Karen C.

So please then, won't someone enlighten me and anyone else here. People just calling me "ignorant" and saying I don't understand doesn't really help me learn if I am really that much in the dark about things. Use PM if it's something that can't be posted publically then? here is what I posted; I feel that I need to post on behalf of those who have been tormented beyond what the regular church folks here can understand. There are some areas that your NORMAL church christianity fails to help! This christianity that is peddeled in the pews today is powerless in the face of those who have been assaulted by hierarchy demonic assignments. Maniac has been re- baptized and re-saved more times than anyone here can imagine. I am sure besessen has a similar testimony. I can cast out demons all day long from even some of the most tormented people. Even those little christian demons... But when you are dealing with the area of split, alters of survivors of SRA (satanic ritual abuse) or severe childhood abuse (sexual). There has to be biblical counseling to heal the wounded emotions and memories that are most of the time separate from the primary person that we see in the physical. There can be many alters present... all of them need healed and demons cast out. When you try to cast out demons from these people before they get reseated you more than likely cause more damage than help. I know from experience. D.I.D. http://www.rcm-usa.org/ look at web site for more info... What we don't understand is that this is a God given coping mechinism that occured during a time that probably would have killed them. Pain is still there but it is in a separate compartment... They don't know "why" they have the pain, but its real and they "hear" that cutting will make it better. Maybe this will help others get a better understanding of what is being addressed here. Blessings, Karen There is an area that requires insight and personal ministry to the wounded emotions before they can become whole... maniac is one of those... besessen probably is too. Your argueing with them only enforces the hopelessness that they already are dealing with 24/7. All the other little christian cliches only make them sick. They HAVE tried to get help... MANY TIMES with no results.. Only those with an understanding of DID and have a heart for compassion ministry can truly help them.. Blessings, Karen

We have bought into a lie... Not only those outside the church are suffering through this tragedy it is in full swing in the church.. The devil has tricked us into believing the RX are an answer. We have traded off Jesus for a counterfeit.. Since the church has failed to rise up and bring deliverance and teach responsibility for our thoughts and actions, we suffer the consequences.. Too much said??? DELIVERANCE is the answer not drugs... Legal or illegal sorry my soap box.. and calling area..

i never said you made anything up. didn't imply it. didn't say anything close to it. where did that come from? do you realize how many times you used the word "i" in your response? there are many, and that's my point. it's not about you and what you've gone through; it's about Christ. It was when you said I was "of show" which to me implied the 'making things up' since it sounds like you call me a showman (who by my understanding would be people who make things up for show) And anyway, I know it's all about Christ! It's stupidity to think otherwise. But you saying I use "I" too much in my response is a weak argument. How can I respond to you talking about me without me using "I" to reply? Especially when I'm referring to myself? I know it's all about God, believe me He gets all the glory, but I can't very well respond about myself using God's name in place of "I" can I? Anyway, I don't want to get into arguments here; I answered you in the other thread too. Luke~please read my previous post. Maniac is not one of those EASY cases. You do not understand this area of ministry.. No need to get offended by others in this area of ministry.. If you are called to help others .. reach those who you can and move on.. The Lord will move you into deeper ministry if you are called to go deeper.. Jesus said, "this kind comes out only by prayer and fasting".. Blessings, Karen

I feel that I need to post on behalf of those who have been tormented beyond what the regular church folks here can understand. There are some areas that your NORMAL church christianity fails to help! This christianity that is peddeled in the pews today is powerless in the face of those who have been assaulted by higharchy demonic assignments. Maniac has been re- baptized and re-saved more times than anyone here can imagine. I am sure besessen has a similar testimony. I can cast out demons all day long from even some of the most tormented people. Even those little christian demons... But when you are dealing with the area of split, alters of survivors of SRA (satanic ritual abuse) or severe childhood abuse (sexual). There has to be biblical counseling to heal the wounded emotions and memories that are most of the time separate from the primary person that we see in the physical. There can be many alters present... all of them need healed and demons cast out. When you try to cast out demons from these people before they get reseated you more than likely cause more damage than help. I know from experience. D.I.D. http://www.rcm-usa.org/ What we don't understand is that this is a God given coping mechinism that occured during a time that probably would have killed them. Pain is still there but it is in a separate compartment... They don't know "why" they have the pain, but its real and they "hear" that cutting will make it better. Maybe this will help others get a better understanding of what is being addressed here. Blessings, Karen

The Role of Women in Ministry Position Papers are official documents of the Church that have been approved by its General Presbytery. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Supernatural manifestations and gifts of the Holy Spirit have played a distinctive role in the origin, development, and growth of the Assemblies of God. From the earliest days of our organization, spiritual gifting has been evident in the ministries of many outstanding women. Divine enablement has also been seen in the spiritual leadership of women in other Pentecostal groups. The Pentecostal movement believes that the 20th-century outpouring of the Spirit is a true fulfillment of the scriptural prediction, "Your daughters shall prophecy... and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my Spirit" (Joel 2:28, 29). The Bible as Final Authority The history and current practice of the Assemblies of God give demonstration that God can and does bless the public ministry of women. Yet there is currently much debate concerning the proper role of women in spiritual leadership. So it is appropriate to ask if Scripture describes any limits to this public ministry. We all agree that Scripture must be our final authority in settling questions of faith and practice. But when born-again, Spirit-filled Christians, following proper hermeneutical principles, come to reasonable but differing interpretations, we do well not to become dogmatic in support of one position. We affirm the inerrancy and authority of Scripture. We desire to know for certain what God expects of us. When we come to a sure understanding of His divine Word, we are committed to declaring and obeying those clear instructions. But we also exercise caution in giving authoritative importance to interpretations that do not have indisputable support from the whole of Scripture. Although the Holy Spirit may be active in the work of translation and interpretation, we cannot claim inerrancy for interpretations (even of extant Hebrew or Greek texts). Historical and Global Precedent In the early days of most revivals, when spiritual fervor is high and the Lord's return is expected at any time, there is often a place for, and acceptance of, the anointed ministry of women. Over time, however, concerns about organization and lines of authority begin to emerge, and the group moves toward a more structured ministry. As institutional concerns come to the forefront, the spiritual leadership of women is accepted less readily, and church leadership becomes predominately male. The experience of the Assemblies of God has been no exception to this progression. Twentieth-century practice among Pentecostals around the world reveals evidence of a genuine struggle to apply biblical truth in various cultural contexts. In some settings, female spiritual leadership is readily accepted; in others, though women may have limited ministry, leadership posts are withheld from them. At times there is inconsistency between the leadership a female missionary has at home and that which she has on the field, or between her opportunities and those of a national female. Indeed, culture has influenced the extent of leadership a woman has been allowed to share. The Church must always be sensitive to cultural concerns, but it must look to Scripture for the truth that applies to all times and cultures. Biblical Examples of Women in Ministry Old Testament history includes accounts of strong female leadership. Miriam was a prophet, one of the triumvirate of leaders God sent to Israel during the Exodus period (Exodus 15:20). Deborah, as prophet and judge, led the army of the Lord into successful combat (Judges 4 to 5). Huldah, also a prophet, authenticated the scroll of the Law found in the temple and helped spark the great religious reform in the days of Josiah (2 Kings 22; 2 Chronicles 34). The New Testament also records ministering women in the Church Age. Tabitha (Dorcas) is called a disciple and had a ministry of helps (Acts 9:36). Philip had four virgin daughters who prophesied (Act s 21:8,9). Euodia and Syntyche were Paul's coworkers who shared in his struggle to spread the gospel (Philippians 4:2,3). Priscilla was another of Paul's exemplary "fellow workers in Christ Jesus" (Romans 16:3,4, NIV). In Romans 16, Paul greets a multitude of ministering persons, a large number of them women. Phoebe, a leader in the church at Cenchrea, was highly commended to the church at Rome by Paul (Romans 16:1,2). Unfortunately, biases of modern English translators have sometimes obscured Phoebe's position of leadership, calling her a "servant" or "helper", etc. Yet Phoebe was diakonos of the church at Cenchrea. Paul often used this term for a minister or leader of a congregation and applied it specifically to Jesus Christ, Tychicus, Epaphras, Timothy, and to his own ministry. Depending on the context, diakonos is usually translated "deacon" or "minister." Though some translators have chose n the word deaconess (because Phoebe was a woman), such a distinction is not in the original Greek. It seems likely that diakonos was the designation for an official leadership position in the Early Church. Junia was identified by Paul as an apostle (Romans 16:7). But many translators and scholars, unwilling to admit there could have been a female apostle, have since the 13th century masculinized her name to Junias. The biblical record shows that Paul was a strong advocate of women's ministry. The instances of women filling leadership roles in the Bible should be taken as a divinely approved pattern, not as exceptions to divine decrees. Even a limited 34-4191 of women with scripturally commended leadership roles should affirm that God does indeed call women to spiritual leadership. A Biblical Survey of the Role of Women in Ministry Of primary importance in defining the scriptural role of women in ministry is the biblical meaning of "ministry". Of Christ our great model, it was said, "For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many" (Mark 10:45). New Testament leadership, as modeled by Jesus, portrays the spiritual leader as a servant. The question of human authority is not of primary significance, though it naturally arises as organization and structure develop. Genesis 2:18-25 Some expositors have taught that all women should be subordinate to adult men because Eve was created after Adam to be his helper ("help meet", KJV). Yet the word ezer ("helper") is never used in the Hebrew Bible with a subordinate meaning. Seventeen out of the twenty times it is used, it refers to God as the helper. Instead of being created as a subordinate, Eve was created to be a "suitable" (kenegdo) helper, or one "corresponding to" Adam. Some argue that God created men and women with different characteristics and desires, and that these differences explain why leadership roles should be withheld from women. Others attribute these perceived differences to culture and social expectations imposed on children from birth to adulthood. Physical differences and distinctive biological functions are obvious; but it is only by implication that gender distinctives can be made to suggest leadership limitations. Paul's Emphasis on Charismatic Ministry Ministry in the New Testament is charismatic in nature. It is made possible and energized as the Holy Spirit sovereignly distributes spiritual gifts (charismata) to each member of the body of Christ (Romans 12:6-8; 1 Corinthians 12:7-11,27,28; Ephesians 4:7-12; 1 Peter 4:10,11). While some gifts are a spontaneous work of the Spirit and others are recognized ministry gifts to the Body, all are given for service without regard to gender differentiation. For example, the gift of prophecy is explicitly for both men and women: "Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy" (Acts 2:17). That women received and exercised this gift of the Spirit is well attested in the New Testament (Acts 21:9; 1 Corinthians 11:5). If Peter found certain statements by Paul hard to understand (2 Peter 3:16), then it is no surprise that we, who are removed by 1900 additional years of history, would share his struggle in interpreting some Pauline passages. And we, like Peter (2 Peter 3:15), must respect and love our brothers and sisters who hold alternative interpretations on issues that are not critical to our salvation or standing before God. We only request that those interpretations be expressed and practiced in love and consideration for all of God's children, both men and women. First Corinthians 11:3-12 The statement that "the man is the head of the woman" has for centuries been used to justify the practice of male superiority and to exclude women from spiritual leadership. Two alternative translations for kephale ("head"), debated widely by contemporary evangelical scholars, are (1) "authority over" and (2) "source" or "origin." Both meanings can be found in literature of Paul's time. Taking the passage as a whole, the second meaning fits as well as or better than the first meaning, leading to the summary statement of verse 12: "As the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things [are] of God." Even the relationship between the eternal Son and the Father--"the head of Christ is God" (11:3)--fits better as "source" than "authority over" (cf. John 8 :42). Without attempting to resolve this debate, we do not find sufficient evidence in kephale to deny leadership roles to women (in light of biblical examples of women in positions of spiritual authority, and in light of the whole counsel of Scripture). First Corinthians 14:34-36 There are only two passages in the entire New Testament which might seem to contain a prohibition against the ministry of women (1 Corinthians 14:34 and 1 Timothy 2:12). Since these must be placed along side Paul's other statements and practices, they can hardly be absolute, unequivocal prohibitions of the ministry of women. Instead, they seem to be teachings dealing with specific, local problems that needed correction. There are various interpretations of what Paul was limiting when he said, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak" (14:34). Options include (1) chatter in public services, (2) ecstatic disruptions, (3) certain authoritative ministries (such as judging prophecies), and (4) asking questions during the service. Yet, Paul does allow women to pray and prophesy in the corporate service (1 Corinthians 11:5). Although we may not solve all the difficulties of this chapter, we do conclude that this passage does not prohibit female leadership, but like the rest of the chapter, it admonishes that "all things be done decently and in order" (1 Corinthians 14:40). First Timothy 2:11-15 The meaning and application of Paul's statement, "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man" (1 Timothy 2:12), have puzzled interpreters and resulted in a variety of positions on the role of women in ministry and spiritual leadership. Is the prohibition of women teaching and exercising authority a universal truth, or was Paul reporting his application of divine truth for the society and Christian community to which he and Timothy ministered? From the above survey of passages on exemplary women in ministry, it is clear that Paul recognized the ministry of women. Yet there were some obvious problems concerning women in Ephesus. They were evidently given to immodest apparel and adornment (1 Timothy 2:9). The younger widows "learn to be idle,... and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not" (1 Timothy 5:13). In his second letter to Timothy, Paul warned against depraved persons (possibly including women) who manipulated "weak-willed", or "gullible", women (2 Timothy 3:6, NIV). A reading of the entire passage of 1 Timothy 2:9-15 strongly suggests that Paul was giving Timothy advice about dealing with some heretical teachings and practices involving women in the church at Ephesus. The heresy may have been so serious that he had to say about the Ephesian women, "I am not allowing women to teach or have authority over a man." But we know from other passages that such an exclusion was not normative in Paul's ministry. First Timothy 3:1-13 This entire passage has been held by some to confirm that all leaders and authorities in the Early Church were intended to be, and indeed were, males. It is true that the passage deals primarily with male leadership, most likely because of majority practice and expectations. When there were women leaders, like Phoebe, they would be expected to meet the same standards of character and behavior. Translations of verse 11 present evidence of the translator's choice based on personal expectations. The word gunaikas can be translated as either "wives" or "women," depending on the translator's assumptions concerning the context. One rendering leaves the impression that these are qualifications for deacons' wives; the other suggests this exhortation is addressed to female spiritual leaders. Although the first-century cultural milieu produced a primarily male church leadership, this passage along with other biblical evidence of female spiritual leadership (e.g., Acts 21:9; Romans 16:1-15 ; Philippians 4:2,3) demonstrates that female leadership was not prohibited, either for Paul's day or for today. Passages which imply that most leaders were male should not be made to say that women cannot be leaders. Galatians 3:28 Those who oppose allowing women to hold positions of spiritual leadership must place contextual limitations on Galatians 3:28. "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Some interpreters restrict the meaning of this triad to salvation by faith or oneness in Christ. That truth is certainly articulated throughout Scripture. Yet the verse carries a ring of universal application for all our relationships, not just an assurance that anyone can come to Christ. "Neither Jew nor Greek.... neither bond nor free... neither male nor female"--these are basic relationship principles to which faithful followers of Christ must give highest priority. The God of the Bible has "no respect of persons" (Romans 2:11; cf. also 2 Samuel 14:14; 2 Chronicles 19:7; Acts 10:34; Ephesians 6:9). He calls whom He will and gives gifts and ministries as He chooses; man must not put limitations on divine prerogatives. In Christ we are truly set free from sin and its curse, which separate from God and elevate or demean according to race, social standing, or gender. Therefore We Conclude After examining the various translations and interpretations of biblical passages relating to the role of women in the first-century church, and desiring to apply biblical principles to contemporary church practice, we conclude that we cannot find convincing evidence that the ministry of women is restricted according to some sacred or immutable principle. We are aware that the ministry and leadership of women are not accepted by some individuals, both within and outside the Christian community. We condemn all prejudice and self-promotion, by men or women. The existence in the secular world of bigotry against women cannot be denied. But there is no place for such an attitude in the body of Christ. We acknowledge that attitudes of secular society, based on long-standing practice and tradition, have influenced the application of biblical principles to local circumstances. We desire wisely to respect yet help redeem cultures which are at variance with Kingdom principles. Like Paul, we affirm the Great Commission takes priority over every other consideration. We must reach men and women for Christ, no matter what their cultural or ethnic customs may be. The message of redemption has been carried to remote parts of the world through the ministry of dedicated, Spirit-filled men and women. A believer's gifts and anointing should still today make a way for his or her ministry. The Pentecostal ministry is not a profession to which men or women merely aspire; it must always be a divine calling, confirmed by the Spirit with a special gifting. The Assemblies of God has been blessed and must continue to be blessed by the ministry of God's gifted and commissioned daughters. To the degree that we are convinced of our Pentecostal distinctives--that it is God who divinely calls and supernaturally anoints for ministry--we must continue to be open to the full use of women's gifts in ministry and spiritual leadership. As we look on the fields ripe for harvest, may we not be guilty of sending away any of the reapers God calls. Let us entrust to these women of God the sacred sickle, and with our sincerest blessings thrust them out into the whitened fields. This is where I stand.. Peace to you.. Pastor Karen

Shalom, The Scriptures are the authority and will of G-d, not denominations that violate them. It is an important issue in the Body today as many are disregarding Scripture to be PC. We should live by the Bible, not man's opinion. 1 Timothy 2: 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 1 Timothy 2: 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Timothy 2: 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. PLEASE~ 28

Shalom, The Scriptures are the authority and will of G-d, not denominations that violate them. It is an important issue in the Body today as many are disregarding Scripture to be PC. We should live by the Bible, not man's opinion. 1 Timothy 2: 11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 1 Timothy 2: 12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. 1 Timothy 2: 13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Corinthians 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. 35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church. 36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only? 37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. PLEASE~ 28

As a creditialed minister with the Assembly of God (& a WOMAN) and under authority of the denomination, I find this topic very tedious and unfruitful. If you are a woman and called to ministry and you are under a covering , you are fullfilling what the LORD has called you to do WHY does that bother so many on this message board? If the Lord finds them unfit HE will remove them.. He has managed His church so far with out our opinions! OT or NT~Those who are going to be lead astray will be lead, whether it be by a woman or a man. As I travel through out Oklahoma and I visit many AG churches.. Some are more welcoming that others. The message I bring about the ministry I am involved in is about the power of God to deliver and rescue from the utmost... I share the ALIVE message of what Jesus can do today. That the book of ACTS has not ended but the Lord is looking for willing PEOPLE to take up their cross and follow HIM.. Greater things... more than a scripture, it is a reality to those who seek HIM. MAN or WOMAN. Blessings, Pastor Karen Home Missionary

Kari~ I would be more than willing to answer any questions you might have about deliverance. (according to what I do know) That is the area of ministry that I am called into. If you havea true interest in this area of ministry and this is not just a whim of interest you can IM me with questions due to the negitive response that this subject stirs up. Karen

I would suggest a book by Derek Prince, "They Shall Expell Demons".

Good topic~ As for one who was raised an atheist, I can tell you I heard the promptings and obeyed the devious plans of demons most of my life. In 1995 I became a strung out meth addict. I heard voices all the time and seen demonic manifestations every day (Stephen King cannot get close to what I was LIVING) I was so desperate to find the truth of what I was seeing and hearing.. I would tell my druggie friends, "when I find the truth to what is happening I will come and tell you". No one seemed to know the truth. My boyfriends Mom was the only Christian I knew. I convinced him to ask her if she knew anything about what we were seeing and hearing. He came back with a "no". I figured that even god didn't know what I was going through. I was hopeless and suicidal. I overdosed many times and was always disappointed that I had woke up. I was driven to seclusion and I was at the place that I was dangerous not only to myself but to others. the voices had me paranoid and I was carrying weapons and the people that were targets I know now were innocent people whom the devil also wanted to destroy. When I was at the worst in my addiction I cried out to God to save me. I didn't think He heard me. He delivered me to jail in Dec '97 and by May of '98 I was new creation in Christ. Denoms had been cast out (really) and Jesus had become my Lord.. Yes, I know the voices. Blessings, Karen Credentialed Missionary Assembly of God

This is a lie right out of the Kenneth Hagin and Ken Copeland handbook!!!!!!!!!!! Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." Your making the same mistake that Jobs friends made. If the devil had a "legal right" to attack Job, he would have said it................and the big one that kills WOF doctrine is God said without reason. Hows that working for you??? Job got sifted just like Peter. Right after the discilples had their argument over "who was gonna be the greatest". The devil had a door, it was spiritual pride.. None of that on this board!!

This is a lie right out of the Kenneth Hagin and Ken Copeland handbook!!!!!!!!!!! Job 1:6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." 8 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." 9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." 12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. Job 2:3 Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." Your making the same mistake that Jobs friends made. If the devil had a "legal right" to attack Job, he would have said it................and the big one that kills WOF doctrine is God said without reason. Hows that working for you???

Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, [yet man] perceiveth it not. JOB obviously didn't head the warning... Job 33:15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed; Job 33:16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction, Job 33:17 That he may withdraw man [from his] purpose, and hide pride from man. Job 33:18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword. Job 36:8 And if [they be] bound in fetters, [and] be holden in cords of affliction; Job 36:9 Then he sheweth them their work, and their transgressions that they have exceeded. Job 36:10 He openeth also their ear to discipline, and commandeth that they return from iniquity. Job 36:11 If they obey and serve [him], they shall spend their days in prosperity, and their years in pleasures. Job 36:12 But if they obey not, they shall perish by the sword, and they shall die without knowledge. Job 36:13 But the hypocrites in heart heap up wrath: they cry not when he bindeth them. Job 36:14 They die in youth, and their life [is] among the unclean. Job 36:15 He delivereth the poor in his affliction, and openeth their ears in oppression. It seems that the Lord allowed this to happpen not because it was His divine plan but permissive will to keep Job from going down to the pit!! Elihu spoke the truth to Job.. He was the FOURTH man. If you read correctly the Lord was angry at the THREE friends but showed up AFTER the fourth one spoke up TRUTH for GOD.. You really might want to read it.. Blessings, Karen

Actually Job was upright and God offered up Job to Satan. In this Job was broken so he may recieve more. Job 42:12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: Satan was allowed to touch Job through God's allowance. Job said, Job 3:25 For the thing which I greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of is come unto me.

Sorry to stir yall up. BUT, Jesus IS strong enough.. Your protest makes no sense.. You read JOB w/o all your PRE conceived sermons about him... He gives us the FIRST parent enabler. trying to offer sacrifice for his kids while they are out having parties that are questionable!! (Parents weren't invited tells the story).. JoB had a fear issue and THAT was why satan could attack him.. Job said, "That thing I fear has come upon me". FEAR Lies and deception is behind that doctrine that christians can't have demons. You need to ask God.. Curses come and WE have power to be free. But like I said most of you on here don't even know when you are being effected by a demon so how can you CLAIM what you don't seem to need??

Curses are just as evident today in the body of Christ as they were during the times of Jesus. Curses are carried out by demons!! OH no.. you mean christians can have demons.. YES, see it all the time. Spirits of infirmity are a DEMON... a lot of mental oppression are demons, demons are usually behind accident prone people, reccurring sickness, a lot of female problems.... etc... it goes on. BUt because we don't think THINK the devil has a door we are sick and oppressed... Jesus came to become a curse for us, but we don't apply it.. Deut 28 explains blessings and curses.. James 2:8-12 goes on to explain how we bring ourselves out from under GRACE by breaking the law..(it is a heart condition that James is exposing here). Unrepentant law breaking has repercussions...ie, curses. Something as simple as showing favoritism.. The point being made is that Grace is not cheap... it has power when we use it to overcome the negative impact of the world. It gives us power to put off the works of the flesh that open doors for satans kingdom to afflict us through our mind, will and emotions. The general belief that the devil can't effect christians is only true about those who truly are listening and obeying the Word of God.. Disease is according to the Bible brought on by not listening to and obeying the Lord.. It opens the door to curses which are acted out by demons. It is a known medical fact that 70% (+) of ALL disease has a stress/fear root. What does the Word of God say about fear and worry?? So basically MOST sickness has been because WE have opened the door.. We just don't teach consequeses for excessive behavior and physically and MENTALLY we are reaping a harvest of sickness and disease. I would suggest that you pick up a book by Derek Prince, "They shall expell demons". It is one of the best (sound) teachings on the spiritual realm you will find. He also has a book "Blessings and curses". I hope some of this helps. Blessings, Karen

of course.. He healed my mind. I had abused it with drugs and was almost dead when Jesus saved me and delivered me. He can do the same for you. The man I had minister to last month had been in mental institutuion as a child. His family had him committed when he told them his psyciatrist was molesting him. Later he was called to testify against this Dr. in a lawsuit and he helped put the man in prison. The emotional damage had already been done. He went into heavy drug use (herion) and had been involved in astral projection and new age and a hung with the crowley group. Last year he died in the ER from the medication oxycontin (hillbilly herion) and came back to church. He had been attending the church where I have just recently moved to. He still had emotional issues, unable to get his mind clear, and just a lot of baggage. He came to me for ministry and the Lord did some amazing deliverance on him... he was truly set free... Tomorrrow it is his wifes turn.. SHe has had brain damage from a car wreck and she hears voices and has emotional ourbreaks with no control. SHe wants free and healed. I do believe Jesus will show up for her too... Amen?? Has that minister from up there contacted you yet?? Blessings, Karen

Just to see if anyone is reading... Praise report from a man I ministered to emotional healing and deliverance to last month; He has had HEP C since the 70's and his last test showed NO SIGNS of any HEP C and he was told his liver was fine!! Go GOD! Still healing and delivering!!! AMEN!!!

Here is the NT reference to OT where disease (plague) was brought upon the assembly in the desert for rising up against Moses. 1Cr 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 1Cr 10:2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 1Cr 10:3 They all ate the same spiritual food 1Cr 10:4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 1Cr 10:5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert. 1Cr 10:6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. EXAMPLE=meaning the same could happen to us? 1Cr 10:7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written:

Actually, it is combined info I have researched and applied it in ministry along with emotional healing and deliverance. I have witnessed healings along with deliverance thru these methods. Another book about spritual roots of disease is a book by Pastor Henry Wright, "A more excellent way". Blessings, Karen

I'm curious as to where the Bible says one cannot have these things and still be healed. I'm not doubting; I just want to know, as this subject confuses me a little bit. A good example is in the OT in Exodus.. Exd 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I [am] the LORD that healeth thee. Deut 28 explains blessings and curses.. James 2:8-12 goes on to explain how we bring ourselves out from under GRACE by breaking the law..(it is a heart condition that James is exposing here). Unrepentant law breaking has repercussions...ie, curses. Something as simple as showing favoritism.. The point being made is that Grace is not cheap... it has power when we use it to overcome the negative impact of the world. It gives us power to put off the works of the flesh that open doors for satans kingdom to afflict us through our mind, will and emotions. The general belief that the devil can't effect christians is only true about thosse who truly are listening and obeying the Word of God.. Disease is according to the Bible brought on by not listening to and obeying the Lord.. It opens the door to curses which are acted out by demons. It is a known medical fact that 70% (+) of ALL disease has a stress/fear root. What does the Word of God say about fear and worry?? So basically MOST sickness has been because WE have opened the door.. We just don't teach consequeses for excessive behavior and physically and MENTALLY we are reaping a harvest of sickness and disease. I would suggest that you pick up a book by Derek Prince, "They shall expell demons". It is one of the best (sound) teachings on the spiritual realm you will find. He also has a book "Blessings and curses". I hope some of this helps. Blessings, Karen

Amen, and in Brazil the same thing is happening. My pastor has been on several mission trips there and he personally met with a lady who's husband died from a stroke. He was proclaimed dead by the doctor who came to her house. Her family said that she had been praying over her husband's body for eleven hours. She told my pastor that she prayed another time at the end and life was restored to his body. He asked what she had done different during the last prayer...she said an inner voice told her to rebuke the spirit of death and so she began rebuking the spirit of death and life was restored. My pastor met with her husband, because of the stroke she had to teach him all over just like a child on how to eat, walk and so forth...he still couldn't speak. My pastor was preaching there in the town and both the lady and husband came, the interpreter told the husband that by the end of the sermon he would speak again. My pastor said we he was done the husband came forward and gave his testimony...he was speaking clearly again. My pastor said that was just one case and the missionary he works with there said it wasn't uncommon and happens quite often. Praise the Lord!! I do believe that the American better get ready for the move of the Holy Spirit. As I have been involved in emotional healing and deliverance I have seen the miracle manifestations are being increased. Outside the body of Christ the miracles are to bring those onto salvationa nd expose them to the Holy Spirits sanctifying power to keep them clean and in health. Those INSIDE the Church need emotional healing from their issues reguarding the un dealt with offences and life traumas that we have told them to sweep under the carpet and remember no more. It is those UNDEALT with offences and traumas that have power and are open doors for spirits of infirmities and emotional issues. Until the body starts receiving the healing (of the mind will and emotions, and then to the physical body) they are unable to be effective in the Commission of Mark 16:16-20. Antways, I have seen the ministry developing to reach those inside the church and it manifesting with power and healing and setting the captives free!! ISA 61 the message is a 4 part mesage and we try to go from the good news to being healed with out dealing with the brokenhearted or dealing with the demonic in opperation in the lives of believers. God will not overthow His Word and heal those who are walking in deception, sin, unforgivness..etc. Until they hear the truth and address thier issues they will stay sick.. Inside the church IS a different minisrty of the Holy Spirit than to those OUTSIDE. Inside we fall underneath the the word that all the promises of God are attached to IF You keep my commandments... Amen.. Blessings Bro, Karen

YES.. I do believe that God is still doing the miraculous.. It happens where God can show up. We don't need God here in America.. we have Doctors, Councelors, and all the comforts to make us Feel better.. Therefore we only see small miracles... if any. Sad.. I have been witness to miracles and healings and deliverances.. We should be seeing more miracles, if we really sold out to serving the Lord and not being merely "comfortably religious".

EX~ The Lord working through a humble minister and you call it "crazy evil"?? Since I know how you disagree with the miracles, signs and wonders I don't expect a agreeable answer. I will leave the correction up to the Lord on your case..