felix

Hello Connie, A true prophet after Christ's death and resurrection (the new testament) would not prophesy like "Thus saith the Lord". A true prophet may say that but there is no need to. And it is out of place. It is sort of like wearing boots and a sweater to a gym. Maybe it's not that out of place but it is simply something a true prophet would not naturally do. This is because the Spirit of God is already a part of us in our spirit. Our spirit and the Holy Spirit are one. Thus, the prophet prophesizes in his own words...not by speaking in the first person for God. In the Old Testament, the Spirit of God dwelt outside of man. So it was like coming from someone else. For instance if John told me "Repent from your sins!" as a message to propagate...I would say "Repent from your sins...thus saith John!" or "Repent from your sins...for the mouth of John has spoken!". John is outside of me so this is a naturally way for me to put it. But if we got the message "Repent from your sins" from within us (and this is the Holy Spirit), then it does not make much sense to say "thus saith the Lord". I forgot to add that dreams, visions, and physical experiences can be prophetic. The interpretations of these are prophesies for us as well.

The reason I asked the question above is because the prophets of today do not prophesy in that manner. In the Old Testament the Spirit of God had not yet dwelt in man...That is why prophesy occured in first person...as if you were speaking for the person. That was why they prophesied "Thus saith the Lord!". Now in the NT the Spirit of God dwells inside us; our spirit and His Spirit have become one. Therefore, it is very strange that one would prophesy in the manner as "thus saith the Lord" or "'My children, why have you forsaken me?' says the Lord". For the God has grafted himself into our life so when one should prophesy for the Lord, it is usually in their own words and personality. The word comes from within us; not from outside of us. When one prophesizes in this manner "'Return to me my children. I have great things awaiting you!' for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken." (first person) it is very questionable. Prophecy today is in summary speaking forth the Lord. It is usually in the form of timely messages and interpretation of scripture that would apply to us in the present situation. Prophesy does not add onto scripture but it uses it. Unless one is prophesying to an individual, a prophecy spoken without the concurrent use of scripture is very questionable. The Lord has already spoken to us through the Word. There are no new revelations that we can add onto the end times that has not been written in the book of Revelation. It is the Holy Spirit leading us and speaking to us. When someone shows how the scriptures applies to us and especially in the time we are in.....it is NOT a simple analogy or some rhetorical device. This is a prophecy. The Word of God is living and it is the sword of the Spirit.

Amen sister!

Hello sister, I believe that the Lord is training us. I've been thinking about the following illustration: a large dam that has been breached. The dam holds back a lot of water and when it is breached....it releases a powerful flow of water. However, after some time the flow of water eventually normalizes into a calm but moving stream. Sister, as long as you have your heart set on Christ the Holy Spirit has been moving in you. We can immediately touch the Spirit by just calling on the Name of the Lord. We just have to continue abiding in the Lord day by day...feeding on His word, unceasingly pray, and just surrendering to Him daily. The Lord use you powerfully.

Susan, did the speaker prophesy in the manner "Thus saith the Lord" or spoke for God in the first person (ie And the Lord spoke to me saying "Do not forsake me my children. I have seen your works....")?

Felix, I agree with the second part of your statement, but I respectfully disagree with the first part, at least part of it. Yes, I believe the judgment is locked in and on its course whether it be today or tomorrow or a month or two months from now. But, I believe we should still warn people that it is coming, not so that we can somehow stop it from coming, but so that people will know it is the Lord and that the purpose of the judgment is to bring his children to repentance. I agree. I just felt that the window to not have as severe judgement was closed. I agree that we should still tell people so they will know it is judgement on his children when it occurs. I also feel that because the adults are not moving in to judge the church that the younger and less-abled ones will. But, in the spirit of the Nicolaitanes, they will be persecuted or denounced by the older ones. What do you think about this?

I think the time for warning has passed. I feel that judgement is now locked in and on its course.

Kerdos and Tess, if you would still like to discuss this I would recommend that you PM me to keep this thread on topic. I know that man wants to appear justified in the light of others...but we truly only need to be justified in the light of God. For the record, I would like to say that I sought vindication here...perhaps my lastest post was not necessary for Jesus Christ but necessary for me. If you feel it would be better for you that I remove it then tell me and I will remove it. I will be in prayer.

I did answer your question... Which is more important? It is God first, Family second, and the Individual last. I do not see what you are objecting to...again..1)God 2)Family 3)Individual. God is paramount...which would mean if God commanded me to follow Him and in doing so I would have to deny the desires of my parents (ie where THEY want to LEAD me) or Family then that is wrong. If God prompts us (in this case Katie) to confront the pastor and our family disapproves then are we not disobeying God? Your thinking is very soulish and worldly, namely that she is still under eighteen and not an adult. When we speak for the Lord we are not doing anything for ourselves or our family, it's simply for God. Testimonies I know: There is a brother who serves the Church full-time. His life is wholly given to the Lord. Before he was called to do this he encountered resistance from his parents. His parents knew that he would be poor; his mother sought him in tears to not do this. Now his parents were both christians. But he obeyed God's calling and is now sheparding many children. There was a very mighty saint used by God. His name was Sundar Singh. His parents were Hinduist. Sundar found that Jesus was the only way, truth, and life. His father would not accept this. In this time Sundar would be cut off and exiled from the family if he did not convert back to their family's religion. Sundar made a choice; he cut off his hair. This was a denial of his religion. In front of his father and household, he declared that he was a servant of Christ. Sundar was no longer a son. That night Sundar slept on the hard ground in the cold. But he was so happy to belong to God. From that day forth he fulfilled his calling from God. In both these cases God's calling was above that of the family's. That is the point. It is not anything complicated. So I will leave it to that. Tess... John 1:12,13 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God. You say "Obeying them[parents] is being led by the Spirit." If I am led by the Spirit to preach the gospel and my parents who are not christian tell me not to...should I obey? There are many people in this situation, especially in places where christian persecution is public. Not just scripture but to the LEADING of the Holy Spirit. The point was not about disobeying parents...but being led by the Spirit. Katie's parents may not have commanded katie not to confront the pastor but it is their desire or wish that Katie does nothing. It is not in this negative connotation you are presenting "liberty to disobey". It is obediance to God first and living by the Spirit. You do not know that the parents are leading her contrary to God. You also do not know what the parents have instructed her to do. You therefore cannot make any conclusions on whether things are relevant or not. It will be between Katie and God. If you think this is misinterpreted, I do not have any objections to that. My advice for Katie is still the same: obey God first, obey parents second, obey your own desires last; follow the leading of the Holy Spirit and not that of your parents' or yourselves. However I do object to the fact that no one, who has disagreed with me, has shown me any scripture. These are just opinions born from the mind of man. If you disagree and explain why, then there is no transgression. However, when you disagree (or more accurately attack) through ad hominems, ad hocs, and plain opinions with NO scriptural support, then this is JUDGEMENT. Tess, you said "this was terrible advice and a misapplication of scripture...geeze". This is an ad hominem, an attack particular against me. For there is a difference when one says "I respectfully disagree" to "this is terrible advice!" And especially with no further support what so ever. You argument above is, in my opinion, ad hoc. This is all I will say here before this thread gets off topic. If you still do not agree and think I am in error then please PM me. If you see something wrong then I would like to be corrected. However, if your heart only seeks to spill out ad hominems and ad hocs then your efforts will be in vain.

Kerdo, you asked "What's more important; the individual or the family unit?" Importance is in this order... 1) God 2) Family 3) The Individual God is paramount, it is above all things. If you leave out God then you are denying everything. For in this way of thinking would Abraham have obeyed God's command to kill his only son Isaac? Abraham would not only be losing the son of which he waited so long for but would also be committing murder. God's command is therefore greater than what WE think is right. It is obediance to God first, not man. Tess: Please show me why this is terrible advice...that we follow God first and not our parents. Are you speaking against me because I have disagreed with you?

For the people who have doubts about "Christ becoming the Life-giving spirit". Just read 1 Corinthians 15:45 in all the translations you can find. Just some translations.... 1 Corinthians 15:45 (Amplified Bible) 45Thus it is written, The first man Adam became a living being (an individual personality); the last Adam (Christ) became a life-giving Spirit [restoring the dead to life].(A) 1 Corinthians 15:45 (American Standard Version) 45 So also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul. The last Adam became a life-giving spirit. 1 Corinthians 15:45 (New International Version) 45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"[a]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit I do not see anything wrong about "Christ becoming the life-giving Spirit". This is simply (if not exactly) quoting scripture.

Thank you sister Sue for being faithful to reveal what God has revealed to you. Revelation 3:19 Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and REPENT.

Colosians 4:6 Children, obey your parents in everything, for this pleases the Lord. I know that the Lord has given us our parents for a purpose. Usually what our parents command us and nag us about are weaknesses that we have. If we abide in Christ Jesus then our obediance to our parents will give us blessings on the earth. However, honor and obediance to parents has nothing to do with being led by them. Romans 8:14 "Because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God". We are led by the Spirit of God. If a child's parents are satanist should the child follow wherever they go?...this is being led by our parents. Of course not. Katie, you can speak directly to both your parents and the pastor. Remember that we should please God and not man. I would have to respectfully disagree with this... "In my opinion, it is not your place to forego your parents to confront the pastor. If your parents were in agreement and gave you permission, that would be another story. " Matthew 4:21-22 ....he [Jesus] saw two other brothers, James son of Zebedee and his brother John. There were in a boat with their father Zebedee, preparing their nets. Jesus called them, and IMMEDIATELY they left the boat and their father and FOLLOWED him. If the Lord prompts you to speak with your pastor, you should follow Him. Imagine if James and John didn't follow Christ but stayed with their father... They would have missed out on a lot.

Sister, God has already given you the grace and wisdom through His Holy Spirit. What you have just said is truly something revealed to you by God. The Lord calls us to obey His voice and not the voice of man. We should rather please God than please man. Honoring your parents is pleasing to God. But honoring them does not mean giving your spiritual life to them. The Holy Spirit will guide you...even if you are unclear about what to do in your mind. Believe that the Lord will provide you with the scriptures at the perfect time. Believe that He will give you the words to speak. The grace of the Lord is with us!

Christ became the life-giving Spirit upon resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Who was this last Adam? Jesus. John 14 17the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and WILL be in you. 18I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. Jesus said I will come to you. Would this not be the Holy Spirit? I do not see how the doctrine of the trinity would conflict with this as Jesus, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit are ONE.

Don't be afraid to go and confront your pastor directly. It does not matter how old we are...whether we are 10 or 100, God will work through us. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding. You do not need to know what to say or how to say it, when you are there trust that the Lord will speak through you. It is when we are absolutely incapable that the Lord's grace can work powerfully through us. This is because we cannot give any credit at all to ourselves; all the glory must go to God. I have gone through a similar situation the past week. At the end of the conversation you may feel that it went horribly but you should know that the Lord looks at our heart and sees what we do from within there and not what we do on the outside. It may seem that your pastor may not seriously take your word, but you should know that you have implanted a seed in your pastor. A tiny seed will eventually grow into a large tree. Simply obey the voice of the Lord; take courage and go into action. The Lord will not force you to do anything but he will make the arrangement for it to be possible. We must obey the Lord; not man. Prayers and grace will go before you.

I enjoy going to and visiting many "churches". I seize the opportunity to speak with the pastor or leader. I have gone to catholic, baptist, pentecostal, and other denominations. I hope to visit as many churches as I can in the future if God is willing. We should see that there is no distinction between all believers. God, when He looks at a city, He does not see First Baptist Church, United Methodist church, catholic, orthodox, pentecostal etc. He sees the church in Austin, Munich, Taipei...Corinth, Ephesia, Philadelphia...whatever the city name. Wherever we are and in whatever city, we should just call ourselves the church. We can have no other name. We cannot have the name of orthodox, catholic or protestant. Simply we are the Church in Christ.

Coming out of the MAN-MADE and RELIGIOUS church does not mean abandoning the gathering all together. A lone christian will surely wither away no matter how strong his faith is. "We are members one of another". A lone christian is cut off from the blood supply; they are cut off from the body of Christ which is a real spiritual reality. We are organically joined. If we cut off our finger it will die. We need to come out of the MAN-MADE church and into the real living church that worships in spirit and in truth. The church is not a building, WE make up the church. We, individually, are a temple of God. When we come together corportately we express God. "For whenever two or three have gathered in my Name, there I will be in their midst" We can have 'church' with just two or three gathered together! We need to come out of the man-made religious churches and into the full reality of the living church, the body of Christ. It is not an organization. It is not a system...neither is it individual...It is organic, corporate and universal. Universal means there is only one building. Jesus is coming back for the Church who is the bride of Christ. How can this be reality? The churches today with more than a hundred members sitting in one room all facing the pulpit will not work. Tithing 10% of your income will not work. Singing in the choir and particapting in the numerous other activities will not work either. It is when the believers have gathered together in the Name of the Lord with a pure heart. It is a place where the believers can openly share problems and openly pray for one another. Each one giving their portion: whether word of knowledge, word of encouragement, a testimony, prophecy, or hymn...these all must be done for the edifying of the church. In the man-made churches people just sit in the pews and hope for an entertaining sermon. When it is not entertaining they will sit it out...as long as they sit and pay attention this is the service they can do for God. No...the church is not just ONE man speaking and preaching...each and every member must function and there can be no hinderances to this. That is why there is death...that is why many people in the pews are experiencing death...their spirits are not functioning; they are not allowing their spirit to outflow the things from the Holy Spirit. The best place for this is therefore in the home where everyone feels comfortable to share...or at a table in a coffee shop. You can not do this in the sermon on sunday in the pews. We come to four things... First we have the Church - many members and the best place to meet would be a room that could fit 100+ people. Here the pastor has his sermon. This can be on Sunday or any day we choose as the Sabbath. Second we have home meetings (or smaller meetings) - a number of members (could be 2, 3 and up to maybe 40...whatever number of people could fit in the house) where the members could give each other their portion. These can be on all or any weekday. Third we have vital or personal relations - two members who are close and where all facades and walls covering up our true feelings, thoughts, and emotions can be dropped. These can (and should) be everyday! Fourth we have personal vitality - we are supplied from within and strengthened in spirit. We have life gushing from within. This takes us out of the lukewarm state. Our spirits can be thus fanned into flames. This is constant, every second and moment! It is not abandoning the gathering...it is coming out of the laity, the system and organization. For the Lord hates the work of the Nicolaitanes. We must come out of Egypt and walk out into the wilderness. Many Christians are still in Egypt. They may have had the blood of Christ cover them but they are still in bondage. For when the Israelites covered their doorposts with blood this represented our acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Saviour. However, there were many who wanted to return to Egypt...where they would be comfortable with food though still under bondage. We, the Church, are pure and holy. We, therefore, must be seperated from the world. The world is Egypt. Satan is the pharoah. Christ is coming back for HIS Church, His bride! Will we be the 5 foolish virgins who did not have extra oil in their vessels? Or will we be the 5 wise virgins who had extra oil when the bridegroom came?

Yes, "Come out of her my people!" Amen David. The people need to come out of the man-made church system and into the TRUE Church which is in Christ. This is the church that worships in spirit and in truth. The church of God are those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, the called saints, with all those who call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place..."(1 cor 1:2). The man-made and religious church is truly in Egypt...where everyone is comfortable and afraid to step out in faith to follow God! We are called to walk in the wilderness trusting God with all our heart...this is the true way to the land of Canaan - the GOOD land. For the leaders and people of the man-made churches and religioius system, Jesus is counseling you to buy from Him three things: Rev 3:18... "I counsel you to buy from Me..." 1) Gold refined by fire that you may be rich... This real gold is the proving of our faith (1 peter 1:7)...it is the living out of our faith NOT just knowing it. The people in the man-made churches just learn about their faith..they do not step out of Egypt, they do not step out in faith to follow the Lord. They want to remain comfortable...in their church buildings. 2) White garments that you may be clothed and that the shame of your nakedness may not be manifested... The people in these man-made churches including the pastor push their sins to the very back of their mind. They do not confess them; they hide them. But everything hidden will be manifested by the Light. We need white garments, garments that are not stained with sin and covering of the people's nakedness. Indeed, this is a great shame for even the loss are more righteous in their living than the people in the church. 3) Eyesalve to anoint your eyes that you may see. The church is blind. No one is seeing the spiritual death; no one is seeing the slaughter of the Lord's sheep; no one is seeing those who are in bondage. We must BUY these things from Jesus Christ. And buying something requires a price. Indeed, there is a great price to be payed for the rich man-made churches: The pastor -and congregation- will have to start giving his life fully to the Lord and not to his church building and ministry. He will have to acknowledge the sins of himself and the congregation. He will need to see the deathly condition of the church. The great preacher may lose his multi-million dollar church; he may lose the admiration of his 500+ church members; he may see that he was leading God's people to himself and not the Lord; he may see that he was the false prophet who says "every thing is going to be okay" when things are not -for the ONLY preach the love of God and forgiveness of sins. This is a great price but Jesus says, "He who overcomes, to him I will give to sit with Me on My throne..." (rev 3:21). Brothers and sisters, we need to hear with spiritual ears and see with spiritual eyes. "He who has an ear, let him hear what the spirit says to the churches" (rev 3:22). We all have ears! Let us read the scriptures prayfully. For it is the spiritual man who discerns all things (1 cor 2:15).

Yes. I can use some prayer for my studies. Also that I can carry out God's calling for me. Many are called but only a few are chosen. I would like to be the few that are chosen. I believe that God calls many people to work for him but only a few take heed of this calling. For me I'm not sure where I am.

Oh Lord Jesus, Forgive me that I do not love you more, forgive me that I do not spend more time with you, forgive me that I fail to abide by your Word. Lord, I do not want to be lukewarm. May I abide in you and you in me; may my spirit be fanned into flames. You are my one true love, my all in all and my central vision. Lord, may your words become my reality. Lord, revive me!

Praise the Lord! May the Lord continue to give you strength to suffer for His sake. If we share in Him with His sufferings, then we will also share in His glory. Will keep you in my prayers.

The longer that I'm a Christian - the LESS I look at others and the more I compare the scriptures' warnings to MYSELF and ME! Jesus warns people to stop trying to remove the speck out of a brother's eye and worry more about the log in our OWN eyes. Folks, I've been here since '02 and I've seen much criticism of others but let's be frank. Most of us here are NOT preachers and don't have a clue what preachers think since we're not them. All we can do is assume. And it's possible some folks preach for the wrong motives but WHO CARES? Pray for preachers who aren't doing right...or offer to help out. If that doesn't work, go elsewhere...but just be all that YOU can do. We need to look real hard at OURSELVES and not at others. When Judgement Day comes, God won't be asking my opinion about other people..... Sister, this message is not about judging anyone or anything. Again with the following illustration... A person shows signs of a cough, congestion, headache, fever, muscle aches, chills and a stuffy nose. These are symptoms of a COLD. Is this judgement if I recognize that this person has a cold? Is it judgement on my part that I say that these SYMPTOMS are signs of a COLD? Likewise, if a preacher shows signs of these symptoms then we should recognize that this is the Laodecian spirit. Is it judgement if we recognize that this is the Laodecian spirit? Is it judgement on my part that I say that these symptoms are signs of a Laodecian spirit? When someone has a cold we know that we should stay away from him as to not catch one ourselves. This is the exhortation of this message: to keep from becoming lukewarm! It is not for us to judge but to recognize; not to criticize but discern. This message is not intended to judge or criticize...but to warn.

Prophecy usually involves telling the things that will occur in the future, timely messages, and knowledge of the personal things in the lives of people. The word of knowledge on the other hand comes from study or things experienced by everyone. The knowledge of the personal things is different from the 'word of knowledge'. The 'word of knowledge' speaks of things that can apply to everyone whereas the prophet's word of knowledge is specific to the person's life. A psychic who tells the truth and honors God is most likely a prophet of God. Psychics know things from the spiritual realm. There are also false prophets...these can be people who are receiving prophecy from unclean spirits or who are prophesying out of themselves (making things up). To discern prophecy we have to see that it lines up with scripture. In discerning truth from deception, I believe that God is faithful to reveal it to us if we pray and open our bibles.