opportunity. The Bible uses such phraseology in reference to Jesus as "the Savior of all men," (1 Tim. 4:10) "Light of the world" (John 8:12) in reference God's desire for all men to be saved. If God's desire is for Jesus to be the Savior of all men, and if he desires all men to be saved, then it is illogical to assert that God operates in violation of His own stated Will or desire. It amounts to God saying one thing and doing another. It makes God untrustworthy, and THAT is another reason why the doctrine of Predestination is an assault on God's character. God's sovereignty is not "limited" per se. My point is that God chooses not to act sovereignly where our decision to accept Christ is concerned. That can be demonstrated over and over again. For example, Paul presented the gospel to Agrippa, and in Acts 26:28, Agrippa's heart was moved, but he said "Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian." Paul had made a convincing case. Agrippa was a Jew, and knew the prophets. Had Agrippa not been moved upon by the Holy Spirit, Paul's words would not have had that kind of impact on Agrippa. I never said that it is out of God's control. Having the authority, and acting upon it are two different things. God does not enforce His Will over man regarding salvation, any more than he forces universal compliance to any of His commandments. Why would God employ absolute sovereignty in one aspect of His Will, and not every other part? Nowhere does the Bible teach a limited atonement, or that God desires only some people to be saved. As for those who have never heard? God has a plan for them. I have faith in God's character. He doesn't leave anyone out. I don't know HOW He will do it, but I can know from what is revealed in the Bible that God is fair, and just and will make sure than each person will have a choice. 1. No, the Bible does not teach that all unsaved hearts are predisposed to be hardened. That is is not biblical fact. Look at the multitudes who followed Jesus. The hardness fell upon some of the religious leaders. Jesus had both supporters and detractors. There were many unsaved people who followed Jesus throughout His ministry. 2. Salvation depends upon man making a decision when the Holy Spirit draws Him. I am not saying that we can choose Christ without the Holy Spirit leading. I am simply saying that it is unbiblical to say that the Holy Spirit will draw only some. The overwhelming testimony of Scripture says otherwise. 3. I do not deny free will after salvation. The book of Hebrews has four warnings against apostasy. There would be no reason for us to be warned about apostasy if it were not possible. 4. Pharaoh's heart was hardened even before Exodus 4. Pharaoh is not an example of predestination. The Bible does not say that Pharaoh was "predestined" to go the course he went. God used Pharaoh for His glory only AFTER Pharaoh would not repent. Well, heretofore, those who believe in predestination have not provided any Scripture for us to ignore, at least not from what I have seen. So far, all I have gotten is the canard that I am denying the sovereignty of God. Frankly I have provided ten times more Scripture than everyone else combined. Not only that but it is impossible to cover EVERY relevant passage in just one or two posts. So no one is "ignoring anything. Well, I am not trying to address, at this point, the mechanics of how a person is brought to that point. The first issue to be established is that God wants all men to be saved. Before we get into the mechanics of salvation for all, I must establish God's Will that all men be saved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shiloh, you have a way with words. I think the topic is being dug into so deep that our finite minds have a hard time comprehending God's glorious grace!

No, I don't think "HE" would, but not all of us are called to be preacher, or teachers. We have to find out what God wants us to do, what our talent is and use it for God. You, your good at making people feel better, you enjoy writing and your funny! Those seem to be your talents, and you use them well here! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Using the message board is a great fellowship tool and to reach unbelievers. But, we also have to be careful. like other things, not to use it to the point that it replaces our normal worship and fellowship time at church and local believers. I believe it can also can be used excessive to the point that some may consider it idolatry if the message board consumes one's life and not seeking God first. I hope I didn't offfend anyone, just stating with christian love. Just something to think about

Thanks Keith I think that sums it up and you answered quite eloquently. Thank you God for not being a dictactor but allowing CHOICE

Wanted to share this with you, I hope it's ok: NEIL ANDERSON'S DAILY IN CHRIST from Freedom in Christ Ministries GIVING IN TO THE SYSTEM And coming to Him as to a living stone, rejected by men, but choice and precious in the sight of God (1 Peter 2:4). "Pastor, I'm a loser," a high school boy told me dejectedly. He explained that he wanted to be a star football player, but had been cut from the team. Instead of being in the spotlight as an athlete, he had to settle for being a member of the pep band. And compared to star quarterbacks, clarinet players were losers at his school. The largest group of people today respond to rejection like this boy did: by simply giving in to the system. They continue their efforts to try to earn approval, but the inevitable rejection by others prompts them to believe that they really are unlovable and rejectable. The system says that the best, the strongest, the most beautiful, and the most talented are "in." Those who don't fit those categories--which includes most of us--are "out," and we succumb to society's false judgment of our worth. As a result, a large segment of the population is plagued by feelings of worthlessness, inferiority and self-condemnation. This person may have trouble relating to God. If he blames God for his state, it will be difficult to trust Him. "You made me a lowly clarinet player instead of a star quarterback," he complains. "If I trust You with other areas of my life, how do I know You won't make me a loser there too?" By giving in to the system's false judgment, this person can only look forward to more and more rejection. He has bought the lie and he even rejects himself. Therefore, any success or acceptance which comes his way will be questioned or doubted on the basis of what he already believes about himself. God has not equally distributed gifts, talents or intelligence, but He has equally distributed Himself. Our sense of worth comes from knowing who we are as children of God. "See how great a love the Father has bestowed upon us, that we should be called children of God; and such we are" (1 John 3:1). Heavenly Father, thank You for creating me the way You have and for making me Your child. I find my worth in You.